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Thread: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

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    Default Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    It's a Full-Court Press To Lure Fans to Fieldhouse

    May 10, 2008




    The Star's position: Pacers’ leadership team working hard to turn around troubled franchise.

    Herb Simon and Jim Morris want to deliver a message to Pacers fans: They get it.

    In a meeting this week with The Star's Editorial Board, Simon, the Pacers' co-owner and new CEO, and Morris, in charge of the franchise's business operations, acknowledged how far out of favor the team has fallen with the community.

    How bad is it? In a city and state filled with dedicated and knowledgeable basketball fans, the Pacers recorded the worst attendance in the NBA this season.

    Morris, who not long ago was fighting the effects of famine and natural disasters as director of the United Nations' World Food Program, is now battling to restore the tarnished image of a team that he considers an important part of Central Indiana's social and business fabric.

    The franchise's troubles began with the infamous Detroit brawl but have deepened in subsequent years as players became embroiled in several off-the-court scandals.

    It's not surprising then that Morris calls character a paramount consideration in rebuilding the team's roster, including through this year's draft. He noted that when focus groups have been asked to pick between a player with great skills but questionable behavior and one with lesser talent but sound character, the fans chose character.

    Not that winning isn't important in reconnecting with the community. After all, much of the good will the team built up with the city in seasons past grew out of the excitement generated by playoff battles with the Knicks, Bulls and Lakers.

    But fans want a team they can be proud of for excellence on and off the court. To reach that goal, Morris promises to increase the team's involvement in the community and to improve the franchise's support services for young players who must learn to cope with wealth, fame and a multitude of readily available temptations.

    As the team's co-owner, Simon has a personal and financial stake in turning around the franchise, which a few years ago was considered among the NBA's best. He hopes to see improvement on the court next season, but acknowledges that salary-cap constraints could require a three-year rebuilding process.

    Simon also wants fans to understand that another community institution -- the WNBA's Fever -- is entering a period critical to its future. The organization has assembled a championship-caliber roster. Ticket prices are low. Yet attendance must grow if the franchise is to finally break even. Simon's ability to continue writing off the Fever's financial losses is no doubt constrained by the Pacers' problems.

    Two teams. Two sets of challenges. And not much time for either to begin packing fans into the Fieldhouse.

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I didn't want this to slip between the cracks since this article showed up in the opinion section of Saturday's front page section.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Three years later . . . Herb gets it.

    Pretty exciting news.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    I'm pleased. This makes robertmto's question in the other current thread unnecessary. We don't need to choose between character and talent. We're going to get a team with both.

    We just need to reset the clock on our expectations and impatience. We need to forget that it is "three years later." This is Day One.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    umm, WRONG! the fans want a team who wins and has some semblance of a future. tinsley, shawne, and daniels are really the only three players on the team with "character issues", which is pretty good for one nba team. tinsley played in 39 games. so they're telling me that nobody showed up to the games because of shawne williams and marquis daniels? i find that VERY hard to believe. the real reason nobody showed up is because there is zero direction for this team and the ineptness of management...

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    If Herb wants Fever attendance to grow, maybe he shouldn't have let Dunn become the head coach.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Perhaps the Fever should go away and then the team can concentrate on the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Speaking of "resetting the clock"...

    The last negative headline involving the Indiana Pacers was:
    74 Days ago
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    tinsley, shawne, and daniels are really the only three players on the team with "character issues"
    David Harrison.


    Quote Originally Posted by croz24
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    tinsley played in 39 games. so they're telling me that nobody showed up to the games because of shawne williams and marquis daniels? i find that VERY hard to believe.
    You don't have to believe it. The people who aren't coming to the games any more also aren't following how many minutes Tinsley or any other player is playing. It doesn't matter how many minutes he plays: he (and the other bad citizens) are still on the team.
    Last edited by Putnam; 05-11-2008 at 04:11 PM.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    umm, WRONG! the fans want a team who wins and has some semblance of a future. tinsley, shawne, and daniels are really the only three players on the team with "character issues", which is pretty good for one nba team. tinsley played in 39 games. so they're telling me that nobody showed up to the games because of shawne williams and marquis daniels? i find that VERY hard to believe. the real reason nobody showed up is because there is zero direction for this team and the ineptness of management...
    If the team started at "0" on the scale of "problems or lack thereof", then this roster, while nothing to love, isn't really a problem. The problem with this roster, however, is that it exists at a time when the past 4 years have us somewhere on the negative side of the scale. If right now was as bad as it's recently been, there wouldn't be such an issue over it. But they're relics of a recent bigger problem, and until they're out it's like that era hasn't really ended.

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Took them long enough to figure out we had a problem.

    This rebuilding process is going to take a while, so some fans might have to brace themselves in.

    I expect this fall to be about the same as last year, just hopefully no Pacers in police reports.

    Maybe we'll get another lame slogan this fall:

    "One Goal: United: No Police Reports!"
    Last edited by Lord Helmet; 05-11-2008 at 04:27 PM.
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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    With all due respect to Mr. Simon, are we sure he 'gets it'? Bird's still in charge of the franchise and he cannot judge talent nor can he make intelligent trades. Rebuilding is not seen by this fan, at least, as a likely outcome now or three years from now. If Mr. Simon wants me to shell out another $12K for season tickets the next three years while he waits for the bad contracts to expire, then Mr. Simon will have to make me some kind of concession. He might wish to start by asking his customer service rep to call me because I haven't renewed for next season. Maybe TPTB aren't too worried about putting fans in the seats next year, after all. 'Getting it' must mean something different to billionaires.

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    umm, WRONG! the fans want a team who wins and has some semblance of a future. tinsley, shawne, and daniels are really the only three players on the team with "character issues", which is pretty good for one nba team. tinsley played in 39 games. so they're telling me that nobody showed up to the games because of shawne williams and marquis daniels? i find that VERY hard to believe. the real reason nobody showed up is because there is zero direction for this team and the ineptness of management...
    forget about Harrison?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    no, didn't forget about harrison...he's just that worthless...doesn't deserve a mention...

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    My question is, what exactly does Simon want the Star's editorial board to do?

    Reel in Kravitz?

    Not report when something negative happens?

    Not be critical of the Pacer's inaction for not making necessary changes?

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    Speaking of "resetting the clock"...

    The last negative headline involving the Indiana Pacers was:
    74 Days ago
    The article/thread title makes me wonder if Herb didn't also "suggest" that the Star get their act together regarding the intentional negative spin. Things have happened certainly, but as the Harrison story shows there are a lot of ways things can be handled. Still waiting on Daniels to be brought in for that alleged rape in his house.

    And even there it's not that it wasn't true, it's that one version takes the angle that Quis himself is part victim, that some criminal took action against one of his guests in his own home. And the other angle is "probably Quis friend attacking some lady". Honestly, does anyone at PD know if Quis was closer to the woman than the man? Did anyone even see that story having the angle that a friend of his was the victim?

    That's what I'm talking about. It was the same with Williams. It wasn't that his friend let this guy hang around or that some old buddy with a high intimidation factor (being a potential murder tends to bring that out) forced his way back into Shawne's life, it was that Williams himself was going out of his way to support violent criminals because he 100% supports that behavior.

    Same story, DRASTICALLY different skews. And I'm certain that ratings, readership and sensationalism never played into it. The Star has way too much integrity to allow that to go on.

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    I'm pleased. This makes robertmto's question in the other current thread unnecessary. We don't need to choose between character and talent. We're going to get a team with both.

    We just need to reset the clock on our expectations and impatience. We need to forget that it is "three years later." This is Day One.
    Now, finally another fan gets it! I've been saying for the last 2-yrs now that the Pacers' fanbase needs to lower their expectations, specifically concerning certain players, i.e., JO. I like him. I just don't think he's capable of doing the things most fans "expect" of him. Again, this isn't a knock on JO. You just have to look at things realistically. And realistically, JO's just not a "take over the game" type of player. He will net you between 12-18 ppg, 2-3 asst, 2 blks, appx 7-8 rbds even on a bad leg. But he'll never be a "game winner" type player in clutch-time. It's just not who he is nor should it be. That job should be reserved for out Guards/Wings not our Center/PF. But that's just my opinion...

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    The article/thread title makes me wonder if Herb didn't also "suggest" that the Star get their act together regarding the intentional negative spin. Things have happened certainly, but as the Harrison story shows there are a lot of ways things can be handled. Still waiting on Daniels to be brought in for that alleged rape in his house.

    And even there it's not that it wasn't true, it's that one version takes the angle that Quis himself is part victim, that some criminal took action against one of his guests in his own home. And the other angle is "probably Quis friend attacking some lady". Honestly, does anyone at PD know if Quis was closer to the woman than the man? Did anyone even see that story having the angle that a friend of his was the victim?

    That's what I'm talking about. It was the same with Williams. It wasn't that his friend let this guy hang around or that some old buddy with a high intimidation factor (being a potential murder tends to bring that out) forced his way back into Shawne's life, it was that Williams himself was going out of his way to support violent criminals because he 100% supports that behavior.

    Same story, DRASTICALLY different skews. And I'm certain that ratings, readership and sensationalism never played into it. The Star has way too much integrity to allow that to go on.
    Very good points, Seth.

    The same could be said about Harrison's tiraide after the Suns' game where he allegedly "destroyed" the locker room. Granted, the emotionally explosive event couldn't have taken place at the worse time for him coming off the heals of a suspension for drug use, but did any of the local (or national) reports ever get to the heart of the matter, i.e., why Harrison went off? Was it that calls seemed to be going only one way the entire game - against Harrison - even when he was doing the exact same things as the player he was guarding? Nobody talked to him nor reported what he viewed as biasness against him. All they wanted to report was either "another Pacer gone wild" or "David Harrison's in trouble again".

    Okay, so I'm splitting hairs somewhat, but my point is it's easy for the media to just focus on what sells the storyline. They just forget sometimes that a story often times has two sides. To this day we've never gotten the barebones facts as to what set David off so bad that day. Perhaps because most viewed the incident as David merely losing his temper again, or that he still hadn't grasped the nauaences of the game or could be as simple as he just wasn't treated fairly by the refs but any negative words against officiated would only have warrented a further reprimand by the league?

    One small story in the grand scheme of things, but it just goes to illustrate how even the local media was out to paint the Pacers in the worse possible light as often as they could whenever they could. I mean, I had to go outside the local media just to find a feel-good story about them last year.

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    The article/thread title makes me wonder if Herb didn't also "suggest" that the Star get their act together regarding the intentional negative spin. Things have happened certainly, but as the Harrison story shows there are a lot of ways things can be handled. Still waiting on Daniels to be brought in for that alleged rape in his house.

    And even there it's not that it wasn't true, it's that one version takes the angle that Quis himself is part victim, that some criminal took action against one of his guests in his own home. And the other angle is "probably Quis friend attacking some lady". Honestly, does anyone at PD know if Quis was closer to the woman than the man? Did anyone even see that story having the angle that a friend of his was the victim?

    That's what I'm talking about. It was the same with Williams. It wasn't that his friend let this guy hang around or that some old buddy with a high intimidation factor (being a potential murder tends to bring that out) forced his way back into Shawne's life, it was that Williams himself was going out of his way to support violent criminals because he 100% supports that behavior.

    Same story, DRASTICALLY different skews. And I'm certain that ratings, readership and sensationalism never played into it. The Star has way too much integrity to allow that to go on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kravitz on 5/7/08
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    It's not that I'm giving the Indianapolis Colts a break because they won a Super Bowl, or because they have earned a reputation for having high-character players.

    It's not that I'm going easy on a potentially troubling and ultimately devastating story involving a fan favorite.

    It's not that I'm going soft (on Marvin Harrison) because The Star is pro-Colts and anti-Pacers, although I can assure you there are a lot of folks at Pacers Sports & Entertainment who are wondering where the outrage is.
    I find it interesting that Kravitz had to explain himself on why he wasn't tossing Marvin Harrison under the bus. I guess this is a far cry from RTV6 running an on-line pole on whether Jamaal Tinsley should have been "disciplined" by the team after being nearly murdered in the street.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Ever since the brawl the Pacers players have been under a microscope. Do you think the Pacers players have gotten into THAT much more trouble than the players in other cities get away with? Not hardly. Players can get away with a lot more in New York, Miami, Oakland, LA, where there are more pressing needs of the police departments in those cities. I am sure the Indy police department is under a microscope too. Plus, other stories drown out what other teams' players do because the media has bigger and better stories than a basketball player failing a drug test.

    I am not making excuses for our players by any means, but to say that these things don't happen to other teams is ridiculous. Our organization thinks there is a problem with our players' actions and there is. We the fans, and especially the media just make a much bigger deal out of it, because its the same Pacers players that got in the brawl. The organization is frustrated with other problems, such as injuries, poor attendance, and NOT WINNING, and we make off-the court issues a primary objective in the outlook of our franchise. So, we need to change the culture, and in that, we mean until we start winning with a new generation of players, nobody on our roster will get the benefit of the doubt.

    I like Shawne Williams and understand a lot of where he came from. He is a young man who has learned the hard way just like a lot of people in this world. I think he has a tremendous future in the NBA if he can understand that a big component of growing up is understanding who brings you down as a human being and who does not. Its about surrounding yourself with decent people to make your life better and more rewarding. Get rid of the drug dealing, gun-toting step-cousins who are riding your coat tails. They will only bring you down with their sinking ship. I.E. Dude hiding out in your house when you are on a road trip because he just killed somebody. I highly doubt Shawne knew about the murder until everything went down.

    I think Mr. Simon's idea about harvesting a culture of being decent and professional basketball players is righteous and I believe that can be attained with a more hands on development program for many of these young men who are coming into this league at 19-23 years old. We can never understand the temptation that these guys have with the amount of money and fame they are all of a sudden are given. There is so much to take them away from the game and there needs to be a more disciplined approach (by management) in making clear to these young players what their expectations are and helping them attain that in any way possible. There seems to be a disconnect between management and the players on this team. I think it starts with the fact that there are not quality veterans on this team that lead by example.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    PG2,

    The very issues you highlight are reasons David Stern imposed an age limit on players coming into the NBA through the draft. Maturing is what he was striving for along with more rounded players. I'm actually one of the few people who agree with the age limit and don't see it as a black or white thing but rather as a way to bring a better product onto the floor. Of course, there's no guarantee that a 2-4 yr college player will be of better stock than a HSG or a player who declares himself eligible after 1 yr of college, but you stand a better chance of getting a more well rounded player after 2-4 yrs college than you do from those who come into the NBA otherwise. As I've said before, there are only so many Kobe Bryant's and LeBron James' out there who would actually be able to keep their head on straight after turning pro.

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Who's on the Star's editorial board? Anybody know?
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

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    Enjoy your time at PD!

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Who's on the Star's editorial board?


    is their mascot.

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    The Star's position: Pacers’ leadership team working hard to turn around troubled franchise.

    Herb Simon and Jim Morris want to deliver a message to Pacers fans: They get it.

    In a meeting this week with The Star's Editorial Board, Simon, the Pacers' co-owner and new CEO, and Morris, in charge of the franchise's business operations, acknowledged how far out of favor the team has fallen with the community.

    How bad is it? In a city and state filled with dedicated and knowledgeable basketball fans, the Pacers recorded the worst attendance in the NBA this season.

    Morris, who not long ago was fighting the effects of famine and natural disasters as director of the United Nations' World Food Program, is now battling to restore the tarnished image of a team that he considers an important part of Central Indiana's social and business fabric.

    The franchise's troubles began with the infamous Detroit brawl but have deepened in subsequent years as players became embroiled in several off-the-court scandals.

    It's not surprising then that Morris calls character a paramount consideration in rebuilding the team's roster, including through this year's draft. He noted that when focus groups have been asked to pick between a player with great skills but questionable behavior and one with lesser talent but sound character, the fans chose character.

    Not that winning isn't important in reconnecting with the community. After all, much of the good will the team built up with the city in seasons past grew out of the excitement generated by playoff battles with the Knicks, Bulls and Lakers.

    But fans want a team they can be proud of for excellence on and off the court. To reach that goal, Morris promises to increase the team's involvement in the community and to improve the franchise's support services for young players who must learn to cope with wealth, fame and a multitude of readily available temptations.

    As the team's co-owner, Simon has a personal and financial stake in turning around the franchise, which a few years ago was considered among the NBA's best. He hopes to see improvement on the court next season, but acknowledges that salary-cap constraints could require a three-year rebuilding process.

    Simon also wants fans to understand that another community institution -- the WNBA's Fever -- is entering a period critical to its future. The organization has assembled a championship-caliber roster. Ticket prices are low. Yet attendance must grow if the franchise is to finally break even. Simon's ability to continue writing off the Fever's financial losses is no doubt constrained by the Pacers' problems.

    Two teams. Two sets of challenges. And not much time for either to begin packing fans into the Fieldhouse.

    .................................................. .................................................. ..

    I can not tell you how much I totally disagree with this highlighted part.

    The entire reason our franchise got into the shape it is in is because management did not face up to the fact that our house was not in order at least two full years before the brawl.

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    The entire reason our franchise got into the shape it is in is because management did not face up to the fact that our house was not in order at least two full years before the brawl.

    I think I know the reasons, Peck, but would you elaborate on this?

    Are you saying both sides of the trouble, both the high-salary, low-talent player situation and the cause of the current low support, predate the brawl?
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Default Re: Herb Simon with the Star's editorial board

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    The entire reason our franchise got into the shape it is in is because management did not face up to the fact that our house was not in order at least two full years before the brawl.
    Umm... wow.

    I know it is fashionable to dismiss the 61-win season as purely a fluke, a chance combination of luck and our opponents rolling over to lull us into a false sense of self-confidence, but do people really forget that the start of the season the brawl year was one of the best in franchise history?

    I say again and will continue to say that keeping the ticking time bomb for a shot at a championship was EXACTLY the kind of risk people had been begging this franchise to take. It's only when it blew up in their face that suddenly we'd have been better off going safe by getting rid of such talented but unstable players.

    Yeah, yeah, we can go back and re-hash letting Brad go and other moves or missed moves, but until the brawl it actually looked like it might work.
    BillS

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