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Thread: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Hmmmm.....

    It say's nothing about videotaping.

    Hmmm.....

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    I remember back when we were saying that this was all limited solely to the Jets game... eesh.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Hmmmm.....

    It say's nothing about videotaping.

    Hmmm.....
    I never said anything about video taping did I? Glad you changed up your repertoire of trolling from faces to 'Hmm..'

    Stealing signals is stealing signals. It's alright though, I bet you are still upset that the report about the Pats taping the Rams walk through isn't true so I'll give you a break.

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    I never said anything about video taping did I? Glad you changed up your repertoire of trolling from faces to 'Hmm..'

    Stealing signals is stealing signals. It's alright though, I bet you are still upset that the report about the Pats taping the Rams walk through isn't true so I'll give you a break.
    Stealing signals without the use of video equipment is not cheating. There is no scandal. It might be against the unwritten rules of conduct, but again, it's not cheating.

    Read my stance about the walkthrough tape, before you make a statement about it, because it's completely off base.

    I'm trolling? You post stories about stealing signals, in a way that isn't against the rules, and I'm trolling? I only went to 'hmm' because that's how you started off your post.

    No, you didn't say anything about videotaping, but you were trying to make the connection that all teams do it, to make another excuse for BB getting caught cheating. When another team is found to be breaking the rules, then post it, but don't post something that's completely within the rules.

    I've just had it with the constant justification by Pat fans. Whether it's a 'misintrepretation' or the excuse that everyone else is doing it. Again, you might as well be a Barry Bonds fan saying that him using steroids is legit and excuseable as well.

    There is absolutely no point to your post, but yet I'm the troll.
    Last edited by Since86; 05-15-2008 at 01:44 PM.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Stealing signals without the use of video equipment is not cheating. There is no scandal. It might be against the unwritten rules of conduct, but again, it's not cheating.

    Read my stance about the walkthrough tape, before you make a statement about it, because it's completely off base.

    I'm trolling? You post stories about stealing signals, in a way that isn't against the rules, and I'm trolling? I only went to 'hmm' because that's how you started off your post.

    No, you didn't say anything about videotaping, but you were trying to make the connection that all teams do it, to make another excuse for BB getting caught cheating. When another team is found to be breaking the rules, then post it, but don't post something that's completely within the rules.

    I've just had it with the constant justification by Pat fans. Whether it's a 'misintrepretation' or the excuse that everyone else is doing it. Again, you might as well be a Barry Bonds fan saying that him using steroids is legit and excuseable as well.

    There is absolutely no point to your post, but yet I'm the troll.
    No point to that post? I found it interesting and relevant to this thread. Stealing signals without using videotapes may not be against the official rules, but it is almost the EXACT same thing. It is completely relevant to this thread and to think otherwise is absolutely absurd. I wasn't trying to excuse what BB did because I acknowledged that was wrong back when it first happened. I just find it hilarious how quick you are to dismiss another team stealing signals without the use of videotapes. And do not put words in my mouth..I never once tried to justify what the Pats did by saying that other teams did it. I called you a troll because saying Hmmm...before and after what you said was unnecessary..you could have simply stated what was in between. Again, I never attempted to justify what BB did..it was cheating. I don't know how many more times you want me to say that.

    With that said, I am done here. Spygate is over unless further evidence is put forth by Walsh or whoever else. If you don't think stealing signals without the use of a camera isn't almost the same thing as stealing them with a camera, then that is your own opinion. As always, we will agree to disagree. You wont change my mind and I know damn well I wont change yours.
    Last edited by Moses; 05-15-2008 at 02:29 PM.

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    No, it's not my opinion. Stealing signals isn't against the rules. Using video equipment is. That's the difference.

    I have not posted my personal opinion on the matter, I have posted what is and what isn't within the rules. Find a rule that say's stealing signals by any means is prohibited, then you have a point, until then you don't have squat.

    I'm not debating the morality of the issue, I'm debating what's allowed by rules. I have no personal opinion on stealing signals in a completely legit manner. It might be the unclassy thing to do, but it's allowed.

    It's not cheating because every team can do it, and not have to worry about punishment. It's not cheating if it's not against the rules, and therefore it's in no way shape or form the EXACT same thing.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    No, it's not my opinion. Stealing signals isn't against the rules. Using video equipment is. That's the difference.

    I have not posted my personal opinion on the matter, I have posted what is and what isn't within the rules. Find a rule that say's stealing signals by any means is prohibited, then you have a point, until then you don't have squat.

    I'm not debating the morality of the issue, I'm debating what's allowed by rules. I have no personal opinion on stealing signals in a completely legit manner. It might be the unclassy thing to do, but it's allowed.

    It's not cheating because every team can do it, and not have to worry about punishment. It's not cheating if it's not against the rules, and therefore it's in no way shape or form the EXACT same thing.
    This is the central point where our opinions differ. I respect your opinion but disagree. Do you not consider athletes who juiced before it was against the rules to be cheaters?

    The only difference between the two is that one uses a camera while the other uses people. So videotaping vs sitting up in the team booth with binoculars watching the sideline for signals they recognize. It really is close to the same thing in my mind. I understand that one is not against the written rules, but it really ought to be if videotaping is. They are both using different means to get to the same end. Again, I understand it is allowed, but I am asking you for your opinion..should it really be allowed? This is a forum after all..we aren't here to talk specifically about the rules..we are here to speak our minds as well.
    Last edited by Moses; 05-15-2008 at 03:02 PM.

  8. #58

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    This comment from Walsh in the NY Times interview pubished today seems to indicate the relatively low importance of the sideline videos:



    It was the kind of situation that, being the third video guy, there wasn’t anything else I necessarily needed to shoot, especially for home games. So it was said, “Go ahead and shoot the signals.”

    maybe these were his orders:

    OK, Matt... that is your name right? Charlie there is shooting the "all-22 shot" of game tape, you know, from a distance to see everyone. Jimmy has the tight shots of our line blocking. What can you do? I guess you could go home and mow my yard.

    Wait... if you really want to stay you can do sideline tapes and cheerleader cheesecake shots.

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood View Post
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    I remember back when we were saying that this was all limited solely to the Jets game... eesh.
    And there's no proof saying otherwise, you guys are just bitter Colt fans...

  10. #60

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    props for your new web site, guys!

    http://www.tinfoilonmyhead.com/

  11. #61

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You might as well be a Barry Bonds fan saying that him using steroids is legit and excuseable as well.
    Backing someone taking substances specifically banned by the Federal government, whose distribution, possession, and use are all FELONIES, and lying about them under oath to a Federal Grand jury (another FELONY) and continuing to deny any responsibility at all for is own actions,

    is somehow equivalent to believing that the last six words of the taping law might be misinterpreted to mean "don't use tape within a game to help you make adjustments?"

    OK...
    Hmmm...


    The six words of the NFL taping law that were misinterpreted are BOLDED, to help you out:
    "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."
    I realize there was a follow-up memo, and if you are interested in the exact language of all the laws, memo, etc. you can read them and see all the direct links here: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-...ad.php?t=82481

    BB explained the misinterpretation. You can accept it or not, and many do not. Even most Patriots fans suspect that he knew that he was operating in the gray area, being in his mind within the letter of the law but certainly not within the spirit and the intent of the law.

    Unlike you, apparently, I don't equate his "crime" to Barry Bonds knowingly committing actual felonies, never admitting his guilt, and lying about his criminal behavior under oath before a Federal Grand Jury.

    As a violation, this is just a bit below the level of the general managers of the Bronchos and 49ers being busted for circumventing salary cap rules. You can guarantee there was absolutely no misinterpretation there, and there was a direct benefit: extra monies freed up to add players to a team that could not possibly be there otherwise.

    Belichick deserved his harsh punishment back in September when he admitted to taping from 2000-2007, and everyone in the NFL seemed to accept his & Robert Kraft's more detailed apologies in the Spring 2008 NFL owners meeting. Now it is over and some people need to let it go and stop exaggerating the seriousness of his offense and pretending that taping defensive signals was at the very core of establishing a 7-year dynasty and he somehow "got off easy" after this long painful public humiliation.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 05-16-2008 at 09:48 AM.

  12. #62
    Fear my small avatar Gyron's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Why do I keep opening this thread?

    Here is what every conversation has said since it was announced:

    Pats Fans: They didn't do it.
    All other NFL Fans: Yes they did, they should burn in hell.
    Pats Fans: Oh, well I guess they did it, but they don't deserve that big of a punishment because they misunderstood the rules, and besides we will own everyone without the tapes anyways...
    All Other NFL Fans: BAN BILICHEAT!
    Pats Fans: The punishment was excessive, but ok, we'll take it, I mean we have another 1st round draft pick anyway.
    All other NFL Fans: THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT WITH A SLAP ON THE WRIST!
    Pats Fans: HAHA, We Roolz u, 18-0, We SMASH Giantz...
    (Story comes out)
    Pats Fans: ITS ALL LIES! We've already been punished, drop it, we still Roolz alls u's.
    All Other NFL fans: SEE WE TOLD YOU THEY WERE CHEATERS! BAN BILICHEAT!
    Pats Fans: DAMN, GIANTS KIX ***! SUXXOR!
    All other NFL fans: YES!!!! ROXXOR! GIANTS ROOLZ!
    Skip ahead 3 months of Matt Walsh and Attorney not wanting to get steam rolled by NFL attorney's.....
    Matt Walsh: I video taped Cheerleaders and Signals. Oh, and they cheated with IR list, etc.
    Goodell: ROXXOR, I will not punish Pats for same stuffs.
    ALL Other NFL fans: Pats still SUXXOR AND STILL CHEATERS! BAN BILICHEAT!
    Pats Fans: See, we ROXXOR and we will ROOLZ YOU FOR ANOTHER DECADE, WE ARE THE MOST DOMINANT TEAM OF ALL TIME!
    All other NFL Fans: YOU WILL ALWAYS BE CHEATERS!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!
    Pats Fans: NO we won't.
    All other NFL fans: YES You will!

  13. #63

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    And there's no proof saying otherwise, you guys are just bitter Colt fans...



    Yeah that's it we're bitter... I mean never mind there are tapes dating back to 2000 that clearly show the Patriots stealing other teams signals even though they claimed it was a one time thing.


    I mean we're just making that up right cuz we're bitter? Sure... and denial is a river in Egypt.


    And I really don't care about Spygate I would prefer it to just go away because I really doubt the Patriots are alone in this. Just dumb enough to get caught.

  14. #64
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    This is the central point where our opinions differ. I respect your opinion but disagree. Do you not consider athletes who juiced before it was against the rules to be cheaters?

    The only difference between the two is that one uses a camera while the other uses people. So videotaping vs sitting up in the team booth with binoculars watching the sideline for signals they recognize. It really is close to the same thing in my mind. I understand that one is not against the written rules, but it really ought to be if videotaping is. They are both using different means to get to the same end. Again, I understand it is allowed, but I am asking you for your opinion..should it really be allowed? This is a forum after all..we aren't here to talk specifically about the rules..we are here to speak our minds as well.
    I'm stating the rules of what is and isn't allowed. If it's within the rules, it's fair game, as far as the league is concerned.

    Whether you agree or disagree with the rules is a moot point.

    To compare it back to Bonds, it would be like digging up a quote from another player who's talking about taking creatine. Steroids are banned, but creatine is allowed while both are performance enhancers.

    As long as the league allows it then it's fair game. Once it's against the rule's then it's cheating.

    As far as my personal opinion, I'm torn on the issue whether or not it should be allowed.

    On one hand I think it's fine because it's open to human interpretation at that very instant. You can't rewind the tape and see it again, to make sure you got it perfectly right. It would also be impossible to regulate. I think that's the biggest reason why it's not against the rules, and I think that's exactly why they're putting mics in defensive players helmets now.

    Which brings me to the other side.

    I'm against it because I think sports should be pure. I think the best thing about sports is the chess match between teams, using instinct and experience to react to what is happening. When you know what's coming, you don't have to react as much because it's like running a play in practice. You know what defense their going to run before you snap the ball, you know exactly where the soft spots are to exploit.

    I understand why it's not against the rules, but I would rather see it banned as well. But again, it really doesn't matter at this moment because it is within the rules. I may not like it, or agree with it, but teams have every opportunity to steal signals if they don't tape them.

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    PT, there is no perfect comparison to the situation. Find me a better one and I'll use it, but for right now can you take the actual federal law side out of it. Right now we're talking about what is and isn't allowed by the league, not laws.

    As far as the 'misinterpretation,' no one believes it but you. Since you want to dig up Walsh quotes, maybe you can find the one where he says that he knows BB knew exactly that it was against the rules because of the lengths they had to go to, to keep from getting caught.

    If a team can kick the guys who are doing it out of the stadium, then you know you're not allowed to be doing what you're doing.

    When that lame *** excuse came out, you actually said you didn't buy it.

  16. #66

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    PT, there is no perfect comparison to the situation. Find me a better one and I'll use it.
    I already did-- the fines and draft picks taken from the Bronchos and 49ers for knowingly circumventing the salary cap and hiding millions in payroll to beef up their rosters and win NFL championships.

    Both offenses are significantly worse than Belichick's, but it is as close as I can come. I also bet that without Google, nobody can name the 49ers and Brochos GMs who were punished (I can't either).

    It seems to me that if you are trying Bill Belichick for crimes against humanity, then you must also hold them in a similar position.

    Pats Fans: They didn't do it.

    ...they don't deserve that big of a punishment because they misunderstood the rules

    The punishment was excessive

    HAHA, We Roolz u, 18-0, We SMASH Giantz...
    These are all statements that I have never made (Moses either) and in fact I don't know anyone who would agree with any one of those statements, ever.


    ITS ALL LIES! We've already been punished, drop it
    If by "all" you are referring to the Super Bowl week controversy swirling around an alleged Rams walk-through tape ("spygate II"), then that characterization of my opinion is entirely accurate. If by 'all" you are referring to sideline taping of hand signals, then you are wrong since that has never been denied.

    The fact that "spygate II" is all lies has also been verified, by no less by the person who fabricated the story, John Tomase of the Boston Herald (some highlights of his article below):

    I could not have been more wrong. I regret it, and that’s something I’m going to have to live with for the rest of my life. There was no tape made of the walkthrough...

    On Feb. 2, I let you all down. Today I hope to begin the long road back...

    (addendum)I must apologize to the Patriots in general and the Kraft family in particular. My story contributed to much of the heat the organization has taken over the last three months, and my hope is that the message of their exoneration eventually receives the same attention as the presumption of their guilt.

    Secondly, I owe an apology to head coach Bill Belichick, his staff, and every player from that 2001 team and the two more Super Bowl champs since. They did not deserve to have their accomplishments falsely called into question, and I plan to apologize in person to as many of them as I can.

    Thirdly, I owe an apology to Patriots fans, over 1,000 of whom have e-mailed since Feb. 2 to express their displeasure at the story’s timing and content. I recognize the pall that story cast over Super Bowl Sunday and it’s something I regret deeply.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 05-16-2008 at 03:08 PM.

  17. #67
    Fear my small avatar Gyron's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Its funny, I make a joke, and purposely over exagerate the statements and you still find the need to argue the statements that were clearly in jest.....

    I'm nominating you for most argumentative next year. You're arguing with a JOKE......

  18. #68

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Sorry Gyron.

    I could see it as serious if one were to presume as genuine some of the "Patriots fans" who used to post at the old Indy Star forum. I'm talking about multiple people who took just crazy over-the-top pro-Patriot stances, intended to get everyone riled up, and then logged in on their main Colts ID (same IP addy) to argue with what they themseleves had posted posing as a fake Patriots fan.

    ----
    this is interesting though:

    Jim Nance: this was a media feeding frenzy based upon a huge lie, and it may have been the X-factor that changed the outcome of the Super Bowl (aside: I'm not sure I'd go that far, frankly, but who knows?).

    He then goes on the compare the irresponsible media to the same type of lie-fueled feeding frenzy seen in the Duke LaCrosse case.

    http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80855f35

  19. #69

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    "I made a mistake," Belichick said. "I was wrong. I was wrong."

    During Walsh's entire time with the team, Belichick said he operated under the belief that the NFL's bible - its constitution and bylaws - allowed taping as long as it wasn't used to aid a team during the playing of a game.

    He says Walsh was instructed to shoot the game, including hand signals, in plain sight, wearing Patriots gear. And he provided the video to the league - and CBS News - as evidence.

    "Why would Matt Walsh say he was told by his superiors to avoid detection, not wear Patriots clothing, and to lie about what he was shooting?" Keteyian asked Belichick.

    "I never told anybody to do that," Belichick said. "All I can tell you is what the facts are. You look at the tape. You see him filming the game. You tell me how discreet it is."

    There was no deception," Belichick said...

    "I don't know what his agenda is, and again, he was fired for poor job performance," Belichick said. "There's not a lot of credibility. You know he's tried to make it seem like we're buddies and belong to the same book club and all that. And that's really a long, long stretch."

    Belichick says Walsh was in no position to know.

    "For him to talk about game-planning and strategy and play-calling and how he advised co-ordinators, is - it's embarrassing; it's absurd," Belichick said. "He didn't have any knowledge of football. He was our third video assistant."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4104058.shtml

  20. #70

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    CBS edited out a bombshell: the source of the walkthrough tape rumor was indeed Matt Walsh, according to Bill Belichick himself. Belichick confirmed that Walsh told others in the organization that he had made such a tape.

    hers's thefull transcript, which includes this news, details about his interpretation of the rules, how Walsh on multiple occasions has been caught in telling "revised versions" of his story, and specifics on how, when, and why the tapes were used.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal.../reiss_pieces/

    The following is a transcript after listening to the full interview between Patriots Bill Belichick and Armen Keteyian of CBS during a 14-minute interview posted on CBS’ website:

    What are your overall thoughts to Matt Walsh’s comments?
    “I’m not really sure where to start. I think, first of all, go back to when he was here and was fired for poor job performance, and then for secretly audio-taping a conversation with his boss. More than one person has told me that he said, after Super Bowl XXXVI, that he had videotaped the Rams walkthrough practice. Now that story has changed. It seems like he has an agenda. I’m not really sure, I don’t know. Three-and-a-half months after that [Boston Herald] story was out, he could have said what he said last week [earlier]. But there was quite a bit – over 100 days had passed – so I’m not sure what the agenda is. He’s had a way of embellishing stories and that continues to be the case. I don’t know the answer to those questions.”

    What is your personal feeling about Matt Walsh right now?
    “Well, that things seem to be shifting, things seem to be embellished, and he’s made some comments relative to me that I don’t how, or why, he’d come up with those. We didn’t really have much of a relationship at all when he was here. He was in the opposite end of the building, on a different floor. We very rarely saw or talked to each other. For him to represent how I felt, what I thought, or what I did, I don’t know where that would possibly come from. The fact that he has tried to make it seem like we were buddies and belonged to the same book club is really a long, long stretch.”

    In a statement, this organization questioned “the truthfulness of many of Matt Walsh’s statements.” What do you think he’s lying about?
    “He’s changed a lot of things he’s said. Whatever his testimony was to the league, most recently, that is kind of the latest version of it.”

    [B]Is there a specific example to what you think he’s lying about when he talks about how this organization was deceptive, and the way his taping was set up?
    “That was never the case. He was in full Patriots gear. I can show you videos of him doing his job, during the game, shooting the shot that he shot in the end zone – the kickers, the tight [shot] on the quarterback, and at times [opposing teams’] signals. We weren’t trying to be discreet about it. Again, in all honesty, we felt like what we were doing was OK.”

    Walsh said it was arrogant of you to say you misinterpreted NFL rules, and that you said that this illegal taping was of little value – 1 out of a scale of 100 – and that his feeling was that it may very well be the reason you won three Super Bowls.
    “First of all, I’ll start it back first – the reason you win football games is because of players. Players make plays on the field to win games, and that’s how you win them. They’re the ones that win games. But there are a lot of things that go into preparation for a game – it’s a mosaic. There are hundreds of things. In our case, sometimes signals are involved, sometimes they’re not.”

    Let me go back to the specific thing that Walsh said. He said it was arrogant of you to say you misinterpreted NFL rules.
    “My interpretation of the NFL rules came from the Constitution & Bylaws. I think it’s paragraph 14 there, the Constitution & Bylaws states, very clearly, that you can not use any type of videotaping device or anything like that, from the start of the game, to the conclusion of the game. That was never done. We never ever, ever used any of the videotaping in any way during the course of any game. That’s what I felt like I was in compliance with, and that’s what my basis for really everything that we’ve done in terms of competing in the National Football League.”

    I have a copy of those Constitution & Bylaws. It’s article 9, 14b, 14. It ends with “during the playing of a game”. So that’s what you base your defense on – that the taping was legal under NFL bylaws and constitution as long as you were not using it during the playing of a game?
    “It was never used during the playing of a game. Never. Now, subsequently, there was a memo that Ray Anderson sent out at the beginning of the 2006 season, and that was an error on my part. I take full accountability for that. At that point, I feel like I should have gone to the league. I made a mistake. I should have gone to the league and said ‘Look, are we OK doing this, even though we’re not using it within the game?’ I didn’t do that. We continued to do what we had done previously, at times. It wasn’t every game, but it was a significant number, and did it based on the Constitution – and feeling that as long as we weren’t using it during the game that it was OK.”

    When you say it was a significant number – from September of ’06 to when you were finally caught in September of ’07 – how many games?
    “I don’t know. Probably more than half, I would say.”

    That September of 2006 memo states “videotaping of any kind, including but limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club members during the game.” That seems pretty crystal clear to any kind of misinterpretation.
    “Yeah. Again, during the game.”

    It says “during the game”. But it does not say “during the playing of a game.” Different.
    “Right. Clearly it was a mistake.”

    Some people would say that mistake is just flat out cheating.
    “Again, I go back to the Constitution & Bylaws. That overrode it. I interpreted it incorrectly. I was wrong and we were penalized for it.”

    Heavy penalized in your mind? Unfairly penalized in your mind?
    “It doesn’t really make any difference. It wasn’t my penalty. It was the commissioner’s decision. Whatever it was, that’s what it was.”

    Others have argued that you chose to gamble, to risk breaking the rules, and got caught – and that it wasn’t a misinterpretation of any kind.
    “I can’t control what other people think out there. I’m telling you what happened, and that’s what happened. I think if that was our intent then we would have done it in a more discreet way. We were open about it. We had instances where opposing coaches actually turned and waved at the camera. They saw it. There were other teams that we felt like were doing it. Again, look, in preparation for a game, the signals that a coach gives out there, everybody can see. We’ve had coaches in the press box take notes of those signals. We videotaped them. It wasn’t anything that wasn’t visible or wasn’t available. We did it in a way that was more convenient and in a way that we could study a little better. But those signals are available to anybody that wants to see them.”

    Can I go back to Matt Walsh and his departure? Do you feel what he is saying, in any way, is payback for being fired by this organization?
    “You’d have to talk to him about that. I don’t know what his…”

    You have to have an opinion.
    “Again, I had very little contact with Matt. I didn’t know him personally. As I said, I don’t know if I could recognize him, and I don’t think I could have prior to his recent publicity. So what his agenda is, what his reasons are and so forth, that’s something you’d have to ask him.”

    Can you clarify what happened with those tapes once they went to Ernie Adams?
    “Yeah, absolutely. He looked at them and it was, again, a mosaic. It was compiled, it was put in together with a lot of other information about what the team did, and our preparation for the game. But I met with the quarterbacks twice a week. When Charlie [Weis] was the offensive coordinator, Josh [McDaniels] was the offensive coordinator, [Tom] Brady – there were not quarterback/Ernie Adams/Bill Belichick/offensive coordinator meetings where we sat down and looked at signals and made up game-plans based on that. That didn’t happen. It didn’t happen. Ernie looked at them. At times there was some information that came out of it, he used it. That’s how it was done. It was one part of a very broad – hundreds of things that are put into preparation and game-planning. So there was no ‘OK, we’re going to sit down here on this day and have this meeting, and there are the signals, and here are the plays we’re going to run and all that’. That never happened.”

    So there was no calculated, deliberate system put in place to take advantage of this illegal taping?
    “No, because you can’t take advantage of signals. You don’t know whether they are ever going to be available or not. They can change them. They can use wristbands. They can have somebody stand in front of the person that is signaling them. We signal all the time. We’re always protective of our signals. We change them on a regular basis. We have people screen the signal-caller and we use wristbands. We protect them, just like a third-base coach does. I think most teams in the league do that.”

    Some might argue that in a game of inches – putting that type of information, where you can decode signals, come up with specific plays to use in real-time during a game, is pure gold in the NFL, and could be the difference between winning and losing.
    “Again, you can get those same signals by sitting up in the press box and writing down what the signal is, and what the play was, and doing it that way. Those signals are available to anybody who wants to see them.”

    Then why do it from the sidelines?
    “It was a more convenient way to study them. It wasn’t any information that isn’t available to anybody else. Anybody can sit up in the press box and watch a coach give signals.”

    But they don’t have them on tape, where they can go back and analyze them and they can decode them. Writing them down on a piece of paper…
    “We’re not talking about DNA. You’ve seen the signals on the sideline. You can sit there and watch them. We’ve done it without tape. We’ve done it, and every team takes an advance scout, or they have people that look at the other teams’ signals. Sometimes you can get them, sometimes they change them. Signaling defenses and personnel, and all that, that is part of football. And everybody is available to see those signals. It’s not like the other team, or the other sideline, or the press box or anybody else -- that they’re not visible. They’re available to 70,000 fans.”

    If they weren’t of such great value to you and this organization, then why would Matt Walsh say that he was told by this superiors to avoid detection, to not wear Patriots clothing on the sidelines, and to lie if he was asked about what he was shooting?
    “I don’t know of anybody that would have told him that. I never told anybody to tell him that. I don’t think his superiors told him to do that.”

    You don’t think, or you don’t know, whether [video director] Jimmy Dee, his superior, told him that?
    “He was never instructed to do that. Jimmy said that he never did that. But you can see the tapes of Matt filming the games. You can see him in the end-zone camera, shooting them. He’s as open as you can be. He’s standing there behind the camera in full Patriots gear, shooting the tapes. You can make a judgment on that, Armen. You can see him standing there in the end zone shooting it. It’s not anything discreet.”

    Since I’m here, is there anything else you’d like to say about this to put this to rest, so to speak?
    “Yeah, two things. I think that the players and the assistant coaches have no involvement in this whatsoever. For them to be dragged in or questioned at all on it is totally out of the scope and the realm of what this is about. I think our players and our assistant coaches work hard and they prepare hard, and they go out and do their best to win. That’s why I respect them. That’s why they’ve done as well as they have. On a going-forward basis, I think what we’ve taken from this as an organization is that we have learned from the problems we had in the fall. We’ve looked at really every single area of our operation. We’ve tried to tighten it down. We’ve tightened down our accountability. We’ve streamlined some things. We are certainly taking the extra step in every situation that we can, to make sure we are in full, complete compliance with everything we have to do, at every level. And believe me, there are a lot of things that we need to be. There is a very broad spectrum of things that you need to be in compliance with in the National Football League. Commissioner Goodell has instituted kind of an integrity and [reporting requirement] of doing it, and we’ve gone well beyond that to try to make sure we’re doing things in the right way, and I think that has been a positive step for our organization. There is more communication, there is better understanding, and we’re making sure everything is done in a totally proper and consistent way with what the league expects to be done. I think that has strengthened our organization and certainly Robert and Jonathan Kraft have gone a long way to not only supporting me and the football team, but also making sure that going forward, we’re in complete compliance with everything we need to be doing.”
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 05-17-2008 at 01:45 PM.

  21. #71
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Can you tell me why we should believe anything Bill Belichick says? I mean, Roger Goodell himself doesn't believe Belichick's explanation for the events.

    Belichick acknowledged that he violated NFL rules prohibiting filming opponents signals but insisted there was no intent to hide what he was doing.

    "I made a mistake," he said in the interview. "I was wrong. I was wrong."

    That rationale has already been rejected by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, who fined the coach $500,000 and docked the Patriots $250,000 and its first-round draft pick.

    "I didn't accept Bill Belichick's explanation for what happened," Goodell said Tuesday, "and I still don't to this day."

    http://sportsline.com/nfl/story/10829490

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