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Thread: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

  1. #26
    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    Time to move on, nothing to see here, no asterisks, no added punishments, no invalidation of anything achieved on the field.
    Maybe the NFL didn't do anything official as far as their records or asterisks, but from this time forward, nobody will talk about the Patriots during this era without also bringing up the fact that they cheated during it. I know you don't want to believe it, but it's true.

  2. #27
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    Maybe the NFL didn't do anything official as far as their records or asterisks, but from this time forward, nobody will talk about the Patriots during this era without also bringing up the fact that they cheated during it. I know you don't want to believe it, but it's true.
    For the next 4-5 years maybe, but as time goes on spygate will be forgotten..maybe with the exception of a few bitter Colts fans once their team goes back into obscurity. They will claim they should have had a dynasty in this decade..but those damn cheatin Pats blocked them!

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Yeah just like in 4-5 years no one will mention Barry Bonds and steroids together either.

  4. #29
    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    For the next 4-5 years maybe, but as time goes on spygate will be forgotten..maybe with the exception of a few bitter Colts fans once their team goes back into obscurity. They will claim they should have had a dynasty in this decade..but those damn cheatin Pats blocked them!
    You're wrong. This will never be forgotten by Colts fans or any other NFL fans for that matter. The Tom Brady Pats will always be linked to the spygate cheating scandal. I know it's hard for you to believe, but it's true. Nobody will ever forget.

  5. #30
    Fear my small avatar Gyron's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    I think to Pat's fans, this will all be a distant memory. To all other NFL fans, it will forever make them wonder what the advantage may have been......

  6. #31
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    You're wrong. This will never be forgotten by Colts fans or any other NFL fans for that matter. The Tom Brady Pats will always be linked to the spygate cheating scandal. I know it's hard for you to believe, but it's true. Nobody will ever forget.
    I disagree. Especially once we win another SB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyron View Post
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    I think to Pat's fans, this will all be a distant memory. To all other NFL fans, it will forever make them wonder what the advantage may have been......
    We will know this in the next few years..although some of the evidence is already there. Post spygate, 18-1.

  7. #32
    Fear my small avatar Gyron's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Post Spygate was a different team......You didn't have Moss before....

  8. #33
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyron View Post
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    Post Spygate was a different team......You didn't have Moss before....
    Sure, but we did have a much better defense and a consistent running game. I think that's a fairly even trade off.

  9. #34

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    You're wrong. This will never be forgotten by Colts fans or any other NFL fans for that matter. The Tom Brady Pats will always be linked to the spygate cheating scandal. I know it's hard for you to believe, but it's true. Nobody will ever forget.
    Are bigger cheaters similarly tainted?

    When you think of John Elway do you think of Super Bowls won when he and Terrell Davis were given secret and illegal contract bonuses to circumvent the NFL salary cap and allow them to sign additional talent to strengthen their team?

    Do you think less of the 90's Cowboys now that Jimmy Johnson says he tried all that taping signals stuff?

    When you think of the Carolina Panthers from a few years back, is the first thing you think of the fact that so many of their players were busted for steroids?

    The answers are no, no, and no

    The only reason this would be any different is that those crimes were far greater than the coverage of the crimes, and in this case it is the opposite. There was endless coverage, for months, based solely upon multiple lies about...

    -a SB walkthrough tape
    -people decoding signals at halftime
    -taping is the "tip of the iceberg" since there has to be other stuff like listening in on QB communication


    It must be sad for you guys to see your fantasies shot down. BSPN is taking it hard too. It will be curious if the Patriots ever bury the hatchet with "the Worldwide Liars", assuming Fish/Schlereth/Hoge et. al. offer no retractions. It may be tough continuing to have access to 31/32 of the league.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 05-13-2008 at 05:47 PM.

  10. #35

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    Are bigger cheaters similarly tainted?

    When you think of John Elway do you think of Super Bowls won when he and Terrell Davis were given secret and illegal contract bonuses to circumvent the NFL salary cap and allow them to sign additional talent to strengthen their team?

    Do you think less of the 90's Cowboys now that Jimmy Johnson says he tried all that taping signals stuff?

    When you think of the Carolina Panthers from a few years back, is the first thing you think of the fact that so many of their players were busted for steroids?

    The answers are no, no, and no

    The only reason this would be any different is that those crimes were far greater than the coverage of the crimes, and in this case it is the opposite. There was endless coverage, for months, based solely upon multiple lies about...

    -a SB walkthrough tape
    -people decoding signals at halftime
    -taping is the "tip of the iceberg" since there has to be other stuff like listening in on QB communication


    It must be sad for you guys to see your fantasies shot down. BSPN is taking it hard too. It will be curious if the Patriots ever bury the hatchet with "the Worldwide Liars", assuming Fish/Schlereth/Hoge et. al. offer no retractions. It may be tough continuing to have access to 31/32 of the league.


    Why would BSPN be taking it hard they're the ones who love the Patriots remember?


    Putting that aside those aren't bigger than this not even close. The government didn't get involved in those instances of cheating but this one. That's why it will stand out not to mention Goodell destroying those tapes did more harm than good in the eyes of the public. If he had disclosed what was on those tapes back then instead of sweeping it under the rug folks would be more inclined to believe him. But he didn't and instead he made things look much worse.


    It will never be forgotten by those NFL fans who believe there's something more to this. But in the grand scheme of things you're right the NFL will still keep going as if it never happened.

  11. #36

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Why would BSPN be taking it hard
    BSPN loves ratings.

    In December and January they seized upon the opportunity to pump up the Patriots as an invincible force,

    and then they found out greater ratings could be obtained by promoting fabricated stories, continually reminding us that Walsh had bombshells to tell, and insisting that spygate I was just the tip of the iceberg that was spygate II.

    It wasn't the tip of the iceberg, it was a tiny icecube that melted at their feet and they look silly, I am told.

    I say "I am told" since channel 206 on my direct TV remote, ESPN, has long ago been programmed to not exist on my TV lineup. They are dead to me.

    Maybe I should do the same for their web site. Their level of journalism equals that of MTV or the dearly departed Weekly World News, the creator of "bat boy" and the living President Kennedy.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 05-13-2008 at 07:02 PM.

  12. #37
    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    Are bigger cheaters similarly tainted?

    When you think of John Elway do you think of Super Bowls won when he and Terrell Davis were given secret and illegal contract bonuses to circumvent the NFL salary cap and allow them to sign additional talent to strengthen their team?

    Do you think less of the 90's Cowboys now that Jimmy Johnson says he tried all that taping signals stuff?

    When you think of the Carolina Panthers from a few years back, is the first thing you think of the fact that so many of their players were busted for steroids?

    The answers are no, no, and no

    The only reason this would be any different is that those crimes were far greater than the coverage of the crimes, and in this case it is the opposite. There was endless coverage, for months, based solely upon multiple lies about...

    -a SB walkthrough tape
    -people decoding signals at halftime
    -taping is the "tip of the iceberg" since there has to be other stuff like listening in on QB communication


    It must be sad for you guys to see your fantasies shot down. BSPN is taking it hard too. It will be curious if the Patriots ever bury the hatchet with "the Worldwide Liars", assuming Fish/Schlereth/Hoge et. al. offer no retractions. It may be tough continuing to have access to 31/32 of the league.
    This has nothing to do with any of those other scandals you mentioned. What I'm saying, and it is completely true, is that in 5, 10, even 50 years, people will still remember the Tom Brady era Patriots at least as much for their cheating as they will for their Super Bowl wins. I know it's hard to accept, and you don't like it, and will say anything to try to distract us from it, but it's true. Spygate is over and so are my comments on it. It's not even worth it to try to talk about it anymore.

  13. #38
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Putting that aside those aren't bigger than this not even close. The government didn't get involved in those instances of cheating but this one. That's why it will stand out not to mention Goodell destroying those tapes did more harm than good in the eyes of the public. If he had disclosed what was on those tapes back then instead of sweeping it under the rug folks would be more inclined to believe him. But he didn't and instead he made things look much worse.


    It will never be forgotten by those NFL fans who believe there's something more to this. But in the grand scheme of things you're right the NFL will still keep going as if it never happened.
    Roids and cheating the salary cap are equally serious if not more serious than taping signals...if you think otherwise, you don't know a whole lot about the NFLs salary cap and how effective steroids can be. I'm also not sure how the government was involved. If you mean one senator (Arlen Specter) who wants to be on the front page of ESPN as much as possible. If you'll recall, this is not the first time he has tried to get involved with the NFL (See him trying to punish Eagles and NFL over handling of T.O.s contract). As for the tapes, Goodell may have made a mistake in destroying the first set, but the second set Walsh turned in were shown on ESPN. The tapes that Walsh turned in are similar to the tapes that Goodell destroyed back at the start of the year. If believing in theory conspiracies helps you sleep better at night, then more power to you..but it's pretty clear that all the Pats did was tape signals. Yes thats bad and it was cheating, but it was punished long ago and it is now proven that there is absolutely nothing more to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    This has nothing to do with any of those other scandals you mentioned. What I'm saying, and it is completely true, is that in 5, 10, even 50 years, people will still remember the Tom Brady era Patriots at least as much for their cheating as they will for their Super Bowl wins. I know it's hard to accept, and you don't like it, and will say anything to try to distract us from it, but it's true. Spygate is over and so are my comments on it. It's not even worth it to try to talk about it anymore.
    Stop stating this as a fact. This is clearly your opinion. Obviously as a Colts fan, you are always going to remember the cheating first followed by how good of a team they were. I think people will remember the Patriots much more for their dominance then for spygate. You will watch on NFL network or ESPN classic 5,10,15, 50 years from now some of the Patriots SB wins and there wont even be a mention of spygate..you just watch. I just hope the Pats win a couple more SBs just to put all the doubt to rest.
    Last edited by Moses; 05-13-2008 at 10:40 PM.

  14. #39

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Roids and cheating the salary cap are equally serious if not more serious than taping signals...if you think otherwise, you don't know a whole lot about the NFLs salary cap and how effective steroids can be. I'm also not sure how the government was involved. If you mean one senator (Arlen Specter) who wants to be on the front page of ESPN as much as possible. If you'll recall, this is not the first time he has tried to get involved with the NFL (See him trying to punish Eagles and NFL over handling of T.O.s contract). As for the tapes, Goodell may have made a mistake in destroying the first set, but the second set Walsh turned in were shown on ESPN. The tapes that Walsh turned in are similar to the tapes that Goodell destroyed back at the start of the year. If believing in theory conspiracies helps you sleep better at night, then more power to you..but it's pretty clear that all the Pats did was tape signals. Yes thats bad and it was cheating, but it was punished long ago and it is now proven that there is absolutely nothing more to it.


    I never said that it wasn't as bad just that it won't be nearly as memorable to the public as Spygate was. Spygate will be memorable because it came during a season where it looked as if the Patriots were going to be undefeated. And the government did take a part in this. They didn't care about the salary cap at all they never have this Spygate situation affects what's on the field. Ergo a fradulent product could affect TV rights and etc.


    I personally could care less if the Pats stole signals because I don't think they are alone in this and its a common practice in the NFL they were dumb enough to get caught.


    I do however find it questionable that Goodell destroyed the tapes when he got them and didn't disclose what was on them back in September for that his credibility is going to be questioned and folks will believe the Patriots have preferential treatment because of it.


    Now you need to accept that.

  15. #40

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    I do however find it questionable that Goodell destroyed the tapes when he got them and didn't disclose what was on them back in September for that his credibility is going to be questioned and folks will believe the Patriots have preferential treatment because of it.
    This was the huge red flag for me. Why destroy them if there wasn't something to hide? Surely, the teams have changed their signals by now. Right? The Patriots weren't going to reacquire the tapes. What was there to gain by destroying the tapes before the public -- the people that buy the tickets -- got the full story?

    To me, it didn't scream Patriot favoritism. The NFL will survive with or without the Patriots. I don't think Goodell would protect them. But he would protect the NFL. Was there something on those tapes that would've hurt the league's credibility? Or revenue?

    Those tapes could've revealed something horrible about the Patriots. But it's more likely they could've damaged the league's reputation.

  16. #41
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    In other news, The Boston Herald apologized for putting out a false story.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3395152

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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Stop stating this as a fact. This is clearly your opinion. Obviously as a Colts fan, you are always going to remember the cheating first followed by how good of a team they were. I think people will remember the Patriots much more for their dominance then for spygate. You will watch on NFL network or ESPN classic 5,10,15, 50 years from now some of the Patriots SB wins and there wont even be a mention of spygate..you just watch. I just hope the Pats win a couple more SBs just to put all the doubt to rest.
    It's my opinion that spygate will be remembered and forever associated with these Patriots, and it's yours that it won't. Why is it that you can have your opinion, but I can't have mine? We'll call it even and let time decide who is right.
    Last edited by travmil; 05-14-2008 at 08:30 AM.

  18. #43

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    the Herald's apology: sorry, our bad, we made it up... rewind 3 1/2 months, Spygate part II was just a fabrication.

    The silly part is that the Herald was only the little mouse with a made-up story, who whispered it to the lion BSPN, who continually roared about the fake story, telling us spygate part I was

    "the tip of the iceberg", that

    Walsh "seems credible" and

    "he must have something really important to reveal."

    It was maddened hearing Sal Palontonio on Mike and Mike essentially lecturing the Herald for lacking journalistic integrity. Sure, they deserve the lecture, but not from ESPN.

    Hello, McFly!!

    The guys at ESPN swallowed it hook, line, and sinker and crammed it down our throats, especially Fish, Palontonio, and Schlereth.

    They also have some explaining to do in the area of journalistic ethics, but they will probably just leave it up to the web site ombudsman to clean up their mess.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    I got a big kick out of the stink BSPN was giving the Boston Herald. The Herald was obviously wrong, or their source was, whatever. But Wingo acting all high and mighty when their network thrives on erroneous reports being passed off as fact was laughable.

  20. #45

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    a visual:


  21. #46
    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Look at the stories and pictures they use. Is that paper the national Enquirer of the Boston sports world or something? You'd think by reading and looking at it that the Boston area doesn't have world class sports organizations in nearly every way. Boston has a lot to be proud of but not according to the Herald. The only positive thing on the whole page is the 10% off ad.

  22. #47
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    It's my opinion that spygate will be remembered and forever associated with these Patriots, and it's yours that it won't. Why is it that you can have your opinion, but I can't have mine? We'll call it even and let time decide who is right.
    I have no problem with your opinion, but you are outright calling us wrong and acting as though what you are saying is fact. I never said you couldn't have your opinion, but please add 'I believe' in front of some of the things you say so I don't feel like I am being called an idiot.

  23. #48

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Of couse spygate will be associated with the Patriots. The question is whether it invalidates the dynasty.

    I submit that the 17-1 record after the videotaping practices were halted suggests that the Patriots might manage to stay competitive a bit longer.

    Last year does show, however, that winning championships is incredibly hard.

    If somehow they win another or two, while facing the most scrutiny of any team in the history of sports, then even the haters will have to give them some credit.

    If it is over and they never reach another Super Bowl, then the timing will help to invalidate their accomplishments, to an unfair extent in my opinion.

    I just hope that the media is again ready to bombard Brady et. al. with questions about how the previous seasons just don't count and that there should be asterisks next to the past 7 seasons.


    Anger over such a stupid overreaction seems to be a terrific motivator, though it is amazing to expect them to continually keep up the total all-out focus -the one play at a time/ one series at a time/ one game at a time mentality. If they do, is is a testament to great coaching and to a level of psychological preparedness rarely (if ever) seen.

  24. #49
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Hmm..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotoworld
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    Retired quarterback Jay Fielder says the Dolphins tried to steal signals from the Patriots when he played.
    "There were times in games when we knew certain defensive calls from what we were able to gather during the game or our scouts’ eyesight," Fiedler revealed. He called knowing defensive signals "a huge advantage. If the quarterback knows what’s coming, he can dissect it at the line of scrimmage."
    http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...116261&id=1309
    Last edited by Moses; 05-14-2008 at 05:38 PM.

  25. #50

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    The Herald jerkwad writer Tomase promises to tell the full story tomorrow:

    May 14th, 2008
    An explanation is coming
    Posted by John Tomase at 5:24 pm

    Readers of this space have probably been asking themselves, “Where the hell is Tomase?” over the last couple of days and it’s a fair query. Right now I’m just landing from Washington and working on a story about Arlen Specter’s press conference regarding his interview with Matt Walsh.

    While that is going to have me tied up for the rest of the night, I just wanted to make one thing clear ? I know I screwed up on the Rams taping story and I don’t intend to hide behind today’s apology or an editor’s note. In Friday’s Herald I will explain as clearly as I can where that story went wrong and begin the journey of restoring your trust in my reporting.

    I cannot in good conscience demand accountability of the people I cover and then not provide it myself. So it’s coming on Friday. Just be patient.

    John
    -----

    This is interesting. I hope he identifies his fake source. If your source lies, you have no reason to protect him, right?

    http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/patriots/

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