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Thread: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

  1. #1

    Default So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    To paraphrase Roger Goodell when on Mike & Mike recently,

    Goodell:

    If all Mr. Walsh has to offer are additional examples of sideline taping of coaching signals in games, then it is not significant. I reviewed 6 tapes in September, and also notes from earlier instances where the tapes were not in existence. I came to the full understanding that Coach Belichick has had the same interpretation of the rules during his entire coaching tenure. I took all of that into account, the fact that sideline taping of coaching signals for future analysis extends all the way back to the beginnings of his coaching career, when the harsh penalties were assessed."

    It's over. Nobody will be re-punished for the same offense for which the largest punishment in NFL history was already handed down. The appropriate punishment was meted out.

    bottom line on the past 4 months of spygate:

    The Boston Herald and ESPN used unnamed sources, led everyone to believe it was Mr. Walsh, and apparently falsely alleged that the Patriots made a tape of the Rams Super Bowl walkthrough. The persons who need to be punished additionally are Tomase of the Herald and Fish of ESPN for making up a huge story days before the Super Bowl. Now Fish seems to be trying to cover his butt by spinning a non-story as a story. It will be interesting to see if Tomase does the same.

    Robert Kraft probably will not pursue libel charges, since this story would only be kept alive by that action, but a part of me wishes he would, to curb future drive-by journalism

  2. #2

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Well what other ending could the NFL possibly afford here? Seriously it took this long for something to come out of this and this was it? One would think that if there was nothing there this would've been resolved as soon as it broke. I'm sure the NFL and Walsh had some sort of agreement about what can be released and can't... I find it hard to believe he did all this posturing for nothing I mean wouldn't Kraft sue him?


    That being said regardless the NFL can't afford to have Spygate blow up because I don't believe the Patriots are alone in this regard I really don't. The lack of outrage from the rest of the league kind of tells me this. It would be in Goodell's and the NFL's best interest to not have this blow up.

    Personally I could care less of the Patriots did this because I doubt they were alone I hated them long before this and I will hate them long after Spygate has very little to do with it.

    BUT Goodell didn't do himself and the league any favors when he tried to destroy the evidence to begin with the coverup is always worse than the "crime"

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    How do you read that first sentence as it being over?

    It starts with the word "if." "If it's over," is what it says, it doesn't say, 'it's over.'


    Goodell and Walsh haven't even met yet, so how do we know what he has? We don't. Goodell is only saying that if he has more evidence that he taped regular season games from the sidelines then no more punishment will be handed out.

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    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    How do you read that first sentence as it being over?

    It starts with the word "if." "If it's over," is what it says, it doesn't say, 'it's over.'


    Goodell and Walsh haven't even met yet, so how do we know what he has? We don't. Goodell is only saying that if he has more evidence that he taped regular season games from the sidelines then no more punishment will be handed out.
    Yeah, the title is mis-leading, from the title of this thread I thought the meeting had already taken place....

    But it's actually like the 16th, isn't it?
    Last edited by Lord Helmet; 05-08-2008 at 12:34 PM.
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    How do you read that first sentence as it being over?
    Words from the NFL certainly say it's over, and Walsh was required to turn over all evidence by yesterday.

    league spokesman Greg Aiello saying: "This is consistent with what the Patriots had admitted they had been doing, consistent with what we already knew."

    source: associated press

    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j...1KfeQD90HEBS80

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    "... and against Pittsburgh in the 2002 AFC championship game."

    God, Belichick is such a dick.
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    How do you read that first sentence as it being over?
    Obviously he was wearing his Belichick spy glasses when he read it.

  8. #8

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    No, I am listening to the words of Roger Goodell on Mike and Mike a couple of weeks back, and more importantly the more recent words of Mr. Aiello. Grace, are you incapable of interpreting their own words?

    The position was clearly staked out: If the "new evidence" from Mr. Walsh was found to be just more examples of sideline videotaping of signals, then it is not new at all, since punishment in September was based upon the understanding and the admission that this had gone on.

    I find it incredibly convenient the stance I read above:

    1) We are willing to believe evidence AGAINST the Patriots is grounds for more and more punishment

    and at the same time

    2) We believe that the absence of any new evidence would be (and now is) merely a reflection of a vast conspiracy by the NFL to save their product, that the Patriots are guility of everything that anyone might imagine (including global warming and the price of gas), and that Goodell is keeping us from learning this truth.

    With those two beliefs, no matter what evidence is presented, we can comfortably adopt the exact same stance: the Patriots are guilty of everything, facts be damned.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 05-08-2008 at 03:45 PM.

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    You're completely missing the point.

    The statement doesn't say it's over. It say's is over IF Walsh doesn't have any new evidence.

    It doesn't say that it's over, it says it's over IF....

    Again, let me say that one more time. It doesn't say that it's over, it say's it's over IF Walsh doesn't have any new evidence.

    Your title and your bottom line present it as completely over, and that's not what the statement says.

    You read it as over, everyone recognizes that two letter word at the beginning.

  10. #10

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    maybe this can clarify things for you:

    Sports Illustrated:

    "There's no there there.''

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?eref=T1

    Quote Originally Posted by SI
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    That's pretty much the whole ball game right there, isn't it? Walsh will have his long-awaited meeting with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell next Tuesday in New York, and maybe he'll flesh out some more details of the Patriots' espionage. But we now know that there's no big hammer headline to come. No suspension to be handed down...

    "Thanks for coming, and drive home safely.'' To call it anticlimactic will register as understatement. And I can't say that I'd be able to blame the NFL or the Patriots if they're more than a bit chafed over the whole Walsh affair...

    Walsh doesn't have anything that proves they were guilty of the smarmy charge that they taped their opponent's practice the day before New England's first Super Bowl win in 2002.

    Any way you cut it, that accusation was at the heart of the Matt Walsh saga. And it didn't stick. It didn't stand up. It remains nothing more than an unsubstantiated report. A rumor.

    Not surprisingly, we're all left to look back and wonder what all the fuss was about? In the end, there was no there there when it comes to the Patriots and their opponent's 2002 Super Bowl walkthrough. With that, Spygate finally seems to have at long last run its course. For Walsh, it will soon be time to head back to Hawaii and the golf course. His 15 minutes of fame lasted a lot closer to 15 weeks, but it's almost over.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 05-08-2008 at 04:29 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    The statement doesn't say it's over. It say's is over IF Walsh doesn't have any new evidence.
    Fact 1: the evidence was required to be turned over by Walsh yesterday.

    Fact 2: Walsh's attorney last night described in detail the nature of all of the evidence that his client had already sent to the NFL earlier in the day

    Fact 3: based upon the information from the lawyer, last night, after hearing the summary from Walsh's lawyer, the NFL spokesman says that the evidence described is merely "consistent with what we already knew"

    I guess technically Walsh's lawyer could be lying, the NFL could look at the tapes and see something there that apparently neither Walsh nor his lawyer understood or that Walsh did not tell his lawyer. In that case, it isn't over. Does this scenario seem likely to you?

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Meh, I called this several days ago. No big surprise to me.

    Hopefully the loss of this year's first-rounder, coupled with the Super Bowl loss, will force Beli to eat some humble pie for a change. Lord knows he needs some.
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    I doubt this changes anything. The Pats have a rediculously easy schedule this year, and the attitude that they are untouchable now.

    Welcome to Hell, I mean the NFL.

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    ESPN ticker says the tapes will be released to the media on Tuesday.

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    Fact 1: the evidence was required to be turned over by Walsh yesterday.

    Fact 2: Walsh's attorney last night described in detail the nature of all of the evidence that his client had already sent to the NFL earlier in the day

    Fact 3: based upon the information from the lawyer, last night, after hearing the summary from Walsh's lawyer, the NFL spokesman says that the evidence described is merely "consistent with what we already knew"

    I guess technically Walsh's lawyer could be lying, the NFL could look at the tapes and see something there that apparently neither Walsh nor his lawyer understood or that Walsh did not tell his lawyer. In that case, it isn't over. Does this scenario seem likely to you?

    How about you step back and quit trying to argue and actually look at what I was saying, it might help a bit.

    I wasn't talking about the facts of the case. I was talking about the original statement you posted and what it actually said, and what you were trying to say it said.

    Everyone, but you, read that tiny little word towards the beginning, which changed the whole way you interpreted it. I wasn't saying the report was wrong, never cited anything else, just that you were jumping to a conclusion that wasn't supported by the statement you posted.

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Meh, I called this several days ago. No big surprise to me.

    Hopefully the loss of this year's first-rounder, coupled with the Super Bowl loss, will force Beli to eat some humble pie for a change. Lord knows he needs some.
    What sucks about them losing that first rounder is they still had the 49ers (I think it was) pick which they traded down for salary purposes.

    That really sucks. Sure they lose the last pick in the first round but they still got to keep the 10th.

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    Fear my small avatar Gyron's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Guys, it's all semantics.

    One way or another, its likely this thing is pretty much over unless walsh has something shocking to say when he meets with Goodell.

    I'm all for the patriots getting punished further, but honestly, I'm also tired of hearing about it, so hopefully we're done with this soon one way or another.

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyron View Post
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    Guys, it's all semantics.

    One way or another, its likely this thing is pretty much over unless walsh has something shocking to say when he meets with Goodell.

    I'm all for the patriots getting punished further, but honestly, I'm also tired of hearing about it, so hopefully we're done with this soon one way or another.
    Any chance of the Patriots getting dismissed from the NFL?
    or at least take away their rings and trophies

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    The only reason the Pats have an easy schedule this year is that they are in a lame conference.

    It's weird but I've never really gotten into all the Patriot-hate. I don't like Wes Welker at all, but I hated him when he was in Miami as well. BB has the personality of a rock, but his teams win and while Dungy is a great guy he has never came through in the playoffs consistently like BB. Pats fans stereotype Colts fans as being more obsessed with the Pats screwing up than the Colts doing well. To an extent I think that's true.

    Sure, I want to beat the Patriots every time we play them. But I don't really hate the Patriots, I see them as a fellow really good team in the NFL. What I hope happens is that we can win the next two Super Bowls so that we have an argument in this "team of the decade" talk. But WE have to win the Super Bowls for this to happen, not the New York Giants.
    Already stoked for 2013-2014.

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    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    The only reason the Pats have an easy schedule this year is that they are in a lame conference.

    It's weird but I've never really gotten into all the Patriot-hate. I don't like Wes Welker at all, but I hated him when he was in Miami as well. BB has the personality of a rock, but his teams win and while Dungy is a great guy he has never came through in the playoffs consistently like BB. Pats fans stereotype Colts fans as being more obsessed with the Pats screwing up than the Colts doing well. To an extent I think that's true.

    Sure, I want to beat the Patriots every time we play them. But I don't really hate the Patriots, I see them as a fellow really good team in the NFL. What I hope happens is that we can win the next two Super Bowls so that we have an argument in this "team of the decade" talk. But WE have to win the Super Bowls for this to happen, not the New York Giants.
    Well I think it's kind of probably both ways. Both teams fans are obsessed with each team, or at least a lot of fans are. The teams are part of the biggest rivalry going in the NFL, so it's expected. And when both teams are really, really good teams, it just adds more fuel to the fire, that is the rivalry.

    The RATS boards used to be basically a second home for Patriot fans. I mean that place was packed with Patriot fans and Patriot trolls.
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helmet View Post
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    Well I think it's kind of probably both ways. Both teams fans are obsessed with each team, or at least a lot of fans are. The teams are part of the biggest rivalry going in the NFL, so it's expected. And when both teams are really, really good teams, it just adds more fuel to the fire, that is the rivalry.

    The RATS boards used to be basically a second home for Patriot fans. I mean that place was packed with Patriot fans and Patriot trolls.

    I gotta agree. I'm not going to deny that Colts fans are obsessed with the Pats, but let's not pretend that this doesn't work both ways. Anyone who visited the Star forum this past season can verify that the place was just flooded with Patriots fans-some trolls, some legitimate posters. They wouldn't be there if they weren't concerned with the Colts.

    Personally, I am proud that an Indiana team is at front and center of one of the hottest rivalries in American Sports, one that shows no signs of slowing down anytime soon.

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    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helmet View Post
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    Well I think it's kind of probably both ways. Both teams fans are obsessed with each team, or at least a lot of fans are. The teams are part of the biggest rivalry going in the NFL, so it's expected. And when both teams are really, really good teams, it just adds more fuel to the fire, that is the rivalry.

    The RATS boards used to be basically a second home for Patriot fans. I mean that place was packed with Patriot fans and Patriot trolls.
    I may be a minority, but I am a fan of the NFL first and the Patriots second. I would rather watch the Colts duke it out with SD/Jax then watch NE play a scrub team any day of the week. I don't really hate any team maybe with the exception of the Steelers. I do like the rivalry factor going on between the Colts and the Pats though. Fans of every team mark that game down as a can't miss game every season and probably have been doing so since 2003. I really think when people think back on this era of football, they wont remember any single team (unless the Pats win 2 more SBs this decade) rather they will remember a time of fierce competition between the Colts and Patriots. Every year, everyone expects one of those 2 teams to not only be in the SB but to win it as well. I'm sure some Pats fans will disagree, but this one thinks people will remember the Colts just as much as they do the Patriots. You've got to remember that every playoff game between the Pats and Colts this decade have been very tight games.
    Last edited by Moses; 05-12-2008 at 03:10 PM.

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    I may be a minority, but I am a fan of the NFL first and the Patriots second. I would rather watch the Colts duke it out with SD/Jax then watch NE play a scrub team any day of the week. I don't really hate any team maybe with the exception of the Steelers. I do like the rivalry factor going on between the Colts and the Pats though. Fans of every team mark that game down as a can't miss game every season and probably have been doing so since 2003. I really think when people think back on this era of football, they wont remember any single team (unless the Pats win 2 more SBs this decade) rather they will remember a time of fierce competition between the Colts and Patriots. Every year, everyone expects one of those 2 teams to not only be in the SB but to win it as well. I'm sure some Pats fans will disagree, but this one thinks people will remember the Colts just as much as they do the Patriots. You've got to remember that every playoff game between the Pats and Colts this decade have been very tight games.

    I agree with this. If the Colts can win one more SB, then there's no question that they are basically equal with the Pats as far as being an icon of the decade.

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    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    After seeing the tapes on ESPN today, there is no way even the staunchest Patriots fan could say that this didn't give them a competitive advantage. The tapes are full of endzone shots of what the defense formation looks like, and the down and distance situation. The Pats greatness during this era will forever be questioned, and there's really no defending what they did here. Goodell is on ESPN right now.

    From what Goodell explained, the Rams tape rumor seems to stem from the fact that some of the Pats video department, including Walsh, were seen on the field during the Rams walkthrough. Walsh said no tape was made by him or anyone else to his knowledge. So THAT part is dead. There is no Rams SB tape.

    2 new pieces of info from the Walsh meeting: Walsh said he had seen a tape, but did not have it, of a Pats player on IR who was practicing with the team, which is against the rules. He identified the player, but Goodell said they have dealt with similar situations before with a fine, and would not further punish the Pats if it turns out it's true.

    Also, Walsh told him that players scalping their SB tickets was a widespread problem, but I would almost guarantee that goes on under the table, at least to a certain extent, with every team.
    Last edited by travmil; 05-13-2008 at 12:49 PM.

  25. #25

    Default Re: So spygate ends in a wimper, not a roar

    more facts

    -Walsh confirmed that there was NEVER any in-game processing of tapes, and they were broken down and edited for storage, apparently for possible analysis just prior to when that opponent was played again.

    -Walsh had no knowledge about what coaches or other personnel might have ultimately reviewed the finalized tapes, or if they were always viewed at all.

    -Walsh saved/stole the tapes so that he could verify that he had worked in video for the Patriots, and he also thought he might want to get involved in coaching so he also left with tapes of practices including coaching drills, tapes he later lost or discarded.

    -Walsh was quizzed about a number of other allegations, like stealing radio signals, messing up opponent's electronics, taping practices, bugging locker rooms, recording players on the field, stealing playbooks, etc. Walsh confirmed that he had no knowledge that any of that was ever going on at any time.

    the only minor news: one at least once incident a player on injured reserve practiced. On other occasions, players sold Super Bowl tickets for profit (every NFL playerr is given two tickets to the SB). Both of these types of offenses are usually handled with minor fines.

    It is OFFICIALLY OVER.

    Time to move on, nothing to see here, no asterisks, no added punishments, no invalidation of anything achieved on the field.

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