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Thread: 2 Big Deals

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    FREE LANCE MillerTime's Avatar
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    Default 2 Big Deals

    I have posted these trade on other sites. What are your thoughts on them:

    Pacers need some help this offseason, its obvious. We have on and off court issues that need to be resolved. I had 2 trades in mind:

    1) Trade Tinsley, Daniels and Dunleavy to Bulls for Hinrich, Nocioni and Aaron Simmon (filler). http://realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4575781 for some reason it doesnt work, though it should

    2) Trade Shawne Williams and Harrison (S & T) to Portland for Frye.

    Why for do this? It was obvious that the Pacers defense last season was horrible. We need to improve that this season. Sending Daniels, Harrison, Williams and Tinsley also helps our off-court issues out. A back court of Hinrich, Granger and Nocioni would be on of the best defensive back-courts in the East

    Hinrich/Diener/Flip
    Granger/Rush
    Nicioni/Graham
    Frye/Diogu
    Oneal/Foster or Murphy

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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    I have posted these trade on other sites. What are your thoughts on them:

    Pacers need some help this offseason, its obvious. We have on and off court issues that need to be resolved. I had 2 trades in mind:

    1) Trade Tinsley, Daniels and Dunleavy to Bulls for Hinrich, Nocioni and Aaron Simmon (filler). http://realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4575781 for some reason it doesnt work, though it should
    I like this idea, but why would the Bulls do this? This trade would not make them better in anyway.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

    - Salman Rushdie

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    FREE LANCE MillerTime's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    I like this idea, but why would the Bulls do this? This trade would not make them better in anyway.
    The Bulls need a shake up just as bad as we do. They had a horrible season last year and were expected to be top 5 in the East. Hinrich had a garbage season and many fans are upset with him. Nocioni? Who knows what happened to him. Everyone knows he can play, but for some reason they gave his minutes up after signing him to a long term contract.

    Overall the Bulls are more talent and his does deplete our bench a bit, bit I'd rather have a 7 or 8 man rotation than have a good 11 players that dont all play.

    off the bench we'll still have Diogu, Rush, Foster and Murphy

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    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    I don't see how this improves us that much defensively. Neither Hinrich nor Nocioni is that great on the perimeter. I suppose Hinrich can't be worse than Tins. Not saying I wouldn't the deal. Not saying I would.
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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    I think the Bulls are as shaken up as they can be since they traded for Larry Hughes.

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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    I don't see how this improves us that much defensively. Neither Hinrich nor Nocioni is that great on the perimeter. I suppose Hinrich can't be worse than Tins. Not saying I wouldn't the deal. Not saying I would.
    Hinrich and Nocioni are known as GREAT defenders. Hinrich is one of the best defensive PGs in the leauge. Nocioni is a lock down defender; both in the post and perimeter

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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Nocioni and Granger should not be put on the same team.

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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    Hinrich and Nocioni are known as GREAT defenders. Hinrich is one of the best defensive PGs in the leauge. Nocioni is a lock down defender; both in the post and perimeter
    Well, I looked up voting for def. player of the year for the last three years and neither has received votes. However players like Quinton Ross and Kyle Lowry have received at least one. I'm not saying they are bad defensive players, I just haven't associated either's D with terms like great and lockdown personally.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Nocioni and Granger should not be put on the same team.
    why do you say that? I dont see either one of them being greedy with the ball.

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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    Well, I looked up voting for def. player of the year for the last three years and neither has received votes. However players like Quinton Ross and Kyle Lowry have received at least one. I'm not saying they are bad defensive players, I just haven't associated either's D with terms like great and lockdown personally.
    heres a quote from an article i just read.

    "Nocioni is a feisty scrapper on defense Pat Riley likens him to such world-class past and present pests as Keith Askins, Dan Majerle and Bruce Bowen and the Bulls become very quick and active on that side of
    the ball when hes at the 4 spot. Hes a good on-the-ball defender and an excellent help defender. Granted, as a helper he benefits enormously from the foolish, bad-for-the-game generosity with which NBA refs reward floppers and late-arriving help defenders with bogus charging calls. But Nocioni excels as well at the legitimate aspects of defense. He and guards Kirk Hinrich and Chris Duhon are the pillars of a Bulls' D that, for a second straight season, held opponents to a lower field-goal percentage than did any other team."

    http://hoopshype.com/columns/nocioni_hans.htm

    It shows how good their defense really is. Not only defense, they can play very well offense too

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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    The Bulls need a shake up just as bad as we do. They had a horrible season last year and were expected to be top 5 in the East. Hinrich had a garbage season and many fans are upset with him. Nocioni? Who knows what happened to him. Everyone knows he can play, but for some reason they gave his minutes up after signing him to a long term contract.
    I don't know that the Bulls need a shakeup quite that badly. Tinsley has negative trade value. Daniels only real value is his expiring contract. The one player we're giving them who's going to significantly help them is Dunleavy he plays the same position as their best player (Deng). Look at the Bulls projected roster after this trade. They've got Gordon, Hughes, Sefolosha, Daniels, Dunleavy, and Deng all battling for minutes at the 2 or 3 spot. If Gordon leaves, maybe it makes a little more sense, but not a ton.
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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    I don't know that the Bulls need a shakeup quite that badly. Tinsley has negative trade value. Daniels only real value is his expiring contract. The one player we're giving them who's going to significantly help them is Dunleavy he plays the same position as their best player (Deng). Look at the Bulls projected roster after this trade. They've got Gordon, Hughes, Sefolosha, Daniels, Dunleavy, and Deng all battling for minutes at the 2 or 3 spot. If Gordon leaves, maybe it makes a little more sense, but not a ton.
    Deng and Gordon and unrestricted free agent and have kind of made it clear they dont want to remain Bulls by not signing their offer sheets in the beginning of the season

  13. #13

    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    While I think Hinrich would be perfect for Obie's system, it would take more than that to get him, even considering his down year. I think Granger or our first are too much, and most of our other tradeable assets are either duplicated (Foster/Noah) or simply not enough (Ike/S. Williams). I do agree that Tinsley has to go in that trade, if for no other reason than to give them a PG back. I just don't think we make good trade partners with Chicago unless we're sending out JO and also taking back Hughes or something.

    Personally, I think Mike D'Antoni will be coaching the Bulls next season, and God help us when that happens.

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    Deng and Gordon and unrestricted free agent and have kind of made it clear they dont want to remain Bulls by not signing their offer sheets in the beginning of the season
    not quite right. they haven't gotten offer sheets yet. what they turned down were extensions. this doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to be on the bulls, they just wanted more money.

    and it's moot anyway what deng and gordon want, because the bulls still hold their restricted rights (meaning they can match any offer). it might be possible that a team pries away gordon by overpaying, but it's difficult to imagine a scenario where the bulls let deng walk.

    i agree with mellifluous that the deal doesn't make sense to the bulls. i don't think nocioni fits on the pacers either - he's another twinner forward, and imo is a better interior defender than at the perimeter.

    a hinrich deal though, is another thing. he's not a great playmaker, but he can shoot and defend.

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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    2) Trade Shawne Williams and Harrison (S & T) to Portland for Frye.
    why frye? he hasn't played well since his rookie year. i wouldn't swap shawne for him...

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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Alot of what the Bulls are going to do depends on what happens with Deng and Gordon. It's likely one of them will go in a sign and trade. And what they can get in return will affect what they are willing to part with.

    I am intrigued by the idea of trying to get Gordon from them. He could develop into a Gilbert Arenas type PG if given time to play the position. He just hasn't gotten a chance to play much there due to Hinrich. Gordon sign and trade for O'neal could be a possibility if they would throw in Gooden, IMO.

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    Default Re: 2 Big Deals

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    why frye? he hasn't played well since his rookie year. i wouldn't swap shawne for him...
    Shawne is a good player, dont get me wrong but hes getting into to too much legal problems. In 2 years hes been arrested. We dont need that image no more, it was bad enough with Artest and Jackson; both good players but cuasing issues for the team

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