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Thread: Flopping

  1. #1
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    Default Flopping

    I was hoping there would be more to this but its not more than 2 sentences at the very end of the article.

    It does beg the question thou.... how?

    Would an offensive foul being called on the flopper be enough? or maybe a tech?

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colum...coverage_N.htm

    Billick and networks covering draft score big

    By Michael Hiestand, USA TODAY

    NEW YORK While NFL teams need years to figure out if they drafted well this weekend, the picks can already celebrate like Brian Billick.
    Fox will formally announce Monday that the ex-Baltimore Ravens coach, who debuted as a national TV analyst on the NFL Network's draft coverage, and didn't embarrass himself, will be a game analyst this season. He'll work both two and three-man booths, says Fox's Dan Bell, but his on-air partners haven't been set.

    Other draft winners: ESPN and the NFL's network, whose ratings for their simultaneous coverage presumably will rise because of a later draft start time this year and fewer minutes between picks.

    Both networks sometimes missed live coverage, as they aired ads, of Commissioner Roger Goodell announcing picks at the podium. Said NFL Network producer Eric Weinberger, amid the din of his production truck Saturday: "The speed of this has been wild."

    With the first round having shrunk from 6 hours, 8 minutes last year to 3:30, Goodell concluded Sunday on NFL Network it was "entertaining" and had "a great pace." (But in true NFL fashion, he says he couldn't conclude anything until he watched the tapes.)

    Eventually, however, it won't matter if anybody sees Goodell's actual envelope-opening. This year's late start allowed both networks to air four-hour lead-in shows buttoning down probable picks as if they'd seen exit polls. Said ESPN producer Seth Markman, just before the draft started Saturday: "It's like election coverage. We went on so early, it's like we're projecting states."

    The NFL notifies both network producers of picks about a minute before they're announced so they can cue up their highlight packages which, oddly, never show guys making bad plays although the on-air types aren't notified so their responses will seem natural. But with various closeups of players the top picks getting congratulatory phone calls before anything becomes official, sometimes there isn't much suspense.

    ESPN put cameras in about 10 prospects' homes, which at least produced some drama closeups of quarterbacks Brian Brohm and Chad Henne sweating it out until they went in the second round after the six players brought to the draft ended up the top six picks. (FYI: No. 2 pick Chris Long, son of Fox's Howie, will be a running subplot on Fox's NFL pregame show next season.)

    But if this year's draft wasn't exceptionally suspenseful, it had its usual idiosyncratic staples. There was ESPN's Mel Kiper showing his steely endurance. Said ESPN research chief Howie Schwab, on the set Saturday: "He's absolutely amazing he hasn't even (used the bathroom) at these in 20 years."

    And there was the sheer oddity of it all. The NFL Network's Rich Eisen noted, on-air to Goodell, that this is "the only business in America where a complete newcomer becomes the highest-paid (worker) in the history of the business he's joining."

    Said ESPN editor Rico Labbe, a Boston College player who made the Washington Redskins after being picked in the fourth round of the 1990 draft, as he edited tape in a trailer on the sidewalk outside the draft site: "There's a half a billion players on that stage."

    Smart:

    The ratings for golf's U.S. Open this summer will be big maybe even record-setting. How you know: NBC will formally announce today the first scheduled East Coast primetime weekend U.S. Open action.

    That's possible because play in La Jolla, Calif. will be in West Coast time. On Saturday, June 14, coverage is scheduled to go until 10 p.m. ET and to 9 p.m. ET Sunday.

    Time slots can be critical to how many people watch weekend events. The 2000 Open's fog-delayed Saturday action, sending coverage past 9 p.m. ET, produced the Open's highest-rated third round. The 2002 Open's rain-delayed Sunday action, lasting past 8:30 p.m. ET, drew the Open's highest-rated final-round rating ever.

    And this year's primetime Open might not end up as a one-shot wonder, since the 2010 and 2012 Opens will also be played in West Coast time. Says NBC Sports Chairman Dick Ebersol: "What a great way to spend Father's Day weekend, with the best golfers in the world in primetime."

    Flop:

    ABC analyst Jeff Van Gundy said Sunday the NBA league office has to stop "ridiculous" flopping: "That's their job, that's why they're paying those guys millions. ESPN's E:60 show Tuesday examines horse cloning.

  2. #2
    Dood. Ownagedood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flopping

    Lol, at first I thought you said flopping just to get ppl to come here.. But then I saw what you were talking about.

    Flopping isn't a big deal.. Refs just have to decide what is the best call.

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    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flopping

    This should be in the Colts/NFL forum.

    Well, everything up to the last two sentences...lol

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    Default Re: Flopping

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    This should be in the Colts/NFL forum.

    Well, everything up to the last two sentences...lol
    Lol, that's what I was thinking.. I was like, why is this posted here and under flopping..?? Then I saw the last two sentences.. But still.. lol

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    One man show ajbry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flopping

    The only way would be to ban all the Europeans...

    Unfortunately, flopping is advantageous to the defensive player and the referees and league office have set the precedent that in some cases flopping is acceptable. It has also led to other trends in defensive strategy - how often do you see an adequately skilled defensive player try to take a charge rather than actually contesting the shot if contact might be made?

    It's going to take a concerted effort to get rid of flopping, just like their recent emphasis on traveling and palming.

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    Default Re: Flopping

    Its gettin ridiculous, you see it on almost every play nowadays.

    I liek the idea of a Tech being called, but then it could become just anpther bad call.

    So how about they do it like delays of games.

    A warning, and then a tech?>
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Flopping

    I say whoever flops gets to have a flagrant from the opposing team. Make the sport an actual contact sport and not some prissy league.

    Or God forbid I use soccer for anything, slap them with the NBA version of a yellow card.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Flopping

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbry View Post
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    The only way would be to ban all the Europeans...

    Unfortunately, flopping is advantageous to the defensive player and the referees and league office have set the precedent that in some cases flopping is acceptable. It has also led to other trends in defensive strategy - how often do you see an adequately skilled defensive player try to take a charge rather than actually contesting the shot if contact might be made?

    It's going to take a concerted effort to get rid of flopping, just like their recent emphasis on traveling and palming.
    ajbry, I would say that offensive players flop just like defensive players do. I really don't understand your point of taking a charge as a flop. Charges are not flops unless your talking about when someone is posted up and they "act" like they got pushed out of postion from the opposing player. Then I could see your point.

    This is one of the reason I like college. Its alot more physical with less talented players.

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    Member tdubb03's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flopping

    I agree that it's become MUCH too rampant. I don't know about making it a technical. Maybe just treat it as a normal personal foul, but use the same type of rule they do with techs. Fined for every one (I think it's $1k?), then when you reach a certain amount, we'll say 10 in this case, you get suspended a game.

    Of course this is another "open to referee discretion" type call, opening the door to even more favoritism arguments.

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    Member Taterhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flopping

    I don't mind a timely flop at in the closing minutes of a close game if it works.

    What I would like to see is an intentional foul called. 1 foul shot + the ball out of bounds.

    Same would apply for the PJ Brown special. Grabbing a guy around the waist and dragging him to the floor looking for a charge.

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    Default Re: Flopping

    Quote Originally Posted by tdubb03 View Post
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    I agree that it's become MUCH too rampant. I don't know about making it a technical. Maybe just treat it as a normal personal foul, but use the same type of rule they do with techs. Fined for every one (I think it's $1k?), then when you reach a certain amount, we'll say 10 in this case, you get suspended a game.

    Of course this is another "open to referee discretion" type call, opening the door to even more favoritism arguments.
    That's how I would do it. It'd be very difficult to distinguish during the game. But I think you could have someone watch every game afterwards and determine all the flops throughout a game, and fine for each flop (going up incrementally, similar to the way they do for technicals). Then once they reached a certain number (I'd put it at much higher than 10), suspend them. That would definitely help eliminate it in my mind.
    UncleBuck:

    "See how stupid those fans sound complaining about the officials. That is one reason why I hate when Pacers fans complain about the refs - does not come across well at all, no matter the merit. "

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    Default Re: Flopping

    I like the idea of treating it "somewhat" like delay of game: Give a warning call with no penalty, then the next one carries a penalty.

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flopping

    Once again, if the refs were smart enough to be able to distinguish an obvious flop from a standard foul, there would be no problem.

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    Default Re: Flopping

    thats a noteworthy clarification, shade. Thanks.
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    Default Re: Flopping

    I think a 'play on' with the defender's butt still on the floor is about all we can hope for....not talking about the pull-down flops of course.

    Let it go for what it is...a failed defensive move. Any fouls, flagrants, etc, and you break the tempo of the game even more, and the calls would be at least as subjective as a charge call, without the half-circle to offer any guidance.
    Last edited by kester99; 04-28-2008 at 11:47 PM.
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    Default Re: Flopping

    If I were in charge of NBA rules. I would like the Refs to call a foul as best they can - tell them to try and overlook the flopping. But then if someone does obviousl flop, then call a tech on them. But also that does not mean that a flopper cannot or will not get the foul called on the other guy - sometime it is warranted - just because a guy flops does not mean he was fouled.

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    Default Re: Flopping

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbry View Post
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    The only way would be to ban all the Europeans...
    how is banning me from PD going to help change things?

    they should just take on the rules from International soccer...if you flop - you get a yellow card or basically punished for it. Of course just as you miss out on other foul calls...there would be times when a person didn't really flop but called a flop...But at the very least this will become one of those "offfensive fouls/blocking foul"...as in which way should the call have went?!?!

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    Default Re: Flopping

    I think the refs should learn the difference and just not call it. Then if the guys complain too much about not getting the call on the flop give them a quick t. To stop the flow of the game to address it is the worst thing you could do. it seems the refs are doing a pretty fair job of ignoring the flops, and even not giving legit calls to the "known" floppers because of thier reputation. The non call when Shaq wacked Ginobili at the end of game 2 is an example.

    Flopping has been around for a long time, just ask Reggie. The only reason it is an issue now is because Shaq got burned by his own reputation of plowing over guys with no regard to the rules. Its the same thing with the Hack a Shaq.

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    Default Re: Flopping

    I think we're all missing the bigger question here - Do we really want to live in a world that condones horse cloning?

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    Default Re: Flopping

    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreKen View Post
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    I think the refs should learn the difference and just not call it.

    The point I was trying to make in my post is that even though a guy flops often times a foul is still warranted. So if the refs just do not call it, the guy who committed the foul is being rewarded. So that is why I think the fairest way to do it, is for the ref to try and see through the flop, make the correct foul or non-call - but then always call a technical on the flopper. No player will want to get thrown out of the game by being called for two T's for flopping more than once.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 04-29-2008 at 10:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Flopping

    I think I'd start with post-game-review penalties. Fines and even cumulative points leading to suspensions for the most egregious violations. I think the only way to discern a real flop is from multiple angles, and refs simply don't have that ability unless they stop and discuss it after every call.

    That wouldn't help individual games but it would slowly stop the worst offenders, if nothing else because they'd be missing some games.

    Now - how many games do ya think Reggie would have been missing based on this?
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    Member SycamoreKen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flopping

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The point I was trying to make in my post is that even though a guy flops often times a foul is still warranted. So if the refs just does not call it, the guy who committed the foul is being rewarded. So that is why I think the fairest way to do it, is for the ref to try and see through the flop, make the correct foul or non-call - but then always call a technical on the flopper. No player will want to get thrown out of the game by being called for two T's for flopping more than once.
    If a foul is warented, then the flopping is irrelevent. If you issue a technical when there is no foul, then that stops the flow of the game for no reason since the phantom foul was not called.

    I have seen flops on picks set. Will those be called as well? What about an offensive player that over reacts to a foul? Does this really affect the game that much that it has to be taken out of the hands of the officials to control?

  23. #23
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flopping

    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreKen View Post
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    If a foul is warented, then the flopping is irrelevent. If you issue a technical when there is no foul, then that stops the flow of the game for no reason since the phantom foul was not called.

    I have seen flops on picks set. Will those be called as well? What about an offensive player that over reacts to a foul? Does this really affect the game that much that it has to be taken out of the hands of the officials to control?
    Yes, but by calling a T everytime a player flops, flopping would stop in the NBA and isn't that the goal.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Flopping

    Personally I'm for a reduction in the amount of blocking/charging calls all around. If these types of fouls weren't getting called so often, guys would stop flopping so much.

    As for penalties for flopping, since most unsuccessful flops lead directly to an easy bucket, I think that's penalty enough.
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    Member SycamoreKen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flopping

    Why is there such a concern with something that isn't aginst the rules rather than the blatant disregard to things such as traveling and carrying the ball? Flopping is a non issue in that it has been around for so long that it really doesn't matter. Vlade was the king long before the current group and even the Pistons had a couple guys that took advantage of it.

    What bothers me more is the delayed foul call where it only happens if the basket is missed. Not to mention phantom calls in favor of the offensive player, which happen more regularly than flop calls.

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