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Thread: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

  1. #26
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    When the shot clock (I'm having a flashback, I learned to generally avoid typing that word) shows 1 second left, that means there is at most 1 second left on the shot clock, but there also could be only .1 of a second left.

    The refs will often check with the scorers table on out of bounds plays when the shot clock reads 1 - so they know exactly how much time is really on the shot clock - and that is why they will often wave off a shot, because they know there may only be .3 seconds left

  2. #27
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    I think it goes like this. On the left is the actual time, on the right is what the shot clock displays:

    24.0 24
    23.9 24
    23.8 24
    23.7 24
    23.6 24
    23.5 24
    23.4 24
    23.3 24
    23.2 24
    23.1 24
    23.0 23 <---
    22.9 22
    22.8 22
    ...
    2.0 02 <---
    1.9 02
    1.8 02
    1.7 02
    1.6 02
    1.5 02
    1.4 02
    1.3 02
    1.2 02
    1.1 02
    1.0 01 <---
    0.9 01
    0.8 01
    0.7 01
    0.6 01
    0.5 01
    0.4 01
    0.3 01
    0.2 01
    0.1 01
    0.0 00 <--- (HORN SOUNDS)

  3. #28
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Cuban is right. To use his example:
    The shot clock was showing 24 secs while the game clock was at 23.6 seconds and counting down.
    He implies that the shot clock is not yet turned off. How can that be with less than 24 full seconds left on the game clock?

    Simple. The 24 you see isn't the FULL amount left, it's the rounded up amount (and not a .5 or greater, but a "ceiling" style rounding that even .1 will push up). So the shot clock SHOWS 24, but this means perhaps only 23.3 seconds left. That 4 is about to become a 3 in just .3 seconds while the game clock is .6 seconds away from changing seconds.

    The shot clock will sound with .3 left on the game clock, as it should. But at some point it will LOOK like a "full" 1 is left when the game clock is sub 1.0, implying to viewers that the shot clock should be off and deferring to the game clock.


    In short - the shot clock shows you that SOME AMOUNT of that second is left, but probably not the full amount. It's ROUNDED UP. The game clock isn't. Thus the occassional odd situation. It's an aesthetics thing because fans might balk at seeing a shot count when 0 is on the shot clock, and they for whatever reasons don't want to get into the decimal spot with the shot clock.

    BTW the refs should know that if the Shot Clock is on even though it looks like it shouldn't be that this is the case. Simple enough to connect the clocks and keep the shot clock off when it actually should be. Measuring to .1 isn't some challenge of course, other than the person pushing the button to start time/reset possession or shot clock status.


    The Pacers got a rebound with and called timeout with 24.1 seconds left.

    JO's game winning shot left his fingertips with 0.3 seconds left, but the shot clock clearly showed "00."

    Instead of just looking at the stupid shot clock, the officials reasoned that if the shot clock started at 24.1, their eyes were obviously playing tricks on them and it wasn't a violation.

    What they didn't take into account, as Mal stated, was that the shot clock was not a FULL 24 seconds on the inbound pass. Since it takes a minimum of 0.3 seconds to take posession and call timeout, there was ACTUALLY 23.7 seconds on the shot clock, even though the clock read "24."
    You have to admit that it's a confusing and counter-intuitive situation. At least they took the time to try and reason it out. And in this case they were fooled because the 24.1 implied that the clock should be on still and threw them off the track on it being the situation discussed in this thread where you would expect the clock to be off.

    Of course my engineer thinking would have wound tape to look at the GAME CLOCK when the SHOT CLOCK turned to 1 in slo-mo. Then you'd know for sure the difference even if you didn't quite believe the light/horn for some reason. At turning 1 they'd see 1.4 or 1.3 and know the shot clock had control of the situation, even if it did say 1 when the game clock said 0.8.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 04-22-2008 at 12:16 PM.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    The way I interpreted what Cuban was saying:

    (Like Mal's example, actual clock time as it is being counted in the Left
    column, and corresponding time being displayed in the Right column.)


    24.9000 24
    24.8 24
    24.7 24
    24.6 24
    24.5 24
    24.4 24
    24.3 24
    24.2 24
    24.1 24
    24.0 24
    23.9999 23 <---
    23.8 23
    ...
    2.0 02
    1.9999 01 <---
    1.8 01
    1.7 01
    1.6 01
    1.5 01
    1.4 01
    1.3 01
    1.2 01
    1.1 01
    1.0 01
    0.9999 00 <---
    0.9000 00 <--- Shot Clock Violation Buzzer Sounds

    From 0.9999 to 0.9000 (.1 seconds for all reasonable intents and purposes)
    "00" will be displayed before the buzzer sounds.

    Is this how it works?
    Last edited by RamBo_Lamar; 04-22-2008 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Addition

  5. #30
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    I need a drink.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  6. #31
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    1.1 02
    So even though there's only 1.1 seconds on the game clock, the shot clock will say "2." Which means there will, in the abstract, be more time on the shot clock than the game clock. Which is exactly what Cuban is saying.
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  7. #32
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Cuban is right. To use his example:

    He implies that the shot clock is not yet turned off. How can that be with less than 24 full seconds left on the game clock?

    Simple. The 24 you see isn't the FULL amount left, it's the rounded up amount (and not a .5 or greater, but a "ceiling" style rounding that even .1 will push up). So the shot clock SHOWS 24, but this means perhaps only 23.3 seconds left. That 4 is about to become a 3 in just .3 seconds while the game clock is .6 seconds away from changing seconds.
    Seth, that's not what Cubes is actually saying. When the clock shows 24 you're saying that it could be anywhere from 24.0-23.1, while Cubes is saying that the range would be from 24.9-24.0.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    So even though there's only 1.1 seconds on the game clock, the shot clock will say "2." Which means there will, in the abstract, be more time on the shot clock than the game clock. Which is exactly what Cuban is saying.
    Yes, it's just that Cubes is likely wrong in his assumption about how the clocks are "programmed." He is insisting that the clocks round down to the displayed whole number, instead of rounding up. There actually isn't a difference (at all) between the two in terms of time elapsed, but he's more than likely wrong in trying to make the distinction. There's not a whole lot of sense in counting from 24.9 - 0.9 when you could just count from 24.0 to 0.0.

    Quote Originally Posted by RamBo_Lamar View Post
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    The way I interpreted what Cuban was saying:

    (Like Mal's example, actual clock time as it is being counted in the Left
    column, and corresponding time being displayed in the Right column.)


    24.9000 24
    24.8 24
    24.7 24
    24.6 24
    24.5 24
    24.4 24
    24.3 24
    24.2 24
    24.1 24
    24.0 24
    23.9999 23 <---
    23.8 23
    ...
    2.0 02
    1.9999 01 <---
    1.8 01
    1.7 01
    1.6 01
    1.5 01
    1.4 01
    1.3 01
    1.2 01
    1.1 01
    1.0 01
    0.9999 00 <---
    0.9000 00 <--- Shot Clock Violation Buzzer Sounds

    From 0.9999 to 0.9000 (.1 seconds for all reasonable intents and purposes)
    "00" will be displayed before the buzzer sounds.

    Is this how it works?
    You mapped this out wrong. Cuban describes the change from 24 to 23 as occurring when the clock turns to 23.9. That is, just as the 23.9-23.8 time interval begins. You've got this change occurring 0.001 seconds after the 24.0-23.9 time interval begins. If you look closely, you've actually shortchanged your first whole "second," as it is only 9.001 seconds in duration. This is where your confusion is coming from.
    Last edited by SoupIsGood; 04-22-2008 at 02:07 PM.
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  8. #33
    dennaB Twes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by grace View Post
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    Does it really matter if all the clocks are the same?

    Amen!

  9. #34
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    This is so meta.

  10. #35
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I still remember being at that game and telling all the pacers fans around me that JO's shot should not count - it was the wrong call. Who knew that one bad call that went in the pacers favor would be the last break the Pacers ever got


    Last edited by rexnom; 04-22-2008 at 03:21 PM.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood View Post
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    Seth, that's not what Cubes is actually saying. When the clock shows 24 you're saying that it could be anywhere from 24.0-23.1, while Cubes is saying that the range would be from 24.9-24.0.



    Yes, it's just that Cubes is likely wrong in his assumption about how the clocks are "programmed." He is insisting that the clocks round down to the displayed whole number, instead of rounding up. There actually isn't a difference (at all) between the two in terms of time elapsed, but he's more than likely wrong in trying to make the distinction. There's not a whole lot of sense in counting from 24.9 - 0.9 when you could just count from 24.0 to 0.0.



    You mapped this out wrong. Cuban describes the change from 24 to 23 as occurring when the clock turns to 23.9. That is, just as the 23.9-23.8 time interval begins. You've got this change occurring 0.001 seconds after the 24.0-23.9 time interval begins. If you look closely, you've actually shortchanged your first whole "second," as it is only 9.001 seconds in duration. This is where your confusion is coming from.

    Ok, I see what you are saying. Then it should be like this:


    24.9 24
    24.8 24
    24.7 24
    24.6 24
    24.5 24
    24.4 24
    24.3 24
    24.2 24
    24.1 24
    24.0 24
    23.9 23 <---
    23.8 23
    ...
    2.0 02
    1.9 01 <---
    1.8 01
    1.7 01
    1.6 01
    1.5 01
    1.4 01
    1.3 01
    1.2 01
    1.1 01
    1.0 01
    0.9 00 <--- Shot Clock Violation Buzzer Sounds

    Thanks for pointing that out Soup.


    So for what Cuban described to take place, there would need to be a
    scenario such as the following to occur:

    1.) 24.4 seconds left at the end of a quarter, and team gets ball with a fresh shot clock.

    2.) The ball is inbounded, and a whistle is immediately blown after which .8
    seconds have elapsed.

    3.) While the game clock may now be showing 23.6 seconds, the shot clock
    counted internally from 24.9 down to 24.1, thus not yet having toggled to
    the next second down (23).

    This would mean that if it came down to the very end of the quarter where
    the game clock hit 0.0, the shot clock would still display 01 for .5 seconds
    after the game clock expired.

    Right? (not that it would matter at that point )
    Last edited by RamBo_Lamar; 04-23-2008 at 09:57 AM.

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