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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Something I did not know about the shot clock...

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  • #16
    Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    I see what he (Cuban) is saying, and it does make perfect sense.

    It is that way so the shot clock can display counting down 24 seconds and
    have the shot clock buzzer sound at the moment the shot clock turns to 0,
    rather than have 0 displayed for .9 seconds before the shot clock buzzer
    sounds.

    The game clock takes precedence anyway, so it's nothing to really split hairs
    over.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

      Originally posted by Kstat View Post
      If that were true you'd be hearing the buzzer go off 0.9 seconds after the shot clock hits 00, which anybody that's been to an NBA game will tell you is totally untrue.
      When the shot clock hits 00 (changes from 01 to 00), 24 seconds have transpired (from 24.9 to 0.9). So the buzzer sounds as soon as 24 seconds have transpired.
      ANDY: I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy winning or get busy losing.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

        Originally posted by pacerwaala View Post
        When the shot clock hits 00 (changes from 01 to 00), 24 seconds have transpired (from 24.9 to 0.9). So the buzzer sounds as soon as 24 seconds have transpired.
        OK, you're splitting the thinnest hair in the history of the universe.

        saying the clock goes from 24.9 to 0.9 is not at all different than saying the clock goes from 24.0 to 0.0. It's the same damn thing.

        It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

        Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
        Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
        NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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        • #19
          Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

          Originally posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
          The only thing that holds that to memory is that being J.O.'s only game winner that I can remember. If I'm missing one, let me know.
          Define "game-winner." If you mean "shot that wins the game as time expires" then Mike Jordan only had 8.

          http://www.nba.com/jordan/game_winners.html

          82games says Jermaine has 2 (although they use a different definition), as of Feb 2006:

          http://www.82games.com/random12.htm
          Last edited by Anthem; 04-21-2008, 11:33 PM.
          This space for rent.

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          • #20
            Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

            Originally posted by Kstat View Post
            saying the clock goes from 24.9 to 0.9 is not at all different than saying the clock goes from 24.0 to 0.0. It's the same damn thing.
            I think that's the point.
            This space for rent.

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            • #21
              Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

              It's the same difference, but it makes no sense to have it "secretly" run from 24.9 to 0.9. There's no point in doing that when you can simply have it run from 24.0 to 0.0.

              To use some hyperbole, it'd be like running the clock for each quarter of basketball from 21:00.0 to 09:00.0 and stopping there. Technically it's still 12 minutes, but it's wacky and unnecessary to do it that way.

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              • #22
                Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

                Originally posted by Mal View Post
                It's the same difference, but it makes no sense to have it "secretly" run from 24.9 to 0.9. There's no point in doing that when you can simply have it run from 24.0 to 0.0.

                To use some hyperbole, it'd be like running the clock for each quarter of basketball from 21:00.0 to 09:00.0 and stopping there. Technically it's still 12 minutes, but it's wacky and unnecessary to do it that way.
                Mal, I see what you are saying.

                But since the actual shot clock display does not show the 1/10s (0.x) of
                seconds, then as it ran out it would be sitting on 0.x for 1 second before
                the buzzer sounds if it was how you describe.

                The intent is for the buzzer to sound at the moment the timer display changes
                from 1 to 0, rather than displaying 0 for a second before buzzing.

                The player who glances up at the shot clock isn't going to have time to process
                tenths of seconds ticking off anyway - all he knows is that he must get the shot
                off before zero is displayed. And it's probably to make things simpler for the Refs
                too.
                Last edited by RamBo_Lamar; 04-22-2008, 01:22 AM.

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                • #23
                  Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

                  If the Shot clock started off at 24 (aka 23.9999999999999999999999) then we would never see the 24. The display would start on 23. I'm with Cuban (and RamBo Lamar) on the 24.9. And like Cuban said, the buzzer sounds at .9 just when the display clicks to zero. That leaves a total of 24 seconds. It may seem silly but it gets the 24 seconds across.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

                    Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                    Oh, I know that rule very clearly, Mal....

                    The infamous Jermaine O'Neal buzzer beater 5 years ago that took the refs 18 minutes to make the wrong call is still fresh in my memory.
                    I still remember being at that game and telling all the pacers fans around me that JO's shot should not count - it was the wrong call. Who knew that one bad call that went in the pacers favor would be the last break the Pacers ever got

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

                      Actually, it wouldn't be the exactly the same moment the clock switched from
                      1 to 0 that the buzzer would sound - the 0 would be displayed for .1 second
                      before the buzzer sounded.


                      But for the sake of conveying the concept, "at the same moment" is close
                      enough.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

                        When the shot clock (I'm having a flashback, I learned to generally avoid typing that word) shows 1 second left, that means there is at most 1 second left on the shot clock, but there also could be only .1 of a second left.

                        The refs will often check with the scorers table on out of bounds plays when the shot clock reads 1 - so they know exactly how much time is really on the shot clock - and that is why they will often wave off a shot, because they know there may only be .3 seconds left

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

                          I think it goes like this. On the left is the actual time, on the right is what the shot clock displays:

                          24.0 24
                          23.9 24
                          23.8 24
                          23.7 24
                          23.6 24
                          23.5 24
                          23.4 24
                          23.3 24
                          23.2 24
                          23.1 24
                          23.0 23 <---
                          22.9 22
                          22.8 22
                          ...
                          2.0 02 <---
                          1.9 02
                          1.8 02
                          1.7 02
                          1.6 02
                          1.5 02
                          1.4 02
                          1.3 02
                          1.2 02
                          1.1 02
                          1.0 01 <---
                          0.9 01
                          0.8 01
                          0.7 01
                          0.6 01
                          0.5 01
                          0.4 01
                          0.3 01
                          0.2 01
                          0.1 01
                          0.0 00 <--- (HORN SOUNDS)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

                            Cuban is right. To use his example:
                            The shot clock was showing 24 secs while the game clock was at 23.6 seconds and counting down.
                            He implies that the shot clock is not yet turned off. How can that be with less than 24 full seconds left on the game clock?

                            Simple. The 24 you see isn't the FULL amount left, it's the rounded up amount (and not a .5 or greater, but a "ceiling" style rounding that even .1 will push up). So the shot clock SHOWS 24, but this means perhaps only 23.3 seconds left. That 4 is about to become a 3 in just .3 seconds while the game clock is .6 seconds away from changing seconds.

                            The shot clock will sound with .3 left on the game clock, as it should. But at some point it will LOOK like a "full" 1 is left when the game clock is sub 1.0, implying to viewers that the shot clock should be off and deferring to the game clock.


                            In short - the shot clock shows you that SOME AMOUNT of that second is left, but probably not the full amount. It's ROUNDED UP. The game clock isn't. Thus the occassional odd situation. It's an aesthetics thing because fans might balk at seeing a shot count when 0 is on the shot clock, and they for whatever reasons don't want to get into the decimal spot with the shot clock.

                            BTW the refs should know that if the Shot Clock is on even though it looks like it shouldn't be that this is the case. Simple enough to connect the clocks and keep the shot clock off when it actually should be. Measuring to .1 isn't some challenge of course, other than the person pushing the button to start time/reset possession or shot clock status.


                            The Pacers got a rebound with and called timeout with 24.1 seconds left.

                            JO's game winning shot left his fingertips with 0.3 seconds left, but the shot clock clearly showed "00."

                            Instead of just looking at the stupid shot clock, the officials reasoned that if the shot clock started at 24.1, their eyes were obviously playing tricks on them and it wasn't a violation.

                            What they didn't take into account, as Mal stated, was that the shot clock was not a FULL 24 seconds on the inbound pass. Since it takes a minimum of 0.3 seconds to take posession and call timeout, there was ACTUALLY 23.7 seconds on the shot clock, even though the clock read "24."
                            You have to admit that it's a confusing and counter-intuitive situation. At least they took the time to try and reason it out. And in this case they were fooled because the 24.1 implied that the clock should be on still and threw them off the track on it being the situation discussed in this thread where you would expect the clock to be off.

                            Of course my engineer thinking would have wound tape to look at the GAME CLOCK when the SHOT CLOCK turned to 1 in slo-mo. Then you'd know for sure the difference even if you didn't quite believe the light/horn for some reason. At turning 1 they'd see 1.4 or 1.3 and know the shot clock had control of the situation, even if it did say 1 when the game clock said 0.8.
                            Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 04-22-2008, 12:16 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

                              The way I interpreted what Cuban was saying:

                              (Like Mal's example, actual clock time as it is being counted in the Left
                              column, and corresponding time being displayed in the Right column.)


                              24.9000 24
                              24.8 24
                              24.7 24
                              24.6 24
                              24.5 24
                              24.4 24
                              24.3 24
                              24.2 24
                              24.1 24
                              24.0 24
                              23.9999 23 <---
                              23.8 23
                              ...
                              2.0 02
                              1.9999 01 <---
                              1.8 01
                              1.7 01
                              1.6 01
                              1.5 01
                              1.4 01
                              1.3 01
                              1.2 01
                              1.1 01
                              1.0 01
                              0.9999 00 <---
                              0.9000 00 <--- Shot Clock Violation Buzzer Sounds

                              From 0.9999 to 0.9000 (.1 seconds for all reasonable intents and purposes)
                              "00" will be displayed before the buzzer sounds.

                              Is this how it works?
                              Last edited by RamBo_Lamar; 04-22-2008, 01:15 PM. Reason: Addition

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

                                I need a drink.
                                “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

                                “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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