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Thread: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    http://www.blogmaverick.com/2008/04/21/an-nba-fun-fact/

    Thought about putting it in the playoffs thread, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's given up on trying to keep up with that monster.
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    I understand that he should know better than me, but I seriously believe he's mistaken.

    As I understand it, the shot clock represents the displayed number of seconds left at X.0 .

    Meaning 24 = 24.0 seconds, and when it changes to display "23", that happens not at 23.9 or 23.8, 23.7, 23.6, ..., 23.1, but at exactly 23.0.

    That's why the shot block buzzer sounds IMMEDIATELY upon displaying "0" because it doesn't show "0" until it's actually 0.0 seconds left. It only changes to "1" at 1.0 seconds.

    I'm very confident about this.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    I understand that he should know better than me, but I seriously believe he's mistaken.

    As I understand it, the shot clock represents the displayed number of seconds left at X.0 .

    Meaning 24 = 24.0 seconds, and when it changes to display "23", that happens not at 23.9 or 23.8, 23.7, 23.6, ..., 23.1, but at exactly 23.0.

    That's why the shot block buzzer sounds IMMEDIATELY upon displaying "0" because it doesn't show "0" until it's actually 0.0 seconds left. It only changes to "1" at 1.0 seconds.

    I'm very confident about this.
    Oh, I know that rule very clearly, Mal....

    The infamous Jermaine O'Neal buzzer beater 5 years ago that took the refs 18 minutes to make the wrong call is still fresh in my memory.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Oh, I know that rule very clearly, Mal....

    The infamous Jermaine O'Neal buzzer beater 5 years ago that took the refs 18 minutes to make the wrong call is still fresh in my memory.
    Do I have it right, or does Cuban have it right?

    Surely a 24 second shot clock isn't actually closer to 25 seconds? Besides, his explanation doesn't fit because when the shot clock hit's 0 the buzzer immediately sounds, yet he suggests when it hits 0 it's at 0.9.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Seeing this thread title reminded me of UncleBuck's most famous typo ever.

    Anybody got a link? Searching doesn't show much.
    Last edited by Anthem; 04-21-2008 at 08:12 PM.
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Do I have it right, or does Cuban have it right?

    Surely a 24 second shot clock isn't actually closer to 25 seconds? Besides, his explanation doesn't fit because when the shot clock hit's 0 the buzzer immediately sounds, yet he suggests when it hits 0 it's at 0.9.
    No, you have it right.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Surely a 24 second shot clock isn't actually closer to 25 seconds?
    That's not what Cuban is saying.
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Surely a 24 second shot clock isn't actually closer to 25 seconds?
    Does it really matter if all the clocks are the same?

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Oh, I know that rule very clearly, Mal....

    The infamous Jermaine O'Neal buzzer beater 5 years ago that took the refs 18 minutes to make the wrong call is still fresh in my memory.
    Jesus, I forgot about that game. Man...I miss our rivalry...I can't believe that was five years ago.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by grace View Post
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    Does it really matter if all the clocks are the same?
    That wouldn't be what would bother me. If you're going to have 24.9 seconds, go ahead and round it to 25 and be done with it.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    That's not what Cuban is saying.
    He did say it starts at 24.9, correct? 24.9 is closer to 25.0 than 24.0.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Until I hear otherwise, I'm just going to say that Cuban is wrong on top of other things.

    That's why it is a 24 second shot clock.

    Kstat, your right....it did take that official's crew 18 mins to blow that call. The only thing that holds that to memory is that being J.O.'s only game winner that I can remember. If I'm missing one, let me know.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    Kstat, your right....it did take that official's crew 18 mins to blow that call. The only thing that holds that to memory is that being J.O.'s only game winner that I can remember. If I'm missing one, let me know.
    The scenario played out thus:

    The Pacers got a rebound with and called timeout with 24.1 seconds left.

    JO's game winning shot left his fingertips with 0.3 seconds left, but the shot clock clearly showed "00."

    Instead of just looking at the stupid shot clock, the officials reasoned that if the shot clock started at 24.1, their eyes were obviously playing tricks on them and it wasn't a violation.

    What they didn't take into account, as Mal stated, was that the shot clock was not a FULL 24 seconds on the inbound pass. Since it takes a minimum of 0.3 seconds to take posession and call timeout, there was ACTUALLY 23.7 seconds on the shot clock, even though the clock read "24."

    Of course, nobody with a brain was paying attention that night, and after 18 minutes they made the wrong damn call.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    I understand that he should know better than me, but I seriously believe he's mistaken.

    As I understand it, the shot clock represents the displayed number of seconds left at X.0 .

    Meaning 24 = 24.0 seconds, and when it changes to display "23", that happens not at 23.9 or 23.8, 23.7, 23.6, ..., 23.1, but at exactly 23.0.

    That's why the shot block buzzer sounds IMMEDIATELY upon displaying "0" because it doesn't show "0" until it's actually 0.0 seconds left. It only changes to "1" at 1.0 seconds.

    I'm very confident about this.
    Mal

    I think, internally,the shot clock counts from 24.9 to 0.9. The alternative to this would be to put tenths of seconds on the shot clock. But what we see is round numbers on the shot clock (24,23,22,....09,08,0,....02,01).

    Regards

    Pacerwaala

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by pacerwaala View Post
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    Mal

    I think, internally,the shot clock counts from 24.9 to 0.9. The alternative to this would be to put tenths of seconds on the shot clock. But what we see is round numbers on the shot clock (24,23,22,....09,08,0,....02,01).

    Regards

    Pacerwaala
    If that were true you'd be hearing the buzzer go off 0.9 seconds after the shot clock hits 00, which anybody that's been to an NBA game will tell you is totally untrue.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    I see what he (Cuban) is saying, and it does make perfect sense.

    It is that way so the shot clock can display counting down 24 seconds and
    have the shot clock buzzer sound at the moment the shot clock turns to 0,
    rather than have 0 displayed for .9 seconds before the shot clock buzzer
    sounds.

    The game clock takes precedence anyway, so it's nothing to really split hairs
    over.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If that were true you'd be hearing the buzzer go off 0.9 seconds after the shot clock hits 00, which anybody that's been to an NBA game will tell you is totally untrue.
    When the shot clock hits 00 (changes from 01 to 00), 24 seconds have transpired (from 24.9 to 0.9). So the buzzer sounds as soon as 24 seconds have transpired.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by pacerwaala View Post
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    When the shot clock hits 00 (changes from 01 to 00), 24 seconds have transpired (from 24.9 to 0.9). So the buzzer sounds as soon as 24 seconds have transpired.
    OK, you're splitting the thinnest hair in the history of the universe.

    saying the clock goes from 24.9 to 0.9 is not at all different than saying the clock goes from 24.0 to 0.0. It's the same damn thing.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    The only thing that holds that to memory is that being J.O.'s only game winner that I can remember. If I'm missing one, let me know.
    Define "game-winner." If you mean "shot that wins the game as time expires" then Mike Jordan only had 8.

    http://www.nba.com/jordan/game_winners.html

    82games says Jermaine has 2 (although they use a different definition), as of Feb 2006:

    http://www.82games.com/random12.htm
    Last edited by Anthem; 04-21-2008 at 11:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    saying the clock goes from 24.9 to 0.9 is not at all different than saying the clock goes from 24.0 to 0.0. It's the same damn thing.
    I think that's the point.
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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    It's the same difference, but it makes no sense to have it "secretly" run from 24.9 to 0.9. There's no point in doing that when you can simply have it run from 24.0 to 0.0.

    To use some hyperbole, it'd be like running the clock for each quarter of basketball from 21:00.0 to 09:00.0 and stopping there. Technically it's still 12 minutes, but it's wacky and unnecessary to do it that way.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    It's the same difference, but it makes no sense to have it "secretly" run from 24.9 to 0.9. There's no point in doing that when you can simply have it run from 24.0 to 0.0.

    To use some hyperbole, it'd be like running the clock for each quarter of basketball from 21:00.0 to 09:00.0 and stopping there. Technically it's still 12 minutes, but it's wacky and unnecessary to do it that way.
    Mal, I see what you are saying.

    But since the actual shot clock display does not show the 1/10s (0.x) of
    seconds, then as it ran out it would be sitting on 0.x for 1 second before
    the buzzer sounds if it was how you describe.

    The intent is for the buzzer to sound at the moment the timer display changes
    from 1 to 0, rather than displaying 0 for a second before buzzing.

    The player who glances up at the shot clock isn't going to have time to process
    tenths of seconds ticking off anyway - all he knows is that he must get the shot
    off before zero is displayed. And it's probably to make things simpler for the Refs
    too.
    Last edited by RamBo_Lamar; 04-22-2008 at 01:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    If the Shot clock started off at 24 (aka 23.9999999999999999999999) then we would never see the 24. The display would start on 23. I'm with Cuban (and RamBo Lamar) on the 24.9. And like Cuban said, the buzzer sounds at .9 just when the display clicks to zero. That leaves a total of 24 seconds. It may seem silly but it gets the 24 seconds across.

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Oh, I know that rule very clearly, Mal....

    The infamous Jermaine O'Neal buzzer beater 5 years ago that took the refs 18 minutes to make the wrong call is still fresh in my memory.
    I still remember being at that game and telling all the pacers fans around me that JO's shot should not count - it was the wrong call. Who knew that one bad call that went in the pacers favor would be the last break the Pacers ever got

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    Default Re: Something I did not know about the shot clock...

    Actually, it wouldn't be the exactly the same moment the clock switched from
    1 to 0 that the buzzer would sound - the 0 would be displayed for .1 second
    before the buzzer sounded.


    But for the sake of conveying the concept, "at the same moment" is close
    enough.

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