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Thread: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

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    Default What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Just curious what everyone is looking for from Bird this offseason. Not only who you would like to see us draft, but also what positions you would like to see him upgrade and how you would like to see them be upgraded.

    I'm still undecided, but I know many of you probably have what you would like to see mapped out in your mind and I'm interested in hearing it.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    In the draft, I want to take either the best PG or the best big man available, as long as it's not a reach at #11 to take that person.

    Whichever one we do not draft, we should try to get the other through a trade if possible. Maybe there's an average PG or big we could pick up in FA to give us some modest help, too.

    I'd like us to try to trade Mike for the best defensive wing we can get.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Ideally, I'd like him to get rid of either JO or Tinsley. I seriously doubt he can do both, but at least one would be nice.

    I'd like him to draft the best player available, regardless of position, as long as it's not Chase Buddinger.

    Regardless of if we draft a PG, we still need to acquire a defensive-minded point, because anybody we get at #11 isn't going to be able to step in right away.

    Ideally, we'd trade our pick for Kyle Lowry, or possibly throw in Shawne Williams to sweeten the deal and get a pick or two in the bargain.

    Besides that, I don't care about positions. We need an overall talent upgrade. But a point who can play D is a must. Considering Jimmy is already saying that publicly, hopefully we'll get one.
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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Lowry would be very nice and pick with Shawne is even better but I am in love with Robin. I could see us trading Shawne straight up for Lowry.

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    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Drafting BPA in June and then dealing Tinsley...If both of those are done, I will be happy. If we don't draft a PG, hopefully we can somehow get a guy via FA who can at least fill in for a while. Diener was great, but he's nothing more then a great backup at best.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    well, as o'brien said, the only start worthy point in the draft is rose. so, i think we go big.
    i would like to get thabeet if he's around. i love the idea of a useful 7'3 center who can defend the rim. his offense will take time but his D is already there. therefore, i think if we can get him in the drat, we are already doing pretty good.
    the pg situation........ hell, i don't know but, i am hopeful that we can work something out if not this summer- then over the upcoming season.
    Last edited by clownskull; 04-20-2008 at 02:19 AM.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    I will comment on this later.....ideally, the offseason would involve moving Tinsley....but short of buying him out....I really don't see how that is going to happen.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownskull View Post
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    well, as o'brien said, the only start worthy point in the draft is rose. so, i think we go big.
    i would like to get thabeet if he's around. i love the idea of a useful 7'3 center who can defend the rim. his offense will take time but his D is already there. therefore, i think if we can get him in the drat, we are already doing pretty good.
    the pg situation........ hell, i don't know but, i am hopeful that we can work something out if not this summer- then over the upcoming season.
    With the 11th pick....I think that Thabeet is a bit too high to draft him.....but if we get a 2nd 1st round pick ( unfortunately, something I doubt )....then I wouldn't mind drafting him there ( assuming that we don't already draft a Big Man ).
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    I think the Pacers need to look at this as a three year plan. We are pretty cap strapped for the next two years, then things clear up. So make moves to get young talent only and focus on 2010/2011, when we'll have a 30 million dollar payroll and almost all of it will be expriring contracts. 20 million in cap space and 30 million in expiring deals is a great situation, so we shouldn't screw it up, especially to make lateral moves out of desperation. I truly feel like 2010 is the year we would have the ability to make moves that will put us in championship contention instead of the lateral moves we have always made. After watching the Colts win the SB, I learned that you quickly forget the dark days when the sun is shining.

    1. Don't aquire ANY contracts that run past 2009/2010.
    2. Don't resign Granger to an extension, instead use him to move up in the draft or aquire extra draft picks. I know it's not popular, but I don't understand paying Granger 50+ million when we already have an equally talented SF due 40+ million.
    3. Keep Jermaine O'Neal unless you can unload him to a team under the cap and only take back young guys with low salaries and draft picks.
    4. I don't think there is anyway we can unload Jamal Tinsley, but even if we can, do not do it if the contract coming back is longer than his.
    5. Pick a style and build to perfect it. I prefer great defense and rebounding.
    6. Only aquire players that have good charcter and work ethic.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Anyone here knows what should happen.

    I expect moves. I do not expect anyone in the starting rotation but Tinsley gone.

    Neat little tidbit from Indystar.com, I mainly read into the FA part of it.

    UNDER CONTRACT
    Jamaal Tinsley: 3 years, $21.5 million.
    Jermaine O'Neal: 2 years, $44 million with an option this summer.
    Troy Murphy: 3 years, $33 million.
    Danny Granger: 1 year, $2.3 million.
    Mike Dunleavy: 3 years, $29.4 million.
    Marquis Daniels: 1 year, $6.9 million with $7.4 million team option for 2009-10.
    Jeff Foster: 1 year, $6.2 million.
    Ike Diogu: 1 year, $2.9 million.
    Travis Diener: 1 year, $1.6 million with a player option for 2009-10.
    Shawne Williams: 1 year, $1.6 million with a team option on 2009-10.
    Stephen Graham: The Pacers must decide by June 30 to pick up his team option or allow him to become a free agent.

    FREE AGENTS
    David Harrison: Restricted free agent, meaning the Pacers can match any offer.
    Kareem Rush: Likely won't return after turning down a multiyear deal from the Pacers last summer and getting inconsistent playing time this season.
    Andre Owens: Likely won't return as the Pacers plan to go in a different direction at point guard.
    Flip Murray: Likely won't return after earning the starting point guard spot but often spending the fourth quarter on the bench.

    -- Mike Wells

    This thread is just beating around a dead horse.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    I think the Pacers need to look at this as a three year plan. We are pretty cap strapped for the next two years, then things clear up. So make moves to get young talent only and focus on 2010/2011, when we'll have a 30 million dollar payroll and almost all of it will be expriring contracts. 20 million in cap space and 30 million in expiring deals is a great situation, so we shouldn't screw it up, especially to make lateral moves out of desperation. I truly feel like 2010 is the year we would have the ability to make moves that will put us in championship contention instead of the lateral moves we have always made. After watching the Colts win the SB, I learned that you quickly forget the dark days when the sun is shining.

    1. Don't aquire ANY contracts that run past 2009/2010.
    2. Don't resign Granger to an extension, instead use him to move up in the draft or aquire extra draft picks. I know it's not popular, but I don't understand paying Granger 50+ million when we already have an equally talented SF due 40+ million.
    3. Keep Jermaine O'Neal unless you can unload him to a team under the cap and only take back young guys with low salaries and draft picks.
    4. I don't think there is anyway we can unload Jamal Tinsley, but even if we can, do not do it if the contract coming back is longer than his.
    5. Pick a style and build to perfect it. I prefer great defense and rebounding.
    6. Only aquire players that have good charcter and work ethic.
    Superb post - except for the don't re-sign Granger bit.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    1) Continue to keep JT off the floor (trade him or sit him).

    2) Draft the best PF or PG available.

    3) Trade Quis, Ike and Dunleavy for an upgrade at PF or PG (whichever position we do not draft for)....or to cut salary. Granger must be re-signed.

    4) IF there is a way to move JO and package one of the three players in #3 to move up to the #3 or #4 position in the draft, consider doing it.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    I agree with sentiments of drafting best player on the board assuming we're at #11. I'm okay going big or point, of course, however not if we are obviously reaching based on talent remaining at that point.

    Next thing I would like is to see some perimeter defense acquired somehow. Lowry, for example, while not probably a long-term star at PG, would be much better defensively than what we have. What about a guy like Quinton Ross? His name has been bandied about at times here. What does it take to get these guys? True, neither of those two examples are great offensive players, but we need some guys who can check up outside.

    Acquiring another pick in this draft is also something to look into. In order to get some people, who do we give up? Well, IMO I'd gladly deal Tins, JO (I realize not easy on those two), Quis, Shawne, and possible MDJ (but only if the deal were really good).

    Finally, in addition to Lowry, other solid upgrade but not star PGs I'd look at would be Jack and possibly Watson. They have experience running a team and have managed to avoid serious injury to this point. Of the three, I'd rank probably rank my interest as 1A Jack, 1B Lowry, 3 Watson. Jack's probably got the best offense but Lowry is young and provides the better D.
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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    2. Don't resign Granger to an extension, instead use him to move up in the draft or aquire extra draft picks. I know it's not popular, but I don't understand paying Granger 50+ million when we already have an equally talented SF due 40+ million.
    I don't even think that Dunleavy is an equally talented SF then Granger is. Granger has a higher ceiling then Dunleavy has....which apparently is 36 points.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Housecleaning that MUST include Tinsley. Period.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    I think this off season is about improving the team and the business. It will be all too easy for fans to say "same old stuff" about the Pacers if Bird fails to move or otherwise cut ties with Jamaal Tinsley.

    I think we continue to draft the best player available on the board when our turn comes up. To me it does not make a lot of sense (except in extremely unique circumstances) to draft an inferior player at one positions and leave a superior player on the board. It isn't like we are a rookie center or a rookie point guard away from winning the whole thing.

    Other than that, fill holes where possible, be smart about moving or not moving Jermaine O'neal, and have the first player to get negative media after start of next year's ad campaign killed.
    Last edited by Cobol Sam; 04-20-2008 at 02:08 PM.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobol Sam View Post
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    and have the first player to get negative media after start of next year's ad campaign killed.


    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Get rid of Tinsley, I don't care how.

    Look slow and hard at your options for JO

    Acquire another 1st round pick

    Trade for a quality and proven PG, using expirings and maybe even a pick

    Draft a young big man

    Do NOT trade Granger or Dunleavy. They're 2 young wings coming into their own, even if you acquire a better wing who can defend, Dunleavy and Granger carried this team this year, and I will they will in the future

    Be Patient, don't just jump the gun at deals. It's very unlikely we're going to become a chamipnship contender over night

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Bird got a pretty solid read on some deals at the last trade deadline. Deals he said he would re-visit during the off season.

    I believe one of those deals will involve O'Neal.

    As for the draft, Bird will take the best player available. He took Williams feeling that in 3 years he would be a better talent than the much needed point guards that we passed over.

    Overall, what I'm looking for Bird is drafting the best player available & making sure Tinsley never plays for us again. My guess is he will be bought out.

    Since its been stated we will not go over the luxury tax he almost have to make a deal to cut salary.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
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    Overall, what I'm looking for Bird is drafting the best player available & making sure Tinsley never plays for us again. My guess is he will be bought out.
    Tinsley won't be bought out. He has 3 years and about $22M left.

    Let's say you buy him out for $18M. I don't see him taking less than that. That means he'll count against the cap for about $6M a year for 3 years and all the while you WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO TRADE HIS CONTRACT. So in the last year of his deal when he becomes an expiring contract, you can't trade him.

    The Simons and Bird won't do that. Maybe they'll do that 2 years left on the deal but not 3 years.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    An alternative to buying him out if you really don't want him on the team anymore, is to tell him to stay home. Don't come to our practices, don't come to our games. Like we did with Ron at the end. At least then you could trade the contract later.

  22. #22

    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    -trade tinsley (probably gonna have to package him with JO)

    -try to trade one of the bad contracts (dunleavy/murphy) or both if possible

    -hoping we can get anthony randolph and robin lopez in teh draft

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Trade Tinsley. Somehow someway. Miami for Marcus Banks and filler maybe.

    Try and sign Steve Blake. He's not spectacular, but he's a good starter and would be perfect in Obie's system. And would be a nice holdover until any potential young PG we get is able to start.

    Target Hasheem Thabeet in the draft. If not him, Russell Westbrook. Both may be (maybe even should be) gone by then though, if that's the case I'll take Augustin as my 3rd option.

    Pray that Danny Granger keeps drinking milk and sign him to an extension before he really blows up next year. Maybe have a keep your nose clean clause in his deal.

    Why are so many adamant about dumping contracts? I want to dump Tinsley because he's a PR nightmare and plays 20 games a year. What's the point in dumping cap space when we aren't going to end up using it? If a deal for Troy or JO comes up that's too good to be true, then you take it, but if not you let their value continue to rise as their contracts become shorter by the day.
    Last edited by tdubb03; 04-20-2008 at 05:31 PM.

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrknowname View Post
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    -trade tinsley (probably gonna have to package him with JO)

    -try to trade one of the bad contracts (dunleavy/murphy) or both if possible

    -hoping we can get anthony randolph and robin lopez in teh draft

    You are still calling Dunleavy's contract a bad contract? Why?

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    Default Re: What are your ideal, yet realistic, offseason results for the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    I think the Pacers need to look at this as a three year plan. We are pretty cap strapped for the next two years, then things clear up. So make moves to get young talent only and focus on 2010/2011, when we'll have a 30 million dollar payroll and almost all of it will be expriring contracts. 20 million in cap space and 30 million in expiring deals is a great situation, so we shouldn't screw it up, especially to make lateral moves out of desperation. I truly feel like 2010 is the year we would have the ability to make moves that will put us in championship contention instead of the lateral moves we have always made. After watching the Colts win the SB, I learned that you quickly forget the dark days when the sun is shining.

    1. Don't aquire ANY contracts that run past 2009/2010.
    2. Don't resign Granger to an extension, instead use him to move up in the draft or aquire extra draft picks. I know it's not popular, but I don't understand paying Granger 50+ million when we already have an equally talented SF due 40+ million.
    3. Keep Jermaine O'Neal unless you can unload him to a team under the cap and only take back young guys with low salaries and draft picks.
    4. I don't think there is anyway we can unload Jamal Tinsley, but even if we can, do not do it if the contract coming back is longer than his.
    5. Pick a style and build to perfect it. I prefer great defense and rebounding.
    6. Only aquire players that have good charcter and work ethic.
    Who dis?

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