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Thread: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

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    Default Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    The point of this thread is to look at our roster and see where guys would play on a very good team. By very good I mean a team who's basement is the 2nd round of the playoffs.

    Here's how I see our guys fitting.

    #1 PG -
    #2 PG - Diener, Tinsley, Murray
    #3 PG - Owens

    #1 SG -
    #2 SG - Daniels, Rush, Murray
    #3 SG -

    #1 SF - Granger, Dunleavy
    #2 SF - Williams, Daniels
    #3 SF - Graham

    #1 PF - O'Neal, Murphy
    #2 PF - Diogu
    #3 PF -

    #1 C - Foster
    #2 C - Harrison
    #3 C -

    How guys fit in on any team really depends on the other players, but that's how I felt it broke down. I almost felt like I had to create another category for Troy and Jeff, something like a 1.5 PF/C. I kind of feel like he and Foster are in the same category: if they're the 3rd best big guy on your team, you're doing really well. They could both start for good teams if they're playing next to the right kind of guy. For a good example of this, think about Foster playing next to Duncan in San Antonio. They'd be great. A good pairing for Murph would be someone like Dwight Howard.
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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Wow, well put. I agree with this exactly, especially after you put the 1.5 on Murph and Foster.

    I think one thing to consider is if we think the missing #1 PG and SG have to be at what level. Does this team have to a middle of the pack starter at those positions or do they have to have a franchise or top 5 guy at one of those positions to be a contender. Thats basically what we are saying if you make it to the second round and are competitive I'd say you are or are close to contending.

    My Take you can have a top 25 shooting guard, but you need a top 10 point guard based on how things are structured right now, imo. Especially in this era of the Point guard.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Considering that J.O. may well not be here next Fall and almost
    certainly won't be 2 yrs from then, I'm not sure we can just
    pencil him in at PF. And putting aside wether Foster will be
    around 6 months from now or not (other than DG, he's our
    most attractive trading asset), given his health issues and
    lack of offense, penciling him in at C on a 'very good' (or 50+
    win in my book) team is a stretch too.

    No matter who LB comes up with at the G positions, the chance
    that the team will reach very good or 50 win status while that
    frontline is still intact is pretty slim.

    Isn't it ?

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Well I agree with pretty much everything - I think if Tinsley were healthy he'd be absolutely a #1 PG, but I think you put him in as a 2 bc of his unreliability.

    Otherwise, nice job.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Good concept.

    I agree with you, except I'd shift O'Neal and Murphy down to 2nd place. A Healthy Jermaine is a great asset, but Jermaine doesn't stay healthy. He's not in playoff condition right now.

    Your comments on Foster and Murphy are just right. Foster could start on many very good teams, provided the rest of the lineup complemented him.

    And I'd move Harrison to 3rd place or out of the league. If he can't drink the Pepsi, I won't drink the kool-aid.
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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaufman View Post
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    Well I agree with pretty much everything - I think if Tinsley were healthy he'd be absolutely a #1 PG, but I think you put him in as a 2 bc of his unreliability.

    Otherwise, nice job.
    Tinsley's unreliability has to do with more than just his health. I don't want to turn this into a thread about Tins, but even completely healthy, I don't think he's really the guy I want making decisions at the end of playoff games.
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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    Here's how I see our guys fitting.

    #1 PG -
    #2 PG - Diener, Tinsley, Murray
    #3 PG - Owens

    #1 SG -
    #2 SG - Daniels, Rush, Murray
    #3 SG -

    #1 SF - Granger, Dunleavy
    #2 SF - Williams, Daniels
    #3 SF - Graham
    Finally, someone who doesn't try to make a doggone guard out of our forwards!! (Dunleavy, Granger, Graham and Williams)

    Thank you!

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Finally, someone who doesn't try to make a doggone guard out of our forwards!! (Dunleavy, Granger, Graham and Williams)

    Thank you!
    As I posted in another thread or two, it is definitely NOT a good idea to have Danny or Mike coming off the bench. These guys are doing well at their positions.

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    I think Shaun Livingston would be a great addition to our team at PG. I know he has sat out all season from that horrible knee injury last year, but if we get him at the right price it would be worth the risk IMO. I am thinking a two year contract right around 1.5 million.

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    The way I look at the roster and who fits in where:

    PG - Tinsley ( or new Starting Quality Defensive-minded PG ) 25 mpg / Diener 23 mpg
    SG/SF rotation - Granger 34 mpg / Dunleavy 32 mpg ( 6th Man role coming off the bench ) / Shawne 18 mpg / ( ???? Defensive-minded SG ) 12 mpg
    PF/C rotation - JONeal 32 mpg / Murphy 28 mpg / Foster 24 mpg / ( ???? Backup PF/C that can play 12 mpg )

    I don't see roles for Marquis and Ike in the lineup ( since I'm expecting them to be traded in the offseason ) and don't expect to resign Rush and Flip. Hopefully, Bird can draft whatever "Defensive-minded SG and/or the 4th Big Man in our rotation ( as in Brandon Rush, Kevin Love or Kyle Weaver ) that we need and give them the required minutes that we need.
    Last edited by CableKC; 04-08-2008 at 02:10 PM.
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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Dunleavy 32 mpg ( 6th Man role coming off the bench )
    Not going to happen. How many times do I have to say this!? No one in their right mind is going to bench him.

    You guys are nuts!

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Not going to happen. How many times do I have to say this!? No one in their right mind is going to bench him.

    You guys are nuts!
    Mike has had a great season and nobody is trying to discredit him for that. However, putting up decent stats for the first time in his career on an Eastern conference lottery team while still being a defensive liability doesn't cement him as a guaranteed starter all of a sudden. I don't see him getting bumped down next year, though. Just not convinced the Pacers will go after another swingman as it's not the most pressing need.

    And for the original post, I'd knock down Rush to #3 SG and Murray to #3 on both. Foster and Murphy aren't definite #1 quality either but they're both better than #2 quality for the most part.

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    #1 SG -
    #2 SG - Daniels, Murray
    #3 SG -

    ...hopefully on another team

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbry View Post
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    Mike has had a great season and nobody is trying to discredit him for that. However, putting up decent stats for the first time in his career on an Eastern conference lottery team while still being a defensive liability doesn't cement him as a guaranteed starter all of a sudden. I don't see him getting bumped down next year, though. Just not convinced the Pacers will go after another swingman as it's not the most pressing need.

    And for the original post, I'd knock down Rush to #3 SG and Murray to #3 on both. Foster and Murphy aren't definite #1 quality either but they're both better than #2 quality for the most part.
    Agreed, I among most hope that he can finely tune his defensive skills as how he upped his offense last off-season.
    I really don't think we should worry about bringing in another SG or SF. I really think we need to focus on the PG position first. We can get backups, but I really want to see some veterans brought in to compliment our current starting lineup.

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Not going to happen. How many times do I have to say this!? No one in their right mind is going to bench him.

    You guys are nuts!
    Then I'm nuts. I just think that he would have a greater impact coming off the bench playing 32 minutes a game. He's only starting now only because we have no choice but to Start him. I would still prefer to have a real SG that can provide some solid defense at the SG spot to play with Granger on a consistent ( but limited ) basis.

    Keep in mind....just because you have Dunleavy as a 6th man playing 32 minutes a game doesn't mean that he won't finish or won't be playing with Granger for the majority of the game.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Then I'm nuts. I just think that he would have a greater impact coming off the bench playing 32 minutes a game. He's only starting now only because we have no choice but to Start him. I would still prefer to have a real SG that can provide some solid defense at the SG spot to play with Granger on a consistent ( but limited ) basis.

    Keep in mind....just because you have Dunleavy as a 6th man playing 32 minutes a game doesn't mean that he won't finish or won't be playing with Granger for the majority of the game.
    Yeah, but I don't think he will have a greater impact coming off the bench on the game than he already does starting.

    Danny and Mike have adapted well sharing those two positions all season long. I know defense is a problem, but that can be worked on in the off-season.

    I'm starting a petition to keep Dun Dun in the starting rotation I guess...

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    As I posted in another thread or two, it is definitely NOT a good idea to have Danny or Mike coming off the bench. These guys are doing well at their positions.

    But they play the same position. I understand the concept of what you are saying though. I think we'll have to trade one of them eventually. They are good on the offensive end but if one of them is playing 2guard they aren't good on the defensive end.

    One of them will have to be moved.

    Ideally MDJ is a good 6th man on a good team.
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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    As I posted in another thread or two, it is definitely NOT a good idea to have Danny or Mike coming off the bench. These guys are doing well at their positions.
    Yeah, I understand what you are saying, Duke, and I have a good amount of agreement with you. The Pacers are forced to use Mike as a 2-guard due to the make-up of their roster, and him being on the floor is certainly better than him not being on the floor.

    I am taking mellifluous' outline as being which position best fits the players, as well as where the would best fit on a good team.

    In other words Mike and Danny are both better small forwards than they are 2-guards. In an ideal world, and on a balanced team, they each are better suited to playing the 3, rather than the 2.

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Yeah, I understand what you are saying, Duke, and I have a good amount of agreement with you. The Pacers are forced to use Mike as a 2-guard due to the make-up of their roster, and him being on the floor is certainly better than him not being on the floor.

    I am taking mellifluous' outline as being which position best fits the players, as well as where the would best fit on a good team.

    In other words Mike and Danny are both better small forwards than they are 2-guards. In an ideal world, and on a balanced team, they each are better suited to playing the 3, rather than the 2.
    Yeah, that and there are no players out there at either of those two positions that can fit our team better than Danny or Mike. No draft pick either.

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Yeah, that and there are no players out there at either of those two positions that can fit our team better than Danny or Mike. No draft pick either.
    My only problem is when you play Him and Danny together like that you have to play one out of position and neither can exploit the size advantage or they don't. If you play Dun at small forward for 82 games you have to hide him against teams like the Nets and have him guard Krstic. I am wistful for players who can guard their position in any situation, Danny can across the league, Mike can't.

    I still like Mike he makes players around him better, somewhat, thats a rare commodity around here. Its just you have to make adjustments for him in some situations.

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    My only problem is when you play Him and Danny together like that you have to play one out of position and neither can exploit the size advantage or they don't. If you play Dun at small forward for 82 games you have to hide him against teams like the Nets and have him guard Krstic. I am wistful for players who can guard their position in any situation, Danny can across the league, Mike can't.

    I still like Mike he makes players around him better, somewhat, thats a rare commodity around here. Its just you have to make adjustments for him in some situations.
    And that's what we've been doing. Mike has a good mind for basketball. He and Danny have been adjusting to swapping the roles all season. Danny and Mike have both had career seasons. It seems to be working.

    I've been saying this all day, off-season training and conditioning for both Danny and Dun Dun will do them best. I'm sure we will have a better defense next season if they work on it this summer.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    dunleavy should take a backseat to granger.

    trade foster and williams for a real SG that can play some defense

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Keep in mind....just because you have Dunleavy as a 6th man playing 32 minutes a game doesn't mean that he won't finish or won't be playing with Granger for the majority of the game.
    So why bench him? Why not have the guy you are starting in front of him come off the bench?

    Mike holds up his end, what we really need is a point guard that can stop other point guards from driving the lane at will.

    Point guard, point guard, point guard, nothing else with our first pick.

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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrknowname View Post
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    dunleavy should take a backseat to granger.

    trade foster and williams for a real SG that can play some defense
    Good Idea: Keep Dunleavy in the starting rotation.

    Bad Idea: Trade off our only real rebounder.


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    Default Re: Our Roster - Where do guys fit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    So why bench him? Why not have the guy you are starting in front of him come off the bench?

    Mike holds up his end, what we really need is a point guard that can stop other point guards from driving the lane at will.

    Point guard, point guard, point guard, nothing else with our first pick.
    My main concern is defense at the GF rotation. As far as I am concerned....the more time that we have an actual player that can help Danny guard the perimeter the better......especially when it comes to the Starting quality SGs that either blows by Dunleavy when they drive to the hoop or simply torch him on the perimeter cuz he can't keep up with him.

    I'm not saying that Dunleavy isn't a good player and isn't a smart enough player to play with our "team offense"....I just recognize the need to shore up our perimeter defense as muich as we can while not compromising what Dunleavy does on the offensive end. There is no amount of training that Dunleavy can do at this point in his career that will give him the physical abilities to be quicker or have better lateral speed.
    Last edited by CableKC; 04-08-2008 at 05:33 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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