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Thread: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    snippet from ny daily news (mitch lawrence)

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba..._f.html?page=1

    With Walsh gone, Larry Bird gets to run the show in Indiana, where he has a reputation for attending practice once a week, maybe. That's why Indiana is looking for a GM who will come in and work the phones, deal with scouts, meet with coach Jim O'Brien and his assistants and make suggestions to Bird. "Larry just wants to make the decisions," said one rival GM. Philly's Billy King, high on Walsh's list for a position with the Knicks, is a candidate in Indiana, along with ex-Seattle executive Rick Sund. ...
    not sure how i feel about this given that we've just gotten out of the two headed monster scenario (which everyone agreed was bad).

    who has been handling the pacers' day to day operations the past few years anyway? it seems unlikely to have been walsh (health), nor bird (disinclined). was it morway? we knew he was involved in trades at least. if bird brings in a new gm, does it mean morway is on his way out?

    i think we're all a bit tired of the incomprehensible hierarchy that seems to be the pacers organization. on the other hand, if this is part of bird's move to clean house and put in place a leaner, meaner structure, then i'm all for it.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    At this point, why does it matter to any NY tabloid on what Indiana does?

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    I think this is a good idea, if it gets handled right. Not sure how high I am on Billy King. How do you think Vandegwhe would be as a GM?

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    What does Bird actually do? Jesus.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    If all Bird wants to do is make decisions, then it sounds like what he really wants to be is an owner. Which makes sense I guess, considering he tried to buy the Bobcats before he joined the Pacers. But if he has no real interest in the day-to-day operations of a franchise, then he just needs to leave. He's nothing more than a figurehead if he's doing nothing but saying "yes" or "no" to things.

    And if he does leave/get fired, I would rather have Morway take over. He's been here, he knows how things work. Let's promote him and see how he does, sink-or-swim. If he sinks, then fire him and bring in somebody else. Because right now Rick Sund and Billy King are hardly the types of GM's that would get me excited.
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    snippet from ny daily news (mitch lawrence)

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba..._f.html?page=1



    not sure how i feel about this given that we've just gotten out of the two headed monster scenario (which everyone agreed was bad).

    who has been handling the pacers' day to day operations the past few years anyway? it seems unlikely to have been walsh (health), nor bird (disinclined). was it morway? we knew he was involved in trades at least. if bird brings in a new gm, does it mean morway is on his way out?

    i think we're all a bit tired of the incomprehensible hierarchy that seems to be the pacers organization. on the other hand, if this is part of bird's move to clean house and put in place a leaner, meaner structure, then i'm all for it.

    Im sure they have some assitants doing most of their dirty work like most prominent GM/CEOs/Owners do. When ur that rich u have people do all kinds of things.

    I think Bird is just cleaning house. Why would he want to get rid of Morway? Maybe he wants some1 that he feels will not conflict in interests. Maybe if they promoted Morway they could have conflicting ideas?

    Who knows time will tell. Larry as our coach took us to our first championship. Maybe now he moved his way to the top he can mold us for championship sucess. I mean who knows more about winning them then Larry Legend? An elite few.

    I hear all the hate and those who want him gone, but lets at least give him a chance. I mean he was our main scout, the player moves we have made seem to be working in some sense, just Tinsley and JO have been unmovable so we still suck. If we could get fair market calue for both then we could be a contender just that fast.
    Last edited by Midcoasted; 04-07-2008 at 01:36 AM.

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
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    If all Bird wants to do is make decisions, then it sounds like what he really wants to be is an owner. Which makes sense I guess, considering he tried to buy the Bobcats before he joined the Pacers. But if he has no real interest in the day-to-day operations of a franchise, then he just needs to leave. He's nothing more than a figurehead if he's doing nothing but saying "yes" or "no" to things.

    And if he does leave/get fired, I would rather have Morway take over. He's been here, he knows how things work. Let's promote him and see how he does, sink-or-swim. If he sinks, then fire him and bring in somebody else. Because right now Rick Sund and Billy King are hardly the types of GM's that would get me excited.
    I don't necessarily dislike Bird as GM. I fairly firmly entrenched in the "give him a solo chance" camp but isn't Morway more the type of guy that seems likely to have the patience to head up a rebuilding campaign? I am fairly sure we'll lose him to Donnie in NY but why not offer him the GM spot and fire Bird rather than lose him altogether?

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Who knows time will tell. Larry as our coach took us to our first EASTERN CONFRENCE championship. Maybe now he moved his way to the top he can mold us for championship sucess. I mean who knows more about winning them then Larry Legend? An elite few.
    Fixed

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Not gonna happen. Walsh isn't here because we wanted one voice.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    This makes no sense, does he want an assistant to do the things that he's supposed to be doing. I don't get it. This is so confusing I wonder if the report is just wrong.

    He wants to be a GM, which means to Bird doing the none of the things that a GM does? First order of business should be to make things clearer not more muddled. I fear this isn't going to go well, if this is true.

    I'll resevere the chicken little act for now, I guess.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    So Bird is trying to be like Michael Jordan - an absentee GM

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So Bird is trying to be like Michael Jordan - an absentee GM
    This seems like a smart move by Bird to me. He tells people what he thinks and that doesn't go over very well face to face.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    This makes no sense, does he want an assistant to do the things that he's supposed to be doing. I don't get it. This is so confusing I wonder if the report is just wrong.

    He wants to be a GM, which means to Bird doing the none of the things that a GM does? First order of business should be to make things clearer not more muddled. I fear this isn't going to go well, if this is true.

    If this article is correct, Bird is starting to surround himself with people who can do the things he isn't good at or doesn't like doing. That's wise. And there really isn't a very specific list of "things he's supposed to do." Bird is supposed to see to it that the team is competitive, profitable and entertaining. He is ultimately responsible for all of that. But there's no rule that he has to cook the popcorn or run the scoreboard himself. Nor handle the trades and drafts personally, either.

    If he gets a new guy and calls him the GM, it doesn't mean the new guy will do the same things Walsh did or that Bird's relationship with the new guy will be the same as his (confused) relationship with Walsh.



    This may be a very good initial step. Keep hope alive.
    Last edited by Putnam; 04-07-2008 at 09:34 AM.
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    What I really worry about - if the info is true that Bird rarely comes to practice and rarely communicates with anyone ---- that makes it difficult to do the job is is supposed to be doing.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    This seems like a smart move by Bird to me. He tells people what he thinks and that doesn't go over very well face to face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    If this article is correct, Bird is starting to surround himself with people who can do the things he isn't good at or doesn't like doing. That's wise.
    that is kinda what i was thinking. it certainly worked for him as a coach: let guys that know how to coach (rick & dick) handle the Xs and Os coaching and have bird be "the decider."

    and i agree with rexnom that it would seem like morway would be that type of guy since some GMs seem to be calling him first anyway.
    This is the darkest timeline.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Hearsay from a rival Gm doesn't make it the truth.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    What I really worry about - if the info is true that Bird rarely comes to practice and rarely communicates with anyone ---- that makes it difficult to do the job is is supposed to be doing.
    Been a lot of murmurings over the years that schmooze is not his strong point. All the players loved Walsh. Several, JO particularly, aren't fond of Bird.

    Well, now that Bird has total unencumbered power, we'll see how well his style works.

    In my opinion, we were hurt sorely if Bird tried to get rid of JO two or three years ago and was stopped by Donnie.
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    Get well PG! QuickRelease's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
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    If all Bird wants to do is make decisions, then it sounds like what he really wants to be is an owner. Which makes sense I guess, considering he tried to buy the Bobcats before he joined the Pacers. But if he has no real interest in the day-to-day operations of a franchise, then he just needs to leave. He's nothing more than a figurehead if he's doing nothing but saying "yes" or "no" to things.

    And if he does leave/get fired, I would rather have Morway take over. He's been here, he knows how things work. Let's promote him and see how he does, sink-or-swim. If he sinks, then fire him and bring in somebody else. Because right now Rick Sund and Billy King are hardly the types of GM's that would get me excited.
    I agree with this/ah

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    I'd like to think that Putnam and the others who see this as positive are onto something. As long as the buck stops with Bird and he takes full responsibility for everything that goes on during his reign, having a few more voices can only help. However, you can certainly put me in the camp that doesn't quite understand why you'd hire a GM who wasn't any good elsewhere (like King or Sund or even Kiki). Bring in someone young and fresh and full of energy and ideas. Whoever we bring in should be someone who complements Bird rather than another member of the good-old-boys club.

    What I don't understand is this article. It seems to take potshots at Bird for no apparent reason. It also uses a rather juvenile tone, kind of like a 7th grade girl who says, "Like, Bird only comes to practice, like, once a week, ya know?"
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Im sure they have some assitants doing most of their dirty work like most prominent GM/CEOs/Owners do. When ur that rich u have people do all kinds of things.

    I think Bird is just cleaning house. Why would he want to get rid of Morway? Maybe he wants some1 that he feels will not conflict in interests. Maybe if they promoted Morway they could have conflicting ideas?

    Who knows time will tell. Larry as our coach took us to our first championship. Maybe now he moved his way to the top he can mold us for championship sucess. I mean who knows more about winning them then Larry Legend? An elite few.

    I hear all the hate and those who want him gone, but lets at least give him a chance. I mean he was our main scout, the player moves we have made seem to be working in some sense, just Tinsley and JO have been unmovable so we still suck. If we could get fair market calue for both then we could be a contender just that fast.
    Keep in mind that Larry inherited an extremely cohesive veteran team with incredible chemistry. All he really needed to do with them is stay out of the way, and not mess anything up. Plus the fact, that team had a 'coach' on the floor in Jiggles Jackson.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    This makes no sense, does he want an assistant to do the things that he's supposed to be doing. I don't get it. This is so confusing I wonder if the report is just wrong.

    He wants to be a GM, which means to Bird doing the none of the things that a GM does? First order of business should be to make things clearer not more muddled. I fear this isn't going to go well, if this is true.

    I'll resevere the chicken little act for now, I guess.
    I'm not certain, but it seems that most teams have a seperate Team President and GM. I don't think this will be that much of a disaster. It's just that he probably doesn't want to do both jobs. I don't have a problem with that. Morway would probably be a good choice, but I agree that he'll probably wind up following Donnie to New York.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    If this article is correct, Bird is starting to surround himself with people who can do the things he isn't good at or doesn't like doing. That's wise. And there really isn't a very specific list of "things he's supposed to do." Bird is supposed to see to it that the team is competitive, profitable and entertaining. He is ultimately responsible for all of that. But there's no rule that he has to cook the popcorn or run the scoreboard himself. Nor handle the trades and drafts personally, either.

    If he gets a new guy and calls him the GM, it doesn't mean the new guy will do the same things Walsh did or that Bird's relationship with the new guy will be the same as his (confused) relationship with Walsh.



    This may be a very good initial step. Keep hope alive.
    Thanks Putnam, I see your point.

    I suppose it is okay if Bird wants to be the decider and the other guy or guys are a buffer between him and the rest of the league, and the players, and the coaches. I mean I guess he doesn't have to be hands on.

    I'll reserve going off the deep end.

    It just seems foreign to me because I always see a GM or main guy as someone who does those things. It doesn't mean it has to work that way. I wonder how the other GMs do it. Is there someone sucessful out there who has followed a similar pattern.

    Lastly, if Bird is impatient and a No BS guy, maybe it is a good thing.


    It troubled me that when Walsh "retired" they basically asked Bird about his style on the phone talking trades and it was abrupt and to the point, which to me is way counter to what you want to do. You want to open dialog and maybe finesse the conversation into other options if the initial trade discussion sucks. I don't think Bird gets that. I think its pretty much Bird saying NO and then hanging up. I think Bird thinks you come off like a sales type person if you don't keep it real, but its not like that really.

    Anyway, I hope this is a good thing and not him, not wanting to do the job as I've seen it in the past. We'll see.

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    Call me Kauffie Kaufman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    This really bothers me, for one, if this is true that he is looking for a GM and this and that.

    I agree that one should surround themselves with talent and people to do certain jobs. But then what is Larry here for? Is he just a figurehead who is running this place based on his legendary playing career?

    As a coach, the team did well, but then one CAN ask themselves, was Larry REALLY the coach, or was he just a figurehead? It seemed that Rick and Dick ran the squad and Larry just oversaw things.

    So if Larry is going to do the same thing now, what is the point? Someone mentioned that it seems that Larry wants to act like the owner. Well we already have owners, so why do we need to pay Larry to act like an owner?

    This is all very confusing to me. I'd rather have Donnie here doing the job he was doing.

    There was a reason that Red Auerbach didn't want to keep Larry around the Celtics.... I remember seeing him with titles such as "executive scout" and similar other things, but why didn't they want him in their front office? Had to be related to what we have seen from him the last few years.

    They went through ML Carr, Danny Ainge and others but never gave Larry, arguably one of the most famous of them all, the keys to the car.

    It all starts to add up.
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  24. #24
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaufman View Post
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    As a coach, the team did well, but then one CAN ask themselves, was Larry REALLY the coach, or was he just a figurehead? It seemed that Rick and Dick ran the squad and Larry just oversaw things.
    I actually believe by the third year, Larry was pretty much running things himself, relying less and less on the assistants, but...

    I'm for any approach that would make his GM tenure become as successful as his coaching tenure.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking for a new GM under Bird?

    Whatever gets the job done lol
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