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Thread: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    http://www3.realgm.com/src_wiretap/

    Nets Lose Carter To Ankle Injury

    New York Daily News - 04/05 - 2:30 AM EST
    With the Nets still trying to keep their playoff chances alive, the team were dealt a blow when they lost Vince Carter with a sprained ankle which may require surgery, the New York Daily News are reporting.

    If Carter opts for surgery, it will not happen until the Nets season is over.

    ----------------------------

    I wouldn't normally bother with this but it could impact the Pacers since there has been a lot of trade talk between NJ and the Pacers about doing a trade for JO.

    Speculation leads me to think this benefits the Pacers one way or another.

    The background on this is the Nets want JO since his contract expires at the same time as Labron's and Wade's etc., and it appears NJ has the best chance of landing Labron if he wants to leave Cleveland.

    How would this benefit the Pacers? Well, we would now naturally want more for JO than Carter and spare parts.

    POSSIBILITIES

    1] We trade JO this summer.
    2] We keep JO at least for another year.
    3] We keep JO and trade him at the trade deadline in a year and a half.
    4] We resign JO after his contract expires.

    The thing is if NJ wants JO this summer, besides what ever the deal is it will probably cost them a draft pick to get him now. Their own, or possibly Dallas's if Dallas makes the playoffs.

    I look for both teams to pass on a trade this summer. Right now JO is enhancing his value and we can get more later, especially next summer or at the trade deadline in a year and a half. So unless we get what we want, why trade him? Plus there is always the chance JO starts earning his big contract again, which would really benefit us.

    As for NJ's view point, why trade now? Of course that could turn out to hurt them.

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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    The question at hand is do we really want Vince? Pros, cons?

    Those are all nice possibilities, but I think trading is a lot harder than it looks, even with a few "spare parts".

    Even though our only challenge so far with JO recently added back into the lineup was Boston, so far I have been seeing a vast improvement on his game. His minutes are limited, but he hasn't been like himself (in a good way). He actually was upset that the coach took him out last night because of the 20 minute limit that the doctors put him on.

    “It was tough coming out in the fourth quarter but I guess that is part of the plan. I felt pretty good in the first half but that 20 minutes creeps up on you really quick. I asked him if I could stay out there and he looked me off so I knew what the answer was.”
    pacers.com

  3. #3

    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Will-

    Three things.

    1. How exactly is J.O. 'enhancing his value' right now ?

    2. Even at 100%, playing at the top of his game, J.O. is
    not capable of 'earning his contract'. There are only
    a handful of guys in the NBA worth $20 mil a year.
    J.O. isn't one of them.

    3. I totally agree that we should pass on any deal not to
    our liking this Summer (especially w/ NJ for Vinsanity).
    Regardless of his play or lack thereof, his value will
    increase as his contract expiration draws closer.

  4. #4
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    [quote=Rajah Brown;689024]Will-

    Three things.

    1. How exactly is J.O. 'enhancing his value' right now ?

    He's playing.

    2. Even at 100%, playing at the top of his game, J.O. is
    not capable of 'earning his contract'. There are only
    a handful of guys in the NBA worth $20 mil a year.
    J.O. isn't one of them.

    JO could average 25 points, 12 rebounds, 3 blocks, and 4 assists, and there would still be those who would say he still isn't worth what he's making.

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    J.O. To The T.O. Oneal07's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    J.O. is a 6th time All-star. That is why he's worth the money he is. If J.O. stays healthy, he is worth the money he makes. That's just my opinion
    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Maybe in 2003 he was worth his money but nowadays JO isn't worth 20+ mille a year by far!
    Maceo Baston's #1 fan on Pacers Digest!

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpolloloco View Post
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    Maybe in 2003 he was worth his money but nowadays JO isn't worth 20+ mille a year by far!
    No way in HELL JO is worth that contract now. Sure he is 6-time all-star, so what? Been quite awhile ago since JO produced worthy of all-star money let stand max-player money.

    Btw are people going to bringing that 6-time all-star stuff up as a reason to give him a max contract when say he's 34 and wants the last contract of his career?

    And I'm still less then enthousiastic about Carter, his contract and his the longer running part of that contract. I rather keep JO and deal him in the year his contract is expiring, be it in the draft or at one of the trade deadlines.

    Regards,

    Mourning
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    No way in HELL JO is worth that contract now. Sure he is 6-time all-star, so what? Been quite awhile ago since JO produced worthy of all-star money let stand max-player money.

    Btw are people going to bringing that 6-time all-star stuff up as a reason to give him a max contract when say he's 34 and wants the last contract of his career?

    And I'm still less then enthousiastic about Carter, his contract and his the longer running part of that contract. I rather keep JO and deal him in the year his contract is expiring, be it in the draft or at one of the trade deadlines.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    Are you just trying to maximize draft picks by trading JO on his expiring contract year or do you think we can get something back thats decent by trading him?

  9. #9
    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Are you just trying to maximize draft picks by trading JO on his expiring contract year or do you think we can get something back thats decent by trading him?
    I think that, considering the Gasol trade, the two might be the same.

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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Similiar to the risks that Kidd and Shaq offered for the Mavs and the Suns, GMs that need a Big Man defensive skills with a decent High-post/Midrange scoring game can use a player like JONeal.

    JONeal's trade value is now centered around IMHO when his huge contract expires....right before the 2010-2011 Top FA offseason starts with Lebron/Wade/Bosh.

    JONeal maybe expensive and injury prone, but I think that a team with a Top tier Franchise player that wants to make a push for the next 2 seasons with a very solid Veteran and then go on the FA market in the 2010-2011 season could consider taking the risk that JONeal offers.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    I've "listened" to the "JO's not earning his contract" argument for years now, and the one aspect to this debate continues to be, "Can he be that player who can take over a game at critical junctions and lead his team to victory"? In RC's system a healthy JO could have done it. In fact, it wasn't that long ago that the "20/10" JO led the team in scoring and very well could have led them to be EC champs had a few things gone the Pacers way. It's only been these last 4 yrs JO has had continual health problems of one sort or another. But in JOB's system, I'm not so sure.

    You see, RC's half-court system relied on having a dominate low-post. Just move the ball around the horn, feed it inside to the post scorer or kick it back out for the trey. There weren't that many fast break opportunities, not nearly as many as with JOB's system which is more Guard oriented. But that doesn't mean JO's presence will be ignored. On the contrary.

    He's still an interior post presence that demands respect, and he's still a defensive asset! It's just that JO's effectiveness won't be focused so much his offense, but rather his defense. And if he can still put up points, render an assist here and there, as well as rebound the ball, that's even better! But make no mistake: as long as Jim O'Brien is the head coach this team will be a uptempo, Guard oriented team...which isn't a bad thing.

    I think the Pacers would be foolish to trade JO as long as JOB remains the head coach. JO can fit in very well under his system as long as he stays at PF and he is able to keep up or at the very least be the post-trailor. This is one area JOB and I agree; your Big Man shouldn't be the first to get back on defense. That's usually the responsibility or your Guards or SF, but he should get back in a timely manner. You just can't leave the post unguarded and players like JO are key to holding down interior defense! On the offensive end as the post-trailor, it's his job to work that screen-N-roll to the basket often!!, ala, Jeff Foster/David Harrison. Regardless, let's be clear on one point: of all the Bigs on this team, there's only ONE who can score and defend at a high level. You don't throw that away so easily.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 04-05-2008 at 03:28 PM.

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    J.O. To The T.O. Oneal07's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Bottom Line, we need J.O's Defense and Post Presence, if you don't think so, then you are a fool!!! I don't see any other big men on this team doing anything other than Jeff Foster, but he isn't an offensive threat. If J.O. is healthy and we trade him, it's going to be a huge mistake.

    I totally agree with Nuff Said
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    Remember #31 dohman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    At this point I would hold on to JO. IF we can get the powers to be to shop for a good PG we will actually be a decent team. JO being hurt this year may have been the best thing for granger and dun. Hell even troy is playing better now. Everyone has developed and with a good post presence it will start to come together.

    Several times last night my jaw dropped with excitment. They would pass the ball into JO. He would draw the double team. He would kick it out to the wing and then the quck pass to the corner for the WIDE open three "With players who can now make the shot"

    This is something we havent had in a while. Earlier in the season it was throw it to jo and everyone stand around. last night people were cutting and moving and it was wonderful. Keep him for the rest of his contract and shop for a good PG and we will be in great shape.

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    Offical Thread Killer TheSauceMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneal07 View Post
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    J.O. is a 6th time All-star. That is why he's worth the money he is. If J.O. stays healthy, he is worth the money he makes. That's just my opinion
    So exactly what year is he going to be healthy ? What's it been like 3-4 years since he was healthy. I hear the speech every year of how he's going to be better and such. Yet what I see is someone overpaid and injured way to often. It's not like he hasn't had plenty of chances to shine.


    I'm no big fan of J.O. I just don't see how getting Vince Carter makes us better as a team. As bad as I would like to see us trade J.O , I don't think Vince Carter is the answer we are looking for.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSauceMaster View Post
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    So exactly what year is he going to be healthy ? What's it been like 3-4 years since he was healthy. I hear the speech every year of how he's going to be better and such. Yet what I see is someone overpaid and injured way to often. It's not like he hasn't had plenty of chances to shine.


    I'm no big fan of J.O. I just don't see how getting Vince Carter makes us better as a team. As bad as I would like to see us trade J.O , I don't think Vince Carter is the answer we are looking for.
    I am sooo thankful we did not acquire Carter. I am also no fan of JO, but he's probably worth 50% of his salary the way he's playing at the moment. I can put up with that opposed to seeing him on the bench. In the meantime, we need to continue to field offers from teams. Eventually, they will look at JO and see an enormous salary cut. That should get us a few assets in return...and help us crawl back to respectability. Good times are ahead. There's no question IMO that we will be a better team one year from now than we have been in the last few months. IOW, I think this club finally hit the very rock bottom...

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I am sooo thankful we did not acquire Carter. I am also no fan of JO, but he's probably worth 50% of his salary the way he's playing at the moment. I can put up with that opposed to seeing him on the bench. In the meantime, we need to continue to field offers from teams. Eventually, they will look at JO and see an enormous salary cut. That should get us a few assets in return...and help us crawl back to respectability. Good times are ahead. There's no question IMO that we will be a better team one year from now than we have been in the last few months. IOW, I think this club finally hit the very rock bottom...
    Vince had 32, 7 and 5 while shooting greater than 50% tonight. I dunno. I don't like him, but I think he has more value than JO.

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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    I've "listened" to the "JO's not earning his contract" argument for years now, and the one aspect to this debate continues to be, "Can he be that player who can take over a game at critical junctions and lead his team to victory"? In RC's system a healthy JO could have done it.


    He's still an interior post presence that demands respect, and he's still a defensive asset! It's just that JO's effectiveness won't be focused so much his offense, but rather his defense. And if he can still put up points, render an assist here and there, as well as rebound the ball, that's even better! But make no mistake: as long as Jim O'Brien is the head coach this team will be a uptempo, Guard oriented team...which isn't a bad thing.

    Coulda, woulda, shoulda does cut it. He didn't, that is the whole point! You simply refuse to admit JO isn't worth the salary he makes. How hard is it to admit he's not worth the 20 plus million max contract he's got? How hard is it to admit that 2 or 3 good players making his salary together are more beneficial than a 6 time 20/10 player who can't lead a team to the bathroom when their eyeballs are floating? He's not a game changer, never has been. He doesn't take over the game when it's on the line, and win the game. How many games in a season does he win for the team at crunch time when it counts? He's not a franchise player. Yet, let's continue to pay him 20 plus million a year to not be the franchise player, the go to player, but we can be guaranteed he will be injured numerous games each season. There comes a time when one has to come to the realization something just isn't worth it, and it's time to come to that conclusion about JO. JO's best days as a Pacer are behind him, and it's time to let it go along with him.

    JO's 20 plus million in salary for a player who's effectiveness in the future won't be focused on as a post player but rather his defensive that can't stand the rigors of a uptempo game with his health problems! That's worth 20 plus million dollars? Let's take his salary and use it on players that can play JO'B's game, who can play perimeter defense, create their own shots, and defend the middle. I believe that's more of a benefit to the Pacers future success.

    I don't want to hear the same story next year and the year after that JO is out with an injury with no time table for a recovery. JO out with an injury helps the team, just how? I must say I haven't missed JO not playing one iota. It has let other players develop their game this season. I guessed the Pacers would win 35-37 games this season, and without JO they are still on schedule. Doesn't say alot for JO now does it? Hopefully, Bird understands the samething!

    A backcourt player that plays defense and can create his own shot with a defensive player in the middle that can score 8-10 PPG makes JO and his 20 plus million salary really easy to live without.

    You are entitled to your opinion about JO as others are about theirs. This is JMO. I just hope Bird's and ownership's opinion are the same, to find a JO a new home for players that will be more beneficial to the Pacers future success.
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 04-06-2008 at 11:52 AM.

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    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Vince had 32, 7 and 5 while shooting greater than 50% tonight. I dunno. I don't like him, but I think he has more value than JO.
    Trade JO for Vince and their pick. Get Thabeet and Westbrook.
    Team completed and contends in the East.

    Something to think about.

    Why does either team do this?

    Pacers are rebuilding.
    NJ wants to bid for Lebron in 2 years when JO expires.
    Knicks want to do the same thing in the same town.
    A perfect set up for the Pacers to start a bidding war.
    JO is a valuable trading commodity and only gets more valuable as time goes by.
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Vince had 32, 7 and 5 while shooting greater than 50% tonight. I dunno. I don't like him, but I think he has more value than JO.
    Ya, Vince is a stud.. It's a risk to pull him in.. But think of it this way.. What team ISN'T thinking it's a risk to pull JO in??

    I think if he comes back fine from surgery then we should do a deal with them.

    The Vince/First pick for JO sounds good to me.

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    J.O. To The T.O. Oneal07's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSauceMaster View Post
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    So exactly what year is he going to be healthy ? What's it been like 3-4 years since he was healthy. I hear the speech every year of how he's going to be better and such. Yet what I see is someone overpaid and injured way to often. It's not like he hasn't had plenty of chances to shine.


    I'm no big fan of J.O. I just don't see how getting Vince Carter makes us better as a team. As bad as I would like to see us trade J.O , I don't think Vince Carter is the answer we are looking for.
    I understand the situation both ways, I'm not really being bias. I just know when he gets healthy people are gonna wish he was healthy here. When someone is hurt for a long period of time, they are not even worth their contract, whether it be 2.5 mill or 15 million. You pay players on what you think they are worth. Jermaine at the time was worth his contract. yea he hasn't lived up to it, but when healthy he is still capable of getting that big paycheck based on his resume alone. Guarantee you if Jermaine opts out this year, he can still get 15 million a season cause teams are willing to pay that price for him, whether you like him or not. because he's been hurt people forget what he can actually do on the court, and that's what you pay guys for. Injuries will always come, it's part of the game.

    If you watched the Boston game. When Jermaine came in the game, didn't you see How HARD Boston started to play. Those guys got scared of Jermaine, cause they know he can dominate. Started to play him physical and Jermaine was getting to the line and getting the respect calls. No one else on this team can get those calls. That's what those Big contract get you also.

    Also with Vince Carter, just by his Resume and what he brings he can get a BIG contract. It's what you can bring to a team drastically that gets you that big contract. They are what you call, Impact players. Joe Johnson got a big contract few years back, cause the team felt he is an impact player, and he is. If we had a healthy Jermaine this year, we would be in the playoffs right now. Why cause you have to respect what he brings.

    If Bird gave away Jermaine for Draft picks and BS players I would laugh hard
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    Default Re: Ankle surgery for Carter? Could empact Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ownagedood View Post
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    Ya, Vince is a stud.. It's a risk to pull him in.. But think of it this way.. What team ISN'T thinking it's a risk to pull JO in??

    I think if he comes back fine from surgery then we should do a deal with them.

    The Vince/First pick for JO sounds good to me.
    LOL, I'm happy you are not GM
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