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Thread: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1088/SPORTS04


    O'Neal returns tonight but won't start.
    By Mark Montieth
    Posted: March 31, 2008

    Jermaine O'Neal's return to the Indiana Pacers' lineup isn't just the start of a nine-game sprint to the season's finish line.
    It's the birth of what he views as a new phase in his NBA career, one he hopes is more productive and less painful than the past few seasons.

    O'Neal promises to be in the lineup tonight when the Pacers play Miami at Conseco Fieldhouse, making his first appearance since he played nine scoreless minutes against Golden State on Jan. 16.

    He has spent the past 21/2 months resting and rehabbing the left knee that was surgically repaired following last season. After two weeks of practice, he's ready to jump back in and see what he can contribute to a playoff run.

    He won't start, and he doesn't expect to play more than 20 minutes per game for awhile. His offensive skills are corroded, too.
    But he should be able to tend to his teammates' greatest need, which obviously and alarmingly is their porous defense. The Pacers are allowing 106.1 points per game, most since the 1992-93 season. If they are to overcome Atlanta's three-game lead for the Eastern Conference's eighth and final playoff spot, they'll no doubt have to do it by allowing fewer points.

    Enter O'Neal, the franchise's career leader in blocked shots and one of the NBA's best at taking charges.

    "I haven't lost my defensive rhythm," he said. "Offensively it's going to take me a couple of games to get myself together, but we don't need me as much offensively now.

    "If we play better defensively we can get in. I think I'll fit right in."

    Coach Jim O'Brien doesn't plan to ignore O'Neal on offense, however. Although the Pacers have gotten along without O'Neal offensively -- some would say better, because of the improved ball movement -- O'Brien longs for a low-post presence.

    If opponents continue to honor the Pacers' 3-point shooters, O'Neal should be able to score one-on-one around the basket. If opponents pay special attention to O'Neal, the Pacers' 3-point shooters, who rank seventh in league accuracy, should have more open looks.

    Regardless of what happens the rest of this season, O'Neal has committed to spending the summer in Las Vegas to participate in the Abunassar Impact Basketball academy.

    Joe Abunassar, a former student manager at Indiana University, has developed a popular offseason training program and facility that attracts about 40 NBA players each summer. Alums include Kevin Garnett, Chauncey Billups, Tayshaun Prince, Al Harrington, Baron Davis and Monta Ellis.

    O'Neal says he will move to his Las Vegas home one week after the season ends to begin reworking his body and game.
    If he can get through the end of this season without injury, it will mark the first time in at least five years that he hasn't entered the offseason needing extensive rest or rehabilitation. He plans to take advantage.

    "Joe's putting together a plan that I'm really excited about," O'Neal said.

    "It gives me an opportunity to develop my body . . . and understand why certain parts are breaking down."
    Ike Diogu also plans to participate, having accepted O'Neal's offer to live at his Vegas home this summer.

    For O'Neal, the summer and the remaining games of this season represent an opportunity to reclaim his status as a six-time All-Star.

    "I don't feel I have to prove anything to my doubters. I feel I need to prove it to myself," he said. "That I can get back and dominate once again. At 29, I'm not ready to give that up.

    "I'm going to get some things off my chest (on the court) next season, but it's going to start with me in the summertime."

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    Our hero! GrangerRanger's Avatar
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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    I really like the idea of Jermaine taking Ike under his wing. I'm surprised. Maybe he saw something.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangerRanger View Post
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    I really like the idea of Jermaine taking Ike under his wing. I'm surprised. Maybe he saw something.

    This is awesome, JO knows the score that he might not even be a Pacer next year and he's going out of his way to help Ike.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangerRanger View Post
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    I really like the idea of Jermaine taking Ike under his wing. I'm surprised. Maybe he saw something.
    He's come to the realization he and Ike won't be Pacers next season, so they need to improve themselves for their new teams.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    This is such an important time. JO's going to play somewhere next year regardless how he plays these last few games. However, his play will directly affect the Pacers future and what they can do this off season to improve.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Sounds like a cancerous me-first player. Cut him.
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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    With O'neal back we will make the playoffs and take out the Celtics in the first round. I will also be winning the Powerball this Saturday!!!!

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Myopic Me speaking:
    I would love to think that JO has found a re-appreation for the game. I woul love to think that maybe he feels forgotten about a bit, and feels like he has something to prove, and maybe even a new sense of maturity and ownership to make that happen, not just for himself, but for this team as well. I would love to think that he & Donnie talked about what other Pacer leaders (M.Jackson, A.Davis) have done - would do, & setting the example & taking on Ike sounds like just that. I would love it if JO found a spot for S.Williams - getting him away from "his boyz", & working on his game, & his body too. I would love to think that Larry & JO decieded to sit down & realized that they impact eachothers sucess (both w/ 2 yr left on their contracts). Larry has wanted JO to be more of a leader (fair or not), but I also think Larry has always seen more in JO then what JO saw in himself (or thought he was already, but wasn't). I would love to think maybe JO gets that now & that he & Larry could be on the same page & work together - esp. with this "leadership" & "commitment" display by JO a big first step. I would love for Larry to focus on moving Tin's & Daniels over JO this summer, as I see JO's value only increasing as his expiring 2010 contract approaches.

    Pesamistic Me says:
    JO likely knows (been told) that esp w/ Donnie gone, he is all but gone as well. Maybe there is a deal already out there (under the table) w/ he & Ike packaged. Maybe they have decieded they want to stick it to Larry for giving up on them, & this will be a form of showing LB up. If JO is moved he will likely bring back a disapointing sum, play healthy at an All-Star level again, & LB will face constant criticism from his critics for his remaining tenure.

    Only time will tell..........
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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Does anyone see any way that JO is in the long term plans? Other than being our most tradeable asset, I think I'm preferring of late to keep him, and to see what we can get for Tinsley and one of our plethora of wing players.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybegood View Post
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    Does anyone see any way that JO is in the long term plans? Other than being our most tradeable asset, I think I'm preferring of late to keep him, and to see what we can get for Tinsley and one of our plethora of wing players.
    That is just it. Right now his trade value is almost nothing - in fact I don't see how any team would take a chance on him right now. His salary, injuries - I suspect most teams figure his playing days are numbered, or at the very least they will take a wait and see approach before even considering trading for him.

    Of course the good news for the Pacers is he only has two years left on his contract, and his trade value will increase by powers of 100 in another 18 months. or if no one else wants him, we can let his contract just expire in two years.

    But back to your point, JO right now has less trade value than almost anyone on the Pacers team

    Trading JO this summer would be a huge mistake - one of the biggest the NBA Pacers have ever made.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    It's gonna be interesting Walsh always bought low, sold high, unless his hands were tied. I don't know that Bird is that savvy. JOs worth is as low as it can be and I really doubt 9 games can do anything about that.

    I think many are correct, his value will start to go up from here solely based on being an expiring contract.

    I'm in the camp, right now, that you don't just unload him unless you can get a very good lottery pick and/or a true point guard who can vehemently guard his position and run a team. I'm not sure that offer is out on the table anywhere.

    Lastly, not to hijack the thread, but a JO for Vince Carter swap is a huge step backwards now that I've had a chance to get over the trade deadline excitement. It hurts Granger and VC has already lost a quarter step and for his game that means all the world (see last Pacer/NJ game) and you take on another year of a contract past JOs current one.

    Bird needs to have a number one criteria in how he builds from this moment out. Does this player make guys around him better. Then you go from there.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybegood View Post
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    Does anyone see any way that JO is in the long term plans? Other than being our most tradeable asset, I think I'm preferring of late to keep him, and to see what we can get for Tinsley and one of our plethora of wing players.
    I have stated that I think JO's biggest value is his expiring 22 mil 2010 contract. LeBron, D-Wade, Bosh & others are all expiring that same summer, meaning teams like NY/NJ/Dallas (for starters) will likely be trying to clear room for a star. This is only 1 1/2 yr away. If JO can play even close to what h was 2 yr ago, & go into the '09-'10 season w/ a yr of health & production & 22 mil expiring, he will be a big markets wet dream. Trade his too soon, & you blow our "Lottery Ticket". He could be our "Hershal Walker" in rebuilding this team for yrs to come if we do it right (IMO).
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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    I think JO being traded depends alot on JO and how he checks out with our medical staff. If he is truly completely healthy and truly wants to stay lead by example and concentrate on his D and rebounding I think JO will be here at least another 2 years.

    If his heart is not in Indiana I believe he will be moved this off season. I believe a mature healthy JO is better than the bag of chips we can get for him. I don't want Vince Carter or any deal like that.

    As fans we can not know how he is acting behind the sinces and we will just have to wait and see what goes down.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    He's come to the realization he and Ike won't be Pacers next season, so they need to improve themselves for their new teams.
    WRONG!

    JO's not stupid!! He knows there is $44M on the table if he leaves. That's not something you pass up so easily. He knows his best chance to show the NBA world that he's not washed up or broke down is to get back to some form of training regimen where he can figure out a few things and then come back next year and really kick butt!

    It's noble of him to allow Ike to tag along...and smart! If I were him I'd extend that offer to DH as well. JO knows that if he can get one of these two onboard to really improve their game over the summer, the two of them combined can really work over the East. Imagine if you will having the JO of 3 years ago back with a more fundamentally sound Ike or a more patient DH who fouls less. Gives me chills just thinking 'bout it! But...

    Let's take care of the more immediate business of getting to the post-season first.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybegood View Post
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    Does anyone see any way that JO is in the long term plans? Other than being our most tradeable asset, I think I'm preferring of late to keep him, and to see what we can get for Tinsley and one of our plethora of wing players.
    I'd keep him.

    Let's be honest about a few things if we can for a second. JO's injuries didn't start to become a problem until after he had spent those 2-3 consecutive years as part of the Men's USA Basketball team. Once the injuries started mounting he would spend most of his summers rehabing and not going through the type of skills training he spoke of in the article that most of his counterparts participate in during the off-season. So, while he's nursing injuries, everyone else was out getting better. And while they've come back to start the pre-season in better game shape, he's still behind the 8-ball training trying to work himself back into game form only to find that the injury bugs has bitten him once again.

    I'm all for keeping JO because I know what he can bring even as an injured player, but I want him healthy again coming into next year. I think what we've seen w/this current roster is the Pacers can do w/o Jamaal, but they can't do without a skilled defender in the low-post. And regardless of how most feel about him, JO IS the best post-defender we have. So, unless we're able to trade for another interior defender, I'm for keeping JO and trading away some of our other Bigs (except for Jeff "Mr. Hustle" Foster...unless Ike or DH really comes around).

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    I'd keep him.

    Let's be honest about a few things if we can for a second. JO's injuries didn't start to become a problem until after he had spent those 2-3 consecutive years as part of the Men's USA Basketball team. Once the injuries started mounting he would spend most of his summers rehabing and not going through the type of skills training he spoke of in the article that most of his counterparts participate in during the off-season. So, while he's nursing injuries, everyone else was out getting better. And while they've come back to start the pre-season in better game shape, he's still behind the 8-ball training trying to work himself back into game form only to find that the injury bugs has bitten him once again.

    I'm all for keeping JO because I know what he can bring even as an injured player, but I want him healthy again coming into next year. I think what we've seen w/this current roster is the Pacers can do w/o Jamaal, but they can't do without a skilled defender in the low-post. And regardless of how most feel about him, JO IS the best post-defender we have. So, unless we're able to trade for another interior defender, I'm for keeping JO and trading away some of our other Bigs (except for Jeff "Mr. Hustle" Foster...unless Ike or DH really comes around).

    Not to nitpick, but Foster is the teams best Low post defender. JO is the best shot blocker/weak side defender but he's merely average to me as a one on one low post defender. Just my opinion, of course.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    I know the feeling at this moment is optimistic with JO coming back and saying he's going to regroup this summer and all that, but let's not forget that we've heard time and time again from JO how he's going to change this and that. How many times has he said he was going to step up and be a leader? I like JO and I want him to be the JO of old, but let's step back and make him show us something before we all think he's our savior again.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    That is just it. Right now his trade value is almost nothing - in fact I don't see how any team would take a chance on him right now. His salary, injuries - I suspect most teams figure his playing days are numbered, or at the very least they will take a wait and see approach before even considering trading for him.

    Of course the good news for the Pacers is he only has two years left on his contract, and his trade value will increase by powers of 100 in another 18 months. or if no one else wants him, we can let his contract just expire in two years.

    But back to your point, JO right now has less trade value than almost anyone on the Pacers team

    Trading JO this summer would be a huge mistake - one of the biggest the NBA Pacers have ever made.
    Seriously. I agree with this 100%

    O'Brien did say he wants to coach Jermaine until his contract is up
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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    If, by some miracle, we were to get a top-3 pick in the lottery and get D.Rose, we'd be a championship contender before Jermaine's contract was up.

    EDIT: I'm trying not to think about it, though, because it's not going to happen and I don't want to be disappointed when I find out we don't get a top-3 pick (which I know we won't).
    Last edited by Anthem; 03-31-2008 at 01:18 PM.
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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    If, by some miracle, we were to get a top-3 pick in the lottery and get D.Rose, we'd be a championship contender before Jermaine's contract was up.

    EDIT: I'm trying not to think about it, though, because it's not going to happen and I don't want to be disappointed when I find out we don't get a top-3 pick (which I know we won't).
    We will probably move up . . . to number three . . . since there's only two obvious difference makers in this draft, Beasley and Rose.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    We will probably move up . . . to number three . . . since there's only two obvious difference makers in this draft, Beasley and Rose.
    What will this cost?

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    I still maintain that a JONeal that was playing at 75% would have made a bigger difference then if we waited a full week for him to return. As the Nets Road game proved....every game counts...cuz we would only be 2 games out instead of 3 when the Hawks lost that night as well to the Bulls.

    Knowing that we have to be perfect for the rest of this season in order to even have a chance at making the Playoffs....you have to ask why he is playing at this point. IMHO...it's cuz he is being showcased to show that he isn't gimpy going into the offseason showing other GMs that he isn't "damaged goods"....not because we are making a Playoff push.

    This last season has shown ( at least to me ) that GMs are willing to take a risk on Difference makers even if they have big Contracts and injury risk....especially if that difference maker has been sitting for 1/3 of a season while having a HUGE Expiring contract before the 2010-2011 season while making $43+ million over 2 seasons instead of $64 mil over 3 seasons.

    Also....I wonder if one of the reasons ( but not the main reason ) why JONeal hasn't been traded all these years is because of Walsh's love of JONeal's game. With Bird running the ship and the known "love/hate" relationship that the both of them share for each other....if the right deal comes along.....I can see Bird moving JONeal just to move beyond the JONeal years. TPTB already have an idea about how much he could fetch...which probably isn't that much prior to the trade deadline. This is the only reason why I think that he is playing now......to simply show that he is still capable of playing at an acceptable level given his contract.

    Obviously...if the price isn't right...then Bird will live with him for another season then try again later.
    Last edited by CableKC; 03-31-2008 at 02:34 PM.
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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    What will this cost?
    He's being ironical.

    He's saying that with our luck, we'd "win" the lottery but get the #3 pick and miss out on both Beasely and Rose.

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    The race for the worst possible draft position begins tonight!

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    Default Re: O'Neal returns tonight but won't start. 03/31/08

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Obviously...if the price isn't right...
    It won't be.
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