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Important question for all non-Pacers fans

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  • #16
    Re: Important question for all non-Pacers fans

    The deal would only work out good for Indiana if this really helps them score more points; they'll need the extra points without Artest on D. And to do that, you need more than one guy (Ray Allen). If an Artest trade like that goes through, it would be stupid not to try and pickup more offensive free agents or work out more trades benefitting the Pacers.

    s:

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Important question for all non-Pacers fans

      Kstat- completely agree on Al H., his defense is not that good and is mistakenly over-rated. I see him get burned time and time again.

      Like someone recently said, we need to boost the offense a little bit without losing the defensive player of the year.

      Would Detroit get rid of Ben Wallace because he has flaws in his offensive game??? I sure as hell would NOT!! Ben missed some point blank shots in game 6 and no one is calling for his head.

      Defense is HUGE in this league and tenacious defenders with a bonus of offensive skills is virtually unheard of in the NBA.

      We'd have to get a monster deal in exchange for the defensive player of the year that included a master defender, because there isn't anyone else on the current Pacers roster anywhere near Ron's defensive ability.

      Water

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Important question for all non-Pacers fans

        Why would you want ANOTHER franchise player? (Ray Allen, isn't one by the way, he's like Redd a productive substitute for a franchise player) Last I looked J.O was Indy's franchise.

        Indy needs an outside shooter. One guy who can consistently knock down open to semi-contested shots from outside the 14-16 foot range. Its ridiculous to break-up your whole team concept for that one person.

        Don't forget who coaches the Pacers. Rick, call a play on every possession, never run the ball up court unless you have an obvious advantage, take time off the clock even in the first quarter, Carlisle. The Pacers are NEVER going to average 100 pts/game even with T-Mac AND Allen. (This is not a slight, its simply a fact about the Pacer's style of play.)

        Leave the superstar sweepstakes to teams with no hope next year if they don't get a superstar. Go get someone like Carl English or Joseph Forte, a young Glen Rice type.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Important question for all non-Pacers fans

          Indy needs an outside shooter. One guy who can consistently knock down open to semi-contested shots from outside the 14-16 foot range.
          I think Reggie can still do this if he would be willing to actually take shots!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Important question for all non-Pacers fans

            I can't make this clear enough: Ron Artest has a SPECIAL talent for Defense, as Ben Wallace does. You cannot replace that no matter how many GOOD defenders you aquire. Its like replacing a 30ppg scorer with two 15ppg scorers.
            very good analogy. ron is special. it would take a special trade to pry him away.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Important question for all non-Pacers fans

              I really want to know what you non-Pacer fans think, I know many have left us after the Pistons series, but I want to know what a fan of other teams think.

              Let's assume the Pacers trade Artest for a starting shooting guard of the caliber of Ray Allen, would the Pacers be easier to beat with the following starting 5, vs their current starting 5.

              Tinsley
              Allen
              Harrington
              J.O
              Foster.
              Yes you guys would then be easier to beat IMO.

              First off you would be forcing Harrington into the starters role; he may blossom in that role but he could equally show that he is better suited as a 6th man. There have been many players over the years who are at their best playing against 2nd units as 6th men; Aaron McKie is a perfect example when he is forced to start the 1st couple games he can look great but over the long run he starts to struggle and you find out why he is best suited as a 6th man I think Harrington's best role is coming off the bench and if he was relied on to start 82 games he would transgress and not be as productive as he is in his current role. Also you would be weakening your 2nd unit considerably by starting him.

              Second, losing Artest you would lose championship quality intangibles that I saw him bring to your team this season. The grit and the ability to take the challenge of defending the stud scorers of the other team; who would fill the void as your "defensive stopper" with Artest gone? The first time Pierce dropped 45 or TMac dropped 50 against the Pacers you would be praying you had Artest back in there. You simply can't lose your best defensive player and expect to stay at the same level as a team trust me I know when we lossed our best defensive player in Ratliff the defense really suffered and you wouldn't just be able to throw anybody in there to replace Artest.

              Third, the Pacers have great chemistry, by moving Artest your taking out a huge part of that chemistry and you just don't know if Allen will fit in as nicely and whether the chemistry would click. Just my opinion but if I'm the Pacers I don't pull a Larry Brown this offseason and change key ingredients like Artest I would just slightly tweak the roster by adding a more productive starting two guard unless you get an offer you can't refuse like Harrington for Ray Allen etc.,, But to me Artest and JO would be untouchable unless your getting an elite superstar like McGrady in return. So I think you would be easier to beat, your defense would be weaker, your bench would be weaker, you would lose mental toughness, your offense would probably be slightly better unless Harrington struggled then it would be about the same.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Important question for all non-Pacers fans

                Third, the Pacers have great chemistry, by moving Artest your taking out a huge part of that chemistry and you just don't know if Allen will fit in as nicely and whether the chemistry would click.
                Interesting that the out-of-town perspective is that the chemistry is good; because its something that has been in the back of my head all season. Chemistry was clearly bad the previous season, and winning certainly masked those problems this season. But I'm not yet convinced that we truly have great chemistry.
                Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                And life itself, rushing over me
                Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Important question for all non-Pacers fans

                  Yes you guys would then be easier to beat IMO.

                  First off you would be forcing Harrington into the starters role; he may blossom in that role but he could equally show that he is better suited as a 6th man. There have been many players over the years who are at their best playing against 2nd units as 6th men; Aaron McKie is a perfect example when he is forced to start the 1st couple games he can look great but over the long run he starts to struggle and you find out why he is best suited as a 6th man I think Harrington's best role is coming off the bench and if he was relied on to start 82 games he would transgress and not be as productive as he is in his current role. Also you would be weakening your 2nd unit considerably by starting him.

                  Second, losing Artest you would lose championship quality intangibles that I saw him bring to your team this season. The grit and the ability to take the challenge of defending the stud scorers of the other team; who would fill the void as your "defensive stopper" with Artest gone? The first time Pierce dropped 45 or TMac dropped 50 against the Pacers you would be praying you had Artest back in there. You simply can't lose your best defensive player and expect to stay at the same level as a team trust me I know when we lossed our best defensive player in Ratliff the defense really suffered and you wouldn't just be able to throw anybody in there to replace Artest.

                  Third, the Pacers have great chemistry, by moving Artest your taking out a huge part of that chemistry and you just don't know if Allen will fit in as nicely and whether the chemistry would click. Just my opinion but if I'm the Pacers I don't pull a Larry Brown this offseason and change key ingredients like Artest I would just slightly tweak the roster by adding a more productive starting two guard unless you get an offer you can't refuse like Harrington for Ray Allen etc.,, But to me Artest and JO would be untouchable unless your getting an elite superstar like McGrady in return. So I think you would be easier to beat, your defense would be weaker, your bench would be weaker, you would lose mental toughness, your offense would probably be slightly better unless Harrington struggled then it would be about the same.

                  Great, great stuff as always DD.

                  One thing I fear is the Pacers doing what the Sixers did over the past 3 seasons. Sixers kept trading one good defender after another until they finally hit rock bottom by acquiring Glenn Robinson. All everyone ever said is the Sixers needed another scorer, well they traded for a few scorers over the past two seasons who were horrible defenders, and the net result was the Sixers were worse after they acquired their "scorers"

                  That is what I call fantasy league basketball. it might look good on paper it might sound good in theory , but all of a sudden you wake up one day and you discover your team stinks. And I'll tell you, it does not take but one or two moves for a team to take a quick turn south.

                  Pacers need to be very careful this summer

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Important question for all non-Pacers fans

                    who would fill the void as your "defensive stopper" with Artest gone? The first time Pierce dropped 45 or TMac dropped 50 against the Pacers you would be praying you had Artest back in there.
                    Well, the only time I saw TMac in person this year, Ron held him to 43. Since he didn't let him get to 50 I guess we should let Ron hang around............ :P
                    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Important question for all non-Pacers fans

                      Yes you guys would then be easier to beat IMO.

                      First off you would be forcing Harrington into the starters role; he may blossom in that role but he could equally show that he is better suited as a 6th man. There have been many players over the years who are at their best playing against 2nd units as 6th men; Aaron McKie is a perfect example when he is forced to start the 1st couple games he can look great but over the long run he starts to struggle and you find out why he is best suited as a 6th man I think Harrington's best role is coming off the bench and if he was relied on to start 82 games he would transgress and not be as productive as he is in his current role. Also you would be weakening your 2nd unit considerably by starting him.

                      Second, losing Artest you would lose championship quality intangibles that I saw him bring to your team this season. The grit and the ability to take the challenge of defending the stud scorers of the other team; who would fill the void as your "defensive stopper" with Artest gone? The first time Pierce dropped 45 or TMac dropped 50 against the Pacers you would be praying you had Artest back in there. You simply can't lose your best defensive player and expect to stay at the same level as a team trust me I know when we lossed our best defensive player in Ratliff the defense really suffered and you wouldn't just be able to throw anybody in there to replace Artest.

                      Third, the Pacers have great chemistry, by moving Artest your taking out a huge part of that chemistry and you just don't know if Allen will fit in as nicely and whether the chemistry would click. Just my opinion but if I'm the Pacers I don't pull a Larry Brown this offseason and change key ingredients like Artest I would just slightly tweak the roster by adding a more productive starting two guard unless you get an offer you can't refuse like Harrington for Ray Allen etc.,, But to me Artest and JO would be untouchable unless your getting an elite superstar like McGrady in return. So I think you would be easier to beat, your defense would be weaker, your bench would be weaker, you would lose mental toughness, your offense would probably be slightly better unless Harrington struggled then it would be about the same.

                      Great, great stuff as always DD.

                      One thing I fear is the Pacers doing what the Sixers did over the past 3 seasons. Sixers kept trading one good defender after another until they finally hit rock bottom by acquiring Glenn Robinson. All everyone ever said is the Sixers needed another scorer, well they traded for a few scorers over the past two seasons who were horrible defenders, and the net result was the Sixers were worse after they acquired their "scorers"

                      That is what I call fantasy league basketball. it might look good on paper it might sound good in theory , but all of a sudden you wake up one day and you discover your team stinks. And I'll tell you, it does not take but one or two moves for a team to take a quick turn south.

                      Pacers need to be very careful this summer
                      But that followed years of trading other scorers so that Iverson would have players he would work with. (notice I said would not could)

                      Philly is NOT a good example of trading.

                      Artest would not be traded because of ability. If he is traded you can rest assured that there is another reason for it.


                      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Important question for all non-Pacers fans

                        Interesting that the out-of-town perspective is that the chemistry is good; because its something that has been in the back of my head all season. Chemistry was clearly bad the previous season, and winning certainly masked those problems this season. But I'm not yet convinced that we truly have great chemistry.
                        Hi Jay, being on the outside looking in it appeared the Pacers had great chemistry. But I only watched at most 15-20% of the Pacers games this season so my perspective is probably flawed. Like you mentioned winning tends to hide alot of problems; I'm guessing that behind the scenes things may have been different with Harrington wanting to start etc.,, but you guys have far greater insight watching the team and witnessing the nuances and actions of players during timeouts, how they interact with the coach etc.,, that as an outside fan I don't see or read about.

                        That is what I call fantasy league basketball. it might look good on paper it might sound good in theory , but all of a sudden you wake up one day and you discover your team stinks. And I'll tell you, it does not take but one or two moves for a team to take a quick turn south.

                        Pacers need to be very careful this summer
                        Larry is a great coach but man he has a love/hate relationship with players; as a GM he loved to tinker and overhaul the roster every summer/trade deadline. Detoit fans are lucky LB isn't running the show there. Your right all it takes is one or two bad moves to put you in the lottery.

                        Well, the only time I saw TMac in person this year, Ron held him to 43. Since he didn't let him get to 50 I guess we should let Ron hang around............ :P
                        See what happens when you don't watch a team all season.
                        Artest would not be traded because of ability. If he is traded you can rest assured that there is another reason for it.
                        Your right Peck, there could be a ton of things going on behind the scenes that I have no clue about in terms of his relationship with Carlisle, practice habits etc.,, that could lead the organization to want to move him. I can only speak for his on court ability and even then I only see a limited amount of Pacers games.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Important question for all non-Pacers fans

                          I really want to know what you non-Pacer fans think, I know many have left us after the Pistons series, but I want to know what a fan of other teams think.

                          Let's assume the Pacers trade Artest for a starting shooting guard of the caliber of Ray Allen, would the Pacers be easier to beat with the following starting 5, vs their current starting 5.

                          Tinsley
                          Allen
                          Harrington
                          J.O
                          Foster.
                          Yes you guys would then be easier to beat IMO.

                          First off you would be forcing Harrington into the starters role; he may blossom in that role but he could equally show that he is better suited as a 6th man. There have been many players over the years who are at their best playing against 2nd units as 6th men; Aaron McKie is a perfect example when he is forced to start the 1st couple games he can look great but over the long run he starts to struggle and you find out why he is best suited as a 6th man I think Harrington's best role is coming off the bench and if he was relied on to start 82 games he would regress and not be as productive as he is in his current role. Also you would be weakening your 2nd unit considerably by starting him.

                          Second, losing Artest you would lose championship quality intangibles that I saw him bring to your team this season. The grit and the ability to take the challenge of defending the stud scorers of the other team; who would fill the void as your "defensive stopper" with Artest gone? The first time Pierce dropped 45 or TMac dropped 50 against the Pacers you would be praying you had Artest back in there. You simply can't lose your best defensive player and expect to stay at the same level as a team trust me I know when we lossed our best defensive player in Ratliff the defense really suffered and you wouldn't just be able to throw anybody in there to replace Artest.

                          Third, the Pacers have great chemistry, by moving Artest your taking out a huge part of that chemistry and you just don't know if Allen will fit in as nicely and whether the chemistry would click. Just my opinion but if I'm the Pacers I don't pull a Larry Brown this offseason and change key ingredients like Artest I would just slightly tweak the roster by adding a more productive starting two guard unless you get an offer you can't refuse like Harrington for Ray Allen etc.,, But to me Artest and JO would be untouchable unless your getting an elite superstar like McGrady in return. So I think you would be easier to beat, your defense would be weaker, your bench would be weaker, you would lose mental toughness, your offense would probably be slightly better unless Harrington struggled then it would be about the same.

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