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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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What to believe?

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  • #1

    What to believe?

    WHAT TO BELIEVE?

    I read this forum and others and it troubles me to see so many yearning for something to believe in, but because of today’s mass media, and the Internet, knowing what is true and what is not, is growing ever harder. So many of you have no doubt that there is a God, but when you see so many differing religions and conflicting views you throw your hands up in defeat.

    What do you do when there are so many choices? Where do you start?

    For those interested, I say don't give up, to keep looking! Why?

    Ask yourself this question, how many religions did Christ Jesus start?

    The obvious answer is he started one religion. At John 14:6, Jesus said, " . . . I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

    Furthermore, Jesus told his disciples at Matthew 28:18-20, to go and make disciples of all the nations . . . and to teach these new disciples everything he had taught them.

    Since Jesus had told his disciples to teach these new disciples everything he had taught them. It would follow that the new disciples would then make more disciples and they in turn would teach what they had been taught. Thus there would be a growing crowd of Christians all being taught the same thing, that being, what Jesus taught his first disciples.

    WHY ARE THERE SO MANY DIFFERENT RELIGIONS?

    One Christian Encyclopedia says there are 34,000 separate Christian groups in the world today. Over half of them are independent churches that are not interested in linking with the big denominations. Differences among Christian faith groups are so great that some observers have suggested that a useful way of classifying Christian groups is to view them as a number of separate religions with different beliefs and practices, who share, 1. The name "Christianity," 2. The text of the Bible, and 3. Not a great deal else.

    Since there are now so many denominations, sects, and cults that claim to be Christian, and since they teach conflicting doctrines and hold their members to different standards of conduct, clearly they are not all teaching what Jesus taught his disciples to teach others. The question that naturally arises is, 'How come there are now so many religions claiming to be Christian?'

    Jesus foretold there would be. At Matthew 7:15, he says, "Beware of the false teachers--men who come to you in sheep's fleeces, but beneath that disguise they are ravenous wolves."

    We see Jesus told his disciples to teach, but he also warned of false teachers. Also, one of Jesus disciples, the Apostle Paul, said at Acts 20:29-30, "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves."

    From the very start of Christianity there were warnings that there would be those who would speak twisted things and draw disciples after themselves. Jesus said there would be false teachers, and the Apostle Paul adds that after he was gone there would be men that would speak twisted things and draw the disciples after themselves. This would be the start of false Christian religions.

    Other scriptures say much the same thing, for instance, (1 Timothy 4:1) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons . . .

    (2 Timothy 4:3) For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled;

    Another scripture shows who's behind all these false religions. Second Corinthians 11:14,15, says, . . . Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works.

    Note that their 'end shall be according to their works,' or what they do.

    At 2 Peter 2:1,2, the Apostle Peter says, “However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects . . .

    Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively.”

    Notice that all these false religions will cause even the true one to be spoken of abusively. We can see the truth of that scripture right here on this forum where all Christian religions are disparagingly lumped together and called 'organized religion.'

    DO WE NEED AN ORGANIZED RELIGION?

    Many will ask, "As long as we don't hurt other people what is wrong with serving God in our own way?"

    A counter question to that is, “How can we serve God doing things our own way, when he’s given instructions on how to serve and please him?”
    Another question to ask ourselves is, "When we were children and our parents told us to do something and we didn't do it, were they pleased?"

    It's the same in this case. Why would we think God would be pleased if we don't follow his instructions? Above, we read where the bible warns about being splintered off into sects, so how many more ways would we be splinted if we each tried to serve God in our own way? And how would we be serving God by doing things our own way? When we are serving someone, don't we do as they want, not as we want? The bible says at 1st Corinthians 1:10, "Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all say the same thing, and that there be not among you divisions; but that ye be perfectly united in the same mind and in the same opinion."

    We couldn't do what 1st Corinthians 1:10 tells us to do if tried to serve God in our own way. So it follows we have to be part of an organization.

    The church Jesus started was organized into congregations. This is shown in several scriptures, one example is Colossians 4:14-16 which says, "Luke the beloved physician sends YOU his greetings, and so does Démas. Give my greetings to the brothers at La·o·di·céa and to Nyḿpha and to the congregation at her house. And when this letter has been read among YOU, arrange that it also be read in the congregation of the La·o·di·céans and that YOU also read the one from La·o·di·céa."

    Another scripture, Hebrews 10:24,25 says, . . . let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near.

    So we see the church Jesus started was organized into congregations and instructed to meet together to encourage each other to do fine works and to love one another. We also see there were multiple congregations getting the same information.

    HOW DO WE FIND THE RELIGION CHRIST STARTED?

    Where do we find the rules for governing Christians? Where else but in the bible.

    Some have reservations about the bible. However, the bible has already helped us in partially identifying the true religion.

    From what we have already learned we can see that the church Jesus started would be affiliated with other congregations. That in affect eliminates the many non-denomination church's that are not affiliated with any other church's. How could they be his church if they are not part of an organization making disciples world wide as Jesus said to do at Matthew 28:18-20, quoted earlier?

    Jesus says at Matthew 15:21, "Not every one who says to me, `Master, Master,' will enter the Kingdom of the Heavens, but only those who are obedient to my Father who is in Heaven."

    So the bible gives us another identifying mark of the true religion. Notice you have to be obedient. But how can we be obedient unless we know what rules we have to be obedient to? Thus God gave mankind the bible.

    Ask yourself this question. If you were the almighty, and you had a bible inspired as a message for all mankind, would you allow it to be changed and polluted so people couldn't get the sense of it? It’s nonsense to believe in an almighty God that created everything and not believe he couldn’t keep that from happening.

    A lot of people will make varying claims about the bible's authenticity, it's truthfulness, etc. However, when you study the bible you will find that it doesn't contradict itself as so many say it does. The historical accuracy of the bible was once widely doubted, but discoveries have verified one account after another.

    There’s thousands of statements made in the bible that are true, but someone will find something they don’t believe or at first glance doesn’t ring true and they will immediately conclude the whole bible is false. If you had a companion that told you a thousand things that were all true, would you then immediately doubt their word if they told you something that seemed incorrect or false? You wouldn’t approach it that way would you? That’s what people do with the bible though. Some people don’t like reading and studying anything, let alone the bible, so some take the first opportunity to opt out. However, if you have read any of the bible or heard bible stories you will realize God doesn’t care for wishy-washy people.

    Proverbs the 2nd chapter talks about searching for knowledge of God like you are searching for hidden treasures. How hard would you search if you knew there was a treasure in your back yard? Most of us wouldn’t quit looking until we found the treasure would we? In other words you have to really want to understand God’s word.

    I’m getting a bit off track.

    When the bible makes statements on the sciences it is correct. Isaiah 40:22 says, "There is one dwelling above the circle of the earth." This was written more than 2,000 years before men ascertained that fact.

    Some will say the bible hasn't been translated correctly, but we have over 50 bibles now translated into English by 50 some different bible committees, and all these translations say essentially the same thing. The only true differences being those of theology, and not translation errors.

    The bible has come down to us the way God intended so that we can read in it and then become obedient to the instructions found there. The bible alone tells us what we must do to please God. And it's in the bible that we find the means to identify the true religion from all the false ones.

    Now, if you don’t know what the bible says, there’s no way you can determine which religion Jesus started. The only way to know is to read the bible and then compare what the bible says with what the various religions teach.

    INTERPRETATIONS

    Different interpretations of various scriptures are one of the reasons there are so many different religions. Instead of being united in the same opinion as instructed at 1st Corinthians 1:10, people and religions have their own pet theories as to what scriptures mean. However, the bible itself says at Genesis 40:8 that “interpretations belong to God.”

    Now we don’t have any prophets or apostles with us today to explain things to us, but we don’t need them since that’s one of the reasons God gave us the bible. What should be done, is let the bible interpret itself. I’ll give an example.

    Revelation 20:1, says, “And I saw new heavens and a new earth–for the former heavens and the former earth are gone, and the sea no longer exists . . .”
    Now taking the above scripture at face value what would you say it means when it says the sea no longer exists?

    Using the bible to interpret the bible gives us an answer. Isaiah 57:20 says, “The wicked however are like the restless sea that cannot be still, whose waters throw up mud and dirt.”

    By using the bible to interpret the bible we see that when Revelation 20:1, talks about the sea that no longer exists it’s referring to wicked people.

    Now the question you have to immediately ask yourself is does that interpretation go along with the rest of the bible? The answer is yes, other scriptures show that the wicked will be destroyed. That interpretation also goes along with the context of that scripture that refers to a new heavens and a new earth, since the wicked won’t be there.

    So, a question you have to ask yourself is, “Does this religion use the bible to interpret the bible? Or do they have a man’s interpretation?”

    The question is, are you going to search for the religion Jesus started, or are you going to hope in pot luck? If you are going to search, start reading your bible.

    One note of caution, don’t use a paraphrased bible, use a word for word translation. Paraphrased bible’s are the author’s interpretation of what a scripture means.
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  • #2
    Re: What to believe?

    Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
    WHAT TO BELIEVE?


    One note of caution, don’t use a paraphrased bible, use a word for word translation. Paraphrased bible’s are the author’s interpretation of what a scripture means.

    so, then we all need to learn Greek & Hebrew?..
    just kidding, I enjoyed the read

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: What to believe?

      Great stuff, Will: insightful from start to finish.
      And I won't be here to see the day
      It all dries up and blows away
      I'd hang around just to see
      But they never had much use for me
      In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: What to believe?

        One thought: when you consult the Bible to interpret the Bible, you are picking the passages you deem relevant, and the ones to which you apply those passages.

        Interpretation is a basic component of communication. It is unavoidable.


        [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: What to believe?

          Originally posted by kester99 View Post
          One thought: when you consult the Bible to interpret the Bible, you are picking the passages you deem relevant, and the ones to which you apply those passages.
          True, however as I touched on, the interpretation has to go along with other scriptures, and it can't be out of context.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: What to believe?

            This can be done in good conscience and with confidence if your scholarship is adequate.

            Example: Paul demands in one place that his follower Timothy be circumcised. In another place, Paul says people who require circumcision ought to be completely castrated.

            But there is no contradiction in it, because the circumstances were different. Paul was preparing Timothy to be a witness among Jews (Acts 16:3) who respected circumcision and would respect Timothy more if he followed the custom. In the other case he was instructing the church at Galatia (Galatians 5:2-12) who had no need for the tradition, not being Jews themselves. So Paul is consistent in these two places.

            From the first I can draw the lesson that in order to be a witness I am allowed to and should respect the people I am witnessing to and that I ought to begin by trying to be honorable in their sight. From the other, I learn that Christianity is not obliged to keep up Hebrew (or other) traditions in order to be effective.

            Right?
            And I won't be here to see the day
            It all dries up and blows away
            I'd hang around just to see
            But they never had much use for me
            In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: What to believe?

              Originally posted by Putnam View Post
              This can be done in good conscience and with confidence if your scholarship is adequate.

              Example: Paul demands in one place that his follower Timothy be circumcised. In another place, Paul says people who require circumcision ought to be completely castrated.

              But there is no contradiction in it, because the circumstances were different. Paul was preparing Timothy to be a witness among Jews (Acts 16:3) who respected circumcision and would respect Timothy more if he followed the custom. In the other case he was instructing the church at Galatia (Galatians 5:2-12) who had no need for the tradition, not being Jews themselves. So Paul is consistent in these two places.

              From the first I can draw the lesson that in order to be a witness I am allowed to and should respect the people I am witnessing to and that I ought to begin by trying to be honorable in their sight. From the other, I learn that Christianity is not obliged to keep up Hebrew (or other) traditions in order to be effective.

              Right?
              The above is a good example of the bible seemingly contradicting itself. You pointed out it doesn't.

              Comment

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