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Thread: Keep Shawne Williams!

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Keep Shawne Williams!

    This is not a "he's innocent" thread. I've defended his right to be properly judged, but that is not why I'm posting this. My understanding is that the truth on his situation is not as clean as you'd like it to be, as in he knew the guy better than suggested.

    BUT...that dude is now gone. Tennessee is dealing with that for us. Certainly Shawne has other friends in that circle, but this can be addressed.

    1) He's young and IMO the team not only has the ability, but also the responsibility to get involved more in his life. He might not like it but it's for his own good. He's a big investment and I'd suggest that the Pacers need to interact with him like a family member would.

    Anything a good father or mother or grandparent or uncle wouldn't approve of, any action or interaction they would pursue to help him should also be on the table for the team. They need to act like they care and make sure he is shown the way to a more responsible, adult life that doesn't require him to be a jerk to his childhood friends.

    Show him how to pull them out of trouble with him, rather than lingering down in their lives. Maybe a financial adviser could council him on how he and a buddy could get into a small business that gives his friend some real direction. That way he's not just living off of Shawne and starts to move into a different class of person himself, making him far more suitable as a friend of Shawne.

    Don't tell me the Pacers or his agent (or some new agent) have no awareness of how to make something like this happen in a responsible way, much more than just "this is the dude that washes my car, this is the dude that mows my lawn" with all the depth of "my freeloading friends".


    2) Having done that, Shawne has shown that he is the most athletic player they have. He is smooth on drives, a strong finisher at the rim (who can fly in for a dunk better than him right now), has a great shot, and has the ability to defend nearly as well as Danny (though more as a PF).

    His awareness has been rough, but Granger still deals with that even now. This is what coaching, maturing and flat-out playing time help solve. Shawne has already exhibited a real savvy for drawing fouls and coming up big in the clutch. Vs Chicago we just saw him block DENG (a near AS player) and then come back to hit a big jumper at the other end in the waning minutes of the game.


    3) We've got too many SFs? Well 3 is not too many when they are always playing SG/SF or SF/PF as has been the case. On top of that Shawne costs significantly less than Dun. And of the 3 Dun is by far the most one-end player. His value is high right now and makes a solid asset to adjust the roster.

    Keep him (Dun) if you want since he does make the offense go, but also understand that he's not ultimately going to be the top 2 guy of an elite team. That implies building on other players, and even if Shawne isn't a top 2, he is a guy that can play INSTEAD OF Dun so that you can use Dun to help move toward getting a true top 2 prospect as part of a rebuild.



    So keep Shawne, he plays a great game and gets better as time goes by, and take some responsibility with your investment rather than letting him float by. You change the oil on your car, get it tuned up, wash it, etc. That's because you CARE about keeping your investment in good shape. The Pacers should do the same with Shawne, and clearly up till now they haven't.

    Get a detective, check into who else is showing up in Shawne's life, and if any other "friends" are in similar situations then you confront him with it. If he rebukes that help and insists on staying in that world fully after you've tried to help him out, THEN you send him packing with a clear conscious that you honestly tried.

    Until then, keep him rather than scapegoating him for the very culture of players you brought him into.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-23-2008 at 02:28 PM.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Sorry Anthem, your own thread with some similar themes didn't pop up when I started mine (suggested similar threads that is).

    The link to that since it's relevent
    http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-...23&postcount=1

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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    While I have nothing to say about Shawne, I can in no way condone trading Mike Dunleavy. He's the best player on our team. For a franchise severely lacking talent, that would just be stupid.

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    I'm glad to see that Shawne is apparently out of the doghouse and making the best of it. Y'all know how high I am on him.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    While I have nothing to say about Shawne, I can in no way condone keeping Mike Dunleavy. He's the 3rd most expensive player on our team. For a franchise severely lacking money, that would just be brilliant.
    Fixed. In your face Flanders.

    How many playoff teams has Dun been on? For how many coaches?
    X-Files or is there something to it?

    Like what Troy is doing too, but the fact is that the Pacers need to turn the JO/Troy/Dun money into something A LOT more productive than what they can get from Dun/Shawne/Foster.


    And I did say I can see the point to keeping him, he does make the JIM O'BRIEN offense run. Of course if you ultimately find fault with his coaching and swap him out, then maybe you get the Montgomery, Nellie, Rick Dun instead.

    I also hate that he makes it 5 on 4 at the other end.

    Making playoffs now, you need Mike. Making the ECF 4 years from now when the prospects are coming into their own, you don't have Mike as part of that.

    If Detlef was tradeable for defensive reasons, WTF does that make Dunleavy. Because Dun ain't no Det.

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    Member esabyrn333's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    I really like the Ideal of playing all 3 together, Murray, Dunleavy, Granger, Williams, Murphy

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I'm glad to see that Shawne is apparently out of the doghouse and making the best of it. Y'all know how high I am on him.
    My fear is that this is a showcasing effort, where everyone but TPTB will see just how talented he is.


    Quote Originally Posted by esabyrn333 View Post
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    I really like the Ideal of playing all 3 together, Murray, Dunleavy, Granger, Williams, Murphy
    Dear opponent, here is your free 125 points.
    But that group can score A LOT of points, hopefully more than 125.

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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Fixed. In your face Flanders.

    How many playoff teams has Dun been on? For how many coaches?
    X-Files or is there something to it?
    Well, he was on the Duke team that was in the tourney...and lost to IU.

    Seth, I still feel that Dun can be a crucial piece to a good team with the right defensive talent around him. Right now, we just don't have nearly good enough team defense to hide any of his weaknesses on that end.

    With that said, Danny, Dun, and Shawne...something's got to give, or we have to be content with starting a pseudo-SG, because that's a lot of talent at the SF position.

    Oh, and this is another reason we could afford to bring EJ along slowly if we drafted him.

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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Nap,

    Mike is paid exactly what he's worth.

    He has played for exactly one team before us. And it was a revolving ****show for him. I'm not saying his own attitude and/or shortcomings didn't have something to do with it, but to say that he should have led them to the playoffs as a 25-year-old is absurd.

    GS is in the past.

    And if you think the Dun we saw last year under Rick even counts then you're nuts. Coming onto that team at that time was obviously not going to work. That team was ****ed. Injuries, chemistry, too many changes too quick, etc. Like Peja's three-month stint in Indy, that wasn't an adequate representation of Jr's ability, and you know it.

    And I have little fear about him being only a system player. JO'B's offense does of course open the floor for him, but more so, I think he just finally hit that Luke Walton-esque epiphany where he felt fully comfortable in this league and in his situation and started playing to his ability rather than being hindered by his psychology. I see a 0% chance he ever reverts back to 2005 form. He might not score at a 19 ppg clip with better personnel around him, no, but he certainly has a new confidence and knowledge that he is a capable facilitator, scorer and shooter in this league. That's not gonna just disappear if a new coach shows up.

    And one other thing that nobody seems to mention is that there's a pretty good chance Danny is gone in two years, IMO. Maybe he signs an extension this summer, maybe he doesn't. But if you were rapidly improving and as widely coveted around the league as he currently is, would you sign one? I'd be out that door ASAP. If we lose both Mike and Dun and gain only cap room and/or draft picks we may as well be the Hawks. I'm cool with not being a legit team for 2-3 more years, but the "Just wait til 2015" mentality is not gonna work.

    And let's be honest, Dunleavy isn't gonna fetch a lot more on the open market than cap space and/or mediocre draft picks. Why give away talent just for the hope of getting some possibly cheaper, but not-guaranteed talent back?
    Last edited by JayRedd; 03-23-2008 at 03:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    My fear is that this is a showcasing effort, where everyone but TPTB will see just how talented he is.



    Dear opponent, here is your free 125 points.
    But that group can score A LOT of points, hopefully more than 125.

    If JO is truly healthy and gets into shape then step in at the 5 That would give us Murray, Dunleavy, Granger, Williams, JO. Granted I would love to get a point guard, and as impressed I was with Williams and Harrison for that matter, Denier was not impressive at all to me he looked like a little boy out there with a bunch of men. He runs the O fine I guess but god he is just to small to play D, Murray ain't much to speak of to me either. But what do you do.

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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Seth, I still feel that Dun can be a crucial piece to a good team with the right defensive talent around him.

    I think this is the only situation that would make sense for us, if we're serious about competing for a championship. I LOVE Dunleavy, but we'll never get anywhere with him unless he's the only weak defender on the floor. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening, and as a business person, I think you trade him (and Murphy) while their value is as high as it will get.



    For Shawne, I agree about the nurturing. He needs some stability, way more than any other player on the team. Do anything you can to help him mature, because when (IF) he does, the sky's the limit. I don't see a single flaw in his talent and only the defensive awareness is hurting his game. Otherwise, there isn't a single thing that he doesn't do well. I think he has the potential to be the best Pacer of all time (key word is potential).

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    I actually agree with that "could be the best". Naturally that's a perfect storm of things coming together, we all know that (those of us sane and reasonable), but you see aspects to his game that guys like Reggie, Chuck, even Big Mac didn't have.

    If he only made good on 40% of that you'd have a damn fine starter.


    Jay - Dun is going to keep getting that raise. Is a one way player really worth $10.5m? Hinrich is getting Dun money for example. Jason Terry gets LESS. John Howard is in that park.

    Prince, Rip, Billups get similar. Battier is a 6.5m guy roughly.

    As for not counting his numbers last year, bulls***. They were dead on with the prior 2 seasons. If they were GOOD numbers you'd be running them out there as "consistancy" and proof of how good he is.

    Maybe he had an epiphany, or maybe he's got low tolerance for pressure and 7K disinterested fans make him comfortable.

    I still cite the system because he's doing 2 explicit things well - driving for his own bucket, making the 3. His assists, for all the freaking love-fest hype I have to hear, are BELOW STEPHEN SELFISH JACKSON'S...still, this year, not last year.

    He touches the ball ALL THE TIME. He's the "best passer" on the team. He's got Danny, Rush and Troy dropping the 3 at a 40+ rate. Options are there for him. And he's 3.5 APG compared to Jackson's 3.9 post AS, or 3.4 vs 4.2 on the full season.

    If Matt Carroll wasn't driving right past him then I might be more open to the debate. But I just had to watch that happen and it's too much to be ignored.

    Oh by the way, is there a Pacer besides Harrison that complains more to the refs right now than Dun? Still waiting on the "we don't appreciate that behavior" crowd to speak up on that one.


    And one other thing that nobody seems to mention is that there's a pretty good chance Danny is gone in two years,
    Because the Dun/Troy $21m will have the team handcuffed more than the $17.5m they were handing to Al/Jack...not to mention the additional $22m that has to go out the door the year after when Jack/Al's deals are over with.

    All the more reason to trade Dun's $10m now for a 6-4 pair with at least the 4 coming off the books before you resign Danny.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    shawne has 2 strikes and its only a matter of time before he does something stupid again and then he's out of here.

    pacers also have to make a decision on granger/dunleavy. trade one for a real SG or any good defender

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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    If this team trades Shawne I honestly won't have a reason to watch them anymore.

    Not that anyone cares...
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertmto View Post
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    If this team trades Shawne I honestly won't have a reason to watch them anymore.

    Not that anyone cares...
    DJ White?

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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    DJ White?
    = half season ticket holder!
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    I kinda like the idea of granger, dun, williams being the 2-3-4 combo on the team, given the sort of offense we are trying to build. add a true shot-blocking center in the middle (thabeet?) to gaurd the rim and a point gaurd who can defend and dunleavy's defense wont be such a liability. I have not watched flip enough to judge his D, but assuming his Defense is adaquete, the fact that he is not a "True" point can be overcome I think, especially with a guy like dunleavy on the floor who can initiate offense. His ability to break down players one-on-one has been crucial to the team's success of late, he seems to have improved in setting up his teammates as well.

    Is there any reason to think Danny won't be able to gaurd other team's 2's? Does shawne have the size to gaurd 4's? He could probably stand to put on some more pounds, but his length seems adequete. I just think that group more than anything would need a 7+ footer who concenterates soley on defense, shot-blocking, and rebounding to make it all work.

    as far as the angry mob is concerned, let their bloodlust be satisfied with tinsley, daniels, and harrison. We get rid of shawne over this crap and I garentee you this franschise will regret it for years to come. I put my money down he goes on the become a possible all star to qaulity starter somewhere and probably never gets in trouble again. mark my words... if we trade him it better be a damn good deal.
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    Get well PG! QuickRelease's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Keep him (Dun) if you want since he does make the offense go, but also understand that he's not ultimately going to be the top 2 guy of an elite team.
    I've never understood this statement. Mike is just flat out a basketball player. He has such a well-rounded game. I wouldn't say he's a franchise player, but you need that type of player to win.

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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    In what way is he well rounded?

    There are 2 aspects to basketball, when you boil it down.

    He either CAN NOT or DOES NOT (I believe the former) play defense at a respectable NBA level.

    To say he is well rounded does not compute. He doesn't perform in fully 50% of the game.

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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Jay - Dun is going to keep getting that raise. Is a one way player really worth $10.5m? Hinrich is getting Dun money for example. Jason Terry gets LESS. John Howard is in that park.

    Prince, Rip, Billups get similar. Battier is a 6.5m guy roughly.
    Mike makes $8.2 million right now. Yes, of course, he will continue to get raises. Every player in the League (minus a few) get raises every year. The salary cap goes up every year, too, so in terms of NBA inflation, he won't be taking up a significantly larger % of our cap room. Also, Mike won't be getting the $10.5 million you're talking about until 2010. Over the next two years, he will make $9 million and $9.8 million, That may $1 million above market value, but that's not a reason to trade someone. His contract is not a big deal.

    And if you're gonna bring up other guys, get the numbers right. Chauncey makes $2 million more and will be a 35-year-old making $13.2 million in 2010. The other two Pistons guys and Josh Howard are both on great contracts. That happens when you have a good GM and the guys want to stay on their team. Again, this is something we have to pray Danny wants to do this summer. If he hits the open market, we might be looking at 5 years 50+ million for him.

    As for Jason Terry, his contract is worse than MDJ's, IMO. He's OLD. And WORSE AT BASKETBALL. And his deal DOESN'T EXPIRE UNTIL HE'S 35.

    Neither he nor Rip are "two-way" players either.

    And Battier might have the best contract in the league. Not much to say about that.

    If you seriously look at the average $8 million contract around the League and don't just cherry pick like the best six you can find, Mike is pretty damn close to being a good value.

    As for not counting his numbers last year, bulls***. They were dead on with the prior 2 seasons. If they were GOOD numbers you'd be running them out there as "consistancy" and proof of how good he is.
    Not really. I honestly don't think he's all that great and I don't think I'm missing any of his several flaws. I just believe he has been our best player all season long. Is that sad? Yes. But it's true.

    Maybe he had an epiphany, or maybe he's got low tolerance for pressure and 7K disinterested fans make him comfortable.

    I still cite the system because he's doing 2 explicit things well - driving for his own bucket, making the 3. His assists, for all the freaking love-fest hype I have to hear, are BELOW STEPHEN SELFISH JACKSON'S...still, this year, not last year.

    He touches the ball ALL THE TIME. He's the "best passer" on the team. He's got Danny, Rush and Troy dropping the 3 at a 40+ rate. Options are there for him. And he's 3.5 APG compared to Jackson's 3.9 post AS, or 3.4 vs 4.2 on the full season.
    I think he turned a corner as a pro. It happens to a lot of guys around his age. That's why 28-32 is considered a player's "prime."

    You don't think he's turned anything. Cool. Agree to disagree.

    And the assist numbers don't bother me. I have eyes. Good things happen when he has the ball. He's the only guy on our team I can say that about. Danny, to me, is still little more than a finisher -- whether it's hitting a three or a traditional finish. He still rarely creates anything for himself or others.

    Because the Dun/Troy $21m will have the team handcuffed more than the $17.5m they were handing to Al/Jack...not to mention the additional $22m that has to go out the door the year after when Jack/Al's deals are over with.
    I know your favorite national pastime is to bring up the past and pretend it still matters, but Al and Jack's salaries have nothing to do with how MDJ's career will play out over the next three years. Murph's unfortunately is interconnected given the cap, but you don't trade Dun just because we ****ed up and are overpaying our should-be 7th man (which, as you and others have noted of late isn't such a bad salary given his post-New Year's production).

    All the more reason to trade Dun's $10m now for a 6-4 pair with at least the 4 coming off the books before you resign Danny.
    Hope to resign Danny, you mean. And again you over-quote Mike's salary by $2 million.

    So let me get this right? You want to give away the guy who has been unquestionably at least our 2nd best player this season, just for a lower cap number that we can't use for 2-3 seasons and a lesser player? Who is Mr. $6 million some team is going to be dying to give away along with an asset like a $4 million expiring? Like I said above, MDJ is pretty good value for an $8 million guy. Compared to the $6 million crop that GMs would want to move? He's a damn Hall of Famer.

    Who you want for $6 million? Vlad Rad? Bobby Jackson? Mike James? Mo Pete? Marko Jaric? Tim Thomas? Abdur Raheem? Mark Blount? You might think these names are too low-quality to get for MDJ, but most $6 million players in this League are either really good values that teams are never gonna move unless they're getting something good back (Battier, Barbosa), bad deals like those above or complete and total "mehs" like Luke Ridnour, Antonio Daniels and Darko.

    Look, I'm well aware of how royally ****ed our cap is. It's horrible. But Mike is not the problem. We need to get rid of any and all of JO, Jamaal, Murphy and Marquis before MDJ's name should even come up in a meeting. I mean, maybe we have to make Mike the sacrificial lamb and package him to get rid of Jamaal. If that's the case, so be it. Buy aside from Jeff and the rookies, MDJ is actually the only good contract we have, IMO.

    IMO, trading away one of the only decent contracts on your team while simultaneously trading away one of the two legitimate NBA talents you have on your team (presuming JO is never getting back to worth even 2/3 of his salary) is just fricking stupid. I don't care if he plays the same position as the only other one. That scenario is of course unfortunate, but it's not nearly as unfortunate as all the other problems on this roster/cap.

    I mean, we have people starting threads about Flip Murray being our savior. We have two GMs tainting things up in the front office. We have owners calling out the entire franchise in the paper after never getting involved in 20+ years (and btw, I don't think the title of this thread is gonna be coming up much in their meetings).

    C'mon, Mike Dunleavy, Jr is about number #25 on the list of problems. Let's focus on something else.

    And sorry to turn this into an MDJ thread. Much like having to go to the woodshed about JO being hurt earlier this year, this also feels weird since I don't even like MDJ that much.

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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Watching the Wizards/Pistons game, let me tell you about guys who can flatout play well rounded games, the kind you need to win, and who I'd trade Dun for in a heartbeat:

    Prince, Rip, Sheed, Chauncey, Caron, Jamison, I'd probably even take Deshawn Stevenson. ALL of these guys play vastly superior defense to Dun, and except for Deshawn they all play at least equal, if not better offense.

    Dun couldn't crack the Pistons starting lineup. He can not be the key feature of a good team. I know he's about all we have, and we want to see sunshine in him, but honestly, keep some perspective please.

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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Fixed. In your face Flanders.

    How many playoff teams has Dun been on? For how many coaches?
    X-Files or is there something to it?

    Like what Troy is doing too, but the fact is that the Pacers need to turn the JO/Troy/Dun money into something A LOT more productive than what they can get from Dun/Shawne/Foster.

    And I did say I can see the point to keeping him, he does make the JIM O'BRIEN offense run. Of course if you ultimately find fault with his coaching and swap him out, then maybe you get the Montgomery, Nellie, Rick Dun instead.

    I also hate that he makes it 5 on 4 at the other end.

    Making playoffs now, you need Mike. Making the ECF 4 years from now when the prospects are coming into their own, you don't have Mike as part of that.

    If Detlef was tradeable for defensive reasons, WTF does that make Dunleavy. Because Dun ain't no Det.
    Is Dunleavy's defense really that bad compared to anyone else on the team?

    I don't get the sense that his defensive liabilities are so bad that we are going 5 on 4 all the time.

    I am all for trading Dunleavy as long as we get back something of decent value that doesn't kill our salarycap. I just don't see any type of trade that we can make that involves either Murphy or Dunleavy that would improve this team. This doesn't mean that I don't agree with their impact on the Salarycap and that we would greatly benefit from eliminating them from our Financial situation.....I just don't see any trade that will get us somewhat "equal talent" in return while improving our financial situation. It would IMHO be the reverse of the Murphleavy trade that netted us ( arguably ) less talented players that killed whatever salarycap flexibility that we had.

    I can only see a trade that can do one or the other....not both.
    Last edited by CableKC; 03-23-2008 at 09:49 PM.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  23. #23
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Is Dunleavy's defense really that bad compared to anyone else on the team?
    A great couple of quotes from the Bulls game. At one point Quinn talked about how Dunleavy really was having a hard time guarding Gordon, and that he sometimes got beat on the dribble by quick 2's. At another point in the game, Dun got matched up with somebody (Deng?) who just outmuscled him, and Quinn talked about how Danny tended to get overpowered by 3's.

    I sat in my chair and wondered "Then who is he supposed to guard?"
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  24. #24
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    I've really changed my opinion on Dun. I hated the trade that brought him here (although I really didn't mind losing Harrington, Jack, or Sarunas), and I hated the thought of going into the season with him as our shooting guard. I hated his timidity and his streakiness.

    But he's really hit a whole different level. I still don't think he'll ever be a big crunch-time performer, and I really don't want the ball in his hands when the game is on the line, but the dude clearly has skills. Some of his recent offensive outings have been just beautiful.

    But I still don't see where he fits, long-term. I don't see Dun-Granger-Shawne as a legit starting NBA 2-3-4, and I think both Shawne and Danny have a higher ceiling than Dunleavy. In theory, it makes the most sense to move Granger, but he's my favorite Pacer and it would kill what little fanbase they have left. So ultimately I really don't know how TPTB (whoever they end up being) will resolve the issue. But I know pretty much nobody will like it.
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  25. #25
    Member Mr. Sobchak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keep Shawne Williams!

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    I kinda like the idea of granger, dun, williams being the 2-3-4 combo on the team, given the sort of offense we are trying to build. add a true shot-blocking center in the middle (thabeet?) to gaurd the rim and a point gaurd who can defend and dunleavy's defense wont be such a liability. I have not watched flip enough to judge his D, but assuming his Defense is adaquete, the fact that he is not a "True" point can be overcome I think, especially with a guy like dunleavy on the floor who can initiate offense. His ability to break down players one-on-one has been crucial to the team's success of late, he seems to have improved in setting up his teammates as well.

    Is there any reason to think Danny won't be able to gaurd other team's 2's? Does shawne have the size to gaurd 4's? He could probably stand to put on some more pounds, but his length seems adequete. I just think that group more than anything would need a 7+ footer who concenterates soley on defense, shot-blocking, and rebounding to make it all work.

    as far as the angry mob is concerned, let their bloodlust be satisfied with tinsley, daniels, and harrison. We get rid of shawne over this crap and I garentee you this franschise will regret it for years to come. I put my money down he goes on the become a possible all star to qaulity starter somewhere and probably never gets in trouble again. mark my words... if we trade him it better be a damn good deal.

    I don't think this is a good idea because Dun, Shawne, and Danny's skill sets are synonymous with eachother. They are redundant on this roster. Each shoots realitively well from 3pt range and all three are average defenders at best. We need to pair one of them with an elite wing defender with slashing capabilities and trade the others for players at different positions. Look at the Bobcats- their wings work so well together because Gerald Wallace is an elite slasher and JRich is an above average shooter.

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