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Thread: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

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    Resident Cyclist TripleThreat's Avatar
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    Default usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    I was traveling this past week, and reading USA Today. They are taking votes for the all time top 5 players for each NBA team.

    Cast your votes for the greatest players in the history of the Indiana franchise, including the ABA era, at http://highfives.usatoday.com. Pick up next Thursday's edition for the results.


    The list of players has some head scratchers, both on the included and snubbed list.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    I saw that last night and voted twice. It should generate sme debate anyway.

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    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    Right now this is the top 5 based on vote totals:

    1. Reggie Miller
    2. George McGinnis
    3. Jermaine O'Neal
    4. Mel Daniels
    5. Detlef Schrempf

    The rest:

    6. Mark Jackson
    7(tie). Chuck Person and Roger Brown
    8. Billy Knight
    9. Ron Artest

    Big Omits:

    Rik Smits
    Dale Davis
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    I voted for:

    Reggie, Mel, George, Roger, and JO.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    This isn't intended to be a knock on JO and I do think he's a great player. In the whole scheme of things, I think history will show he really only had a few good seasons for the Pacers. His second, third & fourth years as a Pacer were standout seasons. I mean the Pacers (as of today)are 339-303 and hovering just above .500 ball for his tenure. After this season, JO led Pacer teams will have 4 1st round exits and two (likely) missed playoffs in eight seasons. I don't view him as an all-time great. Injuries are injuries. Nobody is clamoring for Kellogg to be on this list, are they?

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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    The USA poll is old news as far as who the fans voted as the top five "Best Ever" Pacers in franchise history (or however one would like to label them).

    JO was voted as the #3 best followed only by Reggie Miller and Mel Daniels. Ranked as #4 and #5 were Rik Smits and George McGinnis, respectively. You can view the list of the top 12 greatest Pacers here in the article, "Pacers 40th Anniversary Team".

    I'd be interested, however, to see where JO stacks up now considering his recent injury and the length of time he's been off the court this season. Does he still rank within the top five as is the case with NaptownMenace or would he now be viewed as "over-rated" as the good Dr. now labels him?

    Hmmmm....
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 03-21-2008 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Added additional commentary

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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    When Daniels and McGinnis were going well for the Pacers, in a last second game they ran "give the ball to Roger so he can win the game and we can have a beer"...and he's not currently in the top 5....sad

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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    I'd be interested, however, to see where JO stacks up now considering his recent injury and the length of time he's been off the court this season. Does he still rank within the top five as is the case with NaptownMenace or would he now be viewed as "over-rated" as the good Dr. now labels him?

    Hmmmm....

    JO still makes the my top 5.

    I think when he's been healthy, he's been a great player and even with the injuries he's on pace to break several franchise records. If he comes back to play and stays with the Pacers through the end of his contract, he could end up as 2nd all-time in points and rebounds. He's already number 1 in blocked shots. He's been to 6 All-Star games (tied for franchise record with George McGinnis), led the league in blocks in 2001, won the MIP award in 2002, and led the team to the 2003 ECF.

    His overall average in 8 seasons with the Pacers is 19.1 ppg, 9.9 rebs, and 2.4 blks.

    Holds Indiana Pacers franchise records for:[4]
    Most blocks, game: 10 (January 22, 2003 vs. the Toronto Raptors)
    Most blocks, season: 228 (2000-01)
    Most rebounds, game, playoffs: 22 (Game 5, 2003 Eastern Conference First Round)
    Highest rebounding average, playoff series: 17.5 (2003 Eastern Conference First Round)
    Most free throws attempted, game: 25 (January 4, 2005 vs. the Milwaukee Bucks)


    Good numbers overall and better than Smits, Chuck, Scrempf, or Billy Knight. I'd be interested in hearing who people think should make the top 5 instead of JO.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    I voted for:

    Reggie, Mel, George, Roger, and JO.
    That's my Top 5 as well.
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyMac View Post
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    When Daniels and McGinnis were going well for the Pacers, in a last second game they ran "give the ball to Roger so he can win the game and we can have a beer"...and he's not currently in the top 5....sad
    Isn't it though
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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    I voted for:

    Reggie, Mel, George, Roger, and JO.
    I chose the same 5. I can't believe that Detlef is getting more love than Roger. I guess that proves a lot of Pacers fans don't know squat about the history of the franchise.
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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    I would say the JO debate centers around whether you're trying to select "The Five Greatest Pacers" or "The Five Best Basketball Players to Play for the Pacers." To me, JO is unquestionably on the second list. The first is up for debate (though I also say yes to that).

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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    I voted for:

    Reggie, Mel, George, Roger, and JO.
    Same here
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
    Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    Reggie, Mel, George, Roger, and M. Jackson

    JO has a little more to prove. I just think Jackson had a bigger impact when he was here than JO has. Much love for JO though, as he is actually my favorite, current Pacer, believe it or not. A case could be made that Jackson didn't play enough seasons here, but whatever.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    This isn't intended to be a knock on JO and I do think he's a great player. In the whole scheme of things, I think history will show he really only had a few good seasons for the Pacers. His second, third & fourth years as a Pacer were standout seasons. I mean the Pacers (as of today)are 339-303 and hovering just above .500 ball for his tenure. After this season, JO led Pacer teams will have 4 1st round exits and two (likely) missed playoffs in eight seasons. I don't view him as an all-time great. Injuries are injuries. Nobody is clamoring for Kellogg to be on this list, are they?
    I agree with this somewhat, but at the same time you just don't fall *** backward into 19-10. If we are going to knock him for his FG% stat (for good reason), we have to also give credit for his points, rebounds and blocks. He's WAY up the list in all those categories, as well as being the all time leader in NBA all-star appearances.

    I can see how some people now reflect on his career and find it to be meh, but the fact is that it hasn't been. You swap JO for Dale in 1993 and he puts up the numbers he has but with that roster around him, he's suddenly part of all-time teams with ECF and even Finals runs in his career. Rik struggled with his own foot injuries for years, but here he is with people wondering why he wasn't listed and with the occasional "retire his number" rumblings. I assure you that back in the day when he was gimping around a lot of fans were fed up with him and ready to see him moved.


    I also think Detlef gets overlooked by the late-to-the-game crowd, the fans that weren't old enough or just didn't care enough to pay attention prior to the ECF runs. McKey eased up the scoring jam I'll agree, but I think even with Detlef and his lesser defense the Pacers could have made the same ECF runs once Brown came on board. He certainly did well enough for Karl and the Sonics who had a few serious defenders around him at the time (meaning they cared about D).

    I know he is 5th here, but in day to day discussion he gets overlooked. Back to back 6th Man WINS, and an All-Star appearance back when it was rare (Reggie only had 1 or 2 by that point). But because all the Reggie highlights came after the trade for McKey he often gets forgotten. At the time of the trade I'd suggest that Detlef was the bigger Pacer star (again, no Reggie miracles yet). Certainly he was much more of a triple double type of threat.

    Rik is a classic, but it's only the fact that he was here longer that makes him in any way a better Pacer than Det.


    Having said all that for JO, I didn't put him on my list. Reg, Mel, Mac, Rajah, Detlef


    BTW, how disgusting is it that they left Ferrell off this list, not to mention no Sanders.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-21-2008 at 11:52 PM.

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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    I was hoping the list would have included at least Buse.

    I know there wasn't room for some of old guys like Neto. Lewis or Keller, but the were fan favs.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: usatoday.com - high fives - Pacers up next week

    I agree Jose. Of course some idiot on the blog that goes with it posted "NBA stats are worth double ABA stats". F'ing clueless. So maybe the average reader wasn't a good target for a long list of ABA players.

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