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Thread: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

  1. #26
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Flip might be worth a couple more wins the rest of the season and we may move down a spot. 4 out of 5 of our last losses have been by double digits. I seriously doubt he changes any of them. Maybe he changes the outcome in a quarter of all close games. That would probably be a couple more wins this season at most. The difference between a #9 and #10 pick is not usually going to be that important...

  2. #27

    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    vs. Wisconsin (game 2): 23 points on 41.2% shooting
    vs. Michigan State (game 1): 28 points on 60% shooting
    vs. Michigan State (game 2): 22 points on 50% shooting

    He's also had bad games against bad teams:

    vs. Coppin State: 15 points on 15.4% shooting
    vs. Chicago State: 22 points on 25% shooting
    vs. Illinois (game 2): 19 points on 23.1% shooting
    Please. You can cite all the exceptions you want. I'm talking about what he has averaged vs. good teams vs. what he has averaged vs. bad teams.

    Selectively picking a handful of games is kind of like the guy who comes back from Vegas saying he won a grand. Sure, he won a grand on one hand. But he lost 3 grand on the rest.

  3. #28
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    I think Gordon will be a good pro, just not a savior. I think Ben Gordon is a good pro.

    I think Eric Gordon has struggled, but I also think there are mitigating factors. I think the Sampson debacle created some issues. However, I think the bigger problem has been that the IU offensive scheme has been a complete trainwreck all year long, and that would impair anybody's results against the top teams. The less efficient the offense is, the more freelancing, the easier it is for good teams to shut players down.

    Mayo, on the other hand, I have no faith in, hence the comparison to noted chucker Jamal Crawford.

  4. #29

    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    I am sick of the Gordon apologists. I've already shown it: againt teams that would be considered NCAA-bound without the lesser conferences getting tourney bids, Gordon has not been good. <30% from 3 pt range and around 40% overall. You can cite a game here or there, but look at average production. I don't even care if you exclude the Dakich games. It still doesn't look good. no matter the system or how dysfunctional it is, a 20ppg scorer shouldn't be chucking up those kind of percentages.

    About 6 weeks ago, I compared the guy to Ricky Pierce, because I think Gordon can be an offensively skilled, but a defensive and pass-limited player (w/ some work). People were complaining and calling him the second coming of Wade and Jesus Christ rolled into one. What do you see in the last 6 weeks to prove any of my assertions wrong?

    -limited height
    -defensively weak
    -limited rebounding
    -limited assists
    -when covered/targeted, can't extend over longer defensive players to keep his 3FG% up (Note: current % when guys have keyed on him).
    -no mid range game to keep defenders honest
    -decent, but not great, game at the rim.

    no matter the system, he should be able to accumulate stats in all of these areas playing against school boys if he was that athletically talented and skillful. Hughes did it. Hamilton did it. Allen did it. Arenas even did it.

    Complain about Mayo all you want, but compare Mayo's FG% against good teams to Gordon's before doing it. Compare his 3pt% to Gordon's vs. Good teams before doing it. Consider he gets more boards a game, and his Ast/TO ratio is at least 1:1. Who is the chucker?
    Last edited by ChicagoPacer; 03-17-2008 at 07:56 PM.

  5. #30
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Murray's actually better than I expected. He had some nice passes today, and outplayed Diener by a pretty large margin.
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  6. #31
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoPacer View Post
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    Please. You can cite all the exceptions you want. I'm talking about what he has averaged vs. good teams vs. what he has averaged vs. bad teams.

    Selectively picking a handful of games is kind of like the guy who comes back from Vegas saying he won a grand. Sure, he won a grand on one hand. But he lost 3 grand on the rest.
    It's just as accurate as an individual's interpretation of what makes a team "good" or "bad," and ignoring to what degree each team is either "good" or "bad" and lumping them all in together.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Mayo is now shooting a higher FG% (.444 vs .441) and a much higher 3% (.408 vs .347) than Gordon.

    Gordon gets to the line like a mad-man, so I'd still concede that he's the overall better scorer, but it's close. Mayo is also a more well-rounded player, which is why he'll end up being drafted ahead of Gordon.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    I am most likely the only one here who thinks this, but Gordon should stay in college for at least 1 more year. He has the skills, but needs to learn how to use them. And it is hard to learn glued to the end of the bench.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I wish people would stop saying this, because it's simply not true.
    Take a look at his box scores, you'll see it.

    He did pretty well when IU was playing a collection of Barber Colleges and Beauty Schools prior to the Big Ten season. But for the most part, the thing he has done best in the last couple of months is get to the free throw line.

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    So let me get this straight. You just bashed Gordon because he's not like Michael Jordon? Really.
    Well, heck yes!

    Gordon is just lucky he hasn't had Dakich guarding him.


  11. #36
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Murray's actually better than I expected. He had some nice passes today, and outplayed Diener by a pretty large margin.
    Quote Originally Posted by me
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    The Pacers are so bad that adding bad players is actually an improvement?

  12. #37

    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Quote Originally Posted by OTD View Post
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    I am most likely the only one here who thinks this, but Gordon should stay in college for at least 1 more year. He has the skills, but needs to learn how to use them. And it is hard to learn glued to the end of the bench.
    I'm in agreement with one caveat: it depends who coaches next year. He needs to learn a few things, so he needs a good coach who will show him those things and hold him accountable. If IU doesn't get that next year, he might as well go.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    If Gordon's play late in the season the only basis people are considering his potential then the conclusions they are coming to are valid. Gordon might play better with a structured offense (something that even Kelvin struggled at establishing). Gordon might play better with having a coach year long and having continuity. Gordon might play better with a healthy wrist (Jordan's scored 64 points in 1 game, how were the rest of the games he played with that same injury).

    There is more risk with Gordon now than at the beginning of the year. And I think that if got into a rhythm offense and not have to be the sole creator, then he would be a top 5 pick hands down. People towards the start of the season said that he might contend the top spot in the draft (ludicrous and ignorant if you ask me).

    The fact is that people dog him for his deficiencies. He is a freshman on a dissolve team with a lingering injury. He has the tools to be a lights out shooter and incredible penetrator. His defense has lacked but not to the point that he would not be an improvement 2 years from now.

    People are so easy to give Westbrook a ride because he is young (his sophomore experience to Gordon's freshman). Judge all the talent under the same criteria. Fellow IU homers quit making this kid out to be the next Jordan and haters quit making him out to be a bust.


    He is no doubt a top 8 talent. And how he plays against a great defensive high energy team like Arkansas will show us more about him in a high pressured game.

  14. #39
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Quote Originally Posted by Kofi View Post
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    Mayo is now shooting a higher FG% (.444 vs .441) and a much higher 3% (.408 vs .347) than Gordon.

    Gordon gets to the line like a mad-man, so I'd still concede that he's the overall better scorer, but it's close. Mayo is also a more well-rounded player, which is why he'll end up being drafted ahead of Gordon.
    Mayo is also potentially a head case.

    I hope OJ gets drafted ahead of EJ. Gives us a better chance of drafting Gordon.

    Whether you think EJ's overrated or not, if he drops to us, we'd be foolish not to take a hard, serious look at drafting him. The tools are there. They're just rusty right now.

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Take a look at his box scores, you'll see it.

    He did pretty well when IU was playing a collection of Barber Colleges and Beauty Schools prior to the Big Ten season. But for the most part, the thing he has done best in the last couple of months is get to the free throw line.
    I have, and I already posted evidence to the contrary.

  16. #41

    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Mayo is also potentially a head case.

    I hope OJ gets drafted ahead of EJ. Gives us a better chance of drafting Gordon.

    Whether you think EJ's overrated or not, if he drops to us, we'd be foolish not to take a hard, serious look at drafting him. The tools are there. They're just rusty right now.
    what has mayo done at usc to lead anybody to believe he's a "headcase"...by all accounts mayo is the most vocal and active leader on a higher ranked team many are predicting to be a sleeper who could reach the final four...mayo is a much better all around player than ej and actually does this crazy thing called move without the basketball...

  17. #42
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    what has mayo done at usc to lead anybody to believe he's a "headcase"...by all accounts mayo is the most vocal and active leader on a higher ranked team many are predicting to be a sleeper who could reach the final four...mayo is a much better all around player than ej and actually does this crazy thing called move without the basketball...
    Gordon moves without the basketball several times per game... Typically when he's just dribbled it off his ankle or spun and lost the basketball...

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  18. #43

    Default Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Well, another meaningless victory against a miserable team (Charlotte)...and barely won at that. With Murray scoring 22 last night and I think 20 the previous win, this again proves my point...our brilliant GM will have just lost us a top ten pick by bringing in Murray.

    What will be the ultimate crowning Larry Bird touch is when Murray bolts to another team at the end of the year.

    No top ten pick AND no Murray...what is LB thinking?

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