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Thread: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    I have been thinking about this a lot recently. My question isn't can this current team be a good defensive team - the question is a lot broader than that. Can a running team that pushes the ball everytime, that plays a fast tempo offensively, can they then go to the other end of the floor and get down and dirty as you must do to be a good defensive team.

    I think it is nearly impossible - I can't think of any really good defensive teams that ran. Lakers of the 80's is the only team that maybe did. But the Lakers also if they didn't have a fastbreak played a very patterned and patient offense. The Bulls in the 90's actually ran very little.

    It is difficult for players to play at 90 MPH on offense, take quick shots, run around, pass the ball - call it whatever you want. But then to ask those same 5 guys to run back to the other end and dig in, be patient, play together, be patient, play as one, follow the gameplan. it is impossible. So I think the way you play at one end impact the other end - if you play a helter - skelter style offensively - then that is how you are going to play defensively. That is why the really good defensive teams are not fastbreak teams - you are asking too much of NBA players in a season that is 82 games long.

    So if O'Brien who I still like a lot - if he doesn't change the offense, if he doesn't bring some discipline, some calmness, some normalcy to the offensive end the defensive end won't ever improve. yes we have some glaring defensive weaknesses - but I am 100% convinced that if we ran a more patient offense, our defense would be much better - even with the same exact players and even with the same exact defensive system. This is the same exact defensive system OB ran in Boston and Philly, what has changed is the offensive system - that is the problem right now.

    Edit: I hate to bring football into this discussion, but compare offensive football players to defensive players. The mentality is completely different, the approach is completely different. But in football you have two sets of different players, in the NBA you have the same players trying to play both sides at the same time - it is a difficult transition that is made much more difficult when the offense is so helter - skelter
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-13-2008 at 09:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    I don't think you can. I'm not as convinced regarding your theory about structure, but I think if we set up our offense slowly instead of trying to get the ball across half court in 3 seconds or less, we might save some energy for the other end.

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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    The Lakers-of-old and Bulls-of-yore were faster paced and great defensive teams.

    I guess I don't understand what you mean by "patient offense." If you mean wait until the opponents are set before you "initiate" like Rick always did, frankly I'd rather lose. I think we've suffered enough of that.

    If you mean understanding the shot percentages and passing up the first available shot opportunity to take advantage of a higher percentage opportunity, well that's just good basketball.

    I believe that the only chance we have against many opponents is to try and run past them and take advantage of coverage mistakes before they are corrected. One-on-one, none of our guys hold up. But getting there fast and swinging the ball around fast before a rookie defender can adjust is about all we've got. Slowing that down doesn't make sense to me.

    At the beginning of the season, we heard about the players needing to get into "Jim Obrien Shape." At that time, I was given the impression that the team was expected to run both directions.
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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    I remember Bird and O'Brien both saying earlier in the season that this team is going to be uptempo, but it's also built so that we can play with any style. Obviously with Jermaine out, we're pretty much just an uptempo team. Because of that, when we don't have any quick options we're forced into a lot of jump shots, bad shots, and throwing passes that lead to turnovers. We all know we need that true big time go to guy [in the future], but [for THIS team] I think with the threat of Jermaine and the ability of Jamaal to get to the basket any time he wants (both when healthy of course), we could be .500 to at least 5 games over that. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that we could actually play a little defense by being a little more patient on offense -- taking up time and thus cutting down on opportunities for the other team to score. Jermaine's defensive presence is much needed as well.
    Last edited by Evan_The_Dude; 03-13-2008 at 09:55 AM.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    No... The Pacers shouldn't even be a running team because our personnel is not even close to being able to play at this pace AND defend.

    Is it possible... yes... with the right personnel and a very smart team who are also athletically gifted all the way around AND off the bench. That is not this Pacers team.

    The problem I had with Rick Carlisle is that he focused too much on a player that didn't deliver, made the team easy to defend, and ended up wasting too many possessions anyway.

    I have NO problem with pushing the ball up the court and trying to catch the defense napping. BUT not at the expense of wasting the trip... you have to be able to pull the ball back out and be patient and break the defense down. Make the opposition work!

    We cannot compensate for bad offense on the defensive side of the ball. And DEFENSE is what wins championships... it's also what wins games consistently. You're not always going to score at a 50% clip. Not from game to game... not even from quarter to quarter. That's true of the 2008 Pacers or 1980's Lakers. ...So you better have defense to fall back on. Making the other team work on offense... or just work to keep you off the offensive glass to begin with... is going to make a team harder to beat.

    Right now, the Pacers are an easy team to beat. Some of that is talent... more of it's coaching (and not using the personnel properly and maximizing what we do have).

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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    We can't ignore that there are few good defenders on this team. As much as I like Dunleavy, he's only average at best defensively. Other than Danny and JO, this team is not very good defensively.

    Even Foster, IMO, is limited defensively. He's a hustler and and a good on the ball defender but he's below average at rotating defensively. This team is really exposed defensively without JO cleaning up the breakdowns of the perimeter defenders.

    Their defense wasn't quite as bad when JO was playing because of all the charges and blocks he got. Still they could really use another good low shot-blocking post defender. So I guess my answer to the question is no, this running team can't be a great defensive team. The Warriors are a better defensive team though and they run more than the Pacers do. They still aren't a "great defensive team".
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    We can't ignore that there are few good defenders on this team. As much as I like Dunleavy, he's only average at best defensively. Other than Danny and JO, this team is not very good defensively.

    Even Foster, IMO, is limited defensively. He's a hustler and and a good on the ball defender but he's below average at rotating defensively. This team is really exposed defensively without JO cleaning up the breakdowns of the perimeter defenders.

    Their defense wasn't quite as bad when JO was playing because of all the charges and blocks he got. Still they could really use another good low shot-blocking post defender. So I guess my answer to the question is no, this running team can't be a great defensive team. The Warriors are a better defensive team though and they run more than the Pacers do. They still aren't a "great defensive team".
    OK, but my question is - isn't it harder for the Warriors to be agood defensive team because of their offensive style than it is for the Cavs to be a good defensive team because of their offensive style. or do you disagree with my theory and think it doesn't matter
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-13-2008 at 10:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    I think that because the Pacers are a up-tempo team, they subject themselves to allowing a lot of points. A good defense on a up-tempo team allows close to hundred points a game. However, we don't have the players to accomplish this feat.

    Although its getting redundant, we have no perimeter defense and lack of interior presence. Unless, David Harrison screws his head on straight or Jermaine actually finishes a season were stuck. We are only a few pieces away from being solid, not good. If our defense stepped it up somehow we would also score more too, around 107-110 a game.

    A up-tempo team can play good defense, just expect higher scoring. When I played in High School we played many up-tempo teams. It's just as taxing on your team to keep up, especially on offense, so yes we can do both well. Just not with Diener, Tins or Murray at the the point. I will admit that in High School we didn't play back-to-back games either. I would imagine that is hard to do, so your right Bball we need to become more patient offensively and push the ball less in unnecessary situations to conserve energy for late game scenarios. It could help defensively as well.

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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    No, they can't. But what they can do is assemble a roster that has a good mix of both high octane players and solid defensive rotation players, players who are good 1-on-1 defenders or have a good understanding of defensive schemes and are unselfish in rotating to the open man defensively. That's what most championship teams were able to do over the years. I don't see any reason to believe that trend will change.

    Take the Suns and Warriors as two leading examples of why it's fun to watch these "run-N-gun" teams, but in recent years most have hinged their bets on the "grind-it-out/half-court" teams, i.e., Pistons, Spurs. It's so very true: good offense will keep you in the game, but strong defense will win ball games every time. Our own Pacers are a prime example of why that statement is so very true...7th in the league in FG shoting avg 103 ppg, yet near the bottom of the ledger in team defense. Thus, they have lose 39 games even when they've scored 100+ pts.

    No! A running team can't be a good defensive team at least NOT using it's starting 5 and possibly not even with their 6th Man. But if you surround them with a few rotation players who are good defenders, you stand a good chance of moving up the win column and surprising a few people.

    Sidenote: NaptownMenace is correct; there are some good defensive players on this team: Owens, Ike, Harrison, Foster, Granger, Dunleavy and Murray are the players I'd label as good defenders. But here's the rub: Some of these guys aren't rotated into the ball game when you really need a defensive stop! There have been countless times prior to acquiring Murray, for example, that I've wondered why JOB wouldn't call on Owens at least for his defense. And then there's the question of not using Harrison and Ike more if there was so much concern for leaving the low-post so vunerable to dribble penetration.

    There are good rotation players on this team who I believe can get the job done defensively. Up until recently, they weren't being used. I'd keep close watch on the 3rd qrt and midway through the 4th from now on. I wouldn't be surprised to see JOB use a lineup of Murray, Granger, Quis, Foster and Harrison more often. They had pretty good success keeping the Sonics at bay the last game and a similar lineup that featured Ike was good at slowing the Cavs.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 03-13-2008 at 12:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    The Lakers and Utah are good examples of up-tempo teams that play great defenses. Those guys should be a model for us on how to be a all-around up-tempo team. Seven years ago the NBA started allowing zone defense. My point is that slashing, up-tempo offenses counter the zone effectively. Teams that play this style will start to winning more rings. Maybe LA will get it started.

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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    I hate, absolutely hate all these different defensive schemes.

    Defense should be stopping pentration with your on ball defender and having everyone else in helpside. These complicated defensive rotations just suck. In high school we played a trapping defense made popular by then Bowling Green's coach Jim Leranegra (sp?) who is now at George Mason.

    It was just a waste of time. If all five guys don't understand it, it cannot work, it's impossible. If all five guys don't move perfectly together, it cannot work. You have to be perfect time and time again, or you give up layups. Even when being perfect there's still a system to beat it.

    Every junk scheme is like that. It's okay to be used in spot situations, but to have this grand design about things is just fool's gold.

    Give space if you lack lateral quickness to stop pentration. When they shoot, put and hand in their face. If they hit it, then pat them on the butt and say good shot.

    Good offense will always beat good defense, especially the way the rules are in the NBA.

    EDIT: Good defensive teams in the NBA have the athletes to do so. They also play no nonsense man to man. Detroit doesn't do anything special but put pressure on shooters and stop pentration. Defense in basketball should be about simplifying it down to the basics IMHO.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-13-2008 at 11:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    While I might not agree from point to point, I still think that was an excellent post, 86. That's what the Pacers forum is all about IMHO.
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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    Would expanding to a 10-player rotation make a difference?

    One of the problems that I think that we encounter ( which may explain why we always seem to hit a 2nd half slump ) is because I think that we run of out of energy with all the "back and forth" running that we have to do on the offensive/defensive end. We try so much to accomplish both so early in the game that we end up wearing ourselves out by the 2nd half. By the 2nd half.....our key players are simply too tired to effectively do anyting....which ( again ) may explain the defensive lapses and our tendency to take the "easy" 3pt shot.

    If we were to have more Players play some regular/consistent minutes where JO'B actually manages the minutes, our key Starters/Finishers won't be as tired throughout the entire game. Although we would have to acquire some depth.....it may allow us to play this tempo on both ends of the floor offense/defense up for the majority of the game without wearing out our key players.

    On top of that....I think that getting some solid defensive-minded players would help out immensely. It's been mentioned by TBird that if key players like Granger and JONeal didn't have to focus so much on the defensive end ( only cuz they are the best defenders on the team ) that they can actually have a greater impact on the offensive end.

    one more thing.....if we were to at least get some decent defensive help in the offseason....would we have to necessarily stick with this "team defense" that we run? It just seems like it REQUIRES that we actually have 5 smart basketball players out that understand and grasp the concept on the court AT ALL TIMES. If we were to change the defensive scheme to either a more simplified version ( if that is even possible ) or a different defensive scheme that most players can implement....I think that it would improve our defense.
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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    OK, but my question is - isn't it harder for the Warriors to be agood defensive team because of their offensive style than it is for the Cavs to be a good defensive team because of their offensive style. or do you disagree with my theory and think it doesn't matter
    Actually I agree whole-heartedly. Mike Fratello invented the slow-down offense back in the late 90's with the Cavs and it was a bore but that team was really good on the defensive end. So yeah, it's easier for a team with a slower more half-court based offense to be a great defensive team.

    That may be dumbing it down a little but basically if you can control the tempo, your defense has a better chance at getting back and digging in defensively. It also helps to have good individual defenders too.

    Somebody mentioned the Bulls earlier but if you think about it, that team had some very good defenders on the squad. Pippen, Jordan, Armstrong, Grant/Rodman, and Ron Harper were very good individual defenders so they could up the tempo and still lock you down defensively. Still, they didn't run as much and shoot as many 3's as the Warriors, Suns, or Pacers today. They shot the ball really well and that led to a good ppg average but they did most of their damage in the half-court. They weren't an up-tempo team.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    I think it can be done.

    It depends on how you measure a good defensive team. Is it points allowed? Shots allowed? Oppenats FG%? If you are a "running team" like the Warriors or Suns you are going to allow more points right away than a slow it down type of team.

    I think that here is the problem.

    Players are all about shooting the 3 or getting a dunk. There is no mid range game now.

    Coaches who employ a fast break type of system are not about getting layups but more about getting a quick shot and shooting more shots than your oppeant.

    Play good defense, rebound, advance the ball up the court QUICKLY with a pass and not dribbling and see if you can get a layup. Otherwise move into your half court offense.

    Just like players who seem to shoot the 3 or try for the dunk most coaches seem to either play a VERY slow it down walk the ball up the court style or they play the lets just try and shoot more than the other team style of play.

    You have to be able to play in the half court on offense and defense. You also need to run and try and get some easy baskets. It's a combination.

    One more thing I think it's easier to be good defensive while speeding up the pace in high school and college as opposed to the NBA. Less minutes per game and less games played the reasons being.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    OK, but my question is - isn't it harder for the Warriors to be agood defensive team because of their offensive style than it is for the Cavs to be a good defensive team because of their offensive style. or do you disagree with my theory and think it doesn't matter
    I think my answer did cover your question but just in case I blabbered too much:

    It is harder for the Warriors to be a good defensive team because of their offense over the Cavs.

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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I hate, absolutely hate all these different defensive schemes.

    Defense should be stopping pentration with your on ball defender and having everyone else in helpside. These complicated defensive rotations just suck. In high school we played a trapping defense made popular by then Bowling Green's coach Jim Leranegra (sp?) who is now at George Mason.

    It was just a waste of time. If all five guys don't understand it, it cannot work, it's impossible. If all five guys don't move perfectly together, it cannot work. You have to be perfect time and time again, or you give up layups. Even when being perfect there's still a system to beat it.

    Every junk scheme is like that. It's okay to be used in spot situations, but to have this grand design about things is just fool's gold.

    Give space if you lack lateral quickness to stop pentration. When they shoot, put and hand in their face. If they hit it, then pat them on the butt and say good shot.

    Good offense will always beat good defense, especially the way the rules are in the NBA.

    EDIT: Good defensive teams in the NBA have the athletes to do so. They also play no nonsense man to man. Detroit doesn't do anything special but put pressure on shooters and stop pentration. Defense in basketball should be about simplifying it down to the basics IMHO.
    I agree 100% with this.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I hate, absolutely hate all these different defensive schemes.

    Defense should be stopping pentration with your on ball defender and having everyone else in helpside. These complicated defensive rotations just suck. In high school we played a trapping defense made popular by then Bowling Green's coach Jim Leranegra (sp?) who is now at George Mason.

    It was just a waste of time. If all five guys don't understand it, it cannot work, it's impossible. If all five guys don't move perfectly together, it cannot work. You have to be perfect time and time again, or you give up layups. Even when being perfect there's still a system to beat it.

    Every junk scheme is like that. It's okay to be used in spot situations, but to have this grand design about things is just fool's gold.

    Give space if you lack lateral quickness to stop penetration. When they shoot, put and hand in their face. If they hit it, then pat them on the butt and say good shot.

    Good offense will always beat good defense, especially the way the rules are in the NBA.

    EDIT: Good defensive teams in the NBA have the athletes to do so. They also play no nonsense man to man. Detroit doesn't do anything special but put pressure on shooters and stop pentration. Defense in basketball should be about simplifying it down to the basics IMHO.
    Interesting.......I don't consider the Pacers defense as a junk defense.

    Defense should be stopping penetration with your on ball defender and having everyone else in helpside - that is exactly what this Pacers defense is.

    The only part of this defense that may be considered "junk" is the pre-rotating to the strong side to stop a player from getting to the basket. - but a lot of teams in the NBA do that now. Yes even the Spurs do it from time to time - not as much as the Pacers do- but they do it. I don't think there is anything else in the Pacers schemes that I consider junk - but I would be open to discussing if you believe otherwise.

    Let me make somehting clear. The two most important things in any defense: 1) all out effort - if you don't have this - nothing else really matters. 2) playing as a team - all 5 players must work together and have complete trust in each other. - I always say that in the NBA defense takes a lot more teamwork than does offense

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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    Easily. In fact this is explictly what the Nets did to get to the Finals. They used defense to create running offense. Every TO they got was a freaking track meet, guys literally took off like a starter pistol at the first sign of a TO.

    It was when they were forced to slow down into the HC that they often struggled for points.

    They hated that, they wanted sets that started above the FT line on their end with 3-4 of your guys below the FT line or even on the baseline. When that happened you were toast.

    The Pacers have had TO issues at times that lead to breaks, but that often isn't in the running game. Other than that have they really failed to get back after running? I say not at all.

    They get beat on traps and zone overloads when a team shows patience, and they get beat on halfcourt dribble penetration. Frankly I'd almost rather see them in transition defense.

    They don't look tired per se, but that is part of it. Good teams start off games picking them apart with passing in the HC. The issue is very clearly a combo of the system and the lack of pure stoppers.

    It's like to stop the Pick n Roll they've gone out of their way (great) and instead have given up just about everything else (yuck).


    is the pre-rotating to the strong side to stop a player from getting to the basket.
    This is what I label "zone overload", just for clarity's sake. 2 man game brings 3 defenders to that strong side, and with the lane gap it's basically a strong side zone that says "go ahead and rotate". Where it gets burned more than rotations is if on the rotation the top man decides to instead drive, which then pulls that baseline help back over. You've got 3 guys on 2 on the formerly strong side and now your other 2 are guarding one driving. 5 on 3 is no way to go through life, son...well, something like that for Animal House fans.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-13-2008 at 03:57 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    You're right, UB. It does come down to the players wanting to get down and dirty and put forth the defensive effort. That's why I say watch future games where Murray (PG), Granger (SG), Daniels (SF), Harrison (or Foster) (C) and Foster (or Ike) are on the floor. These five will put forth defensive effort w/Daniels being the weakest link of the group. But as long as he can stay in man-D and he doesn't have to rotate on a perimeter switch he's usually okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    This is what I label "zone overload", just for clarity's sake. 2 man game brings 3 defenders to that strong side, and with the lane gap it's basically a strong side zone that says "go ahead and rotate". Where it gets burned more than rotations is if on the rotation the top man decides to instead drive, which then pulls that baseline help back over. You've got 3 guys on 2 on the formerly strong side and now your other 2 are guarding one driving. 5 on 3 is no way to go through life, son...well, something like that for Animal House fans.
    That is exactly what I was referring to concerning how Daniels tends to get burned on rotating defensively. He usually becomes that "2nd" defender chasing down the ball handler on dribble penetration when instead what he should be doing is picking up the open man on the PnR. Unless he can assist in trapping the ball handler out beyond the 3-pt line it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for him to try and cover an man who's already covered on dribble penetration. Rotate to the man waiting out on the wing and you can stop alot of the open jump shots that have killed the Pacers all season long. And most of those have come by Daniels leaving his man open!!!
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 03-13-2008 at 04:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    I think there is a difference between actively looking to fast break and taking the first shot that presents itself in a half court set.

    The Spurs are a slow team but with Parker and Manu, they get their fair share of fast break points whenever an opposing shot goes into a position that is favourable for them to get into the open court. When its not there they slow it down and run their offense.

    I'm not sure you cant be a good/great defensive team if you are playing the offense that the Pacers run, but it may require more coordination about when the shot is going to go up so players know when to the shot is going to go up so that guys not going to the offensive glass are ready to get back.

    Though its fairly consistant that the more 3s you shoot the more fast break points you will give up.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    Seth brings up a good point about those Nets. It's a Byron Scott thing because the Hornets defense is also about forcing TO's. I don't watch them so I don't know how much they run, but I remember from the preseason how it was said (while we played them) that their defense is about creating turnovers.

    That's the only way I think you could be a "running" team while playing great D.

    Of course, I don't know if I'd call them (NJN) a running team or not.

    Shouldn't the term be reserved for teams who will run on you even if you make a shot? I still don't see how you can be that kind of a team and play great D at the same time. Maybe at lower levels of basketball, but not the NBA. Too much talent, too much time on the clock.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    To answer the original Q, "NO!" And, for all you zealots that just love the way Phoenix played "BS" (before Shaq), there's a reason why management there gave up on it. If we want to clone a style, let's go back to the style that made the East so powerful for so many years. The team that plays that way today is Detroit. I do not like Detroit, but having said that, I admire and respect the way they play. There's nothing wrong in pushing the ball up the floor when you have a great point guard (we don't) and the defense is asleep (which is pretty rare in the NBA), but when it comes down to it, you have to be able to grind it out. That's what the Playoffs are all about. JOB's style of chucking up 3's with no offensive rebounding is doomed to fail.
    Last edited by madison; 03-13-2008 at 05:32 PM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    Yes. Low scores are not good defense.

    A bad team, a team with no shot at winning a championship may win a few more games by slowing the game down and stretching out the game.

    A good team plays good defense and doesn't have to slow down a game to win.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Can a running team like the Pacers still be a great defensive team

    of course not...or a good rebounding team. Cause you got all our guys flying out on the break trying to stop and pop for that transition 3 each time down...
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

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