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Thread: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

  1. #51
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    One thing I always find interesting. Whenever anyone questions the fans lack of support of the Pacers - most of you get real offended and tell us why you don't go to games.

    OK, I understand that reaction. But the point is we are only talking about 3000 or 4000 fans per game in a city the size of Indianapolis. (actually now it is more like 5000 or 6000 per fans needed to fill the building) There are plenty of people who have enough money to spend on the pacers in this city.

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I usually hate whenever anyone uses the race card - but if you don't think race is an issue in the way people feel about the NBA in this city - then you haven't lived here very long. Indianapolis has never been an NBA city, sure they were a pacers city for a few years, but this city has never "bought into" the NBA - and yes race is an issue in that.
    As always....race was not an issue during the ABA days. People loved Reggie and the Davis's. It may be for a very small faction but don't let the action of a few....(where have I heard that recently)..yada yada


    BTW>>>I JUST HEARD ON ESPN RADIO

    Mike Tirico (sp) said that the Big Ten Tourney belonged in Indianapolis and should ALWAYS be played there.
    Not too shabby for a town that can't support sports.
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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Twes View Post
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    Because the USA guys make hundreds of millions of dollars and like to call themselves the best in the world.
    So what? A lot of guys make a lot of money, including guys who are the best basketball players from Europe and South America who play in the NBA and make a lot of money.

    Guys like Peja, Dirk, Kirilenko, Bogut, Yao, Ginoboli, Gasol and Nash are all the best basketball players from their respective countries and they all choose to play in the NBA where they make a lot of money. Is this some huge turnoff?

    Who the hell cares how much money they make? If the league they play for is generating enough revenue to pay them their salaries, then they're just earning what they're making.

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    I just paid $3.69 a gallon for BP Premium. Think that will affect the number of people going to games?
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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    dennaB Twes's Avatar
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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    So what? A lot of guys make a lot of money, including guys who are the best basketball players from Europe and South America who play in the NBA and make a lot of money.

    Guys like Peja, Dirk, Kirilenko, Bogut, Yao, Ginoboli, Gasol and Nash are all the best basketball players from their respective countries and they all choose to play in the NBA where they make a lot of money. Is this some huge turnoff?

    Who the hell cares how much money they make? If the league they play for is generating enough revenue to pay them their salaries, then they're just earning what they're making.
    So you're telling me the NBA players view themselves as "just another team" in the world order?

    That may be. But that wasn't always the case.

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    As always....race was not an issue during the ABA days. People loved Reggie and the Davis's. It may be for a very small faction but don't let the action of a few....(where have I heard that recently)..yada yada


    BTW>>>I JUST HEARD ON ESPN RADIO

    Mike Tirico (sp) said that the Big Ten Tourney belonged in Indianapolis and should ALWAYS be played there.
    Not too shabby for a town that can't support sports.
    That is college

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    So what? A lot of guys make a lot of money, including guys who are the best basketball players from Europe and South America who play in the NBA and make a lot of money.

    Guys like Peja, Dirk, Kirilenko, Bogut, Yao, Ginoboli, Gasol and Nash are all the best basketball players from their respective countries and they all choose to play in the NBA where they make a lot of money. Is this some huge turnoff?

    Who the hell cares how much money they make? If the league they play for is generating enough revenue to pay them their salaries, then they're just earning what they're making.
    The average joe schmoe who sees those numbers and then looks at the Police notices and wonders WTH the league has come to.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    That is college

    It's still sports and it's still Indy residents supporting it (and it ain't racist).
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Twes View Post
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    So you're telling me the NBA players view themselves as "just another team" in the world order?

    That may be. But that wasn't always the case.
    So they think they're the best? So what? For a long time, they clearly were and now they have more competition as the world has gotten better. Now they appear very determined to get back to being 1st place. Hardly means they are "getting spanked" like you said.

    And what does this have to do with Pacer attendance, as there is obviously a lot of good attendance around the NBA despite Team USA finishing 3rd at the last 2 major international tournamounts.

  10. #60

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Unclebuck
    That is college


    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer
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    It's still sports and it's still Indy residents supporting it.
    Ah! But the perspective is different!!

    The college sports fan can tolerate a college player getting into mischief because of his maturity level, as well as the level of professionalism expected of him. By and large, he or she is still a kid at school albeit an institution of higher learning. That isn't so at the pro level.

    So, yes, it's the same city, same residency, but altogether different mentality for each.

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    The average joe schmoe who sees those numbers and then looks at the Police notices and wonders WTH the league has come to.
    Detroit had the brawl happen right in there very own stands and they have the best attendance in the league. That was the worst incident to ever happen in the league right in their own building but it obviously hasn't prevented their fans from coming back.

    While we're on this topic, the NFL has every bit (if not more) as many off the field problems from their players as the NBA. Vick, PacMan Jones, Rae Carruth, Darrell Russell, Michael Irvin, Leon Lett, the Cincinnati Bengals just to name a few. Doesn't seem to have affected them. (To be fair, they have far more players, so the probability of someone from their league getting into trouble is greater).

    They've had these incidents plus prominent players busted for steroids and all you get is a shrug of the shoulder. The fans still come out and watch.

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I usually hate whenever anyone uses the race card - but if you don't think race is an issue in the way people feel about the NBA in this city - then you haven't lived here very long. Indianapolis has never been an NBA city, sure they were a pacers city for a few years, but this city has never "bought into" the NBA - and yes race is an issue in that.

    I lived in Indy for 21 years...and I have lived in seven other cities since then. When people find out I am a Pacer fan...and I have lived in NY and TN since "the brawl"...I hear the Pacers described the same way.

    The Colts have a diverse lineup...as did the Reggie Miller era Pacers. That doesn't mean underlyying racism doesn't exist now, or didn't exist then (nor is it OK)...it did and it does...but I think the Pacers issues go far beyond that in my opinion.
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    It's still sports and it's still Indy residents supporting it (and it ain't racist).
    My whole point is that Indianapolis is not a good NBA city - they are a great college basketball city. if you look at the ratings for the final four every year Indianapolis rates right at the top - the only cities that do better are those that might have a local team in the final four. NBA finals ratings are horrible in Indianapolis - compared to other cities

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    One thing I always find interesting. Whenever anyone questions the fans lack of support of the Pacers - most of you get real offended and tell us why you don't go to games.

    OK, I understand that reaction. But the point is we are only talking about 3000 or 4000 fans per game in a city the size of Indianapolis. (actually now it is more like 5000 or 6000 per fans needed to fill the building) There are plenty of people who have enough money to spend on the pacers in this city.
    Just because you have money doesn't mean the Pacers are entitled to that money.

    II think it comes down to people feeling like the team is heading in the right direction.

    Rebuilding and losing are one thing when you feel the team is on its way. Losing seasons aren't the problem if it's part of a cycle.

    I don't know anybody that feels the team is on it's way.

    For me the notion that I'm required to drop thousands of dollars to be a true fan does rub me the wrong way.

    I was in the arena the night after the brawl and gave standing ovations to the 6 young guys that busted their @sses that night and showed heart.

    From what I've seen this city supports guys with heart that want to win.

    In fairness I'm sure there are guys on the team now that have some heart and give us everything they have. I'm sure they want to be heading in the right direction just as much as fans want them to be.

    As soon as this team shows they want to win and are willing to build a winner here the fans will fall in place.

    The fans are not the problem.

  15. #65
    dennaB Twes's Avatar
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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    So they think they're the best? So what? For a long time, they clearly were and now they have more competition as the world has gotten better. Now they appear very determined to get back to being 1st place. Hardly means they are "getting spanked" like you said.

    And what does this have to do with Pacer attendance, as there is obviously a lot of good attendance around the NBA despite Team USA finishing 3rd at the last 2 major international tournamounts.
    I'll concede that point. In my mind NBA guys should be spanking others and anything less is getting spanked.

    It has to do with Pacer attendance and NBA attendance overall. Disillusionment with the NBA game. My point was that the NBA used to be considered the best in the world. Now they aren't.

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Umm.. Lol, this guy should know what he's talkin about before he tries slammin us fans..

    First of all.. We are still watching them.. Most of us just aren't going to the game in person..

    Second of all.. Who would love a team full of trouble makers/players that don't even want to be here. Only us TRUE fans of basketball would even begin to try..

    Just because you don't go directly to the game (expensive) doesn't mean you abandoned them.. They don't see all of us fans whom are sitting at home and rooting for our team.. He really needs to get his facts straight before he starts bad talking the fans that know BOB SANDERS. lol

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    My whole point is that Indianapolis is not a good NBA city - they are a great college basketball city. if you look at the ratings for the final four every year Indianapolis rates right at the top - the only cities that do better are those that might have a local team in the final four. NBA finals ratings are horrible in Indianapolis - compared to other cities
    Agreed, and that's not saying anything bad about Indy.

    It's just tough to establish a pro team in an area where the amateur arm of the sport is such a religion. That's why the NBA has and always will struggle to find its place in an area like North Carolina. I think the Pacers for most of their existence have done a great job.

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Twes View Post
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    Disillusionment with the NBA game. My point was that the NBA used to be considered the best in the world. Now they aren't.
    The NBA has the best players in the world. They have the best players from the US and Europe and other countries. There is no debate about that. The best players from these countries that have won or placed very high in these tournamounts all have players who play in the NBA.

    Now if you want to argue that people don't like the NBA game in particular, then that's more valid. It's a different game. The NBA has 48 minute games instead of 40. They have a farther 3 point line. They have a much longer season. It's a different game than FIBA or NCAA rules.

  19. #69
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Twes View Post
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    I was in the arena the night after the brawl and gave standing ovations to the 6 young guys that busted their @sses that night and showed heart.

    From what I've seen this city supports guys with heart that want to win.

    In fairness I'm sure there are guys on the team now that have some heart and give us everything they have. I'm sure they want to be heading in the right direction just as much as fans want them to be.
    But it has been proven that sure for a few games, the fans will support a heart and hustle team, but eventiually they want wins. Because I defy any of you to suggest Foster, Dunleavy, Deiner, Granger aren't playing with heart right now). No one remembers that the post brawl heart and hustle team also lost 6 straight after the brwl.

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    But it has been proven that sure for a few games, the fans will support a heart and hustle team, but eventiually they want wins. Because I defy any of you to suggest Foster, Dunleavy, Deiner, Granger aren't playing with heart right now). No one remembers that the post brawl heart and hustle team also lost 6 straight after the brwl.
    I think fans support heart and hustle but they also want an underlying belief that the team is heading in the right direction.

    Weaknesses are being shored up and problems are being fixed.

    People want something to believe in.

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    While we're on this topic, the NFL has every bit (if not more) as many off the field problems from their players as the NBA. Vick, PacMan Jones, Rae Carruth, Darrell Russell, Michael Irvin, Leon Lett, the Cincinnati Bengals just to name a few. Doesn't seem to have affected them. (To be fair, they have far more players, so the probability of someone from their league getting into trouble is greater).

    They've had these incidents plus prominent players busted for steroids and all you get is a shrug of the shoulder. The fans still come out and watch.
    I understand what you are trying to say, but at the same time you mentioned six players by name from a league of, what, 32 teams? We could replace those six names with the names of six Pacers from a roster of fifteen.

    If you go by that comparison, the Pacers, all by themselves, have had nearly as many players involved in bad press as an entire football league.

    I realize I'm stretching things a bit, but that is close to what a lot of people see. A team with as many problems as an entire league.

    Not saying that it is right, or just. But a person's perception is their reality.

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    I think it's a combination of the losing and the fact that TPTB keep saying the same thing over and over again. Fans not coming to games because a team is losing is normal in the NBA. It's been three seasons since the 61-win ECF team and the attendance has dropped by about 5,500 (if you use the "official" 12,000 or so number reported in the Star this morning). Three seasons after their 6th championship, the Bulls attendance dropped by approximately the same amount. As a fan, I was proud of the fact that Donnie was able to rebuild on the fly from the 2000 finals team and never miss the playoffs so we as fans never had to endure the 15-20 win teams. Unfortunately, I think now the fans would rather have the 15-20 win team so at least they have a high draft pick or some cap space to get some free agents to look forward too. Right now, it's as if the team is on a plataeu and all we have to look forward to is a mid 1st round draft pick who hopefully will pan out and give some production and the same ol' song in free agency of lower tier role players because there is no cap space.

  23. #73
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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    all of these arguments are great, but IMO only go to further my case that there is no one reason why people are not coming.

    It's not just wins, it's not just image, it's not just the economy. It's a little of all of it.

    I am not dumb enough to profess to any of you that the fieldhouse will be filled night in and night out with a 20 win team.

    However nobody should be niave enough to believe that the team will fill the stands with 50 wins and still having the exact same off court/on court problems.

    People just want to talk about the off court troubles. I'm telling you it is far more than that.

    Let's look at Jackson for a moment. Was it his actions at the brawl? Was it the off court stuff?

    The answer is yes, but....

    Many fans, myself included, were very put off by his standing back to argue with refs. while everyone else ran down to defend (BTW O'Neal was every bit as much an offender of this as well). But most importantly of them all some of us were down right offended that he would curse Rick Carlisle out every time he took him out of a game. If you want to call us rubes and heyseeds for believeing that it is not the players place to openly yell at the coach then so be it.

    I don't care if Rick Carlisle professed undying love for him, you still don't do that.

    This does not even take into account some of the free lancing he would do on the court.

    I'm just saying this to make sure everyone knows that it is not just club rio, 8 seconds or whatever.

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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Ya know?? MAYBE... JUST MAYBE if our Indiana Pacers had a packed Conseco Fieldhouse , or at LEAST a good attendance cheering them on... MAYBE they WOULD WIN ALOT MORE GAMES .. Matter of fact.. I can guarantee they would win more games, even with the injuries that have befallen this team..

    DID ANYONE OF YOU EVER STOP TO CONSIDER THAT?!?!

    I mean seriously think about this from a player's perspective for a minute..
    If you were a player , you would get pumped, and play not only with more enthusiasm, but with all your heart , if you had 10,000 screaming fans helping you through these tough times (with the injuries) at our own damn homecourt..
    As it is right now we HAVE NO HOMECOURT ADVANTAGE... zero , zilch , zip.. (ok well , maybe being used to their own basketball rims) but that is it!!..

    Once I get back to working in the next week or so , I am gonna try my damndest to at the very least to go to a few games... and support MY hometeam.. Granted there are a few players I really don't like all that much , and one player ( Tinsley ) that I can't stand seeing stinking it up on the court like he tends to do 65% of the time.. But I love watching Dunleavy , Granger , Foster , Diener and Rush play.. If I could afford it I would have at least some partial season tickets.. But since I can't right now, I am still gonna stick up for the guys that ARE TRYING, and support OUR TEAM... through thick and thin... I would be heartbroken if the Pacer's left Indy because of the fair-weather fans , who have the audacity to call themselves Indiana Pacer's fans... turning their back on these guys who don't get no hometown love, when the chips are down... Then these same "fans" will cry cause we no longer have an NBA team anymore.. wondering why
    Last edited by Kemo; 03-11-2008 at 03:58 PM.
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
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    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    The only fix for this situation is time.

    The Pacers front office has to reallize what they have now is going to be their lot in life until public perception changes with roster changes and winning.

    Us hardcore fans have to take this in stride, calling the locals out isn't getting anyone anywhere, no matter how many valid points Benner might have made... He was way out of line! I don't see anyone seeing his point, just the finger pointing.

    As far as the locals that have turned their back on the team for whatever reason they have...We all have to remember that in their own minds, their reasons are justified to them and that is all that matters. I personally will welcome them back to the bandwagon when that time comes, believe me, it will come again.

    There isn't any one or two season fix, Hell, I'm a sunshiner and I know that this leaky row boat needs a lot of help. Using what we have in the form of J.O. and Tinsley is like using rotten timbers to build an "A" frame house. It looks good, but when it is time to stand the test of a season, it breaks down and is virtually unusable. That is why I believe that Larry Bird is not the right man for this job, his ranting on about "I didn't come here to rebuild, I wanna win" just tells me that he is unwilling to have a plan that might result in accepting that there will be lean years.

    Before anyone starts running around blathering about the Trail Blazers...Remember, luck played a major factor into their rebuild.

    One of the wealthiest men on earth as an owner. His ability and desire to get rid of certain players expediated a crummy situation.

    Major league luck in the draft with BOTH Oden and Aldridge. Remember, Portland by probability were suppose to draft 6th, not first.

    Even with all this probable sucess, no one has yet to see G. Oden play a single NBA game.
    Last edited by Roaming Gnome; 03-11-2008 at 04:08 PM.
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