Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 141

Thread: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

  1. #101
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,772

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    As long as we're getting technical on "thug":

    thug
    1810, "member of a gang of murderers and robbers in India who strangled their victims," from Marathi thag, thak "cheat, swindler," Hindi thag, perhaps from Skt. sthaga-s "cunning, fraudulent," possibly from sthagayati "(he) covers, conceals," from PIE base *(s)teg- "cover" (see stegosaurus). Transferred sense of "ruffian, cutthroat" first recorded 1839. The more correct Indian name is phanseegur, and the activity was described in Eng. as far back as c.1665. Rigorously prosecuted by the British from 1831, they were driven from existence, but the process extended over the rest of the 19c.
    Online Etymology Dictionary

    But that's not really the point I was trying to make. I was simply observing that the contextual perception of the word "thug" has changed in the last 20-30 years to have more racial connotations.

    People are staying away from Pacer games for a million reasons. Race and racism could be a factor for some, but odds are those people were staying away even at the peak of their popularity.

    I think, on the whole, Indianapolis is a good sports town, but not a good PROFESSIONAL sports town. Many of the professional sports fans here follow both the Colts and the Pacer, and many have to choose one over the other. Let's face it. These days it's easier to pick the Colts. However, let's not forget just a few scant years ago, it seemed like everyone had the Colts bundled off to LA. It sure seemed like the league wanted it that way.

    We will never be like Chicago, who is second in attendance this year despite being a scant 1 game ahead of us. Who was third in attendance in 2003-2004, averaging over 3,000 more fans per game with 23 wins than we did while winning 61.

    Some of it's demographics, some of it's culture, some of it's just plain population totals (both citizenry and corporate). On the whole, it's a limitation, but not one that would not allow both the Pacers and Colts to be solidly successful here, if the product is good.

    The problem I have with Benner on this article is that he decided to wag his finger at everybody. Rather than saying "Hey, I get why you're frustrated, but here are the reasons we still need to turn out and support the Pacers", he decided to try and push people's buttons by playing the "real sports town" card.

  2. #102
    Member Evan_The_Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis, In. via Oakland, Ca.
    Age
    33
    Posts
    3,411

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    BTW, how do you explain the poster who loves Granger or Reggie and calls Jackson and Tinsley thugs? Is he a racist? Or is he sick of off court incidents? Seriously, I doubt people are using the term the way you think they are. In any event, I will refrain from using that word here just to be civil.
    I don't want to come across as if I'm pulling the card and calling people racists. I'm not doing that, I'm not the card pulling type. I'm just saying the word thug itself has a racial undertone, and it sort of reminds me of the 'N' word because it's beginning to be used in a similar form (not always by the people on this board).

  3. #103

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    I think the issue comes down to the fact that Indy will never embrace a team whose players are constantly in the news for off-court issues. Look at Indy and the past 20 years whom have fans embraced? Peyton Manning, Reggie Miller, Jim Harbaugh, Marshall Faulk, the Davis boys, Rik Smits, Dwight Freeney, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, etc. How many incidents have you heard of regarding any of these guys and their behaviors off the court or field while they were with Indy? Sure, there have been some minor incidents, but nothing like those of the Pacers.

    When the Colts had issues with players, in many cases, those players were left looking for work shortly thereafter (i.e. Steve Muhammad). Sure, I realize that you're able to cut players easily in the NFL vs the NBA, but the Colts never let any character issues get out of hand like the Pacers have.

    It's not a race issue at all. Indy supported and embraced guys like Edgerrin James with his gold teeth and dreadlocks who couldn't wait to get to Miami every year and also guys like Rik Smits who was a somewhat goofy European. Reggie Miller was loved from Fort Wayne to Evansville and everywhere in between, so it's not a race issue. If Mike Dunleavy were getting high with Harrison and arrested for DUI's or drugs, the fans would dislike him as much as Tinsley.

    Fans in Indy simply do not like and will not tolerate a Jamaal Tinsley, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, and even guys like Daniels, Williams and Harrison to an extent. These guys weren't just in the news once, but on multiple occasions. There's a point where the fans throw their hands up and say that's enough and have stopped coming to games. There's a reason why Jax was traded, why Harrison and Williams have put their houses up for sale and the fans who pay their hard earned money are tired of supporting a team where half the players either are in trouble with the law or are nursing an injury. Fans have embraced guys like Granger and Dunleavy somewhat for their willingness to play on and not complain.

    The one thing that I have noticed over the past few years is that even the casual fan of the Pacers who knew the Reggie Miller teams and even the JO and Artest teams of the mid 2000's is no longer interested in the Pacers. Think about how many groups would attend a Pacers game? Count how many you see now. Look at how many families would attend a Pacers game? Count how many attend now.

    it's not just the losing that's affected the Pacers, it's been the attitude and culture of the past several years. Until that changes, the Pacers will continue to struggle. Don't get me wrong, I love the Pacers and always will, but a few bad seeds can ruin everything else. I do feel sorry for guys like Foster, Granger, Dunleavy and others who do give it their all every night. But until something is done, when 40% of your team payroll is not playing and the attitude and culture changes, the Pacers will continue to drive away the fans.

  4. #104
    Member Noodle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    885

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    The word thug has a negative conotation not racial undertones. The word itself is not racist. Modern day black culture has adopted the word as a way of identity. This also happened with the Italian and Irish gangs. Its a way of social evolution.

  5. #105
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,988

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    This is exactly the type of scenario I predicted and was worried about. I said if the Simons think that our management team has been properly running this franchise then the next logical place to lay blame was on the fans. So now we wait and see if Benner is speaking for himself or as a PR arm of PS&E. Even if he's speaking for himself, if the Simons are like-minded (and Benner is showing you some people can surely think this way), then the next step (selling the team) isn't hard to take.

    This is a shame on many levels, but TPTB shouldn't blame the fans for not caring about the Pacers... they should blame themselves for not caring about the fans. The fans spoke a long time ago... TPTB didn't listen. That might work if you wait it out and the fans were wrong. That will blow up in your face if you wait it out and it turns out the fans were right.

    -Bball

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  6. #106
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,549

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by EmCeE View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The word thug has a negative conotation not racial undertones. The word itself is not racist. Modern day black culture has adopted the word as a way of identity. This also happened with the Italian and Irish gangs. Its a way of social evolution.
    In the Italian culture, at least, thug was not adopted as a positive term. Other words were adopted, none of which implied violence until after their use.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  7. #107
    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indy's Wild Wild West Side: 8 sec-check...Club Rio-check...Cloud 9-check
    Age
    40
    Posts
    5,935

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by EmCeE View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    IMO, the word thug has a negative conotation not racial undertones. The word itself is not racist. Modern day black culture has adopted the word as a way of identity. This also happened with the Italian and Irish gangs. Its a way of social evolution.
    Fixed!!!!

    Not all words are continued to be used to their dictionary definition in modern cultures. I guess we all have our ways of looking at things, but it is real hard for me to see the word thug used without the racial undertones.
    Last edited by Roaming Gnome; 03-12-2008 at 09:02 AM.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

  8. #108
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brown County, Indiana
    Posts
    3,720

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Back to the original topic for a minute.

    I was listening to 1070 The Fan yesterday and Kravitz and Eddie were throwing Benner so far under the bus he is unlikely to see saylight for years.

    I was actually pretty proud of them for doing that.

    Then Jersey Johnnie cam on and took it a step further.

    He related an incident from the years that the Colts were having problems with attendance, and a discussion he had with Benner at that time.

    What was Benner's reply to Jersey's concerns about the low attendance?

    "Why would people pay to see bad football being played?"

    Judging by that, it would appear Benner speaks out of both sides of his mouth.

  9. #109
    dennaB Twes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,939

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Wu-Gambino View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    For hosting big sporting events and conventions, definitely. But when it comes to actual fan support, that's a whole different story.
    What's the test? Attendance?

    Is the test of the "true sports town" a packed house regardless of the competitive level of the team?

    When Indy teams make playoff runs the arenas are loud and packed.

    Contrast that with Los Angeles in football or Atlanta in anything and I don't see this as such a bad sports town.

    When I moved here 15 years ago I could walk up to the dome and buy tickets game day. Fans didn't know when to cheer and when to be quiet.

    In the time I've been here the Pacers had a decade of playoff runs, made the finals, the Colts won a championship, Nascar came to town, Roy Jones fought here, etc etc.

    If you're whole point is attendance should never drop then so be it.

    I guess it's relative. To some of the places I've lived this is a great sports town.

  10. #110
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,754

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Back to the original topic for a minute.

    I was listening to 1070 The Fan yesterday and Kravitz and Eddie were throwing Benner so far under the bus he is unlikely to see saylight for years.

    I listened to it for as long as I could stomach it. I thought they were completely misrepresenting what Bill Benner had written. They kept asking, "do you blame the fans for the current Pacers situation" as if that was what Benner suggested. I had to turn it off

  11. #111
    woman without a team
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,055

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Did anyone call Jason Williams a thug?
    I did.

  12. #112
    dennaB Twes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,939

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Is that "Pistol Pete" Jason Williams or shotgun Jason Williams?


  13. #113
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I listened to it for as long as I could stomach it. I thought they were completely misrepresenting what Bill Benner had written. They kept asking, "do you blame the fans for the current Pacers situation" as if that was what Benner suggested. I had to turn it off
    I agree. It was pathetic. Classic strawman. I think the case I made in this thread already is dead on, I've heard nothing ever to refute it legitmately.

    Take these Pacers TOTALLY OUT OF THE EQUATION. Okay, no Ron, Jack, "incidents".

    Now explain why fans (and Kravitz at times) dismissed the Manning Colts or the Reggie Pacers, because they did. Not only did they not fill up the stadiums, they would snark-off with things like "oh, they'll never win the big one...they suck" (because those things are equivilent after all).

    My go-to with the Pacers is "Smits is a clown" which I had to listen to during his 3rd or 4th year from some loudmouth behind us at a game. And I cite the half empty arena for Dale's first game after his holdout ended (remember the days of rookie holdouts?).

    HISTORY, the fanbase can't escape their utter disdain for Reggie, Rik, Dale, Detlef, Chuck or Manning, Dungy, Harrison, Edge, etc. They had to be shown right to the front step of ultimate victory before they could come out and root for the team.

    These fans had little interest in a team that was on its way to the ECF. Go 20 games prior to the end of that season and look at all the sell-outs, or lack thereof. The product speaks for itself, that team was game 7 ECF caliber, good guys, good teamwork. "Hoosiers", as in the film version, would have recognized that talent.

    By my count there are about 7-10K of those. The rest had to see 2 ECF runs before they started to think "hey, these guys might win", as if Detlef winning back-to-back 6th man awards along side Reggie was not enough to interest them.


    So here we are again with a bunch of yahoos who won't get anywhere near Dun, Diener, Troy, Danny, etc but will be yelling at the parade 6 years from now when Danny says "greatest fans in the world" at the title celebration.

    There they'll be saying "I was with them all the time, I knew he could do it."

    I'm bitter, I say GTF on the bandwagon now. The team isn't winning, but the product in terms of character and effort is all you can ask for, if that's really the factor holding you back.


    I've said it before, the number 1 thing to make the point on unacceptable players is to show up when they sit and pass on games when they play. 15K to 6K from night to night would more than make a point and that player would be forced to sit.

    Imagine if all month people were out cheering Dun/Dan and then suddenly Tins returns and 2K are there, tumbleweeds and crickets. They'd know what was up and it would GIVE THEM AN OPTION, which is to sit him and play the guys you want out there.

    If you don't go at all then there is no option. They might as well play Tins now if you aren't going anyway. Heck, why keep Shawne out. Let his buddy play if he's out on bail even.

  14. #114
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Urban called, it wants to talk about words with no connotation.

    Hey, I live downtown, I'm urban, right? Urban music means people like me writing folk songs; urban culture is cookouts and dog walking and painting the kitchen and Pottery Barn catalogs.

    There's technical definitions and then there's implied usage.

  15. #115
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Look at Indy and the past 20 years whom have fans embraced? Peyton Manning, Reggie Miller, Jim Harbaugh, Marshall Faulk, the Davis boys, Rik Smits, Dwight Freeney, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, etc.
    Harbaugh 96, bandwagon over, mid-95 wagon not started.

    5000 Titans fans for a playoff game, who was QB?

    Pacers lose game 4 in MSA to the Knicks, lose game 3 to the Pistons...packed house?

    They DON'T embrace "good guys" if they don't win. "Winning" is a virtue to this fanbase. Dungy was bad guy for not being able to get over the hump. It was time for him to go. Win the SB and it's "what a great guy". And it's not like his teams were 4-12 either.

    Smits and his feet were thrown under the bus as much as JO is now. Fans were disgusted with him, and that wasn't just early in his career.


    Using apathetic Atlanta or LA is not a good benchmark.


    Mike Tirico (sp) said that the Big Ten Tourney belonged in Indianapolis and should ALWAYS be played there.
    Not too shabby for a town that can't support sports.
    You've just mixed points. As a city for VISITORS it's great. Good layout, easy to move around in, not too big or expensive. It's intentionally designed to be crowd friendly for the convention business.

    Not unlike how IMS was one of the most popular international venues for F1. I spoke to tons of foreign visitors and they all loved coming here because it was so easy to deal with. That has 100% nothing to do with the local fanbase supporting F1 or not.

    If it did then the Brickyard attendence wouldn't dwarf F1, and the 500 wouldn't see horrible attendence prior to race day.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-12-2008 at 02:00 PM.

  16. #116
    dennaB Twes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,939

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I agree. It was pathetic. Classic strawman. I think the case I made in this thread already is dead on, I've heard nothing ever to refute it legitmately.

    Take these Pacers TOTALLY OUT OF THE EQUATION. Okay, no Ron, Jack, "incidents".

    Now explain why fans (and Kravitz at times) dismissed the Manning Colts or the Reggie Pacers, because they did. Not only did they not fill up the stadiums, they would snark-off with things like "oh, they'll never win the big one...they suck" (because those things are equivilent after all).

    My go-to with the Pacers is "Smits is a clown" which I had to listen to during his 3rd or 4th year from some loudmouth behind us at a game. And I cite the half empty arena for Dale's first game after his holdout ended (remember the days of rookie holdouts?).

    HISTORY, the fanbase can't escape their utter disdain for Reggie, Rik, Dale, Detlef, Chuck or Manning, Dungy, Harrison, Edge, etc. They had to be shown right to the front step of ultimate victory before they could come out and root for the team.

    These fans had little interest in a team that was on its way to the ECF. Go 20 games prior to the end of that season and look at all the sell-outs, or lack thereof. The product speaks for itself, that team was game 7 ECF caliber, good guys, good teamwork. "Hoosiers", as in the film version, would have recognized that talent.

    By my count there are about 7-10K of those. The rest had to see 2 ECF runs before they started to think "hey, these guys might win", as if Detlef winning back-to-back 6th man awards along side Reggie was not enough to interest them.


    So here we are again with a bunch of yahoos who won't get anywhere near Dun, Diener, Troy, Danny, etc but will be yelling at the parade 6 years from now when Danny says "greatest fans in the world" at the title celebration.

    There they'll be saying "I was with them all the time, I knew he could do it."

    I'm bitter, I say GTF on the bandwagon now. The team isn't winning, but the product in terms of character and effort is all you can ask for, if that's really the factor holding you back.


    I've said it before, the number 1 thing to make the point on unacceptable players is to show up when they sit and pass on games when they play. 15K to 6K from night to night would more than make a point and that player would be forced to sit.

    Imagine if all month people were out cheering Dun/Dan and then suddenly Tins returns and 2K are there, tumbleweeds and crickets. They'd know what was up and it would GIVE THEM AN OPTION, which is to sit him and play the guys you want out there.

    If you don't go at all then there is no option. They might as well play Tins now if you aren't going anyway. Heck, why keep Shawne out. Let his buddy play if he's out on bail even.
    You do realize Benner is talking to you too?

  17. #117
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brown County, Indiana
    Posts
    3,720

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I agree. It was pathetic. Classic strawman. I think the case I made in this thread already is dead on, I've heard nothing ever to refute it legitmately.
    Perhaps not in your own mind or opinion, but those making opposing opinions have as much right to their own definition of "legit".

    HISTORY, the fanbase can't escape their utter disdain for Reggie, Rik, Dale, Detlef, Chuck or Manning, Dungy, Harrison, Edge, etc.
    What?

    I've said it before, the number 1 thing to make the point on unacceptable players is to show up when they sit and pass on games when they play. 15K to 6K from night to night would more than make a point and that player would be forced to sit.
    That is all well and good, but you don't always know when a player is going to be bench-ridden. Example: Williams did not play vs. the Sonics last night.


    Let me just put this idea to you, and see if you agree.

    We all (here at PD) care. We may disagree about what is wrong, who is to blame, what to do about it, etc..

    But we all care. Otherwise, we wouldn't see all these posts with so much passion behind them.

    Simply, we all care or we would not be here. I think sometimes we all tend to forget that.

    We also all have a right to support the current team (or not) to whatever extent we are comfortable with. You can't really knock someone who has decided to not spend their money on any given product.

    Maybe it takes the team getting to the finals before going to a game makes its way up a person's financial ladder of importance enough for them to attend. That is their choice. I just can't see anything wrong with that.
    Last edited by Tom White; 03-12-2008 at 03:30 PM.

  18. #118
    woman without a team
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,055

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Twes View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Is that "Pistol Pete" Jason Williams or shotgun Jason Williams?

    The one that wears the Miami Heat uniform. Any other way I might describe him (or anyone else for that matter) might be construed as racist or bigoted or something else.

  19. #119
    Member Wu-Gambino's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Avon, IN
    Posts
    429

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Twes View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What's the test? Attendance?

    Is the test of the "true sports town" a packed house regardless of the competitive level of the team?

    When Indy teams make playoff runs the arenas are loud and packed.

    Contrast that with Los Angeles in football or Atlanta in anything and I don't see this as such a bad sports town.

    When I moved here 15 years ago I could walk up to the dome and buy tickets game day. Fans didn't know when to cheer and when to be quiet.

    In the time I've been here the Pacers had a decade of playoff runs, made the finals, the Colts won a championship, Nascar came to town, Roy Jones fought here, etc etc.

    If you're whole point is attendance should never drop then so be it.

    I guess it's relative. To some of the places I've lived this is a great sports town.
    Maybe you're right, I guess Indy is not truly a "bad" sports town, it's just almost every other city in the country, a bandwagon town. In fact, there's only one city that seems to have supported their teams through the thick and thin: Chicago. Of course even then, the White Sox had some problems with attendance and will probably see some more problems with attendance in the future. There are, however, franchises whose fanbase is made up of die hards who fill up the seats no matter how good or bad the team is, and I don't think one NBA team fits this mold (I would say the Jazz and the Bulls are the closest).

  20. #120
    dennaB Twes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,939

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Wu-Gambino View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Maybe you're right, I guess Indy is not truly a "bad" sports town, it's just almost every other city in the country, a bandwagon town. In fact, there's only one city that seems to have supported their teams through the thick and thin: Chicago. Of course even then, the White Sox had some problems with attendance and will probably see some more problems with attendance in the future. There are, however, franchises whose fanbase is made up of die hards who fill up the seats no matter how good or bad the team is, and I don't think one NBA team fits this mold (I would say the Jazz and the Bulls are the closest).
    I also think of Green Bay in football. I think of the Cubs in Chicago.

    I do understand the argument, the point about support.

    I just see this area as a lifeblood of basketball support that the team is screwing up.

    If they get this thing fixed the support will be fine.

    Just my opinion.

  21. #121

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    People keep conjuring up these cities where people stand with their teams through thick and thin, win or lose, where there are no bandwagon fans. I don't even know if it is possible to know the answer to that. You can look at ticket sales, where the teams rank in attendance, etc. and get some idea I guess, but every town has its own unique circumstances. You really can't compare a city like Chicago to Indy for example, because of the sheer population and demographic differences. If you factor in all the businesses that buy tickets and all the other external factors...it isn't even close to comparable. There are probably alot of people judging what kind of sports team Indy is...and they haven't lived anywere else.

    Let's say you are a fan of a rock band...you buy all of their albums for awhile, and you start paying to see them every time they come to town. Let's say later...they change the lead singer...they have substance abuse problems...and the combination leads to CD's of poor quality, and their live performances are horrid. You might be a fan of some of their early music, and you probably have found memories of their old shows. Are you a bad fan because you stop paying for crappy CD's and crappy concerts? Are you a bandwagon fan because you only paid for them when you liked the product they were selling? You probably still like the band deep down...and if they get their stuff together...you would probably be willing to start shelling out your hard earned money for their CD's and concerts.

    The Pacers aren't a religion or a country, they are a basketball team. The Pacers organization is ran as a business. Like any business...the better quality they put out...the more revenue...and hopefully...the more profit they generate. It really isn't that complicated. When the quality is poor (or perceived poor)...less people will attend. Simple supply and demand at work.

    When a restaurant loses customers because of health code violations, or because their once great burger is subpar...it isn't the customers fault. That is sheer lunacy. Can you honestly think of another business that you patronize in a similar manner?

    The sky isn't falling, this isn't the end of the world, and Indy is not a sub-par sports town. The team has been plagued by bad judgement of its players, poor execution by management, bad luck, and a natural rebuiliding cycle. I sincerely believe that if they haven't hit rock bottom yet...then they are close. Larry and/or Walsh has alot of work to do, and even though this might not be all of their faults, it is their responsiblity to resolve it. They get paid alot of money to do so.

    The Pacers will claw out of this eventually, and when the do, the fans will come back. Fans will continue to fluctuate in numbers and support based on how the team does. I think that common sense denotes this is going to happen.
    When you're playing against a stacked deck, compete even harder. Show the world how much you'll fight for the winners circle. If you do, someday the cellophane will crackle off a fresh pack, one that belongs to you, and the cards will be stacked in your favor.
    -Pat Riley

  22. #122
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,607

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by brich View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    People keep conjuring up these cities where people stand with their teams through thick and thin, win or lose, where there are no bandwagon fans. I don't even know if it is possible to know the answer to that. You can look at ticket sales, where the teams rank in attendance, etc. and get some idea I guess, but every town has its own unique circumstances. You really can't compare a city like Chicago to Indy for example, because of the sheer population and demographic differences. If you factor in all the businesses that buy tickets and all the other external factors...it isn't even close to comparable. There are probably alot of people judging what kind of sports team Indy is...and they haven't lived anywere else.

    Let's say you are a fan of a rock band...you buy all of their albums for awhile, and you start paying to see them every time they come to town. Let's say later...they change the lead singer...they have substance abuse problems...and the combination leads to CD's of poor quality, and their live performances are horrid. You might be a fan of some of their early music, and you probably have found memories of their old shows. Are you a bad fan because you stop paying for crappy CD's and crappy concerts? Are you a bandwagon fan because you only paid for them when you liked the product they were selling? You probably still like the band deep down...and if they get their stuff together...you would probably be willing to start shelling out your hard earned money for their CD's and concerts.

    The Pacers aren't a religion or a country, they are a basketball team. The Pacers organization is ran as a business. Like any business...the better quality they put out...the more revenue...and hopefully...the more profit they generate. It really isn't that complicated. When the quality is poor (or perceived poor)...less people will attend. Simple supply and demand at work.

    When a restaurant loses customers because of health code violations, or because their once great burger is subpar...it isn't the customers fault. That is sheer lunacy. Can you honestly think of another business that you patronize in a similar manner?

    The sky isn't falling, this isn't the end of the world, and Indy is not a sub-par sports town. The team has been plagued by bad judgement of its players, poor execution by management, bad luck, and a natural rebuiliding cycle. I sincerely believe that if they haven't hit rock bottom yet...then they are close. Larry and/or Walsh has alot of work to do, and even though this might not be all of their faults, it is their responsiblity to resolve it. They get paid alot of money to do so.

    The Pacers will claw out of this eventually, and when the do, the fans will come back. Fans will continue to fluctuate in numbers and support based on how the team does. I think that common sense denotes this is going to happen.
    I hereby proclaim this as post of the mellinium.

  23. #123
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I hereby proclaim this as post of the mellinium.
    +1

  24. #124
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,772

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I hereby proclaim this as post of the mellinium.
    Not much of a millenium.

  25. #125
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: IBJ: A "real" sports town wouldn't abandon the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Not much of a millenium.
    It's going to resonate for the rest of this millenium.

Similar Threads

  1. Pacers Losing the Hustle Wars; Not Playing "Their" Game
    By NuffSaid in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 11-24-2007, 09:57 AM
  2. Star> Pacers retain their cool, put halt to losing streak
    By Will Galen in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-19-2007, 03:40 PM
  3. Article: Change of Pacers upstairs (from Boston Globe)
    By BostonConnection in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 11-19-2007, 12:52 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-15-2007, 10:52 PM
  5. Daily Dime - Celtics vs. Pacers
    By JayRedd in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-14-2007, 10:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •