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Thread: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

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    Default Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...rrives_-050308



    When Mike Dunleavy, Jr. was drafted third overall by the Golden State Warriors in 2002, he was just beginning the start of five very rough years in the Bay Area.

    Dunleavy was called an underachiever and a bust. Still, he was signed to a five-year extension worth $44 million after three less-than-stellar years with Golden State and was tagged as "overpaid" as well.

    Adding fuel to the fire, he was constantly booed by Oakland fans. When Don Nelson arrived in Golden State in 2006, he called the player "soft", and Dunleavy found himself at the end of Nelson's bench.

    In January of 2007, Dunleavy was traded along with Troy Murphy, Ike Diogu, and Keith McLeod to the Indiana Pacers in exchange for Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington, Sarunas Jasikevicius, and Josh Powell.

    Dunleavy played 43 games in the rest of the ‘06-‘07 season with the Pacers. While he did improve his game on all fronts, he was still a long way off from being worthy of the number three overall pick. Plus, he hadn't exactly shaken his unflattering nicknames.

    Meanwhile, the Warriors seemed to be clear winners of the trade with Jackson and Harrington playing key roles in a first round upset of the top-seeded Dallas Mavericks.

    Fast forward nine months and you’ll see that Dunleavy is coming off his second straight game with 36 points—marking the sixth time this season that he has surpassed 30 in a game. In his previous six NBA seasons, he did that a total of five times.

    This is also the third time he's netted 36 this year, a number he barely sniffed in minutes, much less points, while in Golden State.

    In the most recent 36-point outing, Dunleavy shook the "soft" label for good. He was popped in the mouth in the second quarter, forcing him back to the locker room to get a stitch. He was back in the game within minutes, right on track.

    This isn't the first time the "soft, overpaid, bust" has shown toughness this year. It seems like he's bleeding from his mouth or head just about every game, when he's not taking a charge.

    This isn't the first time he's torn up the stat sheet this year, either. He's posting career highs in points (18.2), field goal percentage (48 percent), three point percentage (39 percent), assists (3.4), rebounds (5.4), and free throw percentage (84 percent).

    With the Pacers in the bottom half of the Eastern Conference and the Warriors battling for a playoff spot in the much tougher West, it is hard to say the Pacers won that trade. However, Dunleavy's emergence as the player he was drafted to be is worth noting.

    And while most pundits would have told you Stephen Jackson was the best player changing residences in that deal, at this point it would be hard to argue against the far more effective Dunleavy.

    One thing is for sure. Dunleavy has found a home. He is playing with a ton of confidence and it is showing. People may not quite realize it yet, but Mike is an all-star caliber player, and in the weak East, he may even get a chance to show it for one series in the playoffs.
    Good read.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Dude who wrote the "article" is a freshman in college...

    There have been thousands of posts here that eclipse that piece in many ways.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbry View Post
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    Dude who wrote the "article" is a freshman in college...

    There have been thousands of posts here that eclipse that piece in many ways.
    Jack is one of my favorite players too, but I'm not mad that he called Dunleavy "far more effective".

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    its amazing how much a player gets praised for 2 back to back 36 games.

    all of a sudden he's getting all this write ups and when he plays consistently all throughout the year, these writers are nowhere to be found.

    i guess he has to average 36 just to get positive media
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Dun is more efficient on offense, but he's not far more effective than Jackson overall. I would actually rank Jack slightly over Dun strictly because of defense. They are both a notch below all-star calibre.

    BTW, the difference between GS and Indy, however, is quite significant for many reasons. First, their highest paid player (Baron Davis who is very close to all-star calibre) actually plays...A LOT this year. Second, our next 2 highest players (Dun and Murph) don't belong on the court at the same time. Third, they have not one but two players better than any of our players. Monta and Baron are both better than any Pacer...at least right now. Granger is getting close, but he's still not quite there IMO. Ellis is very efficient averaging 53.5% from the floor. Davis is underrated, clutch and a good floor general. Let's just say they have a better PG even on Tinsley's best day.

    Even Al Harrington is probably better than any active Pacer not named Dunleavy or Granger.

    They also have several other good players and barely even use Austin Croshere, who would be a workhorse on the Pacers.

    Yep, there is a big talent gap...

    Edit: As a team, we would be much better off if our talent (that actually suits up) was not concentrated at SF. We have Granger, Dunleavy, Quis, Williams and Graham who are probably best used at the SF position.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 03-06-2008 at 07:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    They also have several other good players and barely even use Austin Croshere, who would be a workhorse on the Pacers.
    .
    The Warriors would use Croshere a lot more if he was healthy, but he's been in and out with a bad back. When he's been healthy enough to play, he's been pretty good as a backup bigman.

    A couple of our primary backups (Pietrus and Barnes) who were relied upon a lot last year have played pretty poorly. They only now just started inserting Brandan Wright because Biedrins is out after having an appendectomy.

    Should be noted that the Warriors are 38-23 in the Western Conf and have done it without an all-star on the roster. They are going down to the wire in a race with Denver, which has two all-stars. They are 2-6 without Jackson and 36-17 with him.
    Last edited by d_c; 03-06-2008 at 08:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Additionally, the mentality of both teams are now drastically different. Dunleavy has zero pressure and has been able to play freely because his team isn't a serious contender. Jackson is his team's captain, premier defender, #2 scorer, and (along with BD) the dude they look to when it's the 4th quarter.

    Dunleavy has surpassed a lot of people's expectations and he's put together some excellent games and excellent individual, all-around play. His statistics are a tad inflated without JO and JT, but overall he's now proven to be most of what the original author stated.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbry View Post
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    Dunleavy has surpassed a lot of people's expectations and he's put together some excellent games and excellent individual, all-around play. His statistics are a tad inflated without JO and JT, but overall he's now proven to be most of what the original author stated.
    Another thing that was mentioned in a previous article: A lot people here criticized Nellie for how much pressure and criticism he put on Dunleavy, as if he somehow had it out for Dunleavy.

    Dunleavy said in that previous article that he now understands what it was that Nellie actually wanted out of him. Nellie wanted him to be more aggresive and just take more resonsibility for what was happening on the floor. He wanted him to do more than just let the game come to him. That's what Nellie wants out of his players, particularly the ones who he thinks have the talent to be above average.

    He put the same kind of pressure on Monta Ellis, FWIW.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    The Warriors would use Croshere a lot more if he was healthy, but he's been in and out with a bad back. When he's been healthy enough to play, he's been pretty good as a backup bigman.
    What? Cro's been available for 50% of the games. What more can you ask from a former Pacer?......

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Dunleavy's certainly a more skilled player and a significantly better scorer than Jackson. Stephen is the better defender, which evens it out. Of course taking into account each players off court issues, I'd have to take Dunleavy without a seconds hesitation.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    I don't think Dunleavy is a better scorer. I'd say him and Jackson are pretty even there. The only advantage being that Dunleavy just shoots a higher percentage.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Jackson has never seen a shot he wouldn't take, no matter how bad it is.
    No matter how much success Larry Bird attains in Indiana he'll never top that first command to fire Thomas. -Peter Vecsey. NY Post 12/4/07

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    They also have several other good players and barely even use Austin Croshere, who would be a workhorse on the Pacers.
    No way. Cro is a poor man's Murphy. He'd be nice to have in the locker room, but he wouldn't bring us anything on the court.

    Edit: As a team, we would be much better off if our talent (that actually suits up) was not concentrated at SF. We have Granger, Dunleavy, Quis, Williams and Graham who are probably best used at the SF position.
    Absolutely right.
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    I like Jackson. But Dunleavy is a better player. He may not be more talented. But he is smarter.

    Who hurts their team more when they are not playing well?

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by Shack80 View Post
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    Jackson has never seen a shot he wouldn't take, no matter how bad it is.
    Dun has never seen a player he could stop, no matter how bad they are.

    Have you ever wondered why 3 coaches with winning records have losing records when Dun/Troy show up, but win just before they get there or just after they leave.

    I know, just blind luck and circumstances. Like it just happens to be colder in March than July. Random. Next year March will be shorts weather all month and July will be snow.


    The Warriors started winning games WITHOUT Baron and JRich last year, so it's not as simple as "they have their star". Jackson is not a great shooter, his shot selection is iffy, but he does have a knack for being on the winning side.

    Remember the brawl season with Ron out, JO hurt, Tins hurt and Reggie shooting 32% from 3? That team still stayed above .500 and got into the 2nd round.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Dun is more efficient on offense, but he's not far more effective than Jackson overall. I would actually rank Jack slightly over Dun strictly because of defense. They are both a notch below all-star calibre.

    BTW, the difference between GS and Indy, however, is quite significant for many reasons. First, their highest paid player (Baron Davis who is very close to all-star calibre) actually plays...A LOT this year. Second, our next 2 highest players (Dun and Murph) don't belong on the court at the same time. Third, they have not one but two players better than any of our players. Monta and Baron are both better than any Pacer...at least right now. Granger is getting close, but he's still not quite there IMO. Ellis is very efficient averaging 53.5% from the floor. Davis is underrated, clutch and a good floor general. Let's just say they have a better PG even on Tinsley's best day.

    Even Al Harrington is probably better than any active Pacer not named Dunleavy or Granger.

    They also have several other good players and barely even use Austin Croshere, who would be a workhorse on the Pacers.

    Yep, there is a big talent gap...

    Edit: As a team, we would be much better off if our talent (that actually suits up) was not concentrated at SF. We have Granger, Dunleavy, Quis, Williams and Graham who are probably best used at the SF position.
    You're ignoring Jack and Al's mental issues. They may be more talented than Dun and Murph, but their mentality limited their effectiveness quite often.
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    The Warriors started winning games WITHOUT Baron and JRich last year, so it's not as simple as "they have their star". Jackson is not a great shooter, his shot selection is iffy, but he does have a knack for being on the winning side.
    Atlanta?
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Atlanta?
    Come on, it's Atlanta. What did they do after he was gone and they added Al and Joe Johnson?
    28 wins, trade Jack for Al, 13 wins, sign Joe Johnson, 26 wins
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-07-2008 at 02:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Jack is averaging 21, 5, and 4 as the #2 option on his team (Dunleavy is the de facto #2 option for the Pacers right now simply for lack of anything superior, let's be real about that). His defense is All-Defensive team worthy and for all the criticism of his mental state and basketball IQ, Nellie has repeatedly called him the smartest player on the Warriors.

    I feel like a broken record but you people never absorb any of this. The only arguments are Dunleavy is "more efficient" and is "smarter." The efficiency thing is solely based on percentages and not whether or not defenses actually put you in their gameplan, etc. The "smarter" argument has and always will be unsubstantiated. I consider them to both possess high basketball IQs. Dunleavy is more controlled offensively, but Jack makes bigger shots a lot more often...

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbry View Post
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    Jack is averaging 21, 5, and 4 as the #2 option on his team (Dunleavy is the de facto #2 option for the Pacers right now simply for lack of anything superior, let's be real about that). His defense is All-Defensive team worthy and for all the criticism of his mental state and basketball IQ, Nellie has repeatedly called him the smartest player on the Warriors.

    I feel like a broken record but you people never absorb any of this. The only arguments are Dunleavy is "more efficient" and is "smarter." The efficiency thing is solely based on percentages and not whether or not defenses actually put you in their gameplan, etc. The "smarter" argument has and always will be unsubstantiated. I consider them to both possess high basketball IQs. Dunleavy is more controlled offensively, but Jack makes bigger shots a lot more often...
    Yes you do sound like a broken record. What don't you get about WE DON'T CARE ABOUT JACKSON?
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Come on, it's Atlanta. What did they do after he was gone and they added Al and Joe Johnson?
    28 wins, trade Jack for Al, 13 wins, sign Joe Johnson, 26 wins
    We were only playing .500 ball when Jack was traded.

    Granted, we didn't exactly soar after he was gone, but we were certainly heading downhill with him still in a Pacers uni. So I wouldn't exactly call him a career winner.
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    Yes you do sound like a broken record. What don't you get about WE DON'T CARE ABOUT JACKSON?
    In case you haven't noticed, these Dunleavy-Jackson pissfests are started by someone other than myself every single time. I don't feel like talking about Captain Jack here as he's no longer relevant to some people, but when posters make claims I'd much rather refute them with stats instead of simply ignoring them.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    Dunleavy and Murphy are far from saviors, but Jack and Al were knuckleheads, and we don't need any more of those around here.
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    I'm gonna have to say Stephen Jackson is the better basketball player. I don't give a squirt about what they do off the court. Mike Dunleavy has never been on a NBA team with a winning record. His stats are inflated accordingly. Dunleavy has been a starter since his second season while Jack became a partial starter in his third season. Dunleavy has never been to the playoffs Jackson has missed the playoffs twice ( his rookie season in NJ & the year with ATL).


    Guess who's who
    FG%
    .443 VS .420
    3PT%
    .351 VS .340
    FT%
    .787 VS .793
    REB
    4.9 VS 3.7
    AST
    2.6 VS 2.7
    STL
    0.9 VS 1.3
    BLK
    0.3 VS 0.4
    PPG
    11.9 VS 14.7
    Playoff games
    0 VS 54
    Championships
    0 VS 1
    Cost
    $8.2 Mil VS $6.6 Mil

    Mike is playing well this year. Good players on bad teams......Mike wouldn't even be in the starting lineup on most of the "good" teams let alone a top scoring option.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers: Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Arrives

    BTW, that's just my opinion. I'm not looking to argue this into the ground.

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