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Thread: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    I figure I'll be doing recaps for the next few weeks (probably in my sleep) but to start with I figure we might as well grade the players one by one.

    It's just like school folks. A,B,C,D & F with pluses & minuses for good measure.

    Kenny Anderson. To me he was about what I expected out of him. I remember Kenny as a much younger player & I was never thrilled with him then either. He's a decent ball handler but is not what I would call a good protecter of the ball, he can be made to pick up his dribble early on. He is not a great passer but he can make passes, if that makes any sense. He's just not a good defender, period. He's not the worst in the league, but he can be lit up like a christmas tree by faster guards. But Kenny can still shoot & he can drive the lane. He was part of our fast start & IMO he can't be blamed much for that last game implosion he had. I don't expect him back next season nor can I say I really will be sorry to see him gone.

    Grade. C-

    Ron Artest. Had an outstanding season. Marred only by a couple of incidents. One when Rick pulled him for going his own way on offense & a couple of times that I questioned whether or not his headaches weren't really a coverup for something else. But neither take away from what was an all-star D.P.O.Y. season. He is one of very few Pacers who can create his own shot & he is obviousley the best defender in the league. His post season was good vs. Boston & outstanding vs. Miami. His play vs. the Pistons was mixed but still solid. Unfortunatley he ended the season on a sour note & I don't mean the flagrant foul. He went off the farm again on offense. But for the sake of grading for the hole year that really was just a pimple on the *** of the season. So for my money Ron had a solid season

    Grade. A

    Jon Bender. Injury's again. It would be easy to give him an incomplete but to me that would just be giving him a pass for once again not having a complete season. I think Jon has a problem playing unless he is at 100%. But let's look at what he did give us. For the first time I could see occasions where he didn't look like he had no clue as to what to do. He did make more of an effort this season to go down low & play some. However, when the pressure was on in the Miami & Detroit series Jon reverted to his old ways. He is getting stronger, but in all honesty how much more of this are we going to have to take. What is it that people really expect of the guy? 20 & 10? I don't see how you can have two guys doing that. I digress. Back to the season in review. I saw some growth but not nearly enough.

    Grade C+


    Jamison Brewer. He did not develop that shot he needed. He didn't get a real chance here & I just don't know that he ever will. How do you get a young guy a break when you have a young starter with a veteran backup? I fault Jamison for some of this though, if he would devolp any kind of shot he could be the backup to Jamaal.

    Grade D+


    Primoz Brezec. Waste of roster space. Anybody who actually beleives this guy will ever be anything more than the 12, 13, 14 or 15th man on an N.B.A. roster is just kidding themselves. He is virtually the same player he was when we drafted him & on a team that had a shortage of real backup big men the fact that he couldn't get off of the I.R.L. should speak volumes.

    Grade D-

    Austin Croshere. This could have been his year. This could have been the year that he made a bigger role for himself. But he didn't do it. He has got to work on consistancy. The guy comes in & does one of two things. He is either outstanding & leaves the home town fans standing and cheering or he is just useless. He never hurts you on the floor with stupid mistakes but sometimes just wondering around the perimeter is harmfull in itself. If Al or Jon or Ron are moved & we don't get a new center I do look for Austin to have a bigger role next season on the team. He did spread the floor on offense in the playoffs for us so that was helpfull & he is definately an underrated rebounder.

    Grade C+

    Jeff Foster. Made huge huge strides this season. I had written him off to being a scrub forever & he made me eat my words. Now if only he could develop any form of offense, it's on him to do it in the off-season. But as to last season we won 61 games because he wasn't the void in the middle he could have been. He even began to guard the bigger players better as the year went on & he even rebounded the tough boards that I used to gripe about him not getting. Great year for Jeff.

    Grade A

    Al Harrington. The Rodney Dangerfield of the Indiana Pacers. He gets no respect. The fact that everybody is willing to give this guy away & keep a player who for five years has yet to prove he can play in more than 30 games flabergast me. Jon bruises his shoulder & goes on the I.R.L. Al hurts his knee, chest & hip & plays on. But does anybody care? Could easily have been the 6th man of the year & probably lost it because of name value. Al could easily be a 16 & 8 player as a starter somewhere, including here. I am not convinced that Al won't still be here next year but that has nothing to do with the grade for last year. I think he could have been a little more consistant but all things considered I thought he had a great year.

    Grade A-

    Anthony Johnson. Role player. I mean that as a compliment. He knows his role & does not try to go beyond it. He is a true leader on the bench & the value of that alone is outstanding. I would really really like to see him work on his ball handling ability so that every team in the entire N.B.A. wouldn't try to half court trap him. But his shooting was solid & his defense was great. One of the better backup p.g.'s in the N.B.A. if you ask me.

    Grade B

    Fred Jones. Dunking it on Ben Wallace alone almost got an A+ from me but instead I'll just offer him a . The guy made real strides this season & made huge strides (IMO) during the playoffs. Unlike Bender when his shoulder was injured he soldiered on. Ron is already a great defender at the two spot & he guarded Hamilton as well as Ron did. His jumper got more consistant as the season progressed. Just keep on keeping on in the off-season & I wouldn't be offended to see a backcourt of Tinsely & Jones.

    Grade B

    James Jones. I have to give him an imcomplete. I have no idea about him at all.

    Reggie Miller. If he were any other player on any other team giving him anything higher than a D would not even be considered. A two guard who can only give you 10 ppg at 6 million a season is not what I consider a good thing. But this is Indiana & he is Reggie. He is getting better at being a leader vocally. He can still play. He can still play at a high level, just not as often. This was the first year though that I really have seen Reggie be such a weak link on the defensive side & that may just simply be age catching up to him. He had a good passing season & his shooting % was good. Like Croshere he does not do anything stupid to hurt you. He did hit some big shots this season. I do think the theory of him being a decoy is over used & sometimes borders on hyperboyle, but at the end of a game there is still no doubt the man can hit his shot.

    Grade C+

    Jermaine O'Neal. 3rd in line for M.V.P. says it all IMO. He did everything that we asked of him & he even sometimes gave us more. It's no seceret that I was not a big fan of his & my son keeps telling me that I will never actually accept him because he was traded for my favorite player & to some extent that may be true. But to me this guy has made a 100% improvement in attitude & floor demenor. When I called him a warrior during the Pistons series that is as high a praise as I can give to a big man. He fought the Pistons, all by himself on many occasions. I ask nothing more of the man other than to heal up & bring it strong next season.

    Grade A+

    Scot Pollard. I can't put this any other way. Only the Alex English for Big Mac & the Tom Owens for the draft pick that could have been Jordan are worse trades in franchise history. Is it his fault? I don't know, Rick tried to start him. Even after that didn't work Rick tried to play him during the season & the guy just never produced. When he airballed the hook shot that was about enough for me. Didn't rebound to what he should have, didn't defend hardly at all as for passing & receiving the ball? I didn't call him stonehands for nothing.

    Grade F

    Jamaal Tinsely. Never pouted or let his head hang when he was getting screwed at the beginning of the season. I don't know that sitting made him a better player. I can't say that it did or didn't for sure. All I know is that Jamaal is the engine that maker our car drive. When he is not in the game our offense is virtually non-existant & our guard production is almost nil. He still needs to work on lateral speed & work on his shot a little but other than that I was pretty pleased with J.T.

    Grade A-


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  2. #2
    Gold Stagger Hoop's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    I agree, very nice report card.

    I think Brewer and Primoz should get a incomplete though, neither had any PT.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  3. #3
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    Good read. Except . . . Croshere and Bender both get a C+. No comparison in my eyes. Where Austin was always ready, Bender was never ready. C-- for Bender.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  4. #4
    Member Doug in CO's Avatar
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    Default My Take

    Agree with you on Al and Jonny. To think that Bender can fill the role of Harrington is asinine. He is at best soft and at worst a p____. He will not play hurt - and I do not know if his hands are too small or what, but it seems to me that for every one stunning drive/dunk he makes, there are 2-3 turnovers using the same move - the move he always uses. I have not seen a lot of growth out of him. My frustration with him would lead me to give him a D.

    That being said, the reason Al is being talked about is his obsession with starting is immature - guess he learned it from Antonio Davis when he was living with him - and he has some real market value. I do not think there is a strong market for Bender.

    For a group of fans who got on Travis Best as much as we did - it amazes me the slack that everyone cuts Anthony Johnson. This is a guy who got at least 2 8 second violations dribbling up the court with NO ONE ON HIM. It takes him 14 seconds to make his first pass, so you are totally screwed when the shot clock is set at 14. And he can't shoot or pass like Travis did. Am I missing something? I would give him a C.

    The Scot Pollard trade was horrible. Hopefully Charlotte takes him off our hands because right now he is just using up money - money that Donnie says might not be used on the $5.6 million dollar exception because the team has a budget.

    I think Tinsley did grow on the bench - remember, this was a guy that would make the behind the back pass/turnover in the last 30 seconds of the game last year. He calmed down a lot. He still needs to work on his shot.

    The regular season Reggie gets a C - the playoff Reggie gets a D-. He is no longer deferring, he is scared to shoot. I expect him to retire.

    Jermaine and Ron are the foundation - they both get A's.

    Foster, while I like him, I still think we could do better - but do not expect us to address this position in the offseason as the guard spot takes priority.

    Does anyone have a list of FA guards?
    Heywoode says... work hard man.

  5. #5
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    Kenny Anderson. To me he was about what I expected out of him. I remember Kenny as a much younger player & I was never thrilled with him then either. He's a decent ball handler but is not what I would call a good protecter of the ball, he can be made to pick up his dribble early on. He is not a great passer but he can make passes, if that makes any sense. He's just not a good defender, period. He's not the worst in the league, but he can be lit up like a christmas tree by faster guards. But Kenny can still shoot & he can drive the lane. He was part of our fast start & IMO he can't be blamed much for that last game implosion he had. I don't expect him back next season nor can I say I really will be sorry to see him gone.

    Grade. C-

    The one thing I could not understand is why a few people in this forum wanted kenny to play more towards the end of the season at the expense of AJ. The reason I did not understand it is because so many were complaining about him in November and December
    I give Kenny a solid C







    Ron Artest. Had an outstanding season. Marred only by a couple of incidents. One when Rick pulled him for going his own way on offense & a couple of times that I questioned whether or not his headaches weren't really a coverup for something else. But neither take away from what was an all-star D.P.O.Y. season. He is one of very few Pacers who can create his own shot & he is obviousley the best defender in the league. His post season was good vs. Boston & outstanding vs. Miami. His play vs. the Pistons was mixed but still solid. Unfortunatley he ended the season on a sour note & I don't mean the flagrant foul. He went off the farm again on offense. But for the sake of grading for the hole year that really was just a pimple on the *** of the season. So for my money Ron had a solid season

    Grade. A

    I hope we don't start taking his defense, his rebounding (which was excellent against the Pistons), his effort, his intensity, and his attitude for granted. I heard and read many people who suggested that Ron should be taken out of games against the Pistons because his offense was hurting us. That concerned me because that showed me that those people are taking the other things in Ron's game for granted.

    Does Ron break offensive plays? Yes. Does Ron need to play within the offense more? Yes. But his offense has improved so much in two years, who knows what it will be like next season.

    Grade A



    Jon Bender. Injury's again. It would be easy to give him an incomplete but to me that would just be giving him a pass for once again not having a complete season. I think Jon has a problem playing unless he is at 100%. But let's look at what he did give us. For the first time I could see occasions where he didn't look like he had no clue as to what to do. He did make more of an effort this season to go down low & play some. However, when the pressure was on in the Miami & Detroit series Jon reverted to his old ways. He is getting stronger, but in all honesty how much more of this are we going to have to take. What is it that people really expect of the guy? 20 & 10? I don't see how you can have two guys doing that. I digress. Back to the season in review. I saw some growth but not nearly enough.

    Grade C+


    As Rick Carlisle said yesterday, there were times when Bender's offensive displays were breathtaking, as were a few of his shotblocking episodes. I know many of you are tired of hearing it, but I would not trade Bender, not now (unless he trade value is a lot higher than I think). He has unusual talent, and also as Rick said he can do things no one else on the team can do. Some of you question his injuries. Well his knee injury if you remember turned out to be worse than first thought.

    Grade B




    Austin Croshere. This could have been his year. This could have been the year that he made a bigger role for himself. But he didn't do it. He has got to work on consistancy. The guy comes in & does one of two things. He is either outstanding & leaves the home town fans standing and cheering or he is just useless. He never hurts you on the floor with stupid mistakes but sometimes just wondering around the perimeter is harmfull in itself. If Al or Jon or Ron are moved & we don't get a new center I do look for Austin to have a bigger role next season on the team. He did spread the floor on offense in the playoffs for us so that was helpfull & he is definately an underrated rebounder.

    Grade C+

    I thought Cro had a good year. For three years I put forth the idea that Croshere needs a structured offensive and defensive system in order to play well, and I think this season showed that to be true. He is not a freelance player. I saw significant improvements defensively

    Grade B



    Jeff Foster. Made huge huge strides this season. I had written him off to being a scrub forever & he made me eat my words. Now if only he could develop any form of offense, it's on him to do it in the off-season. But as to last season we won 61 games because he wasn't the void in the middle he could have been. He even began to guard the bigger players better as the year went on & he even rebounded the tough boards that I used to gripe about him not getting. Great year for Jeff.

    Grade A

    There are certain guys I really love to watch play basketball and Jeff is one of them. I love the way he plays. His performance against the Heat in game #5 was great to see, he deserved all the accolades, and the Foster chanting. As we all know Jeff needs to to develope a 12-15 face up jumper, if he does that will enable him to dribble drive, which he is very good at.

    But I don't care if Jeff shoots 10,000, fifteen ft jumper every day this summer, that will be a waste of time, unless Jeff is encouraged by the coaching staff and teammates to shoot in the games. He needs to start shooting in games from preseason game #1, and carry that through in every game he plays. If he has a game where he shoots 0-10, he needs to shoot 10 more times the next game, that is the only way he is going to improve.

    Grade A




    Al Harrington. The Rodney Dangerfield of the Indiana Pacers. He gets no respect. The fact that everybody is willing to give this guy away & keep a player who for five years has yet to prove he can play in more than 30 games flabergast me. Jon bruises his shoulder & goes on the I.R.L. Al hurts his knee, chest & hip & plays on. But does anybody care? Could easily have been the 6th man of the year & probably lost it because of name value. Al could easily be a 16 & 8 player as a starter somewhere, including here. I am not convinced that Al won't still be here next year but that has nothing to do with the grade for last year. I think he could have been a little more consistant but all things considered I thought he had a great year.

    Grade A-

    Peck, I was one of those frustrated by Al's play in the playoffs. Not that he was terible, he played well, he played hard. But I consider him the third best player on the team, so I expected more from him. Very few games in the playoffs did he deserve to be on the floor at crunch time.

    B




    Anthony Johnson. Role player. I mean that as a compliment. He knows his role & does not try to go beyond it. He is a true leader on the bench & the value of that alone is outstanding. I would really really like to see him work on his ball handling ability so that every team in the entire N.B.A. wouldn't try to half court trap him. But his shooting was solid & his defense was great. One of the better backup p.g.'s in the N.B.A. if you ask me.

    Grade B

    I became very frustrated defending AJ this season. He vindicated himself with his play in the Pistons series. I think he is the perfect backup point guard. not the best backup point in the whole league. He is great on the bench, he is a leader, he is always ready. If he is the pacers backup point guard for the next 6 years, I'll be happy. I love his physical and mental toughness

    Grade B





    Fred Jones. Dunking it on Ben Wallace alone almost got an A+ from me but instead I'll just offer him a . The guy made real strides this season & made huge strides (IMO) during the playoffs. Unlike Bender when his shoulder was injured he soldiered on. Ron is already a great defender at the two spot & he guarded Hamilton as well as Ron did. His jumper got more consistant as the season progressed. Just keep on keeping on in the off-season & I wouldn't be offended to see a backcourt of Tinsely & Jones.

    Grade B

    Freddie. His improvement in the shooting department surprised me. We know his defense is excellent, his passing is good, he can create off the dribble for himself or a teammate. I really like how is plays better in the more important games, his mental toughness is great, he has a certain confidence, and certain arrogance that is nice to see. I give Rick I ton of credit for sticking with him in Novemeber, December and January, many coaches would notm have, but Rick's confidence in him paid huge dividends late in the season

    B



    Reggie Miller. If he were any other player on any other team giving him anything higher than a D would not even be considered. A two guard who can only give you 10 ppg at 6 million a season is not what I consider a good thing. But this is Indiana & he is Reggie. He is getting better at being a leader vocally. He can still play. He can still play at a high level, just not as often. This was the first year though that I really have seen Reggie be such a weak link on the defensive side & that may just simply be age catching up to him. He had a good passing season & his shooting % was good. Like Croshere he does not do anything stupid to hurt you. He did hit some big shots this season. I do think the theory of him being a decoy is over used & sometimes borders on hyperboyle, but at the end of a game there is still no doubt the man can hit his shot.

    Grade C+

    I think the Pacers are a better team with Reggie on the floor, the offense runs better the spacing is better.

    Jermaine O'Neal. 3rd in line for M.V.P. says it all IMO. He did everything that we asked of him & he even sometimes gave us more. It's no seceret that I was not a big fan of his & my son keeps telling me that I will never actually accept him because he was traded for my favorite player & to some extent that may be true. But to me this guy has made a 100% improvement in attitude & floor demenor. When I called him a warrior during the Pistons series that is as high a praise as I can give to a big man. He fought the Pistons, all by himself on many occasions. I ask nothing more of the man other than to heal up & bring it strong next season.

    Grade A+

    Not much to say about J.O. He is the face of this franchise and there is no one I would rather have be the face. [size=9:aaa916909a]Well maybe TD or KG[/size]

    Grade A



    Jamaal Tinsely. Never pouted or let his head hang when he was getting screwed at the beginning of the season. I don't know that sitting made him a better player. I can't say that it did or didn't for sure. All I know is that Jamaal is the engine that maker our car drive. When he is not in the game our offense is virtually non-existant & our guard production is almost nil. He still needs to work on lateral speed & work on his shot a little but other than that I was pretty pleased with J.T.

    Grade A-

    First thing I noticed this season he was actually in a defensive stance. Last year at this time i was screaming that he was not good enough. Well I think he is now

  6. #6
    LAPacer
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    Default Re: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    How do you do the grade. Is it an A if they played to expectation, or an A if they are in the top 10% of the NBA by their position? Is the grading expectation or peer performance based?

  7. #7
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    How do you do the grade. Is it an A if they played to expectation, or an A if they are in the top 10% of the NBA by their position? Is the grading expectation or peer performance based?
    I based mine on expectations & relative abilities.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  8. #8
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    Primoz Brezec. Waste of roster space. Anybody who actually beleives this guy will ever be anything more than the 12, 13, 14 or 15th man on an N.B.A. roster is just kidding themselves. He is virtually the same player he was when we drafted him & on a team that had a shortage of real backup big men the fact that he couldn't get off of the I.R.L. should speak volumes.
    I'm not buying this, Peck. Primoz looked great in the preseason and got put on ice after that. The "shortage of real backup big men" isn't fair. We didn't have a shortage of backup big men, we had too many backup big men that weren't that good. Carlisle's loosened up a lot since Detroit, but he's not going to play Primoz in front of Croshere and Pollard. I mean, if both of them got DNP-CDs this year, where do you expect Primoz to find minutes?

    I like the kid. He'll be solid for us.
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  9. #9
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    Primoz Brezec. Waste of roster space. Anybody who actually beleives this guy will ever be anything more than the 12, 13, 14 or 15th man on an N.B.A. roster is just kidding themselves. He is virtually the same player he was when we drafted him & on a team that had a shortage of real backup big men the fact that he couldn't get off of the I.R.L. should speak volumes.
    I'm not buying this, Peck. Primoz looked great in the preseason and got put on ice after that. The "shortage of real backup big men" isn't fair. We didn't have a shortage of backup big men, we had too many backup big men that weren't that good. Carlisle's loosened up a lot since Detroit, but he's not going to play Primoz in front of Croshere and Pollard. I mean, if both of them got DNP-CDs this year, where do you expect Primoz to find minutes?

    I like the kid. He'll be solid for us.
    I'm not sure I follow the logic.

    We had to many backup big men that weren't that good so Primoz couldn't play?

    Um, correct me if my logic is flawed but if Primoz was any good at all wouldn't he be in front of two players that weren't that good?

    I watched him in pre-season as well & I'm certain that he will one day be tearing up the Euro league. To his credit though he seems a little more physical than most Euro's but if we make a move to bring in another player in the middle I don't see how he would ever even make the floor.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  10. #10
    Steveman
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    Default Re: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    I remember playing trumpet in the school band many, many years ago. I got straight A's in music all year long, however, when I couldn't make the bands final appearence of the season they gave me a failing grade, F.

    Ron Artest?

  11. #11
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    I remember playing trumpet in the school band many, many years ago. I got straight A's in music all year long, however, when I couldn't make the bands final appearence of the season they gave me a failing grade, F.

    Ron Artest?
    Let's not forget that Ron also had 2 series prior to the Detroit one where he played huge roles .

  12. #12

    Default Re: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    I like Primoz too. I think another post scorer to take some load off Jermaine would be a very nice thing. Don't know if he can do it, but lets find out THIS time.
    Heck, LAST year Isiah was going to start him after the all star break (?), but then he got hurt.
    Yeah, if you've ever seen Primoz get put into the game, the crowd goes nuts. He's a fan favorite, whether you like it or not.

  13. #13
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    I like Primoz too. I think another post scorer to take some load off Jermaine would be a very nice thing. Don't know if he can do it, but lets find out THIS time.
    Heck, LAST year Isiah was going to start him after the all star break (?), but then he got hurt.
    Yeah, if you've ever seen Primoz get put into the game, the crowd goes nuts. He's a fan favorite, whether you like it or not.
    That's only because he is our equivalent to Darko.

  14. #14
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ok, let's grade this thing.....

    I'm not sure I follow the logic.

    We had to many backup big men that weren't that good so Primoz couldn't play?

    Um, correct me if my logic is flawed but if Primoz was any good at all wouldn't he be in front of two players that weren't that good?

    I watched him in pre-season as well & I'm certain that he will one day be tearing up the Euro league. To his credit though he seems a little more physical than most Euro's but if we make a move to bring in another player in the middle I don't see how he would ever even make the floor.
    I guess that's fair. Le me restate.

    While Carlisle has obviously loosened up quite a bit from his days in detroit (see also Kstat's many rants on Rick not playing T.Prince), he hasn't gone so far as to put Croshere or Pollard on the IL with a fake injury over Primoz.

    While Pollard was terrible this year, there seemed to be a collective belief that he would eventually step up and prove his worth. Same with Croshere early in the year. Primoz didn't just have to be better than Pollard or Croshere, he had to be LOTS better (see also T. Prince).

    Brewer gets poor marks for the last offseason (didn't play in summer league, etc), while Brezec and Jones get good ones. For the season, though, I'd give J.Jones, P.Brezec, and J.Brewer all incompletes. Can't see that it's fair to do otherwise.
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    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

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