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Thread: Vote of confidence: The Simons

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Uncle Buck

    I have to disagree with you on one point.

    If the Simon's sell the team I'm pretty sure they will make sure it remains in Indy.

    I don't see the Simon's stabbing this city in the back like that. Not after all they have done for Indy.

    I'll stick my answer to Peck's question too.

    I don't think the Simons have it in them to turn this thing around. Its not in their MO. They would have to take some bold steps & let some people go. Walsh might go on his own, Bird will have to be pushed & I don't see any of the Simon's doing that.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
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    Uncle Buck

    I have to disagree with you on one point.

    If the Simon's sell the team I'm pretty sure they will make sure it remains in Indy.

    I don't see the Simon's stabbing this city in the back like that. Not after all they have done for Indy.

    I'll stick my answer to Peck's question too.

    I don't think the Simons have it in them to turn this thing around. Its not in their MO. They would have to take some bold steps & let some people go. Walsh might go on his own, Bird will have to be pushed & I don't see any of the Simon's doing that.

    But what if the Pacers stay in the Simon family and things continue like they are right now - I believe the younger Simons will look to sell the team and in that scenerio, it is more likely than not for the Pacers to leave Indianapolis. My guess is in about 3 years Seattle will make a very hard push for a team.

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    It pains me to say it but I agree with UB about what might happen when the younger Simons take over the team.

    I'd like to have confidence in Mel and Herb, but IMO they need to get rid of Larry and Donnie. I just don't think they'll have the balls to do it.

  4. #29

    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    I agree with what ABA is saying.

    As far as the whole Brad thing really can't blame them for not wanting to pay the luxury tax. The Pacers already had enough money tied up into players and considering the fact that we won 61 games with Jeff Foster as our center and damn near made the finals I really don't think that Brad was worth the money for the Pacers.

    Anyways lets face it this is probably the lowest point in the franchise history since the Simions became owners. I don't think they have ever had to deal with a situation this badly before. As ABA pointed out it's really the players fault.

    As far as the Simions getting rid of Larry/Donnie I don't think so. Especially Donnie. All the success Donnie has had and then you fire him now? Who the hell is going to want to work for the Pacers if they did that? They are running a business here and they don't want a reputation of treating employees badly.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    It strikes me that the Simons have been fairly hands off. However, they've proven to be very astute businessmen and have continued to see their company prosper despite a lot of change in the retail industry. That gives me confidence that they certainly have the capability to turn things around.

  6. #31
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Yeah. I want them to stay in possession of the team. They are good guys. They are civic minded. And they've got more tin than anybody else in Indianapolis, don't they?

    The Simons have done what owners ought to do: put somebody they trust in charge, give them the keys and stand back. They've shown in the past that they are willing to spend money. Two seasons ago, the Pacers had the 4th or 5th highest payroll in the NBA.

    Their fault is they've been too patient, too trusting for the past couple of years. I think they need to appoint some new top management and crack the whip a little. I say "Yes" because I believe they are capable of doing that effectively and that they will do it as soon as Donnie steps down.
    This is how I feel, though I honestly think with both the Simons and Donnie that the last few years just got out of hand out of nowhere. Prior to 11/19 TPTB were brilliant. Best regular season ever, nearly home court for the Finals, all the core guys locked up long term, decent payroll but not breaking their backs to the point of having to punt...heck, they were putting a beating on the Pistons until less than two minutes left in the Palace and then....

    Since then, despite what a lot of you guys say about "it was obvious", not one f-bomb thing from then on was obvious. Most of the stuff they've had to respond to was unprecedented, they couldn't deal with the brawl thing the way Cuban had, or Jerry West once did or any other GM/Owner. Brand new problems were coming at them left and right.

    Tins had no history of injury till they were in it. Year 1 you think it's a fluke. Year two and it's bad luck. Then you start to have concerns, but then every other GM/Owner has the same thoughts you do. The same with JO. The same with Jackson and Ron as well. I didn't hear one Pacers fan saying "just wait to Tins/Jackson are at a club brawl, it's bound to happen". People like to align with that thinking now, but it's 100% 20/20.

    Even Ron's trade request was a shocker, even if his method was becoming familiar. Fans LOVED him at FanJam that year, loved him. They weren't muttering "get him out before he wants a trade". And even then, this wasn't more flagrants, or a police issue or any type of violence. It was actually pretty mundane business posturing IMO.

    So how does an owner deal with that before it happens?

    My point is that a lot of this stuff has built slowly. It's not some massive one time, gotta respond thing, it's death by pinching. I think this year was the final straw, and frankly they were already responding BY YOUR REQUESTS last year.

    The reason they have a horrible payroll situation and no playoff hopes is very specifically tied to that GS trade, which in part was first started by going after Harrington to help improve the "good guy" team image. The Al flopped (which some did see coming), so they panicked and tried to appease fans a 2nd time with the GS deal.

    So IMO the Simons COULD turn this around with Donnie, if only they would stop listening to the fans and just return to a normal steady adjustment program instead of 2nd guessing themselves and wondering how they couldn't see this coming.

    If they have a fault it's that the 3 of them appear to have a rather poor "handoff" plan at both GM and ownership. This rather weak plan is unfortunately coinciding with a point when the team most needs clear, singular, EXPERIENCED vision.


    PS -
    You know for all you "ticking time bomb" types, what exactly has Jackson done since hitting GS? Still waiting on him to ruin that franchise with his awful chemistry problems and poor decisions. Just give it a few seasons, he's not as efficient as Murphleavy.

    Fans, what team can't they run perfectly?



    Team moving - I hate to say it but reading Bill Simmons stuff on the Seattle situation and the emails he's getting its both scary and depressing to think about how ugly the currently unthinkable could get.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-04-2008 at 06:09 PM.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    For all the guys on here in love with Simons but fear the team will move.

    Why do you think the Simon's would sell, or give up control of the team, if it ment they would move?

    I doubt the Simon's would agree to step down or sell the team unless they were 100% certain the Pacers would remain in Indy.

    I have that much faith in them being stand up guys, why don't the rest of you feel that?

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    I vote yes! I believe the Simons and management will get this thing turned around. I think the one thing that a lot of you are overlooking is that it will take a lot time. None of this is going to be overnight, no matter how much the fans whine and complain.
    Last edited by Roaming Gnome; 03-04-2008 at 09:32 PM.
    ...Still "flying casual"
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  9. #34
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
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    For all the guys on here in love with Simons but fear the team will move.

    Why do you think the Simon's would sell, or give up control of the team, if it ment they would move?

    I doubt the Simon's would agree to step down or sell the team unless they were 100% certain the Pacers would remain in Indy.

    I have that much faith in them being stand up guys, why don't the rest of you feel that?
    My fear, as I said earlier, is if they think the people they hired are doing the best job possible and the fans are still jumping off the bridge, then the logical step they would take is to say that Indy doesn't care (or support) the Pacers any longer. Therefore, it isn't a big leap to see them think that selling and/or moving the team would be in their best interests... especially if they think Indy doesn't care about the Pacers any longer.

    IMHO it would be a terrible misjudgement, but if they are sticking with this management team and management style, then obviously they aren't above a misjudgement or two.

    I'd assume that is the basic sentiment from the fans that love the Simons but fear they'd move/sell the team. They might disagree with my saying they are being loyal to mangement to a fault... But I can't imagine they disagree with my assessment that the Simons could ultimately decide Indy doesn't care about the Pacers anymore, as the franchise is bleeds red, and so the two things add up to a reason to move on.

    -Bball
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  10. #35
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by grace View Post
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    It pains me to say it but I agree with UB about what might happen when the younger Simons take over the team.

    I'd like to have confidence in Mel and Herb, but IMO they need to get rid of Larry and Donnie. I just don't think they'll have the balls to do it.
    The fact that they want Donnie to stay shows that they disagree with your opinion.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    The fact that they want Donnie to stay shows that they disagree with your opinion.
    Doesn't mean I'm wrong.

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    IMHO it would be a terrible misjudgement, but if they are sticking with this management team and management style, then obviously they aren't above a misjudgement or two.
    Has your opinion made you a billionaire yet? How about millionaire? The Simon's are super rich, and they didn't get there without knowing how to pick managers. Add to that the manager they picked is universally respected around the NBA as one of the best, and it leads me to the conclusion they know what they are doing.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Has your opinion made you a billionaire yet? How about millionaire? The Simon's are super rich, and they didn't get there without knowing how to pick managers. Add to that the manager they picked is universally respected around the NBA as one of the best, and it leads me to the conclusion they know what they are doing.
    I like Grace's answer so I'm using it too. My opinion might not have earned me a billion or even a million... but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

    -Bball
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  14. #39
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by grace View Post
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    Doesn't mean I'm wrong.
    No, just that you probably are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I like Grace's answer so I'm using it too. My opinion might not have earned me a billion or even a million... but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

    -Bball
    Same answer I gave Grace, just that you probably are.

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
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    For all the guys on here in love with Simons but fear the team will move.

    Why do you think the Simon's would sell, or give up control of the team, if it ment they would move?

    I doubt the Simon's would agree to step down or sell the team unless they were 100% certain the Pacers would remain in Indy.

    I have that much faith in them being stand up guys, why don't the rest of you feel that?
    1) If the fan base turns on them they might decide they've done their bit and move on.

    2) They might have to give up control to the heirs, which would change the entire situation.

    3) Noticed what's happening to the real estate market in the last 8 months? I'm just sayin'...
    BillS

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  16. #41
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Has your opinion made you a billionaire yet? How about millionaire? The Simon's are super rich, and they didn't get there without knowing how to pick managers. Add to that the manager they picked is universally respected around the NBA as one of the best, and it leads me to the conclusion they know what they are doing.
    Starbucks, Sonics, gone.


    I think the Simons would handle this much better, but if not they wouldn't be the first rich, smart, homer-centric owner to bail out to a new owner ready to move the team, even if the new owner didn't admit that at first.

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    No, just that you probably are.



    Same answer I gave Grace, just that you probably are.
    Dude, what is bothering you? It has to be more than the state of a basketball team.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by grace View Post
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    Dude, what is bothering you? It has to be more than the state of a basketball team.
    Left field.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Left field.
    The last place I would ever be is in LEFT field. As for the rest, forget it.

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I like Grace's answer so I'm using it too. My opinion might not have earned me a billion or even a million... but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

    -Bball
    And.......If you have a billion dollars you can afford to be wrong.

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
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    For all the guys on here in love with Simons but fear the team will move.

    Why do you think the Simon's would sell, or give up control of the team, if it ment they would move?

    I don't intend to be so blunt or cruel about it, but when Mel and Herb are either dead or mentally incapable of knowing what is going on - the younger generation of Simons will be in control and if the team is losing 15 million per season, - I think they will look to sell the team which means it will likely move out of Indy

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    the younger generation of Simons will be in control and if the team is losing 15 million per season, - I think they will look to sell the team which means it will likely move out of Indy
    Exactly. Just because Herb and Mel are civic minded you can't assume their children are too.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Well, heck, I guess I have to go get rich now. I was planning on coasting a few more years.

    What's it gonna take to put me behind the wheel of that team? And don't try to see me the Conseco undercoating and rustproofing or the extended warranty...well maybe one on Tinsley and JO.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Do Herb & Mel have to turn the team over to David?

    Couldn't they say......... Dave, you get the team but you have to sign an agreement that the team stays here.

    You don't sign, we give the team to Bball!

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: The Simons

    Yes they can. They will find a competent front office person to lead the Pacers out of the mess they are in. The Simons won't do it themselves - it's not their style. They will get good basketball people in place and let them do their job. The bigger question is - can the current front office get us out of this mess or is a little housecleaning needed? I say yes.
    "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
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