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Thread: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

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    Default Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    Mike Dunleavy deserves a lot of praise for his play this year, IMO. He has done an outstanding job. I think his play alone makes that Golden State trade fair for us.

    I can't complain about anything Mike has done this year. He has just flat out had a great year for the Pacers.

    Here is what I can't figure out.

    Where does Mike fit in with the Pacers future plans?

    Half of me says trade him now. Go with the younger cheaper mold.

    The other half says keep him. He is a good player and will help the team win sooner rather than later.

    Do you see Mike Dunleavy as an Indiana Pacer for a while?

    I love how Mike plays the game. He is a different player.

    I have two concerns though with Mike.

    - How good is he?
    His five years in Golden State he was average for the most part. Nothing really special though and not worth his salary. Then last season after the trade he really didn't show much with Indiana however maybe it's a little bit unfair to judge that time since it was a mid season trade.

    Then finally this year under Jim Mike is having by far the best season of his career. He is averaging a career high in points yes but the thing that impresses me the most is he is shooting so well. 47% from the field, 38% three point shooter, 84% from the foul line, all are career highs for him.

    What i'm wondering is can Dunleavy keep up that type of production no matter who the coach is?

    - Are him and Danny a good fit?
    Neither of these two are power forwards nor should they be playing that spot.

    Both are really small forwards, but they can play some guard. Can these two be a winning team's starting shooting guard/small forward?

    On offense I don't really see a problem. On defense, I do.

    Neither is a defensive stopper. Can Danny be? Maybe so, but will he? Can he guard the guards in the league night in and night out? I think on every winning team you will find a defensive stopper somewhere and I guess if Dunleavy and Danny are gonna be on the same team that player is gonna be a big man for us.

    So, where do you see Dunleavy in the Pacers future? You think he is a keeper?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    One more thing i'm wondering about...the draft. How will this affect Dunleavy's future?

    There could be some real good guards coming out and with the Pacers likely having a lottery pick they could be taking one. You have Mayo, Gordon, Bayless, so what if the Pacers end up taking one of them?

  3. #3
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie View Post
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    I think his play alone makes that Golden State trade fair for us.
    Let's not get too high. GS would have traded us Dun for Jack straight up. Would have been a good trade for both teams.

    Do you see Mike Dunleavy as an Indiana Pacer for a while?
    Oh yeah. No way Bird trades him, under any circumstance. With Shawne out of the "core," it's a little bit less of a problem in the near term. But I still think one of them needs to go eventually, and I'd rather it be Mike.

    Then finally this year under Jim Mike is having by far the best season of his career. He is averaging a career high in points yes but the thing that impresses me the most is he is shooting so well. 47% from the field, 38% three point shooter, 84% from the foul line, all are career highs for him.
    You know who else had a career year under Jim? Antoine Walker. I like Mike a ton better as a person, and I think he has the discipline to avoid Twon's "ample booty," but I'm not convinced he'll carry this production through to the end of the season, let alone to another coach.

    - Are him and Danny a good fit? Can these two be a winning team's starting shooting guard/small forward?
    MAYBE with a lockdown defender at PG, another as a bench guy backing up both Danny and Dun, and a block-happy frontcourt. But other than that, I'd say no.
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    I get the feeling that GMs will still think that Dunleavy's contract is too much to absorb. It can even be argued that his increased Production is a result of the system that we run and that his Production may not be has high if he were in a different system.

    I have ZERO problem keeping him......whenever I talk about the future core of the Pacers....I always consider Dunleavy to be part of that core. I don't care that he is earning 8 to 10 mil per season until the 2010-2011 season...he's worth it right now.
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I get the feeling that GMs will still think that Dunleavy's contract is too much to absorb. It can even be argued that his increased Production is a result of the system that we run and that his Production may not be has high if he were in a different system.

    I have ZERO problem keeping him......whenever I talk about the future core of the Pacers....I always consider Dunleavy to be part of that core. I don't care that he is earning 8 to 10 mil per season until the 2010-2011 season...he's worth it right now.
    Dunleavy has had a very good year and deserves praise for it and I think most GMs like Dunleavy, but this is the age of the luxury tax we're talking about.

    And in the age of the luxury tax, most team are going to consider Dunleavy a luxury item. He'd be a GREAT fit on a good number of teams, but I don't know if they'd be willing to pay for him.

    I think he'd work tremendously for the Spurs, for instance, but are they willing to add him to the payroll with Ginobili, Duncan and Parker already making big $$? That would all be up to the owner and if he's willing to open up the pocketbook. And that's to say nothing for the fact that they can't really offer anything good in return.

    He's probably going to stay a Pacer for the forseeable future.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    He's probably going to stay a Pacer for the forseeable future.
    I agree, and I could see him turning into a super sub like John Havlicek.

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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    I hope you're either kidding or black-out drunk, Will.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    I hope you're either kidding or black-out drunk, Will.
    All I meant by that is he could be a good sixth man who accepts the roll like Havlicek did. No way do I mean he would be a Havlicek quality sixth man. Most players today have in their head they have to start, whereas Dun I think would accept ther roll.

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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    The greatest compliment I can give Mike Dunleavy is that the team plays better when he's on the court. I don't care if he is hitting his shots or not, I don't care if his one-on-one defense is bad, I don't care what his individual stats are - the pacers play better when he is in the game. He makes things work.

    It is often most noticeable when he goes out of the game - the ball movement slows down, the team defense suffers, the play is just much more disjointed.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    I think the thing Dunleavy brings to the team is his character. Right now I don't see how you could think about trading him until other matters are resolved.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    ^^^^^ Yes.

    The Pacers need to improve in 2 areas. Basketball talent and character. Dunleavy is strong in both.
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    ^^^^^ Yes.

    The Pacers need to improve in 2 areas. Basketball talent and character. Dunleavy is strong in both.
    Completely agree.

    But I still don't think Mike/Granger is a long-term solution at the 2/3.
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    I think Granger and Dunleavy can play side by side, but you have to have a PG who can guard his position with them.

    They can hold there own I think against many 2/3s in the league, but if you have a PG who is getting killed defensively you can't ask them to guard two positions out of their norm.

    I think this the main reason the Pacers live and die by the gimmicky pseudo trap to compensate for this.

    Just as a side note, Tinsley can't and won't guard his counterpart. (I just threw this in here, but I get a feeling Tinsely may have played his last game as a Pacer, I could be woefully wrong, of course.)

    I really like Deiner and at least his really good for this offense, but he will obviously struggle against the quick point guards (see TJ Ford). So then you have to play Rush on Ford.

    All I'm saying is you can play Granger and Dun out of position slightly you just have to have the other 3 guys on the court be able to take care of their counterpart too. Thats a flaw with this team and if you could get a Rajon Rondo type in this next draft it would be pretty big. The Flip Murray experiment will be interesting to see if he can help in this capacity (I know he's not a PG offensively, but he has to guard the PG defensively)

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I think Granger and Dunleavy can play side by side, but you have to have a PG who can guard his position with them.

    They can hold there own I think against many 2/3s in the league, but if you have a PG who is getting killed defensively you can't ask them to guard two positions out of their norm.

    I really like Deiner and at least his really good for this offense, but he will obviously struggle against the quick point guards (see TJ Ford). So then you have to play Rush on Ford.

    All I'm saying is you can play Granger and Dun out of position slightly you just have to have the other 3 guys on the court be able to take care of their counterpart too. Thats a flaw with this team and if you could get a Rajon Rondo type in this next draft it would be pretty big. The Flip Murray experiment will be interesting to see if he can help in this capacity (I know he's not a PG offensively, but he has to guard the PG defensively)

    I agree with you 100% with everything. I like Diener also. The kid is good

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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    I am really enjoying watching Dun, Granger, Rush and TD all play. Murphy has shown some things recently that are quite encouraginng, as well. If Flip can make some consistant contributions, then that is a group that I would like to watch play together for awhile. You can add Foster to that, also. Graham? Well, at this point, who really knows? I'm hopeful, though.

    I think if that group can maintain their play, it opens up some possibilites for grouping otherr players together in trades for players (expiring or not) and draft picks.

    If I'm TPTB, that is how I would look to build. There are enough players in that mix with reasonable contracts to keep you out of LT trouble

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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    He better fit in at least for awhile. I just bought his jersey.

    On a basketball related note, I really like Dun. It pains me to like him because he's a Dukey, but I love the fire/attitude he brings to the team. Every game he appears to come up injured and every game he "battles" through it. I know a lot of people don't think Dun/DG make a solid 2/3 combo, but I really think that could work. They both have the potential to be 20 pt scorers and either one could go for 30 on any given night. I will definitely take that in the long run.

    I know we are getting overly excited about winning back to back games, but honestly how great was it for those at the game last night to hear, "Pacers win, Pacers win." Those are some of my favorite words, I'll be real honest.
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    The only setback with having Danny and Mike as your 2/3 punch is on the defensive side. Clearly on offense it might be effective as both guys can hit it on a pick and pop or an occasional drive to the hoop or even create for others.

    but on the defensive side, i think neither is a good defender right now. I see Danny as the one becoming a good defender but from what i'm seeing, it might be 2 seasons away.
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    This is an interesting question. These two guys are clearly our best players right now. There are a number of issues to consider.

    Can they be the 2/3 combo on a winning team? I think so. To make it work, however, we need to upgrade our defense at a couple of positions. First we'd have to get a good defensive PG. If we get a PG who can curtail penetration, then Dun can guard guys like Anthony Parker, Carlos Delfino, Wally Sczerbiak, etc. quite adequately. This PG doesn't even have to be great at running the offense because Dunleavy initiates the offense a lot of the time anyway.

    The second thing we need is a shot-blocking big man. We can't stop all penetration, so we need someone who can deter it a bit.

    Anyway, I think it can work as a 2/3 combo. As a 3/4 combo, I don't think so.
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    You can totally ignore Mike and Danny being on the floor.

    Whether on the floor or not, the Pacers #1 need is a PG capable of guarding the opposing PG. Stop entry passes and dribble penetration and our defense improves significantly.

    Speaking as a fundamentalist regarding Mike, I would say that he knows more about fundamentals and how the game should be played than the rest of the team combined.

    Despite his large contract, I don't believe we can affort to trade away that kind on knowledge, especially with the abilities that he has to go along with it.

    I just wish that he would be more outspoken and take on more of a leadership role.

    I also believe Will got it right. A player in Mike's mold makes an ideal 6th man. And, if you don't have better position players to start, he cerainly does not hurt you by being in your starting lineup.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    Duns contract is no longer bad, in fact if he keeps playing like he has I would consider it a good deal. He has proven himself worthy of the No.3 pick. Murphy may be a little overpaid but now he is starting to become worthy. Our problem with overpaid people is No. 7. Diener had 4 steals yesterday so I wouldn't exactly say he is a bad defender. His leadership at PG off sets his lack of keeping up with CP3 and Iverson, not too many over time have slowed those guys. Diener is so much better than Tinsley, I hope Tinjury never suits up for us again.
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  21. #21
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Speaking as a fundamentalist regarding Mike, I would say that he knows more about fundamentals and how the game should be played than the rest of the team combined.
    Ehh. I might believe you, if I hadn't seen him lose so many balls on behind-the-backs.
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    I'm sorry guys, but Mike rubs me the wrong way.
    I get so frustrated watching him make that obligatory one awesome move to the basket when he shows up to play.
    ..I mean, his best games have come against teams that have worse records than we do, and he has rarely ever shown flashes against a really good team.

    Also there is always talk about Mike and his vaunted fundamentals, IMO Mike is an extremely athletic slasher. He's good with both hands,he has the ability to get to the basket anytime he chooses, and he's got a good midrange game. Plain and simple, IMO he plays on instinct. He can create shots through his ballhandling and passing ability. He's not a bad team defender when he wants to be, and he is willing to try to draw the foul. I think he is a talented athletic player that wants the fans, and dad to think he's fundamental. I mean, hell I've seen him do that switch hands in the air move 3x this season.


    He also needs top get to the line more. He's gone to the basket more in the last three game, and it has paid dividends for him. However unless he develops a more consistent jumper he is getting to old to do us much good.

    I do, however, think he is part of our future because unless someone is looking for an athletic, tentative, three, he is priced out for to many teams to consider.
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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The greatest compliment I can give Mike Dunleavy is that the team plays better when he's on the court. I don't care if he is hitting his shots or not, I don't care if his one-on-one defense is bad, I don't care what his individual stats are - the pacers play better when he is in the game. He makes things work.

    It is often most noticeable when he goes out of the game - the ball movement slows down, the team defense suffers, the play is just much more disjointed.
    That's probably because he's the only one who really understands the system - and he makes sure other players follow it when he's in there. I wish he'd play more consistent - along with everyone else on the team - but what can you do?

    Diener looks afraid to shoot layups...I wonder why this is?

    "Tinjury" - nice nickname aceace.

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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    You must really hate MD. To the point you are missing where he stands (on this team) relative to your following quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by HOOPFANATIC View Post
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    He also needs top get to the line more. He's gone to the basket more in the last three game, and it has paid dividends for him. However unless he develops a more consistent jumper he is getting to old to do us much good.

    Dun leads the team in free throw attempts (274, with Granger second at 272). He is second in free throws made (with 230 second to Granger's 235).

    Now, it could be argued that 4.6 FTA's a game is not enough, but I would counter it says more about the offensive plan than it does about his capabilities.

    Overall, he is shooting 47.8% from the field, 39.0% on 3-pt attempts.

    By the way, he is only 27. Not exactly an old man.

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    Default Re: Mike Dunleavy, where does he fit in?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The greatest compliment I can give Mike Dunleavy is that the team plays better when he's on the court. I don't care if he is hitting his shots or not, I don't care if his one-on-one defense is bad, I don't care what his individual stats are - the pacers play better when he is in the game. He makes things work.

    It is often most noticeable when he goes out of the game - the ball movement slows down, the team defense suffers, the play is just much more disjointed.
    It's for this reason above all others that I believe Dunleavy will remain a Pacers. It's pretty much the same reason Foster's remained a Pacers for this long: the fundamentals, hard work, and role play, not to mention both are great character guys. Each has come to understand and embrace (Foster to the greater extent) his role with the team. This is way Dunleavy will remain a Pacer. (And I should add Reggie was the same way.)

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