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Thread: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    Ok, this might be tough. But I am going to try and make this as simple as possible.

    Whatever Donnie's role is on the team, do you have faith in him to fix the problem the Pacers are in at present.

    You can use past behavior as an indicator of what you feel like he would do but you can't use past behavior to totally justify your feelings on this.

    Example from each side.

    "Donnie drafted Reggie and had 20 years of great Pacers basketball so I will always give him a pass because he has earned it".

    "Donnie do nothing has never truely done anything worth maintaining his job and he should have been out of here years ago, I don't care if he can or can't get us out of this he needs to be gone.

    Both of the above are not what this vote is about.

    This is purely and simply can Donnie Walsh in his current capacity with the club help bring us out of this?

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    Years ago I was a devout follower of The Donnie, all wise and powerful. Then I saw that Scuzzy Cotton Candy Guy had been rehired. I don't care what Donnie's position is, you let that man back in the building, you've got to go.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    I don't think he's the guy who is going to get us out of this mess.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

  4. #4

    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    What mess? I thought we were doing well...
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    I have to say no because he needs to let Larry have the total control and go off somewhere and fish or do what old retired GM's do. Give larry the rope to hang himself or pull himself out of the **** that has been created.

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    VERY shaky confidence.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    i don't think donnie's heart is in the job any more. after 20 years it's kind of understandable.

    remember those reports linking donnie to the knicks' (expected to be vacant) gm position? now that's the kind of challenge that will get donnie's adrenaline rushing. but rebuilding the pacers, again? why bother when anything less than success will just tarnish his legacy here.

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    Donnie won't pull us out of this mess. I have zero confidence in him going forward. He has done a nice job overall for the organization but it's time for a change.

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    9

    I think the organization just needs some fresh eyes to see the team for what it is and start to make the needed changes. I think Donnie is great but no longer the right man for the Pacers

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    What is Donnie's title? CEO of PSE? Then he has no chance of pulling us out until he hires a Special Assistant to the CEO of PSE whose sole job is to fire Larry Bird, because I don't think DW will do it himself.
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Whatever Donnie's role is on the team, do you have faith in him to fix the problem the Pacers are in at present.
    No. It's my understanding he's only going to be here 4 more months.

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    Every time I read a post about how sad the state of the Pacers is, one name comes to mind.

    Who brought in the players who've created such a bad PR image?

    Who's put the Pacers in a salary cap mess second only to the Knicks?

    Who brought in a coach for a team with a skill set that totally mismatches his coaching style?

    You can substitute Larry Bird for Donnie Walsh in many cases in which case my question becomes, "Who brought in Larry Bird?"

    At one time I thought Donnie Walsh was one of the top 5 GM's in the league. He was able to keep the Pacers very competitive with a good salary structure for a lot of years - and we have to remember that winning a title was never his number 1 goal. The number one goal was always competitiveness on a long-term basis, to the point where he made moves that hurt the chances of winning a title in the short term in return for long-term stability and competitiveness.

    Over the past 3-4 years I believe he's been one of the bottom 5 GM's in the league. Of course you may argue that Bird's been the real GM the last couple of years in which case I refer you to my question above.

    It's been time for Donnie Walsh to be gone for a couple of years. The only GM who can rival him for overstaying is Isiah Thomas.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    VERY shaky confidence.
    http://www.oxymoronlist.com/

    (The closest they have is "diminished confidence", though.)
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  14. #14
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    No.

    Not because of Donnie's ability because I think he's still fine, but because it would require the removal of Bird from the picture and that ain't happenin'.

    DW has made a lot of pretty savvy trades in the last 15 years, so he appears to have the smarts and the relationships to deal. But was it Donnie that really wanted Ike, or Troy, or Dun or whatever that deal was about?

    Seems doubtful to me, and more so given the lack of push to make sure Ike gets PT right now.

    I really think DW has stepped out already, at least effectively as the main guy, and has been maintaining a public sense of involvement to help the transition for Bird. "My bad" is a way to suggest Bird is just fine even if perhaps he's been making more calls than their public comments sometimes suggest.

    There is just too great a string of pretty smart deals for this to suddenly fall off the map, just like I suggested with blaming the sudden losing on Rick last year (turns out it's the roster after all). When someone has a history of mostly doing Det/Herb or Pooh/Jax or Dale/JO or Rose/half-season Jax rental types of deals suddenly jumps the shark pretty badly I think you have to look at what changed.

    When was the last great Pacers trade? Rose/Best for Ron/Miller. I know Ron flipped out, but before then he was DPOY, AS and the two of them clearly improved the team's ability to win and were low salary at the time.

    DW avoided signing Brad to save money, but suddenly he's cool with the cost/length increase of the GS deal? Isn't that odd? The guy let Jax walk on a small amount of salary. The Dale/JO deal apparently started with Dale's salary interests too.


    In short, it's never going to be just DW again and even if it was I suppose there could be an issue with DW that's turned him to muck.

    I think he COULD turn this around but will never get the chance. He'll do that for NY instead, or he'll outright retire.

  15. #15
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    You can substitute Larry Bird for Donnie Walsh in many cases in which case my question becomes, "Who brought in Larry Bird?"
    Valid point, but let's keep in mind that the fans have some say in this as do the Simons. If DW is telling the truth and it was his choice to move Jackson, then you must also believe his reasoning which was that the fans drove him to do it.

    Well there is a reason why Larry is called Boomer for Adults.

    On top of this my big "conspiracy" theory on Bird's hiring is this simple reason:

    DW left Rick hanging and burned that bridge, and DW signed JO. DW wants to undo things and get Rick in and fire Isiah. How can he do that if JO will walk/operation shutdown and Rick isn't feeling it after the last time?

    Larry Bird, buddy of Rick, enemy of Isiah. He's the olive branch to Rick, solved. He's the "out of my hands JO, these guys have history" for the Isiah problem.

    Add to this that the Simons and DW wanted Larry to stay in the first place. It's the perfect solution. I just think like the Ron deal they were dealing with the devil ultimately. The short term solution had a big cost.

    That is on DW...or the Simons if they were pushing that along.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    No, I have no confidence in Donald Walsh and believe he would have been gone a long time ago if Larry Brown hadn't come in and bailed out his @ss.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownseth
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    no
    I agree with this part of your post

  18. #18
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    Donnie Walsh=Larry Bird, so NO.

    We should fire those two guys and hire Lonnie Balsh. I heard he needs a job.

    Better yet, hire The General to take over managing the Pacers. I heard he's available...

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    Hell no!

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    I've debated on whether I need to even post in this thread. I guess I'd be remiss not to...
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In years past this topic would've been extremely polarizing and had the Walsh Warriors sharpening their knives and arguing amongst themselves who would be first to make an apology for Walsh.

    The term "Walsh Warriors" has barely even been used in quite some time.

    Both of those points are worth noting.

    To some degree Larry Bird takes some heat off Donnie Walsh for some people. To another degree, it's become harder and harder to make excuses for Walsh. Especially if you don't think Larry Bird has Walsh locked in a closet and unable to put any stamp on this franchise while Bird runs free.

    No, Walsh can't fix this mess. In fact, the best thing he could do is get away from the team so the repair process can start. He never was the genius GM some gave him credit for. He was a good GM for a team that was already at the bottom and just needed to get on its feet.

    He was good to bring some stability to a franchise with no expectations. But even then, his pondwater slow managing style was causing question marks. He then made a job saving hire in Larry Brown. Once the bar was raised, he was the wrong man for the job because he still had that pondwater slow style. Yes, he could ride the wave and that he did. Doing nothing when you have a pretty good team isn't exactly genius. It's just conservative. Year after year that got clearer. But he never found or learned to go to that next gear.

    He never understood the Indy market and I'd say the older he's gotten the less connected he's become overall. Look at coaching hires like Bird and Isiah. He got lucky with Bird because Bird didn't pretend he was a hands on coach and he surrounded himself with quality assistants.

    He fell on his face with Isiah though. Plus, he misjudged Isiah's popularity in Indiana anyway. So not only was Isiah not a good coach, he wasn't so much looked on as a legend in Indiana basketball but rather was seen as a former Chicago resident who was a famous Detroit Piston. Sure, he was a former IU player with a championship but he left after 2 years. He didn't play Indiana HS ball. And it's not like the Pacers have ever embraced the Hoosier Nation in the first place. So all of a sudden Walsh does? Following a Finals appearance, we make a gimmick hire? ...Of a rookie coach? It was a gimmick hire and it blew up in his face. Inexcusable.

    Walsh's propensity to overpay his own players was always something that was going to bite him eventually. Whether it would be misjudging talent... or character... or an injury bug, it was coming. I have to wonder after 20+ years if he hasn't kept up with modern player evaluation techniques. I wonder how much of the stuff he uses and how much weight he gives it. And I wonder how 'in touch' he really is these days with modern players, the college game, modern fans, etc. so that he can trust his 'gut'.

    And looking back, how many of Walsh's moves have been proactive and how many have been reactive? How often can you go to that well before it's dry?

    He's played the 'small market' card at every turn... meanwhile the team down the street hasn't used that as an excuse and has a SB trophy to show for it. Poeple don't want to hear excuses, they want to see results. The excuses are just hurdles you have to get over.

    I also believe in this era a franchise needs to be dynamic. You can't stand still. You have to energize the fanbase with words and action. The worse you are, the worse it is for you to stand pat, especially in the face of a failing team. For example: If you know you aren't going to play Owens, why not trade him for a player you might use? At least give the fans something to have a little hope in and keep them interested a few extra weeks. If nothing else, at least you tried. Plus, maybe that sends a signal to the rest of the team as well. How disparaging it must be for an Indiana Pacer that really cares about winning and losing to see all the troubles around you these days and to see management ignore problems from prior seasons, thru the summer, and right on up thru the trade deadline.

    It makes me wonder if Walsh has one of those "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" statues in his office?

    We need someone with a dynamic vision that can sell ice to Eskimos. We need someone who sees the importance of marketing this team to a wider area. They are called the Indiana Pacers yet almost ignore anywhere outside of Marion county. And they need to be properly marketed in the first place.

    If the Simons are in a coma, then we need someone who can wake them up and sell them on a vision that they also can get fans and players alike behind.

    That ain't Walsh... and apparently it ain't Bird either...

    Really it boils down to this, not only can Walsh not get us out of this but he owns a huge piece of the blame for why we're here at this point.

    If the Simons think this is how a team should be ran, and continue to have faith in Walsh/Bird, then the only logical conclusion that they can draw from the dwindling fan support is that Indianapolis no longer cares about NBA basketball... and so they'll figure Indianapolis won't care when they move the team (or sell it to someone who will move it).

    I think that would be putting misplaced loyalty into Walsh... And as Adam has said: The Simons' loyalty to Walsh is going to be the ruination of the franchise.


    -Bball
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    I'm patiently waiting for the "Do you have confidence in anyone remotely affiliated with the Indiana Pacers?" thread.

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I've debated on whether I need to even post in this thread. I guess I'd be remiss not to...
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In years past this topic would've been extremely polarizing and had the Walsh Warriors sharpening their knives and arguing amongst themselves who would be first to make an apology for Walsh.

    The term "Walsh Warriors" has barely even been used in quite some time.

    Both of those points are worth noting.

    To some degree Larry Bird takes some heat off Donnie Walsh for some people. To another degree, it's become harder and harder to make excuses for Walsh. Especially if you don't think Larry Bird has Walsh locked in a closet and unable to put any stamp on this franchise while Bird runs free.

    No, Walsh can't fix this mess. In fact, the best thing he could do is get away from the team so the repair process can start. He never was the genius GM some gave him credit for. He was a good GM for a team that was already at the bottom and just needed to get on its feet.

    He was good to bring some stability to a franchise with no expectations. But even then, his pondwater slow managing style was causing question marks. He then made a job saving hire in Larry Brown. Once the bar was raised, he was the wrong man for the job because he still had that pondwater slow style. Yes, he could ride the wave and that he did. Doing nothing when you have a pretty good team isn't exactly genius. It's just conservative. Year after year that got clearer. But he never found or learned to go to that next gear.

    He never understood the Indy market and I'd say the older he's gotten the less connected he's become overall. Look at coaching hires like Bird and Isiah. He got lucky with Bird because Bird didn't pretend he was a hands on coach and he surrounded himself with quality assistants.

    He fell on his face with Isiah though. Plus, he misjudged Isiah's popularity in Indiana anyway. So not only was Isiah not a good coach, he wasn't so much looked on as a legend in Indiana basketball but rather was seen as a former Chicago resident who was a famous Detroit Piston. Sure, he was a former IU player with a championship but he left after 2 years. He didn't play Indiana HS ball. And it's not like the Pacers have ever embraced the Hoosier Nation in the first place. So all of a sudden Walsh does? Following a Finals appearance, we make a gimmick hire? ...Of a rookie coach? It was a gimmick hire and it blew up in his face. Inexcusable.

    Walsh's propensity to overpay his own players was always something that was going to bite him eventually. Whether it would be misjudging talent... or character... or an injury bug, it was coming. I have to wonder after 20+ years if he hasn't kept up with modern player evaluation techniques. I wonder how much of the stuff he uses and how much weight he gives it. And I wonder how 'in touch' he really is these days with modern players, the college game, modern fans, etc. so that he can trust his 'gut'.

    And looking back, how many of Walsh's moves have been proactive and how many have been reactive? How often can you go to that well before it's dry?

    He's played the 'small market' card at every turn... meanwhile the team down the street hasn't used that as an excuse and has a SB trophy to show for it. Poeple don't want to hear excuses, they want to see results. The excuses are just hurdles you have to get over.

    I also believe in this era a franchise needs to be dynamic. You can't stand still. You have to energize the fanbase with words and action. The worse you are, the worse it is for you to stand pat, especially in the face of a failing team. For example: If you know you aren't going to play Owens, why not trade him for a player you might use? At least give the fans something to have a little hope in and keep them interested a few extra weeks. If nothing else, at least you tried. Plus, maybe that sends a signal to the rest of the team as well. How disparaging it must be for an Indiana Pacer that really cares about winning and losing to see all the troubles around you these days and to see management ignore problems from prior seasons, thru the summer, and right on up thru the trade deadline.

    It makes me wonder if Walsh has one of those "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" statues in his office?

    We need someone with a dynamic vision that can sell ice to Eskimos. We need someone who sees the importance of marketing this team to a wider area. They are called the Indiana Pacers yet almost ignore anywhere outside of Marion county. And they need to be properly marketed in the first place.

    If the Simons are in a coma, then we need someone who can wake them up and sell them on a vision that they also can get fans and players alike behind.

    That ain't Walsh... and apparently it ain't Bird either...

    Really it boils down to this, not only can Walsh not get us out of this but he owns a huge piece of the blame for why we're here at this point.

    If the Simons think this is how a team should be ran, and continue to have faith in Walsh/Bird, then the only logical conclusion that they can draw from the dwindling fan support is that Indianapolis no longer cares about NBA basketball... and so they'll figure Indianapolis won't care when they move the team (or sell it to someone who will move it).

    I think that would be putting misplaced loyalty into Walsh... And as Adam has said: The Simons' loyalty to Walsh is going to be the ruination of the franchise.


    -Bball

    Good points Bball the only contradiction I may have is that in retrospect, slow as molasses DW may be what was needed to offset "I wanna trade everybody again today"....Larry Brown. IMPO LB would never have made it to the finals if he'd been in charge becasue the minute he got frustrated with someone he wanted to trade them...We wouldn't have had Rick or Dale or even (especially even) Reggie if The Hangin' Judge had been in charge.

    Otherwise I agree.
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

  23. #23

    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    A guy like Donnie isn't all good or all bad. Like all executives, he gets the credit or the blame as the guy at the top, but he isn't able to manipulate every situation just the way he wants to.

    Nevertheless, I find that when you get a situation like this, where a particular management regime is associated with a lingering strategic problem, it typically takes an outsider to come in and make the sweeping changes necessary to effect real change.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    I wish "bulletproof" were still around. He used to be just about the #1 defender of Donnie Walsh. But, alas, he is no more.

    For myself, I'll give Walsh a respectful "No." As Wintermute says, Walsh no longer has any fire in his belly. As Will Galen says, Walsh is on his way out.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Default Re: Vote of confidence: Donnie Walsh

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    I wish "bulletproof" were still around. He used to be just about the #1 defender of Donnie Walsh. But, alas, he is no more.

    For myself, I'll give Walsh a respectful "No." As Wintermute says, Walsh no longer has any fire in his belly. As Will Galen says, Walsh is on his way out.
    Putnam, I agree, any NO vote should be done respectfully. Like his style or not, blame him or not, he made the moves that gave us glory for 10+ years and nobody since the ABA days had done that.
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

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