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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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A (Universal) Health Care Question

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  • #61
    Re: A (Universal) Health Care Question

    I started writing, and got very caught up, honestly at this point I don't care if no one reads it because writing it was very cathartic.
    (proposals that lead to cost saving have a "cost-saving tag," those that lead to improved health care have an "improved health care" tag, and those that require more money have a "requires more money" tag)


    The problem is complex, so is the solution. I think this is the "American" health care solution:


    1) Universal, government-paid preventative health care: yearly check ups, screenings, etc. Health insurance companies have no market motivation to invest in your future health because such programs don't pay off for 20 or 30 years, and at that point you've changed jobs and therefore health insurance companies. But it does make sense for the government to invest in its people's health, and for you conservatives, our future working pool. It'll cost more now, but it'll pay off later. [requires more money] [cost-saving] [improved health care]


    2) A universal insurance mandate for health treatment when you do get sick. You must have insurance, either privately or through an expanded government program (see #3). This allows us to spread the risk amongst those who currently don't feel the need to buy insurance (that is why I stress the plight of the poorly insured who are doing everything right over the unisured, many of whom are young, healthy, and dumb and just don’t want to buy it). Those who are “losing out” by being forced to buy insurance that they judge doesn’t make sense for them will make their money back when they get older, sicker, and have cheaper insurance because the next generation of healthy young idiots is also contributing to the insurance pool. [requires more money] [cost-saving]


    3) Universal, government sponsored treatment implemented at the state level (because, after all, New York's needs are different than Kansas’, and because this system already seems to have some support with California and Massachusets doing so well) set up to compete with private insurance. If you want private insurance or it is provided by an employer, go ahead and take it, you can opt-out of the government program, and get a tax rebate or other financial return. If you want government provided insurance, you will be provided with it at an appropriate cost based on your income.

    This "expanded medicare" program would have the following characteristics, which I feel would soon push the private sector to adopt similar principles because it would prove to be superior to their current system:
    A)Price control at the level of providers. Diagnostic related groups pay physicians standard amounts for certain types of patients no matter how many tests are ordered, reducing the incentive for physicians to order unnecessary tests to stuff their own wallets. The optimal system is likely some mixture of pay-per-patient and pay-per-procedure. [cost-saving]
    B) Incentives for physicians to treat chronically ill patients with multiple conditions, simply by paying more for it. Chronic conditions are America’s Number 1 health problem, we need to pay doctors to treat it. Health insurance companies don’t do it because it costs them too much. But the government should do it because, despite the cost, it’s the right thing to do. [requires more money] [improved health care]
    C) Pay more for consultation and talking to patients. Doctors will spend more time with their patients if they are actually paid for it (right now the rates are dismal) rather than just paid for procedures. [requires more money] [improved health care]
    D) Cut down coverage of pro-longed end of life care in Intensive Care Units, which right now make up most of our costs. Shift some of that money to palliative and hospice care. Essentially, you can’t spend three years brain-dead on a ventilator (just one year), but you can be allowed to die in peace in a hospice instead of poked and prodded in a hospital because your insurance doesn’t cover hospice care. If you don’t like this system, get private insurance that will keep you alive forever. This is one of those unfortunate concessions we must make to economic reality. [HUGE cost-saving]
    E) Allow the government to negotiate with drug companies to get Americans cheap drugs by purchasing in bulk. Why should drug companies, who so loudly beat the free market drum, get this decidedly socialist advantage that is currently in place, where Medicare can’t negotiate on behalf of its patients. [HUGE cost-saving]


    4) Standardized billing and accounting procedures for insurance companies. These must be heavily regulated to be standardized to reduce the confusion and administration of the current system. Yes, regulation reduces innovation, but there's not much innovation at the front-end of insurer-consumer and insurer-health care provider interaction, and the current hodge-podge system has led to ridiculous administrative burdens that can't be approached by even the worst government bureaucratic nightmare.
    Furthermore, one of the most underrated difficulties with the current system is that it is so complicated no one understands their coverage. I work in the field and have no idea. Simple, readable insurance that can be understood by people can only be demanded at the government level would lead to a drastic improvement in health care. [GREATLY improved health care]


    5) Aggressive government prosecution of insurance companies that attempt to deny coverage that is guaranteed, counting on the fact that consumers will be too busy, sick, or worried to complain. Legislation that increases these penalties to levels that companies can no longer consider "the cost of doing business." [improved health care]


    6) Electronic Health Records. It’s about damn time. Mandated by 2015 (I think there already is some half-assed Bush mandate that really means nothing). A government-run, opt-in system for those who want it competing with smaller private health record firms to drive down costs and for those concerned about privacy and government involvement. Strong laws in place that absolutely no one can see those records except doctors. Eventually, this will save money by leading to decreased adminstriative costs and reduced errors, but it requires an up-front investment.
    [requires more money] [cost-saving] [improved health care]

    7) Mal-practice reform. Doctors order too many tests because they are afraid you will sue them if something bad happens . It drives up costs much more than the 4% figure John Kerry cited in the election (when Bush was pro-reform), which is only the portion of total health care spending that mal-practice insurance takes up. It needs to be balanced so that hospitals are still incentivized to cut down mistakes, but doctors don’t have to live in fear. Perhaps setting it up so that mal-practice awards come mostly from the hospital where it took place, so that the hospital is motivated to ensure its physicians make fewer mistakes (and hire good ones), and take some of that award money and make a pool that eases the insurance burden on a doctor that has made just one mistake. Health care will also improve as doctor's don't order unnecessary tests just to cover their ***. [cost-saving] [improved health care]


    8) The American taxpayer should be paid back for all the free research and development he provides pharmaceuticals. This section is a bit long and a bit off the core topic, but nonetheless important, so please read if you have time: [HUGE cost-saving]
    Currently, ideas are developed or basic science discoveries are made mostly by an academic physicians/researchers or small biotech start-ups. Drug company R&D budgets pale in comparison to their massive marketing budgets, and they rely on being able to buy up these discoveries. In the case of an academic, the discovery is owned by the university, but is quickly licensed back to the discoverer or a biotech company and developed. If developed successfully, it is eventually sold to a pharmaceutical company, who can run large clinical trials and make profits off of it. But a tremendous amount, in fact the majority, of the research was made possible by grants sent out by the government National Institutes of Health and financed by the American taxpayer. This is an underrated example of something that our government does well; in fact, I would put the military and scientific research as the two best examples of American government competence.
    However, there are two problems. The first is a market failure created by an imbalance of risk. Most drugs don’t get anywhere. Thus, an individual or small biotech start up wants to sell their idea as quickly as possible because most likely that drug won’t make any money. But pharma, which has a massive drug portfolio, can absorb losses, and is the only entity with enough funds to run multiple large-scale trials, this drug is a sound investment. Thus, the same idea is worth less to the small company and more to big pharma, which is why they buy drugs on the cheap and gets tons of money in return.
    The second is that the government asks for too little in return: essentially nothing.
    These two issues can be addressed by a stipulation in all government research grants: if you develop any ideas resulting from this research and sell them to anyone, the government gets 5% of any eventual profits. This makes researchers and small biotechs negotiate for more; they still want to sell the drug ASAP, but by law pharma can’t pay a comparative pittance, it has to put its profits on the line. And it pays back the taxpayer for their investment. Don’t worry, pharma will be fine, it is the most profitable industry in the world and will continue to do what it does
    Last edited by bulldog; 03-01-2008, 06:39 PM.
    2010 IKL Fantasy Basketball Champion Baltimore Bulldogs

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