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Thread: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

  1. #1
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    Default Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    Here is a clip of Tinsley's injury and JO's injury. Do you think the Piston players did anything to "assist" these, or was it just bad luck?

    Right click, save as:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/youdecide.mov

    Personally, I think the JO one was bad luck, but I kind of suspect the first one. It seems Ben sticks his leg out in front of Tinsley.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    The undercuts on the rebounds are intentional acts by the Ben's and Karl Malones as it gives them an advantage. Did he try to tear JO's knee up...I hope not and the intention was to get the rebound.

    The other is tough because they like to trap and trap aggressively.

    Intriguing though how Ben is involved in both!

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    Come on man...No one is out there trying to injure the players. Especially somebody like Ben Wallace. Do you guys seriously believe that??

    Ben and JO were coming down at the same time. It's not even like Ben set JO up to undercut him. They both jumped to get the ball and they came down at the same time.

    Tinsleys injury was unfortunate too. Pistons were just trapping and placed his foot next to Ben's while running. Big deal.

    You guys can't be serious about Ben wanting to injure another player on purpose.

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    Here is a clip of Tinsley's injury and JO's injury. Do you think the Piston players did anything to "assist" these, or was it just bad luck?

    Right click, save as:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/youdecide.mov

    Personally, I think the JO one was bad luck, but I kind of suspect the first one. It seems Ben sticks his leg out in front of Tinsley.
    Hicks: Both were accidental. End of story.

    It's ridiculous to even ponder that the injuries were inflicted intentionally.

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    Ben definitely undercut JO. And I believe it was on purpose, but it wasn't meant to cause harm. It was done to gain an advantage.

    I don't think Ben did anything deliberate in the Tinsley case. He just reached in for the ball and in doing so his foot ended up under Jamal's foot.
    "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    Boy this Thread should turn in the a Flame war pretty quick and complaining about this is just sour grapes

    Both were accidental. End of story

  7. #7

    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    Ben definitely undercut JO. And I believe it was on purpose, but it wasn't meant to cause harm. It was done to gain an advantage.

    I don't think Ben did anything deliberate in the Tinsley case. He just reached in for the ball and in doing so his foot ended up under Jamal's foot.

    I agree with this.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    Oh Lord you Guys act like this is the First time it has Happened in the NBA , I have seen this happen several times , it was misfourtunate but **** happens.

    If this woulda have happened in the Season and Not the ECF would this thread even have been posted ? If we would have won the ECF would this thread be posted ?

    All Nonesense

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    Oh Lord you Guys act like this is the First time it has Happened in the NBA , I have seen this happen several times , it was misfourtunate but **** happens.

    If this woulda have happened in the Season and Not the ECF would this thread even have been posted ? If we would have won the ECF would this thread be posted ?

    All Nonesense
    I don't think anyone has said it hasn't happened before. It has happened, several times. Fortunately it doesn't always result in injury, this time it did.

    The only reasons we are discussing this is because it happened in the ECF, it happened to an MVP candidate and it changed the complexion of the series.
    "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    How can you suspect Wallace of undercutting intentionally but not with the intention to cause harm? What advantage does one gain from standing under a player as he comes down from a rebound? Are you saying Wallace calculated his jump so that he would land backwards and under JO's butt just before JO landed?

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    is anyone watching the same video I am?? They both jumped to get the rebound, Ben lost his balance because he landed on 1 foot and had to bend over to balance himself to keep from falling on the ground. None of that looked intentional. It doesn't even look like he "tried" to undercut Jermaine. Ben's focus was to grab the ball. He didn't have enough time to plot to undercut JO.

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    If you look carefully, frame by frame even, you will see that at no given moment does Ben make a move to the ball.
    His arm is besides him all the time, if he went for the ball, the least he would do is have a hand out.
    Slow-Mo shows you something else then you are saying.

    As for the rebound; yeah I believe he is going for the ball, with his back to that ball and the basket.........
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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    If you look carefully, frame by frame even, you will see that at no given moment does Ben make a move to the ball.
    His arm is besides him all the time, if he went for the ball, the least he would do is have a hand out.
    Slow-Mo shows you something else then you are saying.

    As for the rebound; yeah I believe he is going for the ball, with his back to that ball and the basket.........
    That video does not show what transpired before Ben turned around like that. The video starts on Bens decent. Ben is genius if he timed his jump so that he would land before JO in enough time to bend over and undercut him without looking intentional. That would be some serious planning and it would be malicious at that. I don't think Ben did that on purpose.

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    Yesterday someone brought up the idea of Artest intentionally injuring RIP and someone replied with "If Artest wanted to hurt Hamilton, he would have killed him" (thats a paraphase not an exact quote)

    I think the same can be said in this instance.

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    I'm just asking to see what you all thought; and I explained that I'm not convinced anything malicious took place. But the first part caught my attention just a bit, so I decided to see if anyone else saw it that way or not. This isn't a witch hunt, nor am I complaining- what's done is done; I'm just asking the question for the sake of something to do now.

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    If you look carefully, frame by frame even, you will see that at no given moment does Ben make a move to the ball.
    His arm is besides him all the time, if he went for the ball, the least he would do is have a hand out.
    Slow-Mo shows you something else then you are saying.

    As for the rebound; yeah I believe he is going for the ball, with his back to that ball and the basket.........
    That video does not show what transpired before Ben turned around like that. The video starts on Bens decent. Ben is genius if he timed his jump so that he would land before JO in enough time to bend over and undercut him without looking intentional. That would be some serious planning and it would be malicious at that. I don't think Ben did that on purpose.
    I never said it was "intended with malice aforethought".

    However, this "way of rebounding" is seen more often, they are not going for the ball, just to make a point, make you think about going up again to often. Oh and it's a foul but never whistled.

    I also notice that you are silent on the stepping in on Jamaal.

    No matter what, it's irrelevant, there was no foul called, nothing and we were without our starting PG and had to make do with our Star playing on 1 leg.

    Surely that improved Detroit's chances.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    P.S., what's with people using "End of story." to end their posts? What is this, Yawk-ville?

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    If you look carefully, frame by frame even, you will see that at no given moment does Ben make a move to the ball.
    His arm is besides him all the time, if he went for the ball, the least he would do is have a hand out.
    Slow-Mo shows you something else then you are saying.

    As for the rebound; yeah I believe he is going for the ball, with his back to that ball and the basket.........
    That video does not show what transpired before Ben turned around like that. The video starts on Bens decent. Ben is genius if he timed his jump so that he would land before JO in enough time to bend over and undercut him without looking intentional. That would be some serious planning and it would be malicious at that. I don't think Ben did that on purpose.
    I never said it was "intended with malice aforethought".

    However, this "way of rebounding" is seen more often, they are not going for the ball, just to make a point, make you think about going up again to often. Oh and it's a foul but never whistled.

    I also notice that you are silent on the stepping in on Jamaal.

    No matter what, it's irrelevant, there was no foul called, nothing and we were without our starting PG and had to make do with our Star playing on 1 leg.

    Surely that improved Detroit's chances.
    I am silent on Jamaal because it was obvious that wasn't intentional.

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    ...

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    <shrugs> only in the eye of the beholder
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    Yesterday someone brought up the idea of Artest intentionally injuring RIP and someone replied with "If Artest wanted to hurt Hamilton, he would have killed him" (thats a paraphase not an exact quote)

    I think the same can be said in this instance.
    Even though I am not a Ben fan, I agree with you. Ben doesn't seem to be the type of player what would intentionally try to hurt someones career. That man's name is Karl Malone.

  22. #22
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    These are just regular NBA injuries. Just our bad luck.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    These are just regular NBA injuries. Just our bad luck.


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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    These are just regular NBA injuries. Just our bad luck.
    Very, very true.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Intentional, or accident? You decide.

    oooh I agree with that, but.......

    regular injuries does not mean that they did not happen "accidental", after all when you play Malone, getting your nose broke is also bad luck but a regular "Malone" injury

    And yes to bad luck, no doubt, I started of by saying that the outcome was likely not intended, but that doesn't make the action intent-less.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


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