Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 41

Thread: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

  1. #1

    Default Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    As I look at the standings in the East as of this date (2/13/08), it's clear that the Pacers aren't out of the playoff picture just yet. But for the third straight year it's going to depend largely upon what the teams around them do rather than what the Pacers themselves do in order for this team to get into the post season. From that perspective, their playoff hopes aren't too bright. Still, there is hope...

    The Pacers are currently in 10th place and are 2 games out of the 8th seed and 8 games out of the 4th seed. With 30 games remaining, there's still time to move up, but as I eluded to in the fan blog, "Somethings Got to Give," a change or two is necessary to move this team forward. That change could either come in the form of a trade OR from the more likely source - a player stepping up and deciding he will do whatever it takes to carry the team. Either way, something definitely has to change either with the roster or the team's mentality.

    Unlike some fans, I don't accept tanking the season because it sells the team short and it does the fans a great dis-service. Any true fan wants to see his team succeed. Granted, we all get frustrated when things aren't going well, but I've never been one who believes that throwing in the towel is the best solution as far as team sports are concerned. There's always that slim chance that something good will happen. To that, I have seen some good things from this Pacers team over the last 2-3 weeks.

    Looking back over their last 11 losses, except for their games against the Bulls, Bucks (23 & 24 Jan, respectively) and Spurs (2/5), the Pacers have lost by an avg of 5 pts. And to be fair, they've only been blown out once in all 11 loses (Spurs, 116-89). Pacers hadn't had such a lop-sided game since 8 January when they loss to the Jazz, 111-89. Players are talking to each other while on the court more pointing out defensive assignments. As a result, defensive rotations have gotten better. Shot selection has also improved. Ball movement has remained fairly constant. Unfortunately, players continue to miss far too many wide open shots, as well as what should be some easy layups. The biggest change I've noticed is players are trying to drive the lanes more and have stopped settling for jump shots especially near the end of games. IMO, this team remains a post player and a confident "go-to-guy" away from getting over the hump.

    Granger and Dunleavy continue to be the two most aggressive scoring threats the Pacers have right now. My hope is that Granger steps into the role of "go-to-guy" in the clutch. He seems to be more suited for it than Dunleavy. Part of that just might be personality; Granger seems to embrace it more. Regardless, one of these players have to step into that role because until they do this team will not get over that hump.

    The one dimension this team lacks is post-play. I'm sure most would never admit that this team misses "a healthy" JO, but it's true. My gut tells me he won't be traded. For some, this might be a disappointment, but considering that none of the top teams in the East have made any changes to their rosters whatsoever and there doesn't seem to be any players of starting caliber available who can truly change the dynamic of this team, the focus IMO should be less on moving JO/Tinsley and more on finding one decent backup Center/PF.

    The playing field in the East remains very wide upon from the 4th seed down. Eight games aren't that difficult to make up. My gut tells me that JO and Tinsley both will be back after the Break. If so, this team should be positioned to make a run, but winning 20+ games out of 30 won't be easy. Odds are, they won't accomplish this feat. Hence, just as what happened two seasons ago, the Pacers will need lots of help from teams above them to get back to the post season.

    I remain a fan; my fingers are crossed...

    Here's hoping...
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 02-14-2008 at 11:35 AM.

  2. #2
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,253

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    I respect your position, and I hate to rain on your parade, but I still think making the playoffs is the worst thing that could happen at this point. If we go as low as seven... We have a slight chance at a top three (Gordon or Rose) or even around seven you could pick up Bayless and fix our go-to scoring/point problem. Augustin is an interesting pure point gaurd prospect, Roy Hibbert a very skilled center. I see lots of options in that top 10-12 range, get out in 15-17 it becomes a lot more of a crapshoot.

    I don't want to suck for a long time and try to use the lottery for years, but I think our team is actually pretty close. Granger is like a great side kick star, a great #2, same with dunleavy, but we need a real #1 go-to clutch sort of guy on this team. and not over the hill Vince Carter either. Either that or a stellar point gaurd, or maybe a combination of the two. This draft has Rose, Gordon, Mayo, Bayless, etc... lots of possibilities. We need to get into this draft.

    If I were Bird I would trade foster to utah for almond and the pick (or just one of the two if thats all we can get) Daniels for an expiring contract, and sit JO and Tinsley for the rest of the season.

    yeah yeah, nobody is a "sure thing" but I would rather roll the dice than be mediocre forever.

    Sorry, not trying to hijack your thread or anything.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 02-14-2008 at 11:33 AM.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  3. #3
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,253

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    The one dimension this team lacks is post-play. I'm sure most would never admit that this team misses "a healthy" JO, but it's true. My gut tells me he won't be traded. For some, this might be a disappointment, but considering that none of the top teams in the East have made any changes to their rosters whatsoever and there doesn't seem to be any players of starting caliber available who can truly change the dynamic of this team, the focus IMO should be less on moving JO/Tinsley and more on finding one decent backup Center/PF.
    I think trading JO right now is a bad ideal also... let him sit and see what he can do next year. If he is possibly back to his old form next year could actually have a pretty bright outlook if we can add one of those top guard prospects from this draft. At the very least he can bump his trade value a bit so maybe we could at least trade him for a replacement big man prospect next year.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  4. #4
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,276

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Any true fan wants to see his team succeed.
    I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but I wish people would leave all the "true fan" nonsense at the door.

    I want my team to succeed. And you know what? Barely making the playoffs and getting hammered in the first round every season is NOT succeeding.

  5. #5
    Member Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brownsburg
    Posts
    8,528

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but I wish people would leave all the "true fan" nonsense at the door.

    I want my team to succeed. And you know what? Barely making the playoffs and getting hammered in the first round every season is NOT succeeding.

    Exactly, if this were an up and coming team and hadn't made the playoffs in years, yes, I'd want that, its not.

    If this was Atlanta, ya its a great thing. This is a mismatched group that even when maximizing talent doesn't compete at a championship level, nor can they, imho.

  6. #6
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,631

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    It's been said before....but the only way that we are going to make the Playoffs is by backing into the 8th spot. We're just not that good to actually earn it.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  7. #7
    J.O. To The T.O. Oneal07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,459

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's been said before....but the only way that we are going to make the Playoffs is by backing into the 8th spot. We're just not that good to actually earn it.
    Then who is? How many teams in the East have losing records and will make the playoffs. .. If we have the "better" record, then we deserve whatever seed we get!!!

    Who cares if we get swept. Who cares if we can't get that #5 pick just by losing the rest of the season.
    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

  8. #8
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,987

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneal07 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Who cares if we get swept. Who cares if we can't get that #5 pick just by losing the rest of the season.
    I very much care having to watch a play-off series where we get swept with an average of 15-20 pts. Yeah... thats GREAT play-off experience .

    Especially if the consequence of such a "success" is getting a WAY lower pick then I at this point of time looking at my team and it's future with regards to contracts, etc would say screw that embarassment of a first round play-off series and go for the pick to give this team a chance to restore some balance/extra talent in this roster and some future for this franchise.

    For the rest I aggree with what Shade wrote. I consider myself a "truefan" I don't think someone else should be telling me what position I should take to be considered a "truefan". In fact I consider every member here a true fan, otherwise why would you be in here posting or reading in the first place?

    Regards,

    Mourning
    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

  9. #9

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    So basically what I'm reading here is most fans would rather the Pacers NOT get to the post-season because they feel in doing so getting there would take away from the Pacers' chances of getting a high draft pick. And while there is a high probability of the Pacers being swept in the first-round, it's secondary to NOT getting a high draft pick. Am I correct? If that is the case, my question to those who feel this way is this:

    "Why do you covet draft picks so much?"

    If you (the fans) care so much not just about the team becoming championship caliber but actually winning a title, why do you view getting draft picks so much more over tweaking the team and improving through free agency? I mean, what assurance does any team have that any draft pick will actually pay dividens?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but I wish people would leave all the "true fan" nonsense at the door.

    I want my team to succeed. And you know what? Barely making the playoffs and getting hammered in the first round every season is NOT succeeding.
    Granted, making the post-season and getting outstead in the first-round isn't quite my idea of success either, BUT if this mediocre team can get there then to me it is a success of sorts...an accomplishment...a first-level goal reached.

    Look, anyone who thought this team was a championship caliber team coming into this season was just plain nuts! Even Bird knew he didn't have a winner with this crew. BUT he knew that if things clicked and players remained healthy this team had as good a shot as any to get back to the post-season and perhaps get through the first round. Bruno said it best in one of his recent blogs; the team has gone through a bigger transformation that even the most advit fan acknowledges: 8 of 15 new players, practically the entire coaching staff has changed not to mention the team coming into the season learning a new system on both sides of the ball. Nothing about this season was going to be easy and if you paid attention, you knew that from the very beginning. Still, not even I thought things would be this rough.

    What's made it so difficult for me is the lies and the hype, i.e., JO, JOB and TPTB all played down JO's injury, all the talk about getting "the best shooter in the league" when all we really got was Kareem Rush, the "comeback kid" (not really knocking him, but he hasn't really shot lights out so far...), plus all the talk of players earning playing time whether a veteran or a rookie and all the talk about having more athletic players only to see very little of it. (There aren't many play-makers on this team who can use their athleticism to create shot opportunities for themselves. Thus, ball distribution and not raw talent rules the day for this team and that's bad!) It's been these issues far more than anything else that have frustrated me about this team. I think I could have dealt with the "mediocrity" better if there was more honesty and far less hype to begin with. Because when it comes right down to it all the fans want is the truth and players who will give it their very best every game.

    Still, through it all I'm still here, one of the faithful trying to will his team to..."success"...no matter how small.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 02-14-2008 at 05:12 PM.

  10. #10
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,631

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So basically what I'm reading here is most fans would rather the Pacers NOT get to the post-season because they feel in doing so getting there wiould take away from the Pacers' chances of getting a high draft pick. And while there is a high probability of the Pacers being swept in the first-round, it's secondary to NOT getting a high draft pick. I'm I correct? If that is the case, my question to those who feel this way is this:

    "Why do you covet draft picks so much?"

    If you (the fans) care so much not just about the team becoming championship caliber but actually winning a title, why do you view getting draft picks so much more over tweaking the team and improving through free agency? I mean, what assurance does any team have that any draft pick will actually pay dividens?
    The likely difference in making the Playoffs and missing it is going to be 2 or 3 draft spots.

    If the Pacers somehow earn or back into the 8th spot of the Playoffs.....we would likely have the 15th pick ( there is no way that the West is going to have bad enough records to be worse then the Eastern Conference 8th Place team ) . But if we continue to play the way we play and somehow miss the Playoffs....win some games...lose most games.....we will likely be where we were last season.....somewhere between the 11th to 14th draft pick.

    That's the question......is a few draft spots going to make a difference for us?

    I'm not going to fool myself into believing that we can get a Franchise player.....but if things go right and we actually have a good talent scout......I'm guessing that we can probably land a decent Starter if not a solid rotational player for the future.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    To IMF,

    Everyone whose talking "draft picks" forget one thing: It sometimes takes years before a young prospects shows his worth. Take Kobe Bryant for example. It was 3 yrs before he became a permanent fixture among the Lakers' starters.

    It's rare when guys like LeBron James or Carmelo Anthony step right in from day 1 as starters. Either the draft pick has some amazing talent or your roster is so jacked up you have no choice but to play him! I'm of the opinion that teams either get lucky or they're desperate when it comes to draft picks. The lucky teams are those who do their home work but can afford to groom that prospect for a few years before placing him at the forefront. The desperate teams do as the Cavs, Nuggets and now the Blazers and Sonics have done - they bet the farm and throw that top talent out there in the hopes that he will learn on the fly and get better. For the Cavs and Nuggets it has worked to a degree. For the Blazers and Sonics, these teams clearly have an upside w/their prospects for the future. Regardless, it still took the Cavs 3 yrs before King James was able to propel his team to contender status and most of that had to do with placing the talent around him than LeBron himself (though I take nothing away from the guy; he is an awesome talent!).

    My point is it's going to take time even with draft picks to turn things around. What failed the Paces this years are:

    1) Injuries

    2) Going with "versatile" players at various position vice finding "skilled" players at every position even as role players. (We'll save that for another thread, however.)

    Nonetheless, if JO and Tinsley can return healthy after the Break, I think the Pacers have a good chance of moving up to at least the 6th seed but it's going to take JOB changing things up alittle bit in order to do it.

    To CableKC,

    You've come back to my point which is unless that draft pick is one awesome talent it's going to take anywhere from 3-5 years BEFORE we even see any really dividends from the draftee.

    In the Pacers defense, injuries have once again played a big role in this team's struggles not to mention the overall makeup of the roster - too many jump shooters, not enough slasher, bashers or play-makers! Still, I'm convinced - based solely on how the team has played since January 8th when JOB first went to a small-ball lineup - that this team could have moved up the ranks had JO and Tinsley NOT been injured, as well as if the team's real 6th Man, Ike, not gotten injured early in the season. I don't think I'm stretching things too far when I say the key to the roster's longevity (depth) was in having JO, Tinsley and Ike healthy this year. Once all three went down and/or their performance faultered...

    And now those injuries have begun to mount: Deiner (ankle), Rush (wrist), Williams (ankle), Dunleavy (ankle/knee). These are players the coaching staff had hung their hats on and every one of them has some ache or pain somewhere. The All-Star Break couldn't have come at a better time. My hope is that JO and Tinsley come back at least 99% and that JOB sees the benefit to playing Ike and Graham more after their performances against the Pistons (2/13) even in garbage time. I think both deserve playing time.

    If we can get JO and Tinsley back healthy, depth will once again be this team's ally and maybe...just maybe...the Pacers can make a real push toward the post-season.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 02-15-2008 at 11:16 AM.

  12. #12
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but I wish people would leave all the "true fan" nonsense at the door.

    I want my team to succeed. And you know what? Barely making the playoffs and getting hammered in the first round every season is NOT succeeding.
    And that list of "every season" includes what?

    00-01, okay they won the first game vs Philly then got dismissed, but I thought people were pretty happy back then that the team rebuilding did so with Reggie, Rose and soon-to-be all-star JO on the roster

    01-02 Game 5, OT thanks to Reggie. That's not hammered, that's a classic Pacers moment even in a loss.

    02-03 this is one reason why Isiah was dumped. Still they had the BEST RECORD at the AS break and put two guys on the AS team. The ONLY thing that team failed to do was make good in the playoffs

    03-04 won their first 6 playoff games by double digits, a record. Went 6 games into the ECF. 61 wins most in franchise history....yeah, I was sick of it by then too

    04-05 Brawl sucked, but still won 2 games in the SECOND round

    05-06 out in the first, but even then they had some moments when they threatened NJ a little. I will concede this fits your complaint

    06-07 didn't make the playoffs, your dream season...even if they kept the pick would Acie Law really be making things better at this moment? Hell no

    For all this "they keep spinning their wheels" talk, that's just crap. They've been putting guys on AS teams for basically the decade, they've been a home court seed twice, they've done the ECF and 2nd round. And this is all coming off a serious rebuilding losing Dale, Rik and Jax all at the same time.


    Cable, 8th seed is 15th pick, continuing the current rate puts them around 8th or 9th pick, not 11-12.

    My one major point in all this is for all the short sighted complainers LAST YEAR that wanted a tank then to get a pick, is that still what you wanted, Acie Law over the group of PG/SG you can get at 9-10 this year? Because if you'd kept that pick and then landed 9th this year you'd be sending that one to ATL instead. Frankly I like guys like Bayless and Augustin more than Law.

    I hate that they gave up the pick, but I love that they gave it to Atlanta last year instead of this year.

  13. #13
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,628

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    First off let me say to nuffsaid, good thread. I love your passion and you make very compelling arguments for your point of view.

    Now having said that I want to state where I am at.

    I am high on a cliff hanging onto an elephants tail who is hanging onto a daisy so we don't fall over.

    In other words I am teetering.

    On the one hand I will emphatically say this. If after the all-star break the team comes back with the exact same lineup we went into the break with (expecpt put Diener back over Daniels) and they come back and start winning at a good pace and make the 8th seed with a .500% record I will be as proud of them as I was the team that went to the second round the year of the brawl & I would be more than happy to support that.

    However if Jamaal & Jermaine come back and we win 1 out of every 3 games and the teams above and below us faulter and we somehow back our way into the 8th seed then I will be disgusted.

    On the other hand I am like you, there are no guarantee's in the draft and there is no one way to win a title. If there was then everybody would do it.

    One caveat to all of this. If somehow the Pacers make a trade to clear up the deadwood and the new players come in here and start kicking @ss then I think we should all root for a deep deep playoff run.

    However I do want to correct one statement that you have made. We are not a mediocre team. In fact since 2008 started we are one of the worst if not the worst teams in the NBA record wise. We are 10 game below being mediocre.

    I understand both sides of this arguement though.

    I don't want to tank for some mythical draft pick that may end up being more Harold Minor than Michael Jordan, yet I do NOT view getting to the playoffs as being a success either.

    Either way great thread and keep fighting the good fight.

  14. #14
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,115

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And that list of "every season" includes what?

    00-01, okay they won the first game vs Philly then got dismissed, but I thought people were pretty happy back then that the team rebuilding did so with Reggie, Rose and soon-to-be all-star JO on the roster

    01-02 Game 5, OT thanks to Reggie. That's not hammered, that's a classic Pacers moment even in a loss.

    02-03 this is one reason why Isiah was dumped. Still they had the BEST RECORD at the AS break and put two guys on the AS team. The ONLY thing that team failed to do was make good in the playoffs

    03-04 won their first 6 playoff games by double digits, a record. Went 6 games into the ECF. 61 wins most in franchise history....yeah, I was sick of it by then too

    04-05 Brawl sucked, but still won 2 games in the SECOND round

    05-06 out in the first, but even then they had some moments when they threatened NJ a little. I will concede this fits your complaint

    06-07 didn't make the playoffs, your dream season...even if they kept the pick would Acie Law really be making things better at this moment? Hell no
    .
    Nice recap of why the JO/JT era Pacers are underwhelming....


    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  15. #15

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Peck,

    "Mediocre" was their word, not mine. I was being sarcastic when I used it. They were being serious!

  16. #16
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,276

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And that list of "every season" includes what?

    00-01, okay they won the first game vs Philly then got dismissed, but I thought people were pretty happy back then that the team rebuilding did so with Reggie, Rose and soon-to-be all-star JO on the roster

    01-02 Game 5, OT thanks to Reggie. That's not hammered, that's a classic Pacers moment even in a loss.

    02-03 this is one reason why Isiah was dumped. Still they had the BEST RECORD at the AS break and put two guys on the AS team. The ONLY thing that team failed to do was make good in the playoffs

    03-04 won their first 6 playoff games by double digits, a record. Went 6 games into the ECF. 61 wins most in franchise history....yeah, I was sick of it by then too

    04-05 Brawl sucked, but still won 2 games in the SECOND round

    05-06 out in the first, but even then they had some moments when they threatened NJ a little. I will concede this fits your complaint

    06-07 didn't make the playoffs, your dream season...even if they kept the pick would Acie Law really be making things better at this moment? Hell no

    For all this "they keep spinning their wheels" talk, that's just crap. They've been putting guys on AS teams for basically the decade, they've been a home court seed twice, they've done the ECF and 2nd round. And this is all coming off a serious rebuilding losing Dale, Rik and Jax all at the same time.


    Cable, 8th seed is 15th pick, continuing the current rate puts them around 8th or 9th pick, not 11-12.

    My one major point in all this is for all the short sighted complainers LAST YEAR that wanted a tank then to get a pick, is that still what you wanted, Acie Law over the group of PG/SG you can get at 9-10 this year? Because if you'd kept that pick and then landed 9th this year you'd be sending that one to ATL instead. Frankly I like guys like Bayless and Augustin more than Law.

    I hate that they gave up the pick, but I love that they gave it to Atlanta last year instead of this year.
    Do you not see the downward trend? We're getting worse with each passing season.

    In hindsight, perhaps you're right. Maybe I was being too optimistic. The East isn't always going to suck to the point where we can back into the 8th playoff spot playing .400 ball. Just out of the playoffs and a pick in the mid-first round every year sounds more probable to me.

    And my problem with losing last year's pick is that we gave it away for Al Harrington, which I was against from the get-go. We should have had BOTH of our picks.

  17. #17
    Member Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brownsburg
    Posts
    8,528

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    It was said earlier, at least give me some hope with that helping of sub mediocreness.

    I'm not saying you tank and put all your eggs in the draft basket.

    I am saying you should either suck with hope or not suck at all.

    You either have to get better now (steal something in a trade) or give me young kids that SOMEDAY you think the Pacers will be a contender. Don't not do either and get stuck in limbo.

    This group as constructed, if they had the best years collectively as they possibly can are not contenders. Thats a jagged pill.

    Again, sucking now and no hope of not sucking in the future is unacceptable.

    Now real fan or whatever, meh, follow them when their best player is Johnny Davis and the curtains are closed then we'll talk.

  18. #18
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,628

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It was said earlier, at least give me some hope with that helping of sub mediocreness.

    I'm not saying you tank and put all your eggs in the draft basket.

    I am saying you should either suck with hope or not suck at all.

    You either have to get better now (steal something in a trade) or give me young kids that SOMEDAY you think the Pacers will be a contender. Don't not do either and get stuck in limbo.

    This group as constructed, if they had the best years collectively as they possibly can are not contenders. Thats a jagged pill.

    Again, sucking now and no hope of not sucking in the future is unacceptable.

    Now real fan or whatever, meh, follow them when their best player is Johnny Davis and the curtains are closed then we'll talk.
    I still say the most under-rated back court in our history was Johnny Davis and Ricky Sobers. I would kill for players like them right now.

  19. #19
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,631

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Cable, 8th seed is 15th pick, continuing the current rate puts them around 8th or 9th pick, not 11-12.
    Frankly, I'm surprised that you think that we will end up with a 8th or 9th pick in the end.

    If I were to believe that JONeal and Tinsley were going to be shutdown for the rest of the season....I would agree with you. But since I am pretty sure that they will be back sometime after the ASB........I think that with JONeal and ( even ) Tinsley, we will be decent enough to still be in the thick of the race to "lose to the Celtics in 5 games" in the 1st round of the Playoffs when we head into April. That doesn't mean that we will get the 8th spot....it just means that we will either backing into the 8th spot......or we will be where we were last season, ending up the 9th or 10th worst Eastern Conference team.

    The only way that I can see us ending up with a record that would get us an 8th or 9th pick in such a weak Eastern Conference is if JONeal and Tinsley sits out for the rest of the season....which I doubt will happen.

    Given the relatively weak remaining schedule....I think that we won't lose as many games as most of us will expect to lose ....which means that we will probably end up with a slightly ( but not significantly ) worse record then last season....which IMHO......should give us either a 10 or 11th pick.
    Last edited by CableKC; 02-15-2008 at 01:20 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  20. #20
    Member Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brownsburg
    Posts
    8,528

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I still say the most under-rated back court in our history was Johnny Davis and Ricky Sobers. I would kill for players like them right now.
    Alas, players on bad teams never get credit, but Davis could fill it up!

  21. #21
    J.O. To The T.O. Oneal07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,459

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    I think all these prospects that people are hyping up are over-rated. Yeah they are good players, but how many prospects are really game changers. not a lot of them. I mean look at Monta Ellis. Look how he's playing in Golden State, and he was a second rounder. People are so much into the hype they over look other players who can probably make a bigger impact. They mostly use it cause it helps sell the franchise, but doesn't actually mean it'll make the team more successful.

    So many second rounders have all-star potential. look at Gilbert Arenas, Monta Ellis, to name a few. We just have to have the proper scouts and scout to what we're doing
    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

  22. #22
    Banned Jonathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,833

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    I think the Pacers Playoff Hopes are better than slim right now. I see the final spots coming down to Chicago, Philly, and the Pacers. Give a wild card to New Jersey, they do not know what they are even doing.

    I blame David Stern for the current playoff format. It needs to change. Why should Portland & Houston both five games above .500 not make the playoffs and we the Pacers fans have to argue about will we or won't we make the playoffs playing eleven game under. Teams are not being rewarded for winning.

  23. #23
    J.O. To The T.O. Oneal07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,459

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think the Pacers Playoff Hopes are better than slim right now. I see the final spots coming down to Chicago, Philly, and the Pacers. Give a wild card to New Jersey, they do not know what they are even doing.

    I blame David Stern for the current playoff format. It needs to change. Why should Portland & Houston both five games above .500 not make the playoffs and we the Pacers fans have to argue about will we or won't we make the playoffs playing eleven game under. Teams are not being rewarded for winning.
    That's the competitiveness of the west. It is what it is
    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

  24. #24
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,767

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I still say the most under-rated back court in our history was Johnny Davis and Ricky Sobers. I would kill for players like them right now.
    I really liked them. I was a little young, but I was a huge fan of Sobers. Both were good defenders, both were tough and somewhat interchangable.

    Yes I would love to have them on the team now

  25. #25

    Default Re: Pacers Playoff Hopes Slim, but I'm not in Panic Mode...Yet...

    This article on Pacer.com supports the Pacers' slim hopes of making the playoffs in much the same fashion I've described...they'll probably back into the post-season rather than taking destiny in their own hands.

    Post-break schedule highly favorable
    Opportunity for surge awaits Pacers


    By Conrad Brunner | Feb. 15, 2008





    Limping into the All-Star break in 11th place in the Eastern Conference, losers of nine of 11 and 19 of 25, the Pacers seem destined for a second consecutive non-playoff season – something that hasn't happened since 1987-89.


    But is it really bleak as all that?

    Careful study of not only the standings but the numbers within reveals a different, considerably less gloomy, picture.

    From sixth-place through 13th, just 6Ĺ games separate eight games, so it is a tightly bunched pack. Of those eight teams, three will reach the playoffs and the Pacers – mathematically, at least – hold an extremely favorable position.

    Let's start with the adjusted standings, often referred to as the plus-minus standings, which offer a truer relative measure of where a team ranks because they normalize imbalance in home-road scheduling. Adjusted standings are based on a team's number of road victories minus its number of home losses. By that measure, the Pacers (11 road victories, 15 home losses) are minus-4, three games behind Washington and in a three-way tie for seventh place with New Jersey and Chicago.

    The Pacers have by far the friendliest schedule the rest of the way, with just 10 of the final 29 games against opponents that currently have winning records. They also have just 13 road games remaining and no trips longer than three games.

    For a measure of the brutality of their schedule to this point, consider: the Pacers' last eight opponents had a combined record of 261-154 (.629), not to mention one-third of the 27 players selected for Sunday's NBA All-Star Game. The Pacers have faced 31 opponents at .500 or better, more than any other team in the league.

    If they are to make up ground now, however, they must perform much better than they have to this point (12-10) against teams with losing records. There's no certainty they will reverse course but the Pacers at least have a real chance.

    O'Brien

    "It's going to be the team or teams that get hot down the stretch that might have a favorable schedule, that something clicks, that they get healthy at the right time and string a number of games together," said Coach Jim O'Brien. "Teams I have had in the past have been the teams that do that. We went 16-4 the last 20 games in Boston our first year there and we went 27-17 down the stretch with our Philadelphia team. I think, without a doubt, we will play our best basketball down the stretch. Whether that will be enough to get on the type of winning streak that will get us a solid playoff spot remains to be seen."

    Take a look at what awaits the competition:

    The Wizards have 15 road games, including a five-game Western Conference journey, and 16 games against above-.500 opponents;

    The Nets have 14 road games, also including a five-game Western swing, and 15 games against teams with winning records;
    The Sixers have 16 road games, including a three-game Western trip, and 14 against winning teams;
    The Hawks have 18 road games, beginning with a five-game trip immediately after the break, and 13 against winning teams;
    The Bulls have 16 games against winning teams;
    The Bucks have the fewest road games (12) but 13 against winning teams;
    The Bobcats (19-34) are tied with the Bucks in the standings but seven games behind in the adjusted standings, with 19 road games remaining and 14 against winning teams.



    Tinsley

    O'Neal

    There's also the prospect of regaining the services of at least one, if not both, injured starters after the break. Coach Jim O'Brien said he expects Jamaal Tinsley back "in a very quick manner" after the break. Though there's less certainty about Jermaine O'Neal, there's always hope.

    The Pacers are 8-12 without O'Neal and 5-9 without Tinsley. Without both, they're 2-5.

    "It is always very important to have everybody under contract healthy, especially when you’re talking about your starting point guard and an All-Star inside that your offense and defense are anchored around," O'Brien said. "So we are not the same basketball team without one of them, let alone two of them."

    The elephant in the room is this: would the Pacers really benefit from making the playoffs, considering the likelihood that a prohibitive first-round matchup against either Boston or Detroit awaits the teams in the bottom two spots of the East bracket?

    For nearly two decades, the playoffs have been a baseline expectation. That likely hasn't changed.

    "I think the organization is very much committed to winning," said O'Brien. "I am not happy about the record. We’ve played some good basketball. I thought we’d be a little further along defensively than we are now, but it seems like we’re doing some things lately, over the last two weeks, that I’ve seen signs of them turning the corner defensively. I’ve been very disappointed with the injury situation but that’s not anything I can control. But I feel good about where the organization wants to go, and I feel good about the opportunity to take them there."

    So, there is still hope...

    We may not like how they get there nor the odds that they'll likely get bounced in the first-round, but I'd still rather they reached their short-term goal than to miss it. Besides, the post-season is a different ball game. Teams that weren't expected to go far (i.e., the Cavs and Warriors last year) sometimes do pretty darn good.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 02-15-2008 at 06:13 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. IBJ: Pacers' troubles bad for city, too
    By Putnam in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 02-08-2008, 12:30 AM
  2. A Schedule Comparison: Pacers -vs- ???
    By NuffSaid in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 12-28-2007, 02:05 PM
  3. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 11-29-2007, 01:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •