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Thread: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    Ok, I was talking with some people over the past week and the topic came up that there are Pacers fans that just feel disconnected, disillusioned, apethetic, mad or downright disgusted with the franchise.

    Whether it be the brawl, the play on the floor, the management, the players, the losing, the off-court woes....Whatever

    This thread is for you.

    I have come to beleive that there are a good number of you out there that feel you have no voice and you hang in the background feeling as though there is no place for you to air your complaints.

    This thread is for you.

    This is a safe haven for you to pour out your feelings, get things off of your chest or just frankly rant like a loon (within forum rules of course).

    Now this thread is not to be used to gripe about a current loss or even a losing streak. This thread is for those of you who have either been longtime fans or even short term fans but you find yourself careing less and less each day about the team.

    Tell us why.

    Honestly, I want to know. Frankly there is even a small off shoot chance that your thoughts might make it to a low level Pacers P.R. person as we have been told that on occasion they skim the pages here.

    You are safe here, no one will ridicule you here.

    Now I do think it is appropriate to let people ask questions because if not then it is a blog and not an interactive conversation.

    But this can be the one time that you can let loose with why now you feel like you are disonnected with this team.

    Forum members I would ask that you please allow this space for people to vent thier feelings. Logic, as you and I might think it, does not have to apply to this emotional topic.

    Example if someone says "I don't feel like the team is making any changes" this is not the place to say that the team only has 4 people left over from the brawl and a new coaching staff.

    Please do not attempt to change anyones minds here, that is not the point of this thread.

    Ok, please have at it.

  2. #2
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    So...do we respond to others comments or is this a "Comment only" thread?

    Because I really like the basic concept of a comment only...Let It Out type colu...uh, thread.

    So here goes.........My frustration goes all the way back to the advent of those racecar noises and piped in drumbeats etc. Make the atmosphere conducive to cheering and the crowd will. But phoney hype ain't gonna get the job done. I've heard plenty of others complain about this same thing and yet it continues. Thus the crux of my antipathy. The team/marketing dept. seem totally disconnected from what the fans tell them. Are they using an out of town marketing group because they sure don't seem to understand the locals and what it takes to get them excited. This gaping chasm is made even wider (IMO) by what appears in the papers. I know TPTB want to appear calm and as if all is going according to plan but what they say appears to the average joe as a group that is committed to maintaining the status quo rather than improving our lot in life. We are asked to support a team that not only seems out of touch with the constituency but are apparently ambivalent toward the local fan.

    Let me know if that is NOT what you are looking for and I'll edit/delete it.
    Last edited by indygeezer; 02-13-2008 at 07:20 AM.
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    My only real frustration at this point is the way that the trade
    discussion with L.A. was handled. In hindsight (which the highly
    paid TBTP should have recognized at the time), it appears that
    they could have probably either gotten Odom, Brown and a
    1st rounder for J.O. or added Granger to J.O. and potentially
    extracted Bynum and Brown from them. Either would have
    put us in a better positon that where we are now.

    Other than that, I have no problem with what's going on. At this
    point, waiting until closer to the draft to attempt a deal of
    consequence including J.O. and/or others makes the most
    sense.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    i've been a fan of the Pacers since the Playoffs against the Magic back in the golden era of the Pacers....

    This year quite frankly has been the most frustrating year for me.

    Its a build up of many events taking place and nothing we do seems to make matters any better.

    I used to read any and everything that concerned the Pacers - nowadays don't even bother with it cause they all sound so manufactured and similar to previous comments I just got tired of it.

    There is no sense of hope for this current team. I feel as if this team has gone as far as it can and held to its cards too long which has caused the current fiasco we're dealing with.

    I don't really care about being an underdog as long as I see potential and hope for the future - right now I see a mediocre performance which will not be fixed with any trades that has been proposed and even though the team says they are going after playoffs - don't see any realistic reason for me to root them to be there just so they can get swept by another team in the first round.

    If by some miracle we do make the playoffs I feel as if it would just delay the process of fixing this hurting team and we'll have to go through another year of dismal team support and any sort of progress....

    EDIT: I'd also like to act that I just don't feel any connection to the players on the team - there is no player like Uncle Reggie that I can look up to and cheer!!!!
    Last edited by bellisimo; 02-13-2008 at 07:45 AM.

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    Eh, I'm too apathetic to comment right now. Maybe later. If not, just google "pacersdigest.com kegboy reasons why season tickets".

    Or not. I just checked and it doesn't work.
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    Or not. I just checked and it doesn't work.
    Nothing works anymore. It's all gone to hell!

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    International Counter bellisimo's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Nothing works anymore. It's all gone to hell!

    hopefully it'll get lost with a "return to sender" sticker so all that is wrong with the world will be fixed!

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    I have pretty tough standards. These were taught to me by IU basketball, the Landry Cowboys (when I was younger) and the ABA Pacers. These were teams that competed and they did it with class and did it the right way. And to be fair, the NBA Pacers were doing it that way for most of its existence.

    Right now the team that represents everything I was taught are the Colts. I don't really fault the Pacer franchise. I truly believe in my heart they did what they could and with the best interest of the fan and the city. The "lack of character" issue is what dishearted me. I weathered the brawl and the "character" issue and remained on-board. I believe this team tries and I will support that. But it is clearly not working and I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. The Sampson situation now at IU has put me on the same plain as the Pacers.

    The true question is "what do you do?" and my true answer is "I don't know anymore."
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    High Flyers ThA HoyA's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    So great that would mean less minutes for williams and less of a chance for graham.... Are we just storing wing players.... I understand we need backcourt help but it makes no sense to trade for a soft injury prone wing player especially with no kidd to pass him the ball

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    High Flyers ThA HoyA's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    I get really frustrated watching this team play because we have no shot at an nba title soon but the fact that they are not giving consistent and more minutes to williams and graham makes no sense these guys will be part of that title contending team put the out there if they mess up great they will learn from their mistakes we aren't going anywhere soon so why not develop these players so they are part of the core that leads us out of this misery

  11. #11

    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    My problem with the Pacers has more to do with the team not living up to the pre-season hype than anything else. Part of that has to do with injuries which I can live with, but a bigger part of the problem rests with the coaching staff/head coach. Mind you, I have alot of respect for coach O'Brien. I just don't think he puts the best players on the floor all the time. To that, I'm with ThA HoyA concerning Williams and Graham.

    You see, at the start of the season were were told three things:

    1) That Bird had found a shooter;

    2) That the players that were acquired were very athletic; and,

    3) That the product on the floor would be something the fans could be proud of.

    Well, the "shooter" turned out to be Kareem Rush, the most athletic player on the team IMO has played primarily in garbage time (longs stint to date has been 12 mins), and there's not much to be proud of when your team loses to some of the worse teams in the league by virtue of their overall record.

    I've always been of the opinion that you put your best five players forward at each position no matter if they're veterans or rookies. IMO, Graham and Williams should be seeing significant playing time IF we are to believe TPTB truly want to place the best product on the floor per items #2 and 3 above. Frankly, I don't see it, and this despite the fact that the Pacers' point totals have drastically increased from last season. In a more uptempo style, I can live with giving up alot of points. What I can't live with is not using some of your better players to help move your team forward even if they are rookies/sophomores especially at critical junctures in games (i.e., when fatigue is clearly a factor among your starters or your depth isn't there due to injuries). You'd think coach would move everybody up the rung, for example, when injuries play a factor, but instead what we tend to see is a player who comes off the bench and does good one game generally doesn't see any significant playing time aftewards when all we've heard is "players have to earn playing time". Well, IMO Stephen Graham, Shawn Williams and to a degree Andre Owens have all earned the right to play. But where are they? Parked on the bench for the most part.

    Now, to be fair I understand the rational behind NOT benching a $6M investment, i.e., Murphy for Ike, Dun for Rush/Williams (depending on the position Dun playes), or even Tinsley and/or Quis for Deiner or Owens, but don't feed me the "best product on the floor" bull if you're not going to give it to me! IMO, I believe two of the team's better players are or have spent a significant amount of time sitting on the pine. Excuse the pun, but as a fan that bites me right in the ***.

  12. #12
    Banned Big Smooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    I've been a diehard Pacers fan since 1986 when I would listen to the rare game I could get on the radio in NE Indiana...it's tough being a fan of a team you could almost never watch (no cable) or listen to. I loved following the team in those days of mediocrity and so 1994 was such sweet, sweet nectar to my soul, almost better than a beer (although I could not legally drink at the time).

    I've lived and died with these guys for the better part of 20 years but starting with last season, I've grown incredibly apathetic towards the Blue & Gold to the point where I question if I've even still a true fan of the team. I cannot bring myself to watch a full game...I catch bits and pieces of the games but usually end up just checking the score online later.

    It's tough to put a finger on what exactly is causing this....I don't think it is purely W/L related as I've been able to be excited about fairly average teams before. I think it is the loss of hope. I really have lost hope in the P's turning this around anytime soon. I don't feel like the goal of the organization is to play for titles anymore, the goal now seems to be winning maybe 40-42 games and securing that 8th seed. Which isn't completely new because Donnie has always been pretty clear about always wanting to be playoff competitive while rebuilding/reloading/whatever you call it. But right now, I just don't see the vision being there from management. Bird is so fond of drafting projects from Europe....why not trade up and take a chance on a young stud more ready to play? Sure it doesn't always work out (Jon Bender) but...I just don't see the vision there. If I saw a vision and I could see the light at the end of the tunnel, I'd jump on board more.

    I don't know if it makes sense or not but all I know is I miss caring about the Pacers and I hope the flame comes back.
    Last edited by Big Smooth; 02-13-2008 at 06:20 PM.

  13. #13
    woman without a team
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    I could comment, but I wouldn't be saying anything different than what I've said before; therefor, I won't repeat myself.

    For those of you who don't know why I'm disenfranchised his initals are L B.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    I haven't really posted on the Pacers board this year. It's weird - I still watch every game (when I can), and read what people have to say. But something is different. It's not that I don't care.

    It begins with management. And quite frankly, my beef ends with management.

    I don't think anyone has a plan. I don't think anyone has truly sat down and come up with a logical plan, that EVERYONE is on board with.

    Instead, I get this feeling as though there are no long term plans. There's just a series of knee-jerk reactions. Short-term reactions, that have short-term results. Sure, you can pick up a guy like Kareem Rush. But I'm not stupid. Don't tell me he's going to be the big difference maker we've been waiting on all these years. He's a short term solution at a spot we needed help at. That's it. And the same can be said for many guys on our team.

    There is just no long-term plans in place. Why get a coach like Jim O'Brien when the team is not made to play that style of play? Because he was the easiest short-term answer. Why get a guy like Kareem Rush as the "best shooter in the league" to play on our team? Because he was the easiest answer. Why keep a guy like JO on the team in our current state of affairs? Because he was the easiest answer.

    It's at the point where it doesn't even seem like we're moving up or down. We just keep moving sideways. And to me, that's even more frustrating than moving down. I can take the moving down, if I know we've committed ourselves to rebuilding. At least I can take solace in knowing that there is a long-term plan. But this right now...whatever we have going on here...it just seems like a bunch of guys that were put here through a series of "lateral" moves.

    I could post my thoughts more often in relation to this Pacers team. But I just don't care to at this point.

    Maybe I've found the reason behind what makes the counting thread so special. It always represents some sort of movement...which is more than I can say for the Pacers. So until I see some sort of effort to get this team moving in SOME direction, I'll stick with the counting thread.

  15. #15
    '12 PD Sunshiner awardee Kemo's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    My basic gripes are as follows.........


    First off... Tinsley needs to be gone... He's a headcase , who cannot be depended upon to lead this team...
    Any trade deal that is made , if it doesn't include Tinsley in it, then the problem will NEVER be recitfied , as long as he is here... period..


    I like JO alot, but if he can't come back healthy and be a difference maker after the post season... we need to cut our losses and try and trade him ...

    Another thing that bites my a$$ is how we have players like Graham ,and Diogu , who if they are lucky only get garbage minutes... I think these guys should at very least get 8 to 10 consecutive minutes in a game , to see if they are gonna produce for us that particular game..... IT sucks not seeing these guys even play but once every month or so..

    Also I think it would be a smart move to secure the re-signing rights of Diener and Rush after this season... Rush makes a very good backup sg , and Diener an EXCELLENT pg backup , and in my opinion possibly our future starting pg... I really like Diener... he is a very good piece to our organization.. as is Granger and Dunleavy... I honestly would rather see T.D. start as pg over Tinsley ANY day.. just look at the assist to turnover rate of each player.. for starters, that should give u a lil bit of an example why he ownes Tinsley as our starting pg.. lol

    As I said before it doesnt matter who gets traded , as long as Tinsley is still here.. all trades are in vain.. cause the cancer of jamaal would remain...
    Last edited by Kemo; 02-14-2008 at 04:24 AM.
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey View Post
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    I haven't really posted on the Pacers board this year. It's weird - I still watch every game (when I can), and read what people have to say. But something is different. It's not that I don't care.

    It begins with management. And quite frankly, my beef ends with management.

    I don't think anyone has a plan. I don't think anyone has truly sat down and come up with a logical plan, that EVERYONE is on board with.

    Instead, I get this feeling as though there are no long term plans. There's just a series of knee-jerk reactions. Short-term reactions, that have short-term results. Sure, you can pick up a guy like Kareem Rush. But I'm not stupid. Don't tell me he's going to be the big difference maker we've been waiting on all these years. He's a short term solution at a spot we needed help at. That's it. And the same can be said for many guys on our team.

    There is just no long-term plans in place. Why get a coach like Jim O'Brien when the team is not made to play that style of play? Because he was the easiest short-term answer. Why get a guy like Kareem Rush as the "best shooter in the league" to play on our team? Because he was the easiest answer. Why keep a guy like JO on the team in our current state of affairs? Because he was the easiest answer.

    It's at the point where it doesn't even seem like we're moving up or down. We just keep moving sideways. And to me, that's even more frustrating than moving down. I can take the moving down, if I know we've committed ourselves to rebuilding. At least I can take solace in knowing that there is a long-term plan. But this right now...whatever we have going on here...it just seems like a bunch of guys that were put here through a series of "lateral" moves.

    I could post my thoughts more often in relation to this Pacers team. But I just don't care to at this point.

    Maybe I've found the reason behind what makes the counting thread so special. It always represents some sort of movement...which is more than I can say for the Pacers. So until I see some sort of effort to get this team moving in SOME direction, I'll stick with the counting thread.
    THAT'S IT! I think you've just summed up EXACTLY what's at the core of why so many fans - myself included - feel so disjointed! Even I've said that most of the changes the roster has gone through has been the result of weeding out bad character players and basically taking what they could get, but therein lays the problem: It's all been patch-work! with little feel for a real direction. This "patch-work" roster movement has been compounded IMO with TPTB feeding the fans all this hype and yet setting the bar so low as far as their goals on the season are concerned.

    Now, understand I get it! I know that when you've gone through so many downturns as the Pacers have had these last 3-4 yrs since the Brawl, you don't want to make any outlandish promises you really can't keep. BUT....

    In setting such goals you should at least have a real plan - a measuring stick bywhich the fans can gauge real progress. Right now, I don't feel as if I can really say this team can or will move forward as currently constructed. I hope they can (provided JO and Tinsley primarily return healthy after the Break), but right now I just don't see them even achieving their near-term goals. And that's disturbing to me. I'm still hopeful, but that's just it! Instead of merely holding out for hope, I really want to believe that this team really is capable of getting there on their own. Bottom line: I really don't "believe" right now. I'm just hopeful...
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 02-16-2008 at 05:49 PM.

  17. #17
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey View Post
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    I haven't really posted on the Pacers board this year. It's weird - I still watch every game (when I can), and read what people have to say. But something is different. It's not that I don't care.

    It begins with management. And quite frankly, my beef ends with management.

    I don't think anyone has a plan. I don't think anyone has truly sat down and come up with a logical plan, that EVERYONE is on board with.

    Instead, I get this feeling as though there are no long term plans. There's just a series of knee-jerk reactions. Short-term reactions, that have short-term results. Sure, you can pick up a guy like Kareem Rush. But I'm not stupid. Don't tell me he's going to be the big difference maker we've been waiting on all these years. He's a short term solution at a spot we needed help at. That's it. And the same can be said for many guys on our team.

    There is just no long-term plans in place. Why get a coach like Jim O'Brien when the team is not made to play that style of play? Because he was the easiest short-term answer. Why get a guy like Kareem Rush as the "best shooter in the league" to play on our team? Because he was the easiest answer. Why keep a guy like JO on the team in our current state of affairs? Because he was the easiest answer.

    It's at the point where it doesn't even seem like we're moving up or down. We just keep moving sideways. And to me, that's even more frustrating than moving down. I can take the moving down, if I know we've committed ourselves to rebuilding. At least I can take solace in knowing that there is a long-term plan. But this right now...whatever we have going on here...it just seems like a bunch of guys that were put here through a series of "lateral" moves.

    I could post my thoughts more often in relation to this Pacers team. But I just don't care to at this point.

    Maybe I've found the reason behind what makes the counting thread so special. It always represents some sort of movement...which is more than I can say for the Pacers. So until I see some sort of effort to get this team moving in SOME direction, I'll stick with the counting thread.
    Very well said!
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  18. #18
    Member NorCal_Pacerfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    Hmmm. I guess I'll chime in. I haven't posted much at all lately as I've been super busy in RL, but I still follow the games and I try to watch as often as possible.

    I guess I'm a bit apathetic at the moment because I feel the Pacers are stuck in a grey area at the moment between rebuilding and trying to get to the playoffs. As much as I appreciated seeing Tinsley perform well earlier this season, I think he should be moved. I've thought this and posted about it many times in the past. As for JO, well, I think he wants to be moved. I don't blame players for wanting to be on a top tier team, but it's not a birth right. I think JO feels like he deserves to be on a better team or something. I think he's a solid player, and his defense was outstanding this year. Great blocker and taking charges all the time. But I think once he realized the team wasn't were he wanted it to be, he's kinda not 100% mentally with the team maybe - I don't know, I can't speak for JO. But I guess I'm ready to see him gone too. I think some players get this "grass is greener" mentality, esp when they see other top players getting traded to contenders, like Garnet, or Gasol, etc. As for management, I think they either needed to trade for a big name or frankly tear it down and rebuild.

    Two other things. One, I'm kinda getting tired of the NBA a bit. I love watching great basketball and great games, but maybe I just needed a break from it. I actually enjoy listening to the Pacers announcers heaps more than most of the national ones these days. This is actually the first year in prob 6 that I'm not watching all-star weekend at all. I'm not a huge Stern fan either. I was pretty peeved last year when Amare wasn't allowed to play in game 6 against the Spurs. (rule schmool)

    Finally, I'm kinda rooting for Portland as a rebuilding effort and I'm probably moving to Portland soon, so I'm planning on attending some Portland game - something I haven't been able to do with Indiana unfortunately. Pacers will always be my numero uno, but I'm looking forward to being able to go to some games and rooting for the home team.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    I will echo what everyone else is saying. The big problem is that there has clearly been no real plan since the brawl year. After the finals team, lots of people griped about the fact that Donnie tore the team down to rebuild, but as a fan you could see the future. Bender, Harrington, etc....you could see a light. There is no light now. We don't have the pieces to acquire young talent. We don't have the pieces to acquire vets with a chance to win. We have nothing, and the thing that chaps me is that management really doesn't seem to care.

    It may only be my impression, but management seems totally reactive rather than proactive. When the fans boo someone enough, they eventually get trade. It is ridiculous. Anyone that knows the game of basketball could watch Tinsley four or five years ago and know what he is, so why in the hell is he still the person that we have to hang our hat on. And for management to give us Deiner as the only backup option. What is going on here.

    Personally, I have never like JO. He whines, and he doesn't back up his talk. I won't be sorry to see him go. On the other hand, I don't hate the guy like I do Tinsley. I think that on the right team, JO can be a part of a championship. In fact, if he were healthy, I think we would have beaten the Pistons a few years ago in the ECF.

    As idiotic as this sounds, I feel like the Knicks have more future potential to turn things around that we do. I just don't see where we can go from here. I know that I could support a losing team with a philosophy, but we have none.

    One more thing, Obrien's chuck it up there offense is not a philosophy that is going to take us anywhere. It only works with an ***-kicking superstar, of which there are like 5 in the league and we don't have one.

    The fact that Tinsley, etc. show as little self control and discipline off the court as on, makes us go from extraordinarily frustrating to just embarrassing. Were the Jailblazers really worse? I don't think so.

  20. #20

    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    I loved the late 90s teams, those guys always seemed so professional and there was always a sense they were going to compete. I miss that.

    But my real rant is for the '03-'04 team that was one of the greatest defensive teams I've ever seen. We were the best in the NBA. We were going to win a championship, if not that year the next one or the next one after that. Losing to Detroit hurt, but our team was so good we were bound to contend for it all the next year. Then... the brawl, the huge unfair suspensions. We never recovered... But it didnt have to be that way. This team couldve stayed together. We didn't HAVE to trade Ron, we didn't HAVE to trade SJax or AL before him. We didn't HAVE to take back horrible contracts and lesser talent in Ike MDjr and Murph. But we did, because our fan base (which was near the top of the attendance in the NBA) cried out for change and "character guys" , or at least that is what TPTB thought our fan base wanted. So look at where we are now. Character guys and last in attendence =/

    I remember when Ron was asking for a trade then rescinded and wanted to stay. I wanted so bad for them to work it out, because I knew this team was headed to years and years of sub par mediocrity and horrible basketball. Same thing with Sjax. Sure I don't like the thuglife gangster crap. But first and formost this is about basketball. These guys aren't running for President or mayor. These guys we got today don't have near the passion or the drive that team had. I think all the crap this team has gone through along with the new players we brought in to replace the real basketball warriors we used to have has really killed the competitive spirit for the franchise and has brought on a general malaise.

    Bring back the good ol days (late 90s) and if not that, then at least bring back some players who really show some effort and competiveness. (03-04) What happened to guys being so frustrated with a loss they would break a camera? or at least show some emotion and make a stand and show that winning and losing really matter to themn and its not just about gettin paid, its about competing.

    There, I feel better now. Now back to our regular schedualed suckiness for years and years.
    Last edited by PaceBalls; 02-17-2008 at 04:21 PM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    I can't or won't get behind the team until I see some type of vision from the front office. I don't like the losing and I don't like the "character" issues the team has had, but those issues wouldn't drive me away. The dishonesty and ineptness of the front office has.

    I'm not certain who is to blame - DW, Bird, or both. I do know that I have felt a distinctly different vibe to the way the team has been run since Bird arrived. And I haven't liked it. I wouldn't call myself a Walsh apologist. I always felt he was to slow in making a change. It could be argued that the Pacers would have a title by now if he would have been more agreesive in the past. The one thing I was confident of though was that when he made a move it would be a good one. I also usually agreed with the moves as well - even the trading of AD and the drafting of Bender. Maybe that shows what I know.

    Since Bird has been here the only move I can remember supporting was the trade for Marquis. I admit that I hated the hiring of Bird from the start. And I certainly didn't like the first major move after he arrived - lying to JO, firing IT, and hiring his buddy RC. I wasn't an IT fan. I just didn't think that lying to the "franchise" player you just signed is the best first move a GM can make. I don't think it sets a good tone for the team.

    The two moves that have upset me the most are the trade of Artest and the GS trade. I have no idea who is reponsible for them. I think we have been told it was DW. I'm not sure I believe it. They certainly didn't feel like DW trades to me. Regardless they were both disasters. Trading for Peja in the last year of his contract was idiotic Thats not hindsight - many felt that way at the time. The GS trade was even worse. They lost talent, acquired longer,bigger contracts, and the best player in the deal plays the same position as our only two promising youg players. How much stupider can you get. I can't describe how stupid the deal was without getting upset. To make matters worse, the deal was supposed to get players that fit RCs style better. A coach that should have been fired the year before and would be fired at the end of the season. Now there is vision for you!!!!!!!! The true point of the deal was to get better citizens. To appease the fans. It certainly wasn't to make a better basketball team - immediatley or in the future.

    There are many other head scratching moves that have been made. All because the front office has no idea what they are trying to accomplish. I hear people say you risk becoming the Hawks by trying to rebuild. We are the Hawks!!!!!!! The Hawks have sucked because of inept managment. Passing on Chris Paul to draft yet another forward? I guess thats worse than acquiring Dun when you have DG and drafted SW, but both show a lack of vision and team building.

    I won't be able to get behind the team until I see they are trying to do something other than fool the fans in to believing. Retread coaches and mediocre "good" guys won't do it for me. I'm tired of being deceived.
    Last edited by rm1369; 02-17-2008 at 05:17 PM.

  22. #22
    Order more copier toner. Haggard's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleWTF View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I loved the late 90s teams, those guys always seemed so professional and there was always a sense they were going to compete. I miss that.

    But my real rant is for the '03-'04 team that was one of the greatest defensive teams I've ever seen. We were the best in the NBA. We were going to win a championship, if not that year the next one or the next one after that. Losing to Detroit hurt, but our team was so good we were bound to contend for it all the next year. Then... the brawl, the huge unfair suspensions. We never recovered... But it didnt have to be that way. This team couldve stayed together. We didn't HAVE to trade Ron, we didn't HAVE to trade SJax or AL before him. We didn't HAVE to take back horrible contracts and lesser talent in Ike MDjr and Murph. But we did, because our fan base (which was near the top of the attendance in the NBA) cried out for change and "character guys" , or at least that is what TPTB thought our fan base wanted. So look at where we are now. Character guys and last in attendence =/

    I remember when Ron was asking for a trade then rescinded and wanted to stay. I wanted so bad for them to work it out, because I knew this team was headed to years and years of sub par mediocrity and horrible basketball. Same thing with Sjax. Sure I don't like the thuglife gangster crap. But first and formost this is about basketball. These guys aren't running for President or mayor. These guys we got today don't have near the passion or the drive that team had. I think all the crap this team has gone through along with the new players we brought in to replace the real basketball warriors we used to have has really killed the competitive spirit for the franchise and has brought on a general malaise.

    Bring back the good ol days (late 90s) and if not that, then at least bring back some players who really show some effort and competiveness. (03-04) What happened to guys being so frustrated with a loss they would break a camera? or at least show some emotion and make a stand and show that winning and losing really matter to themn and its not just about gettin paid, its about competing.
    .
    That sums it up for me.
    It was more the way the team fell and tore apart
    well said
    Haggard's Blog: Can't Buy a Basket. Covering the highs and lows of the NBL

  23. #23
    Member themayhem87's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    If we get vince carter my feelings toward this team will take a hit. I've seen some people on here defend getting vince...but why would anyone want a ballhog who is notorious for taking games off and who would render any developement of our young talent (the little talent we have). Not to mention hes getting paid huge money until what...2012?? Bird be smart and play your young talent and take losses if you have too. Draft wisely and good things will finally happen to this team. And do not trade danny granger

  24. #24
    dennaB Twes's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    The Pacers are a rudderless vessel, slamming against the rocks on a barren sea.
    Last edited by Twes; 02-18-2008 at 03:35 PM.

  25. #25
    Fear my small avatar Gyron's Avatar
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    Default Re: A thread for the disenfranchised Pacers fans....

    The Pacers were one of the few things that I held onto from my move from Indy to Charlotte.

    They were a way I could always stay connected to the state of Indiana where I grew up. Ever since the "Brawl" and "Reggie's Retirement", I have found myself less and less interested in the team because of the sad state it is in. I still get on PD EVERY day to heck out the happeneings of the team. I still watch the team every single chance I get and I always go to the games when they come to Charlotte.

    But the longer the team spirals out of control, the less I feel the connection to the team.

    My wife has been very supportive of my addiction to the Pacers and even she has recently started questioning why I continue to support a team that just seems like its filled with a bunch of thugs and players that don't care. That shows to me what the casual fan that doesn't follow the team closely sees in the team and it bothers me.

    My brother recently moved to Charlotte from Indy as well and he's also a life long Pacers fan as well. We both have toddler son's and he asked me the other day if we should consider switching our alliances to the Bobcats in Charlotte so that our two very young kids have a more positive view on a team and don't have to hear the kind of things that have come from the Pacers lately. It also comes with the added benefit that they are local and we can take the kids to the games when they are old enough to understand and enjoy the games whenever we want.

    I told him the Pacers would always be my team through thick and thin, but I would go to the Bobcats games with him and I would support getting our kids into the local team so they could enjoy it. The only thing I hate about the idea is I'm even thinking about supporting a team that Bob Johnson owns. The guy just irks me. I'm sure he's a nice enough guy, but the things I hear about him around town here and the way he runs the PR part of the Bobcats team in Charlotte just makes me dislike him.

    So while I am still hardcore Pacer fan, I think I may soon be supporting a second NBA team for the first time in my life. It maybe the first time I'll ever purchase an NBA item that's not tied directly to the Pacers........Jeebus help me(a little Simpson's reference for you).......

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