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Thread: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

  1. #26
    Edge of Reason GO!!!!!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    I have been following the Pacer franchise since the 90's and to be honest i don't know what it is but this season has been one of the worst for my care factor, maybe it's my new job, maybe it's the new coach, maybe it's a oft injured O'neal, maybe it's one game on espn all year

    i don't like taking and we have one to many games to make it worth while, if we had a genuine shot at top 3 pick I'd say ok what ever, but really, do we, n are we sure it hasen't been traded away allready

    there are to many teams that suck more then we do....

    i'm more intrested in seeing of out bad salerys and hoping the PTB do as a trade that has a promising future... trade foster plus someone to the Bulls for one of there Guards who knows... I need motivation to get back n start loving our team again, i mean after beating portland we are what 21-30..

    I don't know....


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  2. #27
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    It's down right dumb to root for your team to lose!
    I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but in the NBA, you're rewarded for losing. It's never dumb to root for being rewarded. You have to look beyond the season and at the future of the franchise. I'd gladly sacrafice a 1st round sweep of this team if it increases the odds of the Pacers landing an impact player, which a top-8 pick would do.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Root to win, expect to lose.

    Pretty much been my season motto since August.

    But worrying about draft position (#5 vs. #10 vs. #14) with more than 30 games left is silly at best. It's like trying to predict the playoff seeding in early February, i.e., mildly entertaining, based on very little, and probably an unproductive enterprise.
    It's never too early to pay attention to such matters, whether it be the playoffs or draft position. Wins and loses now count the same in the standings as wins and loses during the finals weeks of the season. Besides, it can help make even the most uninteresting of games at least somewhat interesting, and that my friend is never a bad thing.

  4. #29
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I don't think losing on purpose is the goal, but right now you need to start looking at the future and that means playing younger players more mins than they would normally get.

    You can't have Williams sitting on the bench watching a game and expect him to get better by it, so he needs to play over an older player who may already be playing better.

    What does making the playoffs do exactly? It's gonna extend your season by 4 games and lower your draft pick. Wow, what an accomplishment.

    Let me know when they hand out rings for getting swept in the first round. If you don't win, then it's a failed season and everything should be examined on why you didn't win.l

    If it's a lack of talent then you try to get more. If it's an X's and O's thing, you get a new coach or you get a new strategy.

    The definition of crazy is trying the same thing and expecting different results, and that's exactly what's going on.

    Making it to the playoffs for 18 straight years did what exactly? Nothing. It's a good * to read at the bottom of the media guide. Mediocrity is the worst thing in sports. We've celebrated being mediocre for way too long and it's put us in this position. Instead of trying to get to the top we just want to be mediocre again.
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  5. #30

    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    just because somebody is listed as top 7 talent doesn't mean they'll stick...at the rate mayo and ej are going, it is very likely both could fall out of the top 7. pluse teams reach on bigs all the time in the top 10; taking top 20 talent top 10...also, i don't see thabeet on that list and bayless sure as hell is NOT the same as chase budinger! lawson is much better than augustin...same with arthur compared to love...and a team will draft lopez top 7 most likely...so to say those 6-7 impact players will be picked 1-7 really is making a very bold prediction...

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Anyone who thinks Derrick Rose is a franchise player is going to be sorely disappointed with his 8 points 5 assists in the NBA.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
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    Anyone who thinks Derrick Rose is a franchise player is going to be sorely disappointed with his 8 points 5 assists in the NBA.
    You're crazy.

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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    I think Rose is overrated. He's not even close to 6'4", he's not a good shooter, and his assist-to-turnover ratio is disappointing. He's a freak athlete, and I think the WOW! factor that brings to the table has caused people to overrated him. I think he's a lot closer to a healthy Jay Williams than a Chris Paul. Of course he's still just a college freshman, so he has plenty of time to fix his flaws.

  9. #34
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I don't think losing on purpose is the goal, but right now you need to start looking at the future and that means playing younger players more mins than they would normally get.

    You can't have Williams sitting on the bench watching a game and expect him to get better by it, so he needs to play over an older player who may already be playing better.
    So far so good. I agree with all of this.

    What does making the playoffs do exactly? It's gonna extend your season by 4 games and lower your draft pick. Wow, what an accomplishment.
    Nope. It teaches your players to win.

    Imagine if Reggie hadn't been in the playoffs in 92 or 93. You think we'd have gotten to the ECFs in '94?

    Yeah, we need more talent. But we also need the guys we have to take winning seriously. And tanking out of the playoffs isn't the way to do that.
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  10. #35
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Playoffs. . .There's always good ball players out there that you can pick up in the second round or even undrafted
    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Draft pick >>>>>>>>>> Getting swept in the first round by Boston/Detroit

    The only way I want to make the playoffs is as a #6 seed or higher. Not saying we would win the series, but it might at least be semi-competitive.

  12. #37

    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    I see a number of posts here where some don't care to see the Pacers play anymore because they aren't winning... and others want them not to win to secure a better draft pick.

    Win or lose... the day the Pacers decide to no longer play to win to get into the playoffs is the day I stop following them and switch to another team.

  13. #38
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Draft pick >>>>>>>>>> Getting swept in the first round by Boston/Detroit
    Why?

    I mean, we're getting a draft pick either way. Is, say, three spots really worth losing playoff experience?
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  14. #39
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Looking at the Pacers season from this perspective, the best thing for the Pacers is to take the last spot in the playoffs. They will still get the same caliber player they would get finishing 7th.
    You spent a lot of time talking about the pitalls of the draft but you left out something in your conclusion:
    What exactly would be gained by making the playoffs?


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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
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    Anyone who thinks Derrick Rose is a franchise player is going to be sorely disappointed with his 8 points 5 assists in the NBA.
    I think you will be eating these words when he turns pro. That cat is a gamer!

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Why?

    I mean, we're getting a draft pick either way. Is, say, three spots really worth losing playoff experience?

    This is the problem with your thinking-

    Playoff experience for this team???

    Lord help us if we're seeing anything remotely like the team we hope will someday be contending again.

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  17. #42
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Why?

    I mean, we're getting a draft pick either way. Is, say, three spots really worth losing playoff experience?
    I agree with this. The draft is an inexact science, and it's dangerous to pin your hopes there. The most dangerous thing for a young team is to develop a losing mentality. So I think they should go for the playoffs, let the chips fall where they may, and do your homework in the draft to maximize the value of the pick you have. Push comes to shove, you could try to make a deal to move up.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    I think some of you are grossly under-rating the importance of playoff experience. I would imagine there are a few players on the current roster that will be part of the future. I want them to get playoff experience. Losing begets losing.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Its the what comes first the chicken or the egg.

    How can your team get better if the continue to draft in the middle of the first round each year.

    I want a championship & to get one I feel that the Pacers need an impact player. Its a hell of a lot easier to get one at 7 than it is at 15.

    I also realize that the draft is a crap shoot. I'll take that chance that a Shawn Marion, Paul Pierce, Karl Malone or Reggie Miller might slip to me at 7. The odds are they'll be long gone by 15.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    There's something else to consider:
    The goal of the Indiana Pacers in the Walsh era is to make the playoffs. Anything else is gravy but nothing must jeopardize that main and overriding goal of making the playoffs.

    If this team gets into the playoffs there will be a GIANT sigh of relief AND satisfaction coming from the ivory tower at Conseco.

    Making the playoffs in the east should NOT be considered 'satisfying'... but it would be.

    Anyone rooting for changes and player movement better not also be rooting for the playoffs.

    As I said elsewhere, I root for the team to win individual games BUT losses don't hurt at all. ....BUT.... I do NOT root for this team to make the playoffs. The only way I want to see this team making the playoffs is IF they make a real push toward them. I want them FIGHTING to get into the playoffs, not backing in because they were a little less inept than the 9th place team.

    In fact, that would be the only experience that counts in my book. A team that backs into the playoffs isn't getting the proper experience anyway. They need to learn how important it is to WIN, fight, scratch, and claw their way up the mountain and into the playoffs. Then it might mean something.

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  21. #46
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Will, I understand your point but at 15 you have to hope that the guys before you are picking the misses. At 7 you get to choose from that group, not just take what is left over.

    While the talent at that point seems closer to being even, I don't think it will turn out that way. Right now if Love and Augustin went off the board and the Pacers were left with Budinger I'd feel pretty horrible about it.

    I'm getting tired of the notion that anyone who wants us to get a high draft pick is just praying for a savior. It's not just about hoping for a franchise player. You can still get a very talented piece and they don't have to be a franchise player. We. Need. Talent.
    I agree completely. I will not root for a tank. Play to win, that's the lesson you learn. As players you gain nothing from playing to lose. Fight the adversity and do what you can to the end.

    But from a fan/GM view a higher pick is like getting more cash. MAYBE it doesn't buy you much more as Will suggests, but it might. At the very least if you think 7=15 then TRADE DOWN, still get the same caliber talent and add perhaps a decent 2nd rounder or the future right to swap draft spots, etc.

    What really fuels my feeling on it this year is the jump between East 8th seed and missing the playoffs due to the East/West disparity.

    Also keep in mind that you are improving your SECOND round pick position too, and in that spot you could see a couple of gems go off the board in that difference of 6-7 spots.

    Losing begets losing.
    I agree with Goldfoot and Anthem, et al on the "set a winning tone" and "get playoff experience and HUNGER". Getting swept sucks. Players don't like that feeling, more so than just missing the playoffs. They will have tasted that 2nd season and will certainly want more.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 02-11-2008 at 01:33 AM.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    I think some of you are grossly under-rating the importance of playoff experience. I would imagine there are a few players on the current roster that will be part of the future. I want them to get playoff experience. Losing begets losing.
    I'm starting to swing back in this direction. I want Danny to get as much experience as possible, and I doubt he's the only player on this team who will be here when things start getting good again. I'm resigned to having about the 16th pick and being done with it. Let's go for the extra time played.

    If I felt we were destined to land, say, the 8th pick I'd probably stick with the "go get the talent!" I've been posting and talking about lately. But the more I've thought it over tonight and the more I've talked about it with a couple of people tonight, the more convinced I am that that's just not where this team is headed. If they do dive, then that's good in regards to talent. But I think we're going to see a small comeback that will land us in the 8th or 7th (God, more of that) seed. In that scenario, failure to make the playoffs is probably at best a 5 pick jump up the draft, and at that point I'd probably encourage them to go for the playoffs above all else. In fact, I'm not worried about it one way or the other because they will not tank, nor should they.

  23. #48
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    And it's not just playoffs, it's also winning in the race to the playoffs. As bad as the East is, the Pacers are now positioned where they can't afford to keep losing at the pace they have the last month or so if they want to make the playoffs.

    So either they are going to dial in or at least start beating up on weaker teams in a few weeks, either way they would be gaining confidence and hopefully some casual fan interest.

    Right now they could go .500 the rest of the way and still be well under .500 overall. What that means is they wouldn't be backing in to the playoffs. Their chances to beat a team like Boston or Detroit might still feel slim, but at least they would have gotten turned in the right direction.

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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    My guess is that JO and Tinsley come back within a week or so of the all-star break, the team bats about .500 or slightly above (by a game or 3), and then ends the season on a 5-2 or 6-1 surge to bring them into 8th seed territory.

  25. #50
    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better for the Pacers, high draft pick or playoffs?

    Furthermore, it took Reggie six seasons before he led the Pacers past the first round. The first two he saw no post season and then four straight first round exits.


    The Pacers are only 3.5 games out of the sixth seed.

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