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Thread: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

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    Member Evan_The_Dude's Avatar
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    Default What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Earlier this season I made a "Realistic Discussion about Jermaine O'Neal" thread where I couldn't figure out what should happen with Jermaine. Not, without a doubt is the best time to make a move and here's why:

    We have the Lakers to thank for maximizing Jermaine's value. By getting Pau Gasol, they added a piece that would help them compete with the Spurs. Seeing what the Lakers did, the Suns must have seen their roster and their failures to reach the finals, and realized they too need to do what it takes to match up with the Spurs. They went an got Shaq. Utah is already in good position with Boozer, and the Blazers have Aldridge with Oden coming back next season. Even the Warriors made a half-assed attempt at getting bigger by signing C-Webb.

    So, what's the remaining team that's almost been there but doesn't quite have what it takes? The Dallas Mavericks. Even though they're tied for first in the West with the Phoenix Suns, they know more than anybody else that the best record means nothing. They know come playoff time, they're going to need someone inside besides Dirk (who isn't much of an inside player) that can get baskets when the rest of the offense is shut down. Dallas has Erick Dampier and DeSagana Diop that rebound and block shots, but on the offensive end you hardly get anything from them.

    I thought of a deal today that makes a heck of a lot of sense for both Dallas and Indiana. Here's the deal, read my reasoning after before you go crazy:



    First question I asked myself, if I was Dallas would I really want to trade Josh Howard? My answer was in most circumstances, no. But to get some you have to give some. While in this deal I'd take a slight downgrade at the SF position (very slight), I'd get a huge upgrade at the center position with O'Neal. Dallas gives up Josh Howard, who can Shoot, Create, Defend, and is capable of being a go to guy. They get Danny Granger who can shoot, is getting better at getting to the basket, and can defend and block shots. All they really lose is the creativity and the capability of a go to guy. Something they already have in Jason Terry and Dirk Nowitzki. Dallas also gets rid of Dampiers 4 remaining years on his deal in exchange for O'Neal's 2 years. Worst case if it doesn't work in 2 years, they lose Jermaine, and can afford to pay Danny (who's contract is also up in 2 years).

    What I do have to mention though is that I'd offer them Shawne before Danny. I think they'd be better off with Shawne than Danny too. Because in their style they need to get up and down the court. Danny isn't the best in making a decision with the ball when running the court. Shawne is much better at that. It all depends on what Dallas would rather have. Travis Diener is involved because they're not going to take Jamaal Tinsley, no, they're not. But he's showing that he can be a legitimate backup and has had some good games. He's also good at keeping the ball moving, something Dallas likes to do. Of course with Harris leaving, Jason Terry would go back to his natural position at point guard. That brings either Eddie Jones or Jerry Stackhouse out as the starting 2-guard.

    Question number two if I'm Indiana would I want to trade Danny Granger? For Josh Howard? Yes! Here's why:

    From the Jim O'Brien show [taken from Unclebucks thread about O'Brien discussing Pacers roster needs]:
    1) they need defensive toughness. he said his greatest disappointment about this team is the lack of defensive toughness to play defense for 48 minutes. It isn't that the players don't try, but they lack a certain toughness that is needed on the defensive end.

    2) that one offensive player - perimeter player that you can just give the ball to late in games, when the defense is set, when they have scouted you - that one player who can create a shot when things break down, when the shot clock is winding down. Pacers don't have that. OB mentioned Kobe and Paul Pierce type of player.


    Josh Howard isn't Kobe or Pierce, but we're not going to get Kobe or Pierce. Josh Howard can be a go to guy and he can create. He's a tough defensive hustler. Devin Harris is probably the fastest point guard in the NBA, and he's pretty decent defensively. He too can create, and he gets to the rim very quickly and is improving his shooting percentages. Erick Dampier while having a bad contract, his contract isn't 19 million. Getting him makes it easier to afford to lose Jeff Foster or David Harrison (or both).

    Jim O'Brien is obviously here trying to win. As much as we want to rebuild, we're probably not going to see that happen the way we're talking about doing it. This is a deal that at least gives both teams something they can use (provided Jermaine can come back before the deadline).

    As I said, the idea of us getting Josh Howard sounds crazy at first, but on the Dallas end, if you can put Danny Granger in his spot and Jermaine O'Neal up front with Dirk, would you say no to that deal at this point when you see what your Western Conference competition has done? I doubt it.

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    Member Isaac's Avatar
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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Deal, deal deal. Larry would do this so fast, Cuban's head would spin. I doubt they'd take it, but my god this would be a great trade for us.

    Devin Harris/Mike Dunleavy/Josh Howard is a very versitale wing combo.

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    I'd do it. Dallas wouldn't.

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    I think giving up Devin Harris would be the only thing that would make Dallas hesitate. But if we hold firm, I think we could get him in the deal. There's not a better available big man out there for Dallas, and if they're serious about competing with San Antonio, Phoenix, and the Lakers, they'd better get him.

    I forgot to mention that Jermaine also wins in this deal because he gets to go to a contender.
    Last edited by Evan_The_Dude; 02-09-2008 at 12:02 AM.

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Why do we want Dampier? We are already stuck with Troy for 26 years, why add to that misery?
    And haven't you all seen that Devin Harris has reached his peak - the guy isn't getting much better, and he's really not that good.

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Why would Dallas make that trade?
    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneal07 View Post
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    Why would Dallas make that trade?
    I stated plenty of reasons. Main one being while they lose a little (literally just a little) at the 3 position by trading Howard for Granger, they gain double that by getting O'Neal at the center position. They do the trade because their main competition has gone big in hopes of competing with San Antonio. They're the only ones who have done nothing since winning 67 games last season and losing to the Warriors in the first round. Jermaine is the best big man that's available (provided that he can play again this year). They can try him for 2 years and if it doesn't work they just let him walk or use his expiring contract in a trade. Devin Harris is a question, but to make it even talent wise I think Dallas would have to include him. If I'm Dallas I can honestly say that I'd do this deal. If you look at it from their prospective, they lose a little, but they gain a ton. Jermaine didn't work well being the man, but in Dallas Dirk is the man. That might work in his favor.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33
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    Why do we want Dampier? We are already stuck with Troy for 26 years, why add to that misery?
    And haven't you all seen that Devin Harris has reached his peak - the guy isn't getting much better, and he's really not that good.
    We don't really want Dampier, but I look at it like this. Dampier has 4 years and 10mill left on his deal. Jermaine has 2 years and 19 mill left on his. Sure Dampiers 4 years is longer, but technically after 3 we can use his expiring deal in a trade, or just buy him out from the get go. As I said, getting Dampier makes losing Foster less painful if it happens (not saying Dampier is anywhere near as good, but hopefully you get my point).

    As far as Devin Harris goes, what are you talking about? He's gotten better every season. He's not an All-Star, but he's a huge upgrade over what we have now. Plus, what point guard do we have that shoots above 38% from the field, let alone the 48% Devin Harris shoots from the field (which might I add a lot of that comes from drives to the basket, something we could use)?

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    If JO was completely healthy and scoring 20+ppg, that deal might be possible. As it stands, it is not happening. Howard>Granger, Harris>>>>Diener, Dampier>JO-on-one-leg

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    If JO was completely healthy and scoring 20+ppg, that deal might be possible. As it stands, it is not happening. Howard>Granger, Harris>>>>Diener, Dampier>JO-on-one-leg
    It all depends on Jermaine's health status and how Dallas values Jermaine. If Jermaine can play, he would be huge for them.

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Hmmm. Don't see how Dallas doesn't laugh in our face on this. As much as I like the sound of it from our perspective.

    Let's see. Broken down JO and they're left with no PG. The Jet isn't a true PG and the big thing now is how much he likes the 6th man role. Who's playing now in Harris's absence. Juan Jose Barea, no? I don't think they'd want he or Diener manning the helm for a WCF run.

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    I think if you downgrade it to essentially JO and DG for Howard and Damp plus whatever filler to even out salaries, you'd probably get them to do it.

    Some will say we're getting hosed, but if you truly believe it's not going to happen here with JO no matter what and it's just time to get what you can, Howard might be worth it.

    While Howard does have some D and O creative abilites, you still have to take into account the redundancy factor amongst our swingmen. It's replacing DG with a better version of DG.

    Is Howard a legit 2? If so mabye you can think about it. This allows Dun to go to the 3. So what Damp and Foster split the 5 minutes and who is the PF? Murph, Shawn, Ike?

    Who else do we move? Where does the O come from? Can Dallas throw on some draft picks? That would make it easier to swallow.

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Dallas might give up Josh and Damp for Diener, Danny and JO, but they definitely wouldn't throw Harris in on top of it all. I don't see a scenario where they would pull the trigger on that deal.

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Propose this to Dallas and you'll hear a dialtone rather quickly.

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Knicks idea here but since is the "realistic" trade thread I hope I'm putting it where it belongs.

    Option 1: JO/Tins/Ike to NY for Marbury/Rose/Balkman/Lee

    Option 2: Same deal take off Lee.

    Would Isaiah have the leeway to add that much salary given what's already going on there?

    Taking both the young energy guys might be too much to ask, but we are ridding them of Starbury. But that's why option two's included. Rose contract shorter than Tins and he offers some veteran leadership/toughness.

    Balkman's young and can specialize in boards and D. If Tins is out of the question maybe we throw in Quis in his stead.

    Is any of that somewhat realistic?

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    If Jason Kidd is only getting Harris instead of Howard, I doubt that the Mavs would give up BOTH for JO and DG. Plus that would leave the Mavs backcourt stripped, they've learned that they can't put a big load on Jason Terry.
    Half of the time we're gone, but we don't know where.

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Pffffffffff!!!! Cuban just spit his morning coffee through his nose in laughter.

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Leave out Granger and Howard and it could get done I suppose.

    Right now Howard's too important to the Mavs to be moved. Granger has shown that he's on his way to Howard's level, but he's not there yet.

    An O'Neal for Harris and Dampier deal is very fair from a talent-standpoint, but not right now, not with J.O.'s health the way it is. If Dallas falters in the playoffs and J.O. has a good second half to the season, it's something that could be explored in the offseason.

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    Default Re: What makes sense and why [Jermaine trade thread]

    Dampiers contract is the 2nd worse in the league next to Shaqs but at least he can make people laugh and be half way effective for 5 minutes every game. And Dampier will be 37 when the contract expires.
    Half of the time we're gone, but we don't know where.

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