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Thread: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bad for city, too

  1. #1

    Default IBJ: Pacers' troubles bad for city, too

    Recently the Indianapolis Business Journal had a big article about the Pacers. They follow it up in this week's issue with the following editorial.


    http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/...1F0&p_docnum=2


    February 4, 2008
    Indianapolis Business Journal (IN)




    Pacers' troubles bad for city, too


    Taxpayers shouldn't bail team out



    Four months ago, before the start of the NBA season, we urged fans and the corporate community to continue their support of the Indiana Pacers despite a string of off-the-court problems and on-the-court mediocrity. It was a difficult request then and an even tougher one today.

    The Pacers are mired in a losing streak near the season's midpoint. Top player Jermaine O'Neal could be out for the rest of the year with an injury, and the team's odds of landing a playoff spot appear to be dimming.

    More unfortunately, they still aren't a lovable bunch. Pacers management has yet to clear out players who have a fondness for illegal substances or a tendency to get into gunfights at 3 in the morning.

    In response, the marketplace is speaking loud and clear: Keep putting a losing team and players of questionable character on the court and we won't come. Attendance is down 22 percent from last year and has plunged to last in the league. NBA officials are expressing concern.


    If Internet blogs are a good indication, fans are fed up. "Thugs, drug dealers and whining babies," said one of many respondents to a recent item about the Pacers posted on IBJ's new sports business blog, The Score. That remark summed up the majority of opinions on IBJ's blog and several other sites that follow the team.


    The sad truth is that Pacers management, through poor personnel moves and its tolerance of bad behavior, has put the franchise in a hole that could be impossible to escape in the short term. We hope the empty seats finally send a message to owners Mel and Herb Simon that major steps need to be taken.


    Those steps, however, shouldn't involve asking the city for a better lease deal for Conseco Fieldhouse. The Pacers organization already has a favorable arrangement with the city and shouldn't expect a bailout.

    Some sports marketing experts think such a request is inevitable, but there's no evidence it's happened yet. To its credit, the franchise says it hasn't asked for anything. That's as it should be. The Simon brothers, two of the richest men in the world, have built a reputation for civic and charitable support. Asking taxpayers to rescue their business from a few million dollars in losses would only harm their positive legacy.


    As we've said before, Indianapolis doesn't benefit from a struggling Pacers organization. The team is a valuable asset with an important history. For multiple reasons, ranging from economic to psychological, the city is better off when the Pacers thrive.


    While understanding the reluctance, we still urge the corporate community and fans to support the organization the best they can.


    In return, we ask the Pacers organization to send a signal that it really is intent on turning things around. Because if that's the plan, the message hasn't been getting through.


    -----

    This is kind of a big deal.

    The IBJ hits the Simons right where they live. They probably don't spend much time on Pacers digest, but it is likely they know and care what the IBJ is saying.

    The editorial says the Pacers' organization isn't doing enough at the top level to win back fans: "Don't blame the players. Don't blame the coach. The front office and the owners need to act, and they need to be seen in action."
    Last edited by Putnam; 02-06-2008 at 04:56 PM.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  2. #2

    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    The direct link given above doesn't work.

    You can see the document if you go to the www.ibj.com site and search on "Pacers".
    Last edited by Putnam; 02-06-2008 at 09:51 AM.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  3. #3
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    I think the Simons are going to have to make a decison.

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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Quote Originally Posted by intridcold View Post
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    I think the Simons are going to have to make a decison.
    Decision? You mean San Diego or St. Louis - that type of decision.

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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    No way NBA allows Indiana to lose its franchise. Indiana is the basketball capital of the world, no way. If a franchise were ever to be moved b/c of bad attendence and play the Hawks would be the first to go

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    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    -----

    This is kind of a big deal.

    The IBJ hits the Simons right where they live. They probably don't spend much time on Pacers digest, but it is likely they know and care what the IBJ is saying.

    The editorial says the Pacers' organization isn't doing enough at the top level to win back fans: "Don't blame the players. Don't blame the coach. The front office and the owners need to act, and they need to be seen in action."
    Agreed. I know to take all of the message board & even the traditional sports media talk with a grain of salt. This is a publication dedicated to business and specifically Indiana business. While we fanatics and bored kids get on here and rant incessantly , we don't know what we're talking about really. When a business trade rag starts gettin' on your case something is more than amiss. Hard times baby, hard times. I hope they can turn this ship around and have faith the organization will but not necessarily with those that are currently in charge. I kinda did my own reading between the lines in that article and came out with the conclusion they don't have much faith, either.

    It would be nice if they removed Walsh & Bird from their duties. Whether they get fired or "re-positioned"? That onus is on the Simon's. I'm in the group that sees needed change in the front office.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Recently the Indianapolis Business Journal had a big article about the Pacers. They follow it up in this week's issue with the following editorial.


    http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/...1F0&p_docnum=2


    February 4, 2008
    Indianapolis Business Journal (IN)



    Pacers' troubles bad for city, too
    Taxpayers shouldn't bail team out



    Four months ago, before the start of the NBA season, we urged fans and the corporate community to continue their support of the Indiana Pacers despite a string of off-the-court problems and on-the-court mediocrity. It was a difficult request then and an even tougher one today.

    The Pacers are mired in a losing streak near the season's midpoint. Top player Jermaine O'Neal could be out for the rest of the year with an injury, and the team's odds of landing a playoff spot appear to be dimming.

    More unfortunately, they still aren't a lovable bunch. Pacers management has yet to clear out players who have a fondness for illegal substances or a tendency to get into gunfights at 3 in the morning.

    In response, the marketplace is speaking loud and clear: Keep putting a losing team and players of questionable character on the court and we won't come. Attendance is down 22 percent from last year and has plunged to last in the league. NBA officials are expressing concern.


    If Internet blogs are a good indication, fans are fed up. "Thugs, drug dealers and whining babies," said one of many respondents to a recent item about the Pacers posted on IBJ's new sports business blog, The Score. That remark summed up the majority of opinions on IBJ's blog and several other sites that follow the team.


    The sad truth is that Pacers management, through poor personnel moves and its tolerance of bad behavior, has put the franchise in a hole that could be impossible to escape in the short term. We hope the empty seats finally send a message to owners Mel and Herb Simon that major steps need to be taken.


    Those steps, however, shouldn't involve asking the city for a better lease deal for Conseco Fieldhouse. The Pacers organization already has a favorable arrangement with the city and shouldn't expect a bailout.

    Some sports marketing experts think such a request is inevitable, but there's no evidence it's happened yet. To its credit, the franchise says it hasn't asked for anything. That's as it should be. The Simon brothers, two of the richest men in the world, have built a reputation for civic and charitable support. Asking taxpayers to rescue their business from a few million dollars in losses would only harm their positive legacy.


    As we've said before, Indianapolis doesn't benefit from a struggling Pacers organization. The team is a valuable asset with an important history. For multiple reasons, ranging from economic to psychological, the city is better off when the Pacers thrive.


    While understanding the reluctance, we still urge the corporate community and fans to support the organization the best they can.


    In return, we ask the Pacers organization to send a signal that it really is intent on turning things around. Because if that's the plan, the message hasn't been getting through.


    -----

    This is kind of a big deal.

    The IBJ hits the Simons right where they live. They probably don't spend much time on Pacers digest, but it is likely they know and care what the IBJ is saying.

    The editorial says the Pacers' organization isn't doing enough at the top level to win back fans: "Don't blame the players. Don't blame the coach. The front office and the owners need to act, and they need to be seen in action."
    To me that is the most damning part of the article right there.

    I have argued with people on here for almost two years about this and very few have wanted to even aknowledge the arguement.

    I'm telling you that fans online who follow the NBA didn't care all that much about the brawl, however I knew from being around the city that one of the giant issues that the franchise was facing was the fact that managment never once stepped up to the plate and took blame for the franchise.

    Instead we circled the wagons, blamed everybody from John Greene to the staff at the Palace. While doing all of the above would have been fine and justifiable the fact that not once did Donnie, Herb or Mel ever come out and say that our players were in the wrong and that they apologized for thier behavior. Yes, I know some of you still to this day don't beleive that the players were in the wrong.

    But I think that this along with Donnie Walsh's, we must let the leagle system work it's course, response to the shootout on 38th street and then later with the 8 second saloon has damaged the franchise almost as much as anything else has.

    It has made Pacers management seem impotent at best and enablers at worst.

    Only Larry Bird has come out and publicly said how embarrased he was for the city and the franchise because he is from Indiana and knows this stuff hurts.

    However by the time he said it most people were blaming him for what was going on on the court so I think it fell on deaf ears.

    The response to Shawne Williams was swift and actually I did hear people actually say "it's about time".

    But then Jamaal again, justified or not, was in the news.

    Then worst of all David Harrison was arrested for pot.

    From a P.R. standpoint the best thing the Pacers could have done would be to have cut him on the spot. They just better be happy as heck that none of the main stream press picked up on his I need to smoke pot because Indianapolis is poluted talk with Bob Kravitz.

    I know that I am going to have a lineup of people disagreeing with me, however I just ask you to look at who you or all of us are.

    Pacer fans, mostly fanatic Pacer fans.

    Some of us will defend the team and the players to death and that is to be commended. But the sea of green is also speaking loud words as well.

    Also I know that the current thinking around here is the winning will cure all, and there is a lot of logic to that.

    If the Pacers were only losing 2 games a month then there is no doub that attendance would be better. However I want to point out that on Christmas day the Pacers were 3 games above .500 and were actually being talked about in NBA circles about being one of the suprise teams of the league. The sea of green was still present.

    Winning will not be a cure all for this. It would help, but it isn't the only solution.

    I lived here in the 80's, I have had tickets to the Pacers since 1985 so I was there with the curtains at MSA.

    What we had then was apathy in the state. The quote I always got was "you follow the Pacers, what a bunch of loser. Why don't you follow a real basketball team like I.U."?

    However the mood around the city and state is nothing like that now. It is not "what a bunch of losers". This is differant, there is a real sense of resentment out there.

    Whether we like it or not the general idea for a lot of people in this state is "Thugs".

    No I don't like that word anymore than you do and yes I know it is not the case. But I don't represent one of the 7,000 empty seats a night either.

  8. #8
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    Agreed. I know to take all of the message board & even the traditional sports media talk with a grain of salt. This is a publication dedicated to business and specifically Indiana business. While we fanatics and bored kids get on here and rant incessantly , we don't know what we're talking about really. When a business trade rag starts gettin' on your case something is more than amiss. Hard times baby, hard times. I hope they can turn this ship around and have faith the organization will but not necessarily with those that are currently in charge. I kinda did my own reading between the lines in that article and came out with the conclusion they don't have much faith, either.

    It would be nice if they removed Walsh & Bird from their duties. Whether they get fired or "re-positioned"? That onus is on the Simon's. I'm in the group that sees needed change in the front office.
    My only problem here is that effectively IBJ IS the voice of the message boards most of us who spend time on them have learned to take with a grain of salt.

    Seeing them quote one of the most extreme blog responses as gospel bothers me. What is their business opinion based on other than internet sports discussion, and who in their right mind trusts that?

    IBJ hasn't taken such a posting with a grain of salt. They've made that opinion the story. That doesn't make it more legit, it makes them less legit.


    As for the story, I don't deny that the Pacers image is in shambles, but that doesn't mean the image is a perfect match with reality. The Pacers probably have done a poor job indicating the direction of reality, but then as I continue to say they lack the number one tool for rebuilding an image...wins.

    Wins are about your only feel-good story. The path of Owens or Rush to the Pacers is okay but it's dwarfed by the power of a story like Cloud 9. If you could get Mike Dunleavy and Danny Granger carrying the team to inspired victories then they would become the story and it would certainly be feel-good.

    But if it's just mostly losing by mostly nice guys peppered with the occasional drug/violence/legal issue story then there isn't much the Pacers can do. Even if Tins and Harrison were already traded that wouldn't make a single solitary bit of difference to the business.

    Not one fan (new or old) would return to Conseco if Tins was traded for, say, Andre Miller tomorrow. Not one. And IBJ should understand the sporting and PR of businesses enough to know this is true.

    So instead of writing an article pulled right from semi-moderated online forums where we all know the most extreme opinions come from, how about a story about how a biz with nothing going for it convinces it's costumer base that it does have something going for it. It's silly for IBJ to apparently agree with the idea that "nothing has been done".

    Of course it has, many times over, and basically what has been done is to respond to exactly these type of PR criticisms INSTEAD OF RUNNING THE FREAKING BUSINESS on it's actual debits/credits - wins and losses and how to attain those. It's like IBJ saying that a car company needs to fire some executive with a bad image rather than make a car someone actually wants to buy. The product is the key, the image is just the excuse to not buy a bad or simply marginal product.

    Or did I miss where Super Size Me and a slew of health conscious bad PR put McDonald's out of business? If you make a good product, they will come, even if it comes with bad PR.

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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    \While we fanatics and bored kids get on here and rant incessantly , we don't know what we're talking about really. When a business trade rag starts gettin' on your case something is more than amiss.
    That attitude kind of disturbs me.

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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Peck, who is tolerated?

    Ron - gone
    Jack - gone
    Al - gone (spoke poorly of the situation and ended up benched for it even)
    Shawne - suspended
    Harrison - suspended, though not by the Pacers...of course that wasn't an option on the table till the NBA notified the team via his suspension. And he struggles to get PT, even under Rick.

    Who's really left? Tins. And he wasn't even playing until a few days ago.

    What part of Diener, Rush, Dunleavy, Granger, Murphy, Foster, and Owens are problems? Has Shawne really been so outrageous and untolerated? If anything he's taken the hardest penalty vs his behavior.

    I still call BS on this attitude. I realize casual fans DO have it, but that doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it reasonable for an allegedly legitimate news source to jump on board with it.

    Maybe the story should be that IN SPITE OF MAKING CHANGES they have failed to fix the image, rather than "they ain't done nothing pa".


    Frankly if I were writing the story the angle would be that PAST problems have made the team extremely weak in riding out the truly hard times of their business, ie periods of losing.

    There's a great story to how previously getting burned or maybe tolerating stuff (if they knew that 8 Seconds or Harrison were on the horizon by how those players behaved regularly) has caught up to the team even as they try to make amends.


    Peck - tell us more about Harrison's arrest for pot. Was this reported in IBJ?

    However I want to point out that on Christmas day the Pacers were 3 games above .500 and were actually being talked about in NBA circles about being one of the suprise teams of the league. The sea of green was still present.
    Thanks for making my point. F those fans. Mike, Troy, Ike, Rush, Owens, Diener, Graham have all been brought in. Danny remains an apparently great citizen and a 4 year college guy. JO had the brawl and at the time he was heavily defended, and for good reason. So that group gets above .500 and fans don't come. It proves that REALITY has nothing to do with IMAGE.

    It's not that the team isn't responding, it's that fans didn't come to see Reggie and Detlef when they were surprising people either and showing potential. They didn't even need the excuse of Reggie got arrested. They just fell back on "well I'm sure they'll choke in the end". You know these people, they said the same thing about the Colts prior to last season's playoffs (cough Shade cough).

    The PR hurt but the losing hurt even more because it came right on the heels of the PR hits. Now the image and Tinsley are the only stories.


    OTOH, give the Pacers a top 10 pick, not even Gordon, and you've got a start. Still, eventually this team will need to do hella better than 3 games over .500 to fix things, and that's ALWAYS been true even prior to the "thugs".

    You know my anecdote on this one. Myself and 3 buddies went down 15 minutes prior to tip-off and got 4 seats together about 15 rows off the floor for $7 each from the BOX OFFICE the night Dale was signed and played his first game. Yeah, MSA sure was packed back then for good guys Reggie, Rik, Det and Chuck.



    disclaimer - I think the team is pretty bad and stuck with all sorts of roster issues, it's just that I'm a fan of the team not a winning team.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 02-06-2008 at 03:02 PM.

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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Peck, who is tolerated?

    Ron - gone
    Jack - gone
    Al - gone (spoke poorly of the situation and ended up benched for it even)
    Shawne - suspended
    Harrison - suspended, though not by the Pacers...of course that wasn't an option on the table till the NBA notified the team via his suspension. And he struggles to get PT, even under Rick.

    Who's really left? Tins. And he wasn't even playing until a few days ago.

    What part of Diener, Rush, Dunleavy, Granger, Murphy, Foster, and Owens are problems? Has Shawne really been so outrageous and untolerated? If anything he's taken the hardest penalty vs his behavior.

    I still call BS on this attitude. I realize casual fans DO have it, but that doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it reasonable for an allegedly legitimate news source to jump on board with it.

    Maybe the story should be that IN SPITE OF MAKING CHANGES they have failed to fix the image, rather than "they ain't done nothing pa".


    Frankly if I were writing the story the angle would be that PAST problems have made the team extremely weak in riding out the truly hard times of their business, ie periods of losing.

    There's a great story to how previously getting burned or maybe tolerating stuff (if they knew that 8 Seconds or Harrison were on the horizon by how those players behaved regularly) has caught up to the team even as they try to make amends.


    Peck - tell us more about Harrison's arrest for pot. Was this reported in IBJ?

    My bad, that should say suspension.

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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Peck, I thought Donnie and the Simons did come out after the brawl and did say the players were wrong for going into the stands. I don't really want to dig all that up again, but I thought they did admit wrongdoing.

    Of course they also were upset with Stern for length of suspensions, mad at the Pistons and security.... and on and on.

    It has been a few years and perhaps my memory is a little fuzzy, so maybe I'm wrong. I don't feel like doing a search on the matter.

    In the end I don't think it matters today whether they came out and admitted fault or wrongdoing or to what degree they did or didn't. The two players most associated with the brawl are gone.

    Not to repeat myself but the complaint I hear a lot more often from casual fans is that they don't know any of the players.

    My honest thought about this is Indianapolis doesn't like the NBA and the years from 1994 - 2000 were the exception that only occurred under extremely unusual circumstances - and it will never get to that level again.

    If I were a completely neutral observer, I would say that there shouldn't be an NBA team in the city of Indianapolis - they won't support the team and the team should be relocated.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 02-06-2008 at 02:56 PM.

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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    No offense guys but let's look at the first two people to throw themselves on the grenade so to speak are.

    Uncle Buck and Naptown Seth.

    What do both have in common? Huge Pacer fans, which I applaud and am one myself (yes in size as well)

    But I am telling you, which you both already know, that there is a real and deep anger in this city about this franchise. Yes they have brought in Diener, Rush, and Foster and others are still around. But guess who is in the non-sporting part of the nightly news? That's right Jamaal Tinsley and David Harrison.

    Don't get me wrong I am not saying that people are going to flock to the fieldhouse to watch a group of nice guys lose. However you are mistaken as well if you believe that the fans will flock out here to just see wins by a characters they can't stand.

    Also U.B. I believe that Donnie Walsh made the comment that they knew their players were wrong but that was it. No rebuke, no indication of embarrasement and worst of all nothing from the Simons.

    Also Seth your analogy about McDonalds is flawed in one sense. Super size me made the company change image and do away with the entire "super size" menue option. Did it make the burgers any more healthy? No, but it gave the illusion that McDonalds got the message and cared.

    The fact that there has been no rebuke is really a big part of this.

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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Not one fan (new or old) would return to Conseco if Tins was traded for, say, Andre Miller tomorrow. Not one.
    I would.

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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    People aren't coming to the games, primarily, because we're losing. The "bad behavior" of certain players is certainly a reason as well, but more of a scapegoat than anything.

    Sports fan are fickle. Kobe allegedly raped someone and said he wanted the hell outta dodge, but the Lakers are winning, so all is forgiven.

    Bob Knight was an insufferable ******* for 29 years, but IU was winning, so all was forgiven. Until IU wasn't winning anymore, and then he was shown the door.

    Winning cures most ills. Granted, Indy fans seem to be a bit more hellbent on having character than most cities' fans, but if we were legit title contenders, fans would still be coming to games.

    We've also become struck by "Atlanta Braves Disease." IU's championship runs, the Pacers 90's success, and the Colts' recent Super Bowl Championship have spoiled us. We've seen both sides of the coin, and we now expect it to always land heads. If it doesn't, we lose interest.

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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    It's funny you brought up the embarrassment Peck. I never felt even a twinge of embarrassment after the brawl. I was outraged by what happened and not at the players. Artest is the one who lead me down that path. Continuous outbursts, CD's, wanting trades. It embarrassed me when most everyone stood behind this guy and he crapped on all of us. THAT'S when I became embarrassed.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    I could type lots of words (and maybe later I will) but the real fact is:

    It's a two-fold problem.

    It's not just the losing, but it's the culture of the team. We're losing with a team that has some players that casual fans and hard-core fans alike aren't enamored with.

    On top of that, the fanbase has been polarized and management allowed that feeling to take root and spread by sitting on their hands.

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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    I think you guys are missing my point or I didn't really come off very clear. The IBJ is a much more respected media format than message boards. We expect Bob Kravitz and the other Star sports reporters to unload on the Pacers. We expect the television sports guys to slather it on. But a business journal? Even if they did get their info from those very sources, the fact that they deemed it an appropriate story is where I was going with this. When people who watch every game and chat about it simultaneously start to rip a franchise it's one thing, but when a business oriented publication does so it's completely different.

    Bird & Walsh got this team into the mess and the Simon's have to find a way to get them out. That means new people in those positions to me.

  19. #19

    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Dr. Goldfoot is right.

    The headline of the editorial is "Pacers troubles bad for the city, too." This goes way beyond our usual discussions.

    The IBJ is saying that the Pacers are a detriment to the community: ("Indianapolis doesn't benefit from a struggling Pacers' organization.") And they are sending a message to the Simons to clean it up, pronto.

    What do you suppose it takes for the city's leading journal of business to call out the city's two prominent billionaires? Chris Katterjohn gets invited to better parties than Bob Kravitz does, and he isn't in the habit of courting controversy. This goes way beyond how many 3-point attempts we take or whether Steven Graham gets any minutes. As Peck says, this is about the "sea of green."

    EDIT: It occurred to me afterwards that by "sea of green" Peck referred to empty seats inside Conseco Fieldhouse. Well, I won't disagree with that, but I think the real "sea of green" is the BIG MONEY that is starting to talk.

    Kids, the Pacers' organization has fewer than 100 employees, and an annual payroll in the tens of millions. That is peanuts to the IBJ. If the big boys even once hear that a company doesn't want to locate or expand its operations in Central Indiana because of crime concerns, they are going to start leaning on the organization to clean up its act. That is what this is about.
    Last edited by Putnam; 02-07-2008 at 08:52 AM.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  20. #20
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    By the way, will somebody please tell me how to fix the spelling mistake in the headline of this thread?
    Go to edit and then click on advanced and change the spelling

  21. #21

    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    It's not just the losing and it's not just that perceived bad apples
    (cough***Tinsley***cough) are still around. B-ball fans in Indy
    and the surrounding area are smart. They can see that this
    team as presently constructed isn't going anywhere worth
    getting excited about or looking forward too.

  22. #22
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    You won't get this:


    While understanding the reluctance, we still urge the corporate community and fans to support the organization the best they can.


    Until after the city/state/fans get this:


    In return, we ask the Pacers organization to send a signal that it really is intent on turning things around.


    And they've already tried 'talk' and have proven that the old axiom "Talk is cheap" is very true. Only action will matter now.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  23. #23
    woman without a team
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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    "Why don't you follow a real basketball team like I.U."?



  24. #24
    woman without a team
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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    People aren't coming to the games, primarily, because we're losing. The "bad behavior" of certain players is certainly a reason as well, but more of a scapegoat than anything.
    Bull poop. If I'm not mistaken attendance is down league wide. Is that because the Pacers are playing bad?

    I stopped watching the Pacers when Austin and AJ were traded away. Why? Because they were the two players left on the team that I still liked. The rest of the team were players that I either didn't like, could no longer like, or just didn't have an opinion of one way or the other.

  25. #25
    Member BruceLeeroy's Avatar
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    Default Re: IBJ: Pacers' troubles bd for city, too

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrion View Post
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    I would.
    This is the first year I haven't been to a game since I can remember.

    I'll be at the first game after Tinsley's traded.

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