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Thread: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

  1. #26
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Wow, the Bulls right now should have a starting line-up of:

    Brand
    Aldridge
    Artest
    Crawford
    Hinrich

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Our roster right now could have been:

    Dampier/Foster/Brezec/Harrison/Lorbek
    Harrington/Croshere/DDavis
    Granger/Williams
    JJones/FJones/JWhite
    Tinsley/Brewer

    That would be about a 15-20 win team right there. Yikes.

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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    My vote for highest impact player drafted by the Pacers since 1990 would
    have to be Dale Davis - easily.

    He brought a toughness and interior presence never before seen on an NBA
    Pacers team.

    He was exactly what they had been sorely needing for a very long time, and
    was a key contributor to the Pacers being one of the best teams of the '90s.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    I'd have to agree DD was a great pick, but when you're drafting in the 20's every year you're not going to have much luck drafting an impact player.

    The jury is still out on Danny and Shawne. Danny has improved every year, and remember Shawne would be a junior right now in college.




  5. #30
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    Then why did they trade up in the draft for Foster? and trade away a pick for two years down the road? Not questioning you just that thought.
    Probably saw Foster as an eventual replacement for Smits, who retired after that season.

    And I got Cummings and Piatkowski mixed up in my first post.

  6. #31
    Member OnlyPacersLeft's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    exactly what i was trying to point out in another thread...all these people want to tank and get a high draft pick and blah blah blah...

    sorry but
    Antonio Davis
    Dale Davis
    (Granted we traded him) Eric Piatkowski
    Fred Hoiberg
    Travis Best
    Erick Dampier
    Austin Croshere
    Al Harrington
    Primoz Brezec
    Danny Granger

    don't seem like the answer to this franchise...of course...lets keep hoping!
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

  7. #32
    Formerly PacerFanInAZ Cactus Jax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    I grow sick of the Granger hate, he's averaging 17.5 ppg, in whats now an offense based around him and Mike, shoots a respectable 45% from the floor and 38% from 3 range, and 82% from the line, while guarding usually the team's top offensive force, and grabbing 6 boards a game, and missing 4 games in his career.

    In terms of the Pacers they've drafted quite well, sure there's picks they could have done better with, but they've done very well with later picks, which either were on the Pacers or other teams.

    I'll go a step further and post what players were picked 1 spot ahead of us.

    1990 -- Round 2, Pick 44 -- Milwaukee Bucks take Steve Henson
    1991 -- Round 1, Pick 12 -- New York Knicks take Greg Anthony
    1991 -- Round 2, Pick 40 -- Detroit Pistons take Doug Overton
    1992 -- Round 1, Pick 13 -- Denver Nuggets take Bryant Stith
    1993 -- Round 1, Pick 13 -- LA Clippers take Terry Dehere
    1993 -- Round 2, Pick 38 -- Washington Bullets take Conrad McRae
    1993 -- Round 2, Pick 50 -- Houston Rockets take Marcelo Nicola
    1994 -- Round 1, Pick 14 -- New Jersey Nets take Yinka Dare
    1994 -- Round 2, Pick 40 -- Miami Heat take Jeff Webster
    1994 -- Round 2, Pick 43 -- Portland Trailblazers take Shawnelle Scott
    1995 -- Round 1, Pick 22 -- Charlotte Hornets take George Zidek
    1995 -- Round 2, Pick 51 -- Sacramento Kings take Dejan Bodiroga
    1996 -- Round 1, Pick 9 -- Dallas Mavericks take Samaki Walker
    1996 -- Round 2, Pick 51 -- Vancouver Grizzlies take Chris Robinson
    1997 -- Round 1, Pick 11 -- Sacramento Kings take Oliver Saint-Jean
    1998 -- Round 1, Pick 24 -- San Antonio Spurs take Felipe Lopez
    1999 -- Round 1, Pick 25 -- Miami Heat take Tim James
    2000 -- Round 1, Pick 26 -- Denver Nuggets take Mamadou N'Diaye
    2000 -- Round 2, Pick 55 -- Golden State Warriors take Chris Porter
    2001 -- Round 2, Pick 40 -- Seattle Supersonics take Earl Watson
    2002 -- Round 1, Pick 13 -- Milwaukee Bucks take Marcus Haislip
    2003 -- Round 2, Pick 48 -- New Orleans Hornets take James Lang
    2004 -- Round 1, Pick 28 -- San Antonio Spurs take Beno Udrih
    2004 -- Round 2, Pick 59 -- Minnesota Timberwolves take Blake Stepp
    2005 -- Round 1, Pick 16 -- Toronto Raptors take Joey Graham
    2005 -- Round 2, Pick 45 -- Philadelphia 76ers take Louis Williams
    2006 -- Round 1, Pick 16 -- Chicago Bulls take Rodney Carney
    2006 -- Round 2, Pick 44 -- Orlando Magic take Lior Eliyahu
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyPacersLeft View Post
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    exactly what i was trying to point out in another thread...all these people want to tank and get a high draft pick and blah blah blah...

    sorry but
    Antonio Davis
    Dale Davis
    (Granted we traded him) Eric Piatkowski
    Fred Hoiberg
    Travis Best
    Erick Dampier
    Austin Croshere
    Al Harrington
    Primoz Brezec
    Danny Granger

    don't seem like the answer to this franchise...of course...lets keep hoping!
    How many of those were Top 10 picks?

    If we finish middle-of-the-pack again next season, we're going to get a pick on par with the players you've posted. How does that make us any better down the line? Are you content with being mediocre forever?

  9. #34
    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffg-body View Post
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    I'd have to agree DD was a great pick, but when you're drafting in the 20's every year you're not going to have much luck drafting an impact player.

    The jury is still out on Danny and Shawne. Danny has improved every year, and remember Shawne would be a junior right now in college.



    It's interesting to compare Shawne's current year stats to Danny's first year:

    Pacer Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT%
    SW 07-08 IND 39 2 16.1 0.462 0.349 0.694
    DG 05-06 IND 78 17 22.6 0.462 0.323 0.777


    Pacer OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
    SW 0.9 1.9 2.8 0.9 0.5 0.3 1.15 2.30 7.3
    DG 1.7 3.2 4.9 1.2 0.7 0.8 1.03 2.70 7.5

    Very similar numbers. Danny was getting more minutes, but when corrected for this, the major difference is rebounds - Danny hits the boards much harder.

    In any case, if Shawne progresses as Danny has, this will be good. But this does not address the Pacers gluttony of SFs.

    Shawne Williams for Delonte West works, though if Shawne develops the way he's going, we might get more for him later down the road or he'd be more valuable as a 6th man, which we seem to have a surplus of with Daniels, Diogu, and Foster/Murphy.

  10. #35
    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyPacersLeft View Post
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    exactly what i was trying to point out in another thread...all these people want to tank and get a high draft pick and blah blah blah...

    sorry but
    Antonio Davis
    Dale Davis
    (Granted we traded him) Eric Piatkowski
    Fred Hoiberg
    Travis Best
    Erick Dampier
    Austin Croshere
    Al Harrington
    Primoz Brezec
    Danny Granger

    don't seem like the answer to this franchise...of course...lets keep hoping!
    Those picks were all in the teens.

    Say we get the 5th pick in the draft this year, that is a decent possibility if we keep losing.

    How do you feel about getting a guy like Devin Harris, Raymond Felton, or even Dwayne Wade? All are recent #5 picks. Then again, so are Bender and Nikoloz Tskititzvili to be fair, but we've got enough "average" players so I'm willing to take a gamble on getting a superstar.

  11. #36
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by RamBo_Lamar View Post
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    My vote for highest impact player drafted by the Pacers since 1990 would
    have to be Dale Davis - easily.

    He brought a toughness and interior presence never before seen on an NBA
    Pacers team.

    He was exactly what they had been sorely needing for a very long time, and
    was a key contributor to the Pacers being one of the best teams of the '90s.
    ...And exactly what the Pacers have lacked since they traded him... (altho even at 52 years old he was still able to bring some of that back when the Pacers signed him a couple of years back and he and Reggie helped to save the season).

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    Those picks were all in the teens.

    Say we get the 5th pick in the draft this year, that is a decent possibility if we keep losing.

    How do you feel about getting a guy like Devin Harris, Raymond Felton, or even Dwayne Wade? All are recent #5 picks. Then again, so are Bender and Nikoloz Tskititzvili to be fair, but we've got enough "average" players so I'm willing to take a gamble on getting a superstar.
    Walsh (apparently) loves 7' project centers and also long and lean tweeners (players that can play SG/SF or even SG/SF/PF but are generally quite slow at SG, generally slow at SF, and totally too skinny and prefers to stay away from contact to be an effective PF). If we get a #5 pick, look for us to spend it on one of the above. Let's not forget, Bender was a #5 pick.



    -Bball
    Last edited by Bball; 01-30-2008 at 06:23 PM.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  13. #38

    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    I'm tired of the Bender hate. Yes, he came along slowly. Yes, he never realized his potential. Yes, that draft was loaded.

    But the guy was forced to retire at the same age Danny Granger is RIGHT NOW. And for a couple years prior to that, his knees didn't allow him to play the way he wanted to. Be angry at the front office for covering up the severity of those injuries (Microfracture surgery on both knees) and extending him at the pay they did (although, again, 4 years, not 7), but it's despicable to beat a dead, retired horse who doesn't deserve your scorn.

    I'd like to point that that last year, there was a game against the Spurs, and despite those bad knees, he dominated Bowen to the point he was commanding a double team from Duncan, and was still scoring at will. Jonathan Bender had the potential to be a force of nature on the level of Kevin Garnett or Shawn Kemp. The only thing that stopped him was a steep learning curve and two horrible knees.

    I find it interesting that Len Bias OD'ed on cocaine, and he's a sad story. Bender tries his best and is forced to choose between retiring or living his 30s-death in a wheelchair, and some of you act like you'd spit on him if you saw him. It's despicable.

    As for the Pacers themselves, they've done a good job drafting considering where they've been picking. The one thing I can't fault this franchise about is their drafting. The truth is that it's very hard to pick a true impact player where we've been picking for the last 15 years.

    It's time to go find that impact player.

  14. #39
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    I've always thought Walsh has been good at making draft picks. Bird seems to have the MO of making a good first round pick and then taking a flier on someone from Europe in the second round, such as Lorbek and Stanko. I like it that he's doing this.

    I also like that Bird goes after players he really likes. He won a four team tug of war for Saras. He tried really hard to get Chicago's Gordon. (Harrington for the 5th pick if I remember right) He liked James White and got him. (He was also smart enough to cut his loses) He tried to get Bynum for JO. I still believe Kevin Martin was part of the Sacramento trade until Artest acted up wanting to go to LA.

    Yes I know none of those have worked out in our favor, but I still like what Bird is doing. Look at all the players that have been in a Pacers uniform since the brawl. There's been a big turnover. It does appear that he finally found a keeper in Rush, but that could turn on him too since Rush will be a free agent. Thus my only question about Bird is he going to be able to keep players once we get them?

    I do think that if we dropped all the way to 5th pick in the draft, Bird would somehow turn that pick into Gordon or Rose. Our luck though if we finished with the fifth worst record someone like the Knick's would vault over us by winning the lottery.

    One more thought. Does anyone else thing Pat Riley is tanking on purpose? I'm thinking he wants another high draft pick like he got with Wade. A center to replace Shag?
    Last edited by Will Galen; 01-30-2008 at 06:57 PM.

  15. #40
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    I'm tired of the Bender hate. Yes, he came along slowly. Yes, he never realized his potential. Yes, that draft was loaded.

    But the guy was forced to retire at the same age Danny Granger is RIGHT NOW. And for a couple years prior to that, his knees didn't allow him to play the way he wanted to. Be angry at the front office for covering up the severity of those injuries (Microfracture surgery on both knees) and extending him at the pay they did (although, again, 4 years, not 7), but it's despicable to beat a dead, retired horse who doesn't deserve your scorn.

    I'd like to point that that last year, there was a game against the Spurs, and despite those bad knees, he dominated Bowen to the point he was commanding a double team from Duncan, and was still scoring at will. Jonathan Bender had the potential to be a force of nature on the level of Kevin Garnett or Shawn Kemp. The only thing that stopped him was a steep learning curve and two horrible knees.

    I find it interesting that Len Bias OD'ed on cocaine, and he's a sad story. Bender tries his best and is forced to choose between retiring or living his 30s-death in a wheelchair, and some of you act like you'd spit on him if you saw him. It's despicable.

    As for the Pacers themselves, they've done a good job drafting considering where they've been picking. The one thing I can't fault this franchise about is their drafting. The truth is that it's very hard to pick a true impact player where we've been picking for the last 15 years.

    It's time to go find that impact player.
    Bender was a bust. There's nothing more to say there.

    My problem is not with Bender, it is with management wasting a player AND a 5th pick in a loaded draft on a project when we didn't need a project (shouldn't have taken Al the year before if they wanted to risk the '99 pick on a (too) raw project with bad knees coming out of HS).

    -Bball
    Last edited by Bball; 01-30-2008 at 07:02 PM.
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    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  16. #41
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Bender was a bust. There's nothing more to say.

    -Bball
    Yes he was, but you'll never get some of us to think he was a bad pick.

  17. #42

    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Bender was a bust. There's nothing more to say.

    -Bball
    There's plenty more to say, but nothing that won't get me banned.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Yes he was, but you'll never get some of us to think he was a bad pick.
    That's OK... but it doesn't hurt to try...

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Yes he was, but you'll never get some of us to think he was a bad pick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    That's OK... but it doesn't hurt to try...

    -Bball

    O.K., I'll try. Bender is Mo Pete's cousin. Had Bender's knees been the least bit adequate I'm convinced Jonathan would have been an excellent pick.

  20. #45
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by grace View Post
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    O.K., I'll try. Bender is Mo Pete's cousin. Had Bender's knees been the least bit adequate I'm convinced Jonathan would have been an excellent pick.
    Ok... You've all browbeat me into this admission:
    Had Bender been healthy, motivated, and a great basketball player then he would've been a nice player for the Pacers...



    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    It's irrelevant. First of all, we've had very few lottery picks since then. Second of all, we have a completely different GM now.

  22. #47
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since 1990, who has the Pacers drafted that is worth a d***

    Quote Originally Posted by Kofi View Post
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    It's irrelevant. First of all, we've had very few lottery picks since then. Second of all, we have a completely different GM now.
    Yes, when you're in the playoffs for over a decade, picks get pretty thin. That shouldn't be a problem for the next decade...

    BTW, the best thing we can do as a franchise is reposition in preparation for 3 years from now when the fat contracts start dropping off. It's time to take the bitter medicine if you want to feel any better...

    Starting points would be to determine who we want to hang onto. I do think a player like Granger, who you can rely on being a good citizen and a good player, is one you hang onto. Perhaps you can get another asset for him, but IMO, he's at least a decent starting SF for a good team. I say keep him and spin off whoever else you can to grab some picks and young talent wherever possible. The only difficult thing about all of this will be the losses for the next 2 or 3 years. After that, things will bottom out. If done properly, we will not become the worst team in the league.

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