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Thread: Johan Santana to NY Mets

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    Member tdubb03's Avatar
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    Default Johan Santana to NY Mets

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3220894

    Santana FOR Carlos Gomez (OF), Phil Humber (RHP), Deolis Guerra (RHP), and Kevin Mulvey (RHP)

    Pending Santana's approval (no trade clause).

    I guess the OFer is supposed to replace Torrii Hunter? Seems like something based on Phil Hughes, or John Lester, made much more sense for them. Who knows, the Twins have always come out pretty well in these deals for prospects.
    Last edited by tdubb03; 01-29-2008 at 06:30 PM.

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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Johan Santana to NY Mets

    The Mets are really betting the farm here. Those guys are all highly regarded and were virtual locks to make it to the majors in the Mets system. Adding Santana to an already capable staff will get them playoffs every year for a few years though.

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    Member BoomBaby31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Johan Santana to NY Mets

    They have to do it, if they want to compete with the Red Sox. I don't understand the Yankees, they will pay some old slugger or 40+ year old pitcher a gazillion dollars for 2 years but won't trade some prospects for a TRUE 28 year old ace on their staff? As bad as they need pitching plus, the prospects the yankees didn't want to give up better be superhuman to break that all-star cast of a line up.

    He should of went to the dodgers though

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    Default Re: Johan Santana to NY Mets

    Didn't LIKE giving up Gomez but I'll live. Beltran will be in CF for the next 5 years or so anyway.

    Didn't think we had a shot because we don't have a lot of elite prospects but Minaya got it done. Now if he can just fix the middle relief which is what really let us down last year.
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    Default Re: Johan Santana to NY Mets

    would have been nice to get him because having a 1-2 of santana and becket would be mind-numbingly awesome. but i'm more than happy to keep our prospects and keep him out of the AL east.
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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Johan Santana to NY Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    would have been nice to get him because having a 1-2 of santana and becket would be mind-numbingly awesome. but i'm more than happy to keep our prospects and keep him out of the AL east.
    Still can't believe we wouldn't offer Lester and Jacoby together. Johan/Beckett/Dice K for the next five years is waaaaay too sick to turn down.

    Good for the Mets though. If Petey can stay moderately healthy, then they have a sick playoff rotation when you throw in Maine, OPez and even the 65-year-old Cubano.
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    Default Re: Johan Santana to NY Mets

    Having Ellsberry as your leadoff and CF for the next 10years is a big upside too.

    I mean Lester did pitch a no-no in his second major league start so let's not act like they don't have some very good looking young prospects out there.

    Shilling staying for another year gives them a lot more wiggle room in slowly developing Lester and others instead of just throwing them into the fire.

    Their middle relief is very good, they have one of the best closers in the game, they have one of the best as their #1.

    Yes you go from arguably the best AL rotation, to THE best no questions asked but the cupboard aint bare by a long shot.

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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Johan Santana to NY Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Having Ellsberry as your leadoff and CF for the next 10years is a big upside too.
    Yeah...Problem is we still have Coco, JD and Manny for this year. And while Jacoby seems significantly better at the plate than Coco (in a small sample size obvoiusly), Coco is the better CF. And it's not like he has much in the way of trade value at that salary.

    I mean Lester did pitch a no-no in his second major league start so let's not act like they don't have some very good looking young prospects out there.
    That was Clay Bucholz. Lester's the guy coming back from cancer. And don't get me wrong, Lester is good...but his ceiling doesn't even approach top of the rotation stuff. He's a #3 in MLB at best. Nothing to sneeze over, of course, but we're talking about Johan Santana, ya know.

    If Bucholz is as advertised, a Johan/Beckett/Bucholz/Dice K rotation could be historically great.

    From Baseball Prospectus:

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=6902

    1. Clay Buchholz, RHP
    DOB: 8/14/84
    Height/Weight: 6-3/190
    Bats/Throws: L/R
    Draft: 1st round, 2005, Angelina College (TX)

    2007 Stats: 1.77 ERA at Double-A (86.2-55-22-116); 3.96 ERA at Triple-A (38.2-32-13-55); 1.59 ERA at MLB (22.2-14-10-22)

    Year In Review: After finishing the previous year on such a strong note, the Red Sox surprised some by starting Buchholz off at Double-A this season, but he blew away hitters at two levels before throwing a no-hitter in his second big league start, and establishing himself as the top pitching prospect in the game.

    The Good: Buchholz is the total package with outstanding stuff, outstanding command and control, and outstanding mound presence. His four-seam fastball sits at 92-94 mph, can touch 97, and features excellent movement. It also isn’t even his best pitch. His plus-plus curveball is a true 12-6 breaker, and multiple scouts relay stories of batters falling down while trying to hit it. His changeup is also an above-average offering that features a late and heavy drop. He also mixes in a solid slider, and a two-seam fastball with some sink. His mechanics are smooth and sound, and he pitches with a fearless intensity.

    The Bad: Anything here is nitpicking. At times, Buchholz becomes a bit too enamored with his secondary offerings, and needs to focus more on setting everything up with his fastball. Some felt this was solved at the big league level when Jason Varitek called all the pitches. Buchholz was shut down at the end of the season due to minor arm soreness, but it was done purely on a precautionary basis, and there are no long-term concerns.

    Fun Fact: While at Angelina college, Buchholz was also the best hitter on the team, and would still have been drafted in the first ten rounds as an outfielder if he'd never pitched.
    Perfect World Projection: Buchholz is one of the few pitching prospects around with true ace potential.

    Timetable: Buchholz’ ascent is the primary reason Curt Schilling has been spending time writing good-bye letters to his Boston teammates. Buchholz is penciled in for an Opening Day rotation slot, and could be an impact pitcher immediately.
    Basically, I think it comes down to money. There is actually a limit to how much John Henry will spend, and I don't think he was willing to give Johan 6 years/$120 million or whatever when we have Lester/Bucholz who will both be up here at 1/10th of that price and won't even hit arbitration for several more years. As a fan, I don't care about the checkbook, so I want Johan, but there is obviously a real-world out there too, I suppose.


    Their middle relief is very good, they have one of the best closers in the game, they have one of the best as their #1.

    Yes you go from arguably the best AL rotation, to THE best no questions asked but the cupboard aint bare by a long shot.
    All true.

    But you need to remember that us Red Sox fans all turned into insatiable a$$holes that are legitimately expecting to wins three more rings by 2012. And I wish I could say that was a joke.
    Last edited by JayRedd; 01-30-2008 at 03:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Johan Santana to NY Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Yeah...Problem is we still have Coco, JD and Manny for this year. And while Jacoby seems significantly better at the plate than Coco (in a small sample size obvoiusly), Coco is the better CF. And it's not like he has much in the way of trade value at that salary.
    I know Manny is God-awful in the field, but he does play the wall extremely well, and his bat more than makes up for his comical relief that is fielding.

    I'm more than comfortable having an outfield of Manny, Ells, and Drew. I wish they could pick up a better RF, but I think they should be able to have a weaklink somewhere.

    Ells and Pedoria just killed in the WS, yes I know they probably would have won regardless but when two young players shine the way they did in that big of a spotlight really gets impressive.

    And I think Pedoria should have won MVP but I'm not crying over Lowell getting it either.

    Really I think Beck should have with what he did in the ALCS but I know that's against the spirit of the award.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    That was Clay Bucholz. Lester's the guy coming back from cancer. And don't get me wrong, Lester is good...but his ceiling doesn't even approach top of the rotation stuff. He's a #3 in MLB at best. Nothing to sneeze over, of course, but we're talking about Johan Santana, ya know.

    If Bucholz is as advertised, a Johan/Beckett/Bucholz/Dice K rotation could be historically great.
    Yeah sorry, got them confused. I'm just not really worried about the rotation. Dice K really fell off towards the end of the season, because of the difference in season length IMHO. I think he'll be better throughout this year, which is scary. I don't view him as a power #2 guy, but considering he can throw something like 7 different pitchs for consistant strikes he's got enough stuff to fall back on.

    Schil is gonna be Schil. He's gonna use his head and continue getting big games in most spots and getting beat in others. He's a better #3 than what all but a few other teams are gonna offer.

    Bucholz is really the wild card. If he can step in and have a good/decent year, it's gonna be a scary enough rotation even without Johan.


    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Basically, I think it comes down to money. There is actually a limit to how much John Henry will spend, and I don't think he was willing to give Johan 6 years/$120 million or whatever when we have Lester/Bucholz who will both be up here at 1/10th of that price and won't even hit arbitration for several more years. As a fan, I don't care about the checkbook, so I want Johan, but there is obviously a real-world out there too, I suppose.
    I don't think it really has much to do with money, to be honest. They're already the second largest payroll, by far, and have a huge national fanbase to carry them.

    I think it's about the direction of the future. For years they competed with the Yanks in trying to land that big free agent or get that big move right before the deadline. It didn't work out to good for them.

    Now they're keeping their prospects instead of using them in trades and it's working out. They just processed one of the best closers, second basemans, and look like to have hit it with an OF and another pitcher.

    Why start trying to land big names with prospects again when developing players just got you another ring and it looks like you're already in line to really have a shot this year at back-to-back?

    Giving up those players would change your philosophy again, something I think they shouldn't do.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    All true.

    But you need to remember that us Red Sox fans all turned into insatiable a$$holes that are legitimately expecting to wins three more rings by 2012. And I wish I could say that was a joke.
    I hear ya, but I think they're more than capable of doing that with or without Johan. Would it be easier from a pitching stand point? Hell yes. But I would hate to see them give up a lot of production for years to come from everyday players for one that's gonna play every five games or so, when you're already wheeling and dealing from the mound with what you got.

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    Member BoomBaby31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Johan Santana to NY Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    would have been nice to get him because having a 1-2 of santana and becket would be mind-numbingly awesome. but i'm more than happy to keep our prospects and keep him out of the AL east.
    If the Red Sox would of got Santana it would of been the best rotation in Baseball history.

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