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Thread: To all IU fans...

  1. #51
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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I have a strong feeling you don't understand much.

    I assume this is directed at me, correct? I could respond in kind, however due to your obvious immaturity, I won't.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Well sorry but I don't feel slighted.

    You don't understand because you don't agree with what your answer will be. You have been put on record that no matter how stupid or retarded a rule is, it must be followed because it is a rule.

    When asked if you follow simple rules, like speeding limits, you fail to understand the logic of the argument.

    Simply put: You're choosing which rules people should follow and judge them on it, while choosing which rules you choose to follow and plead the 5th when called on it.

    Hypocrisy at it's finest.

    For the record, I could careless if you go 56 mph in a 55 zone, or even go 65. You set yourself up with your mightier than thou speech about how all rules no matter what should be followed. Being mature also means admitting you were wrong, so excuse me if I don't loose any sleep at being called immature.

  3. #53

    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    When I got a speeding ticket once, I didn't drive the rest of the way home at 10 mph over the limit. Apparently, Kelvin would.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraft View Post
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    When I got a speeding ticket once, I didn't drive the rest of the way home at 10 mph over the limit. Apparently, Kelvin would.
    Have you gone over the speed limit since? Maybe that once getting caught was enough to put you on the straight and narrow for the rest of your life. I commend you.

    As far as it goes, I don't really care one way or the other about this subject we keep arguing about. It's just funny to keep it going, because since86 is right. Choosing which rules to be a hardass about and being unbending about it is pretty comical sometimes.



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  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by heywoode View Post
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    Have you gone over the speed limit since? Maybe that once getting caught was enough to put you on the straight and narrow for the rest of your life. I commend you.
    I could care less about speeding, phone calls, jaywalking, tax evasion or anything in between.

    Like I've said already ...

    The violations were just the conduit. It was Sampson's pure arrogance.
    To me, it's about the person, what the conduct means, how it represents the program and the message you want to send out to your fans, potential recruits and your peers.

    When Sampson's violations were first reported, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I supported the program. He said he could change. Obviously, he didn't.

    He fooled me once. Not again.

    I don't have any major disdain for Sampson and IU. There's programs like that one, and many worse, all over the country. I just decided there's a better option for my support. It just so happens to be my alma mater, too.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraft View Post
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    I could care less about speeding, phone calls, jaywalking, tax evasion or anything in between.

    Like I've said already ...



    To me, it's about the person, what the conduct means, how it represents the program and the message you want to send out to your fans, potential recruits and your peers.

    When Sampson's violations were first reported, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I supported the program. He said he could change. Obviously, he didn't.

    He fooled me once. Not again.

    I don't have any major disdain for Sampson and IU. There's programs like that one, and many worse, all over the country. I just decided there's a better option for my support. It just so happens to be my alma mater, too.
    Well, if you could care less about the rules violations you mention, does that mean that blatant disregard for rules is a conduit for YOUR arrogance? The problem I have is that people seem to be judging him because he callously broke a rule that seems obviously a technicality and not that big of a deal. If you don't see speeding as that big of a violation (and really, the police don't either...you can get multiple tickets and simply pay a fine and keep driving. You really have to make it a habit before the next stage, and that is only defensive driving courses to regain some points and you are again back driving...) and are willing to do it, how is that any different than Sampson thinking the phone calls rule is bogus and choosing to violate it a couple of times?

    I'm not trying to convince you to come back to the IU side; far from it. I just can't see the logic in the argument that he is condemned as an arrogant, chronic rulebreaker who reflects badly on the program because of the relatively minor stuff he has been caught doing.



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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Which is exactly my point. Every single sport program at every single NCAA sanctioned university breaks rules every year, and I would be willing to bet that they break them weekly.

    They over do practice/meeting times, by giving them "non-mandatory" statuses, or they say that if the practice facility isn't near campus that transportation will be provided but you don't have to ride their bus. Yeah right!

    I will say I know one university that did the exact thing with the transportation when practicing for a recent bowl game when they didn't have an indoor facility and needed to practice at a professional stadium.

    I imagine most violations have to do with the above mentioned rules or with regards to attendance to classes.

    To say a program disgusts you because of multiple violations over something so minute shows you're looking for a reason to dislike them, which is fine but just label it as such. You're 100% completely niave to think that a program doesn't violate NCAA rules, because I know little things happen everyday against the rules at my college.

    I mean if you really really wanna get picky then you need to start being disgusted at every NCAA athlete that drinks a RedBull energy drink, or consumes alcohol, because both are on the NCAA ban substance list and carries the same punishment from the NCAA as would a failed drug test, which is an automatic 30day suspension no questions asked.

    Are you going to stop watching your favorite team because you see a player drink an energy drink? Get real. But at the same time, they're in violation of the NCAA banned substance clause.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Which is exactly my point. Every single sport program at every single NCAA sanctioned university breaks rules every year, and I would be willing to bet that they break them weekly.

    They over do practice/meeting times, by giving them "non-mandatory" statuses, or they say that if the practice facility isn't near campus that transportation will be provided but you don't have to ride their bus. Yeah right!

    I will say I know one university that did the exact thing with the transportation when practicing for a recent bowl game when they didn't have an indoor facility and needed to practice at a professional stadium.

    I imagine most violations have to do with the above mentioned rules or with regards to attendance to classes.

    To say a program disgusts you because of multiple violations over something so minute shows you're looking for a reason to dislike them, which is fine but just label it as such. You're 100% completely niave to think that a program doesn't violate NCAA rules, because I know little things happen everyday against the rules at my college.

    I mean if you really really wanna get picky then you need to start being disgusted at every NCAA athlete that drinks a RedBull energy drink, or consumes alcohol, because both are on the NCAA ban substance list and carries the same punishment from the NCAA as would a failed drug test, which is an automatic 30day suspension no questions asked.

    Are you going to stop watching your favorite team because you see a player drink an energy drink? Get real. But at the same time, they're in violation of the NCAA banned substance clause.

    EDIT: I was wrong. Sorry.
    Last edited by Stryder; 02-04-2008 at 07:57 PM.

  9. #59

    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by heywoode View Post
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    ... how is that any different than Sampson thinking the phone calls rule is bogus and choosing to violate it a couple of times?
    Well, here's probably where the two sides are different.

    I don't think that Sampson considers the rule bogus. I'm sure he knows why it's a rule -- and maybe even agrees with it. And I'm sure if he was on the other side of the fence, he'd be just a pissed.

    Sampson violated the rule, on more than one occasion, because it gave him a competitive advantage. He's not stupid; he knew exactly what he was doing. He thought he could beat everyone else by breaking a rule.

    It's certainly not the worst transgression. But as a former IU fan, I had no idea where Sampson would stop.

    Is there such thing as a gateway NCAA violation?

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Every single sport program at every single NCAA sanctioned university breaks rules every year, and I would be willing to bet that they break them weekly.
    For the most part, this is true.

    You should see some of the self-reporting forms I've gone through. Player X left her car at Coach X's house over the summer. Since storage can cost money, that's a violation. There's a lot of it that's silly.

    I just don't consider Sampson's offenses silly. There's just too much volume there.

    I think there's a line that can be drawn -- if you don't, that's fine, it's your opinion -- and that Sampson came down on the wrong side of it. And he did it knowingly.

  11. #61
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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    [quote=Since86;651700]Well sorry but I don't feel slighted.

    You don't understand because you don't agree with what your answer will be. You have been put on record that no matter how stupid or retarded a rule is, it must be followed because it is a rule.

    When asked if you follow simple rules, like speeding limits, you fail to understand the logic of the argument.

    Simply put: You're choosing which rules people should follow and judge them on it, while choosing which rules you choose to follow and plead the 5th when called on it.

    Hypocrisy at it's finest.

    Back up Jr., if you are going to throw out names be prepared to back them up with facts. First of all, where did I state that it is ok to speed, even with your ignorant example of going 1 MPH over the limit? Save yourself some time, I didn't. I have been driving for 50 plus years without any tickets, so if that is being a f&**&ng hypocrite than I guess I am.

    If all the other coaches are violating the rule that Sampson broke twice, why haven't they been caught? Do you really believe that the NCAA is turning their head on these coaches and just picking on Sampson?

    And yes, calling someone a hyocrite without facts, illustrates your lack of objectivity and a lack of a moral compass.

  12. #62
    Huge Member heywoode's Avatar
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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    I think they figured out about Sampson's phone calls as he was leaving his last job. After that, sure they were watching for it....

    Just because you haven't been ticketed doesn't mean you haven't been blatantly breaking the rules for 50 plus years. I'm not saying you have, but lack of getting caught proves nothing. Kinda like all the other coaches who find ways around the stupid rules to give themselves a competitive advantage......

    I'm not calling you a hypocrite (I know your post wasn't directed at me since you quoted S86), but I still believe that if you are choosing what rules to follow and what ones to break, and then calling someone else out for doing the same thing.....it doesn't really seem like a good thing to do.

    In other news, maybe we can make all this a moot point!

    Myles Brand is gone, and Bob Knight seems to be available......IU could drop the rule breaking scofflaw and bring back the savior/biggest pr!ck on the planet....



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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56 View Post
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    Sorry, I just don't understand your logic that breaking a rule because you think it is stupid, is ok.



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  14. #64

    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force
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    Ghandi disagrees...


    For some reason, I'm not sure this is what he had in mind.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by heywoode View Post
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    I think they figured out about Sampson's phone calls as he was leaving his last job. After that, sure they were watching for it....

    Just because you haven't been ticketed doesn't mean you haven't been blatantly breaking the rules for 50 plus years. I'm not saying you have, but lack of getting caught proves nothing. Kinda like all the other coaches who find ways around the stupid rules to give themselves a competitive advantage......

    I'm not calling you a hypocrite (I know your post wasn't directed at me since you quoted S86), but I still believe that if you are choosing what rules to follow and what ones to break, and then calling someone else out for doing the same thing.....it doesn't really seem like a good thing to do.

    In other news, maybe we can make all this a moot point!



    Myles Brand is gone, and Bob Knight seems to be available......IU could drop the rule breaking scofflaw and bring back the savior/biggest pr!ck on the planet....

    Again, where did I state the I choose which rules to follow and which ones to break? I think that another poster insinuated that is what I do. I advocate following all laws and rules, regardless if I believe that they are stupid laws or rules.

    doesn't mean you haven't been blatantly breaking the rules for 50 plus years.

    Oh come on! That makes no sense at all. The law of averages would see to it that if one was blatantly breaking speed limits, a long list of tickets.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Then answer the question.

    Do you speed?

    A long list of tickets? Please.

    I'm never at or under the speed limit and I have one to my name, which I just recently got and it was because it was in a DUI watch zone. 90% of drivers on the road are above the speed limit if they're not accelerating from a recent stop.
    Last edited by Since86; 02-05-2008 at 12:36 PM.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    This is just getting silly.

    I know what the truth is. I think we ALL do.

    Arguments can be made for or against, but the truth is the truth.

    Believe it or not, I don't care.



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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Exactly.

    I wonder Elgin. Do you drive 56 when the speed LIMIT is posted at 55? If you do, then you are guilty of breaking a law. What kind of example are you setting to your grandkids by breaking the law and putting everyone else in danger?

    I know I'm late to this, but that is a ridiculous example.

    Who are you putting at risk when you go 1 MPH over the speed limit, or even 5 MPH over? Don't tell me wrecks are caused by someone going a MPH over the speed limit because they aren't. I don't think drivers going 5 or even 10 MPH over the speed limit is the cause of most wrecks either (because everyone does it).

    The only thing you are risking going a MPH or 5 MPH is getting a ticket. And we all know that cops usually don't ticket for 5 MPH over. You aren't really putting anyone else in danger when you do that and to argue that you are is silly.

    On the other hand, breaking rules like Sampson did at Oklahoma and then breaking the same rules again at Indiana not only puts Sampson at risk, it puts the entire program at risk as well as the school and players. A little different effect than going 56 in a 55. It's not the actual rule itself that ticks people off (most agree it might be petty), it's the fact that he broke it twice and KNEW he couldn't do it...showing a blatant disregard for the rules. Just like it's not the actual sexual act with Lewinsky that got Clinton in trouble, it's the fact that that he lied and covered it up.

    I think an example that would be better than the brilliant "56 in a 55" would be to use an example of how a normal worker would be treated by their employer if they broke a rule.

    Say you work at an investment bank and you when you are boss says you aren't allowed to go gloat about deals at bars or whatever to your buddies. They have a policy in place that what goes on at the firm doesn't leave the firm. Is it a petty rule? Perhaps. Do people that work at other banks gloat? Definitely. But say you do it and get caught. Are you fired? Pretty damn likely. Are you fired just because you broke the rule? No. You're fired because you knew that you couldn't break the rule but did it anyway.

    No one forced you to work at the bank. It was your decision to work there. But it's their firm and they can have whatever rules they want. Work somewhere else if you don't like it. Same with Sampson. Maybe it's a petty rule, but no one is forcing him to work int he NCAA.

    That a much more applicable example to this situation than the silly "56 in a 55" example that you brought forth.

    And I'm a soph at IU and a diehard fan with season tix.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 02-13-2008 at 03:31 PM.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987 View Post
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    I know I'm late to this, but that is a ridiculous example.

    Who are you putting at risk when you go 1 MPH over the speed limit, or even 5 MPH over? Don't tell me wrecks are caused by someone going a MPH over the speed limit because they aren't. I don't think drivers going 5 or even 10 MPH over the speed limit is the cause of most wrecks either (because everyone does it).

    The only thing you are risking going a MPH or 5 MPH is getting a ticket. And we all know that cops usually don't ticket for 5 MPH over. You aren't really putting anyone else in danger when you do that and to argue that you are is silly.
    You missed the point entirely.

    I never made the comment that going 1 MPH over the speed limit put people at risk, nor 5 MPH, nor 10 MHP over.

    Your second paragraph gets to what I was talking about. Why would you get a ticket? Because speeding is against the law. By speeding, you are breaking a rule.

    He said that EVERY rule should be followed, no matter the rule, so I asked him if he ever speeds because then he would be knowingly breaking a rule.

    It's not a silly argument. Petty? Yes.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56
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    Rationalize all that you want to, I ain't buying that BS on that every coach is cheating, yes I said CHEATING. Gee, I think that I will tell my grandkids that they can cheat on their tests because I think every other kid is also cheating. Come on give me a break. If that many other coaches were doing what Sampson did, they would be caught and punished as he was.

    Retarded rules or not, they are the freaking rules for all of the coaches. We as individuals just can't pick and choose which rules we will abide by or which ones we will violate, and neither can coaches.
    Last edited by Since86; 02-13-2008 at 03:56 PM.

  20. #70

    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Sampson is about to leave the scene of an accident after going 120 mph with BAC of .23.

    Everyone wave bye!

  21. #71
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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    O.K. I'll put my in.

    I admit it I speed. If you've driven in NJ or Detroit it's either speed or get run over. However, if I'd gotten a ticket and I knew the next one was going to cost me my $500,000 bonus you can bet your hind end my cruise control would be set at least 1 mile UNDER the limit.

    And as for car accidents I wasn't even up to speed yet when I got t-bone by some bone head who ran a stop sign. Not sure how that correlates to NCAA infractions.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You missed the point entirely.

    I never made the comment that going 1 MPH over the speed limit put people at risk, nor 5 MPH, nor 10 MHP over.

    Your second paragraph gets to what I was talking about. Why would you get a ticket? Because speeding is against the law. By speeding, you are breaking a rule.

    He said that EVERY rule should be followed, no matter the rule, so I asked him if he ever speeds because then he would be knowingly breaking a rule.

    It's not a silly argument. Petty? Yes.

    EDIT:
    Welllllll, how about admitting that I was right about Sampson? It will only hurt for a little while.

  23. #73
    Huge Member heywoode's Avatar
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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    I'm not saying I like what he is doing to IU's reputation, but then again, IU has been upfront and forthcoming with everything, and even the NCAA is saying that IU is pretty much a victim here. So far, IU has been harder on themselves than the NCAA has been on them. He lied to the NCAA as much as he lied to IU. That will probably be his undoing.

    Since86 is still right, rules get broken all the time, and there are no white knights. He is also right about the analogy. You come off as pretty self-righteous and preachy.

    That's fine. You don't like the guy, and your reasons aren't totally bad or wrong ones. I'll admit I'm fine with IU firing Sampson and I'm fine with admitting the guy is a chronic rule breaker. I wanted to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but not sure he deserves it anymore.

    How about you admitting that your statement about the absoluteness of following rules was a little over the top?



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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by grace View Post
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    O.K. I'll put my in.

    I admit it I speed. If you've driven in NJ or Detroit it's either speed or get run over. However, if I'd gotten a ticket and I knew the next one was going to cost me my $500,000 bonus you can bet your hind end my cruise control would be set at least 1 mile UNDER the limit.

    And as for car accidents I wasn't even up to speed yet when I got t-bone by some bone head who ran a stop sign. Not sure how that correlates to NCAA infractions.
    I've gotten speeding tickets three times and deferred them on each occasion, which means you pay the fine but if you do not get another ticket for one year then it never goes on your driving record i.e. no points lost. It's like it did not happen except your wallet gets lighter. So in essence, I've been on "probation" three times and I was certainly very careful about my driving habits at those times. Unlike Kelvin, I at least waited until I was off probation to blatantly break the rules again.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by heywoode View Post
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    I'm not saying I like what he is doing to IU's reputation, but then again, IU has been upfront and forthcoming with everything, and even the NCAA is saying that IU is pretty much a victim here. So far, IU has been harder on themselves than the NCAA has been on them. He lied to the NCAA as much as he lied to IU. That will probably be his undoing.

    Since86 is still right, rules get broken all the time, and there are no white knights. He is also right about the analogy. You come off as pretty self-righteous and preachy.

    That's fine. You don't like the guy, and your reasons aren't totally bad or wrong ones. I'll admit I'm fine with IU firing Sampson and I'm fine with admitting the guy is a chronic rule breaker. I wanted to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but not sure he deserves it anymore.

    How about you admitting that your statement about the absoluteness of following rules was a little over the top?

    Preachy? Funny, that's what my wife says about me sometimes.

    Don't you know that I am never wrong?

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