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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yes because we all know that IU is the only school getting caught for recruiting violations.

    The NCAA is built on retarded rules (yes I know rules are rules) but when they start looking into John Wooden because he bought Kevin Love a meal and is still on their payrole, you know they'll jump on anything.

    Majerius was punished for buying some of his players fast food meals when they were on the road, and I guaruntee that he didn't lose any PR battles in the public eye.

    Can't make any more telephone calls? Easy. Text them and tell them to call you. Problem solved.

    This is the same organization that accepted Ball State's self-imposed punishment during the textbook "scandal" then three years later decided it wasn't good enough and refined them.

    Every coach in every sport in every NCAA sactioned college breaks multiple NCAA rules every season. You're just plain niave if you think there's one person out there squeaky clean.

    The number or hours for practice would easily be the number one thing. I know of programs that have had players kicked off the team for missing too many nonmadatory team functions.

    But yeah, too many phone calls sure takes away the joy and leaves an empty feeling.

    And then we can get on the subject that NCAA bans any athlete, no matter the age, against consuming alcohol and even caffine. Having one can of Red Bull, or even coffee will give them a positive drug test.
    I agree with you, pal...

    Myles Brand is right at home atop his throne of power. I swear he has a red phone that only rings when David Stern or satan calls........

    I don't have a problem with Sampson, didn't have much problem with Davis except he quit winning, and I really didn't have much problem with Knight (yeah, I called him by his last name...) except that he was mostly an *******. I think IU basketball is just fine.

    Good luck purists. I'm still waiting on Oral Roberts U. to make the Top 20...Oh wait, isn't their namesake's son, the president, in some hot water, or is that is allegedly adulterous wife?



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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yes because we all know that IU is the only school getting caught for recruiting violations.

    The NCAA is built on retarded rules (yes I know rules are rules) but when they start looking into John Wooden because he bought Kevin Love a meal and is still on their payrole, you know they'll jump on anything.

    Majerius was punished for buying some of his players fast food meals when they were on the road, and I guaruntee that he didn't lose any PR battles in the public eye.

    Can't make any more telephone calls? Easy. Text them and tell them to call you. Problem solved.

    This is the same organization that accepted Ball State's self-imposed punishment during the textbook "scandal" then three years later decided it wasn't good enough and refined them.

    Every coach in every sport in every NCAA sactioned college breaks multiple NCAA rules every season. You're just plain niave if you think there's one person out there squeaky clean.

    The number or hours for practice would easily be the number one thing. I know of programs that have had players kicked off the team for missing too many nonmadatory team functions.

    But yeah, too many phone calls sure takes away the joy and leaves an empty feeling.

    And then we can get on the subject that NCAA bans any athlete, no matter the age, against consuming alcohol and even caffine. Having one can of Red Bull, or even coffee will give them a positive drug test.

    Rationalize all that you want to, I ain't buying that BS on that every coach is cheating, yes I said CHEATING. Gee, I think that I will tell my grandkids that they can cheat on their tests because I think every other kid is also cheating. Come on give me a break. If that many other coaches were doing what Sampson did, they would be caught and punished as he was.

    Retarded rules or not, they are the freaking rules for all of the coaches. We as individuals just can't pick and choose which rules we will abide by or which ones we will violate, and neither can coaches.

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    Huge Member heywoode's Avatar
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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    yawn



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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by heywoode View Post
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    yawn
    Exactly.

    I wonder Elgin. Do you drive 56 when the speed LIMIT is posted at 55? If you do, then you are guilty of breaking a law. What kind of example are you setting to your grandkids by breaking the law and putting everyone else in danger?

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56 View Post
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    Yep, however it seems as though you and I are in the minority on this, and most fans are just interested in the bottom line, winning at any cost. If IU did win it all this year or any year with Sampson as their coach, it would leave me with an empty feeling with no joy in their accomplishment.
    Did it also give you an empty feeling when a guy like Knight won championships at IU?

    I'll take a cheater over a selfish, disrespectful ******* anyday. An I abhor cheating.

    Let's be realistic here. Sampson isn't paying off players or committing academic fraud. There are different degrees of rules violations. That's why people aren't sentenced to death for jaywalking, which is essentially what you're pushing for here.

    (Btw, if Sampson cheats AGAIN, no matter how minor, I want him gone. Period.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Did it also give you an empty feeling when a guy like Knight won championships at IU?

    I'll take a cheater over a selfish, disrespectful ******* anyday. An I abhor cheating.

    Let's be realistic here. Sampson isn't paying off players or committing academic fraud. There are different degrees of rules violations. That's why people aren't sentenced to death for jaywalking, which is essentially what you're pushing for here.

    (Btw, if Sampson cheats AGAIN, no matter how minor, I want him gone. Period.)

    Did it also give you an empty feeling when a guy like Knight won championships at IU?

    No.

    I'll take a cheater over a selfish, disrespectful ******* anyday. An I abhor cheating.

    Did you play for Knight? Try asking some of his former players(the ones who stuck it out), what they think of him.

    There are different degrees of rules violations

    Yes, and he has been caught TWICE, violating the same rule. Says a lot for his respect for rules, right?


    if Sampson cheats AGAIN, no matter how minor, I want him gone. Period.)[/quote]


    Sorry breaking the same rule twice is enough for me.

    Let's be realistic here. Sampson isn't paying off players or committing academic fraud.

    Check his graduation rates when he was at Oklahoma, talk about academic fraud.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Exactly.

    I wonder Elgin. Do you drive 56 when the speed LIMIT is posted at 55? If you do, then you are guilty of breaking a law. What kind of example are you setting to your grandkids by breaking the law and putting everyone else in danger?

    Poor example, doesn't deserve a rebuttal.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56 View Post
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    Poor example, doesn't deserve a rebuttal.
    Oh, so you pick and choose which rules are good enough to follow?

    If you go over the speed limit by 1 mph, your breaking the law. 1-15 mph over the posted limit is considered a class D moving infraction.

    How is it a poor example? It's a rule and rules aren't supposed to be broken, no matter how small or how retarded, remember?

    If you don't remember I'll remind you:
    Retarded rules or not, they are the freaking rules for all of the coaches. We as individuals just can't pick and choose which rules we will abide by or which ones we will violate, and neither can coaches.
    Again, what kind of example are you setting by speeding? You don't offer a rebuttal, because you don't have one.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yes because we all know that IU is the only school getting caught for recruiting violations.

    The NCAA is built on retarded rules (yes I know rules are rules) but when they start looking into John Wooden because he bought Kevin Love a meal and is still on their payrole, you know they'll jump on anything.

    Majerius was punished for buying some of his players fast food meals when they were on the road, and I guaruntee that he didn't lose any PR battles in the public eye.

    Can't make any more telephone calls? Easy. Text them and tell them to call you. Problem solved.

    This is the same organization that accepted Ball State's self-imposed punishment during the textbook "scandal" then three years later decided it wasn't good enough and refined them.

    Every coach in every sport in every NCAA sactioned college breaks multiple NCAA rules every season. You're just plain niave if you think there's one person out there squeaky clean.

    The number or hours for practice would easily be the number one thing. I know of programs that have had players kicked off the team for missing too many nonmadatory team functions.

    But yeah, too many phone calls sure takes away the joy and leaves an empty feeling.

    And then we can get on the subject that NCAA bans any athlete, no matter the age, against consuming alcohol and even caffine. Having one can of Red Bull, or even coffee will give them a positive drug test.

    It's not about the rule itself, it's the fact that he was caught twice breaking the rule. That just shows a blatant disrespect for rules and paints him out to have an attitude that he is above them.

    And I am a soph at IU that has tickets and loves the team. I respect the life that Sampson has brought back into the program and think that he is a very good coach. The incident doesn't bother me that much at all, but I certainly understand why some are disgusted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Oh, so you pick and choose which rules are good enough to follow?

    If you go over the speed limit by 1 mph, your breaking the law. 1-15 mph over the posted limit is considered a class D moving infraction.

    How is it a poor example? It's a rule and rules aren't supposed to be broken, no matter how small or how retarded, remember?

    If you don't remember I'll remind you:


    Again, what kind of example are you setting by speeding? You don't offer a rebuttal, because you don't have one.

    You know and I know that going one mph over the posted speed limit is a bogus arguement and I will leave it at that. My new kinder gentler self prevents me from really saying what I think of your line of reasoning.

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    Huge Member heywoode's Avatar
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    Hey, don't spare any wrath. I, for one, would rather you state what you feel.

    I agree with Since86. One could argue that limiting the number of phone calls a guy can make to a recruit is as retarded as getting a ticket for 56 in a 55mph zone. If you don't think it's a valid comparison, all that does is prove 86's point. You don't have the respect for the speed limit you ought to have. Take it one step further and ask if you've gotten two speeding tickets, or two parking tickets, or made two of the same mistake before....It never stops when you start sentences with the word "Technically". Either it is or it isn't.

    As long as kids aren't being paid (hell, they probably ARE. It is probably unrealistic to think that anyone is playing by the rules anymore.) and getting grades handed to them, I'm not that worried about it. Really, we could have the argument that maybe the athletes SHOULD be paid given the vast sums of money they bring to their schools by performing at a high level...Why should the schools lap up the gravy when the athletes are the ones who put asses in the seats to watch them perform and bring the in the tournament revenue.

    Sampson doesn't have as much class as I would like, but he's not totally classless either. IU could do a lot worse.

    I'm happy that the team seems to have decent players and decent kids, and that they are playing pretty much up to potential and not getting in trouble. I'm not gonna go look for stuff to be upset about or try to find things to hang a cloud over. This isn't "just win, baby" with Artest and Jackson and PacMan....

    Heck, I'm so hunky-dorey right now, I've even been rooting for the Boilers!




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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by heywoode View Post
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    Hey, don't spare any wrath. I, for one, would rather you state what you feel.

    I agree with Since86. One could argue that limiting the number of phone calls a guy can make to a recruit is as retarded as getting a ticket for 56 in a 55mph zone. If you don't think it's a valid comparison, all that does is prove 86's point. You don't have the respect for the speed limit you ought to have. Take it one step further and ask if you've gotten two speeding tickets, or two parking tickets, or made two of the same mistake before....It never stops when you start sentences with the word "Technically". Either it is or it isn't.

    As long as kids aren't being paid (hell, they probably ARE. It is probably unrealistic to think that anyone is playing by the rules anymore.) and getting grades handed to them, I'm not that worried about it. Really, we could have the argument that maybe the athletes SHOULD be paid given the vast sums of money they bring to their schools by performing at a high level...Why should the schools lap up the gravy when the athletes are the ones who put asses in the seats to watch them perform and bring the in the tournament revenue.

    Sampson doesn't have as much class as I would like, but he's not totally classless either. IU could do a lot worse.

    I'm happy that the team seems to have decent players and decent kids, and that they are playing pretty much up to potential and not getting in trouble. I'm not gonna go look for stuff to be upset about or try to find things to hang a cloud over. This isn't "just win, baby" with Artest and Jackson and PacMan....

    Heck, I'm so hunky-dorey right now, I've even been rooting for the Boilers!


    I suppose time will tell whether your line of reasoning is correct. I believe that Sampson will in the long run bring the program through the mud. Past history is a damn good predictor of the future.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Well, given what IU put up with from Bob Knight over 29 years, I'm inclined to believe Sampson has quite a bit of latitude.

    I hope it doesn't happen and that the program can regain the prominence it had under Knight, but without the wondering when the next head gasket is going to blow.



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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by heywoode View Post
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    Well, given what IU put up with from Bob Knight over 29 years, I'm inclined to believe Sampson has quite a bit of latitude.

    I hope it doesn't happen and that the program can regain the prominence it had under Knight, but without the wondering when the next head gasket is going to blow.

    I don't pretend that Knight had his share of problems, however the media coverage that was negative was almost entirely aimed at him and not at the University. Now with Sampson, I think that his transgressions directly reflect badly on IU, as they knew from the get go, that he had a bad reputation and now they are allowing him to remain as coach after he breaks the same damn rule again. I believe that there is a huge difference in one coache's boorish behavior towards mainly the media and a coach that is a serial cheat. Of course that is just one old man's opinion.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56 View Post
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    I don't pretend that Knight had his share of problems, however the media coverage that was negative was almost entirely aimed at him and not at the University. Now with Sampson, I think that his transgressions directly reflect badly on IU, as they knew from the get go, that he had a bad reputation and now they are allowing him to remain as coach after he breaks the same damn rule again. I believe that there is a huge difference in one coache's boorish behavior towards mainly the media and a coach that is a serial cheat. Of course that is just one old man's opinion.
    Well, I think Knight's behavior was just as much directed at his players, staff, and athletic department as it was at the media. The only people he treated with respect were his family or the people who spent their time trailing his heels with their tails between their legs.

    It reflected badly on the university for his entire tenure that the university allowed the behavior. The entire reason that he was fired was because IU was backed into a corner and had to institute a 'zero tolerance policy' after they got called out for condoning his behavior. As soon as the "ZTP" was put in place, the clock was ticking, and everyone who breathes air knew it.

    Some of Knight's behavior was just as bad or worse than cheating, so I'm inclined to give Sampson a few benefits of the doubt. Knight sure got a free pass for a couple-three decades.



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    Quote Originally Posted by heywoode View Post
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    Well, I think Knight's behavior was just as much directed at his players, staff, and athletic department as it was at the media. The only people he treated with respect were his family or the people who spent their time trailing his heels with their tails between their legs.

    It reflected badly on the university for his entire tenure that the university allowed the behavior. The entire reason that he was fired was because IU was backed into a corner and had to institute a 'zero tolerance policy' after they got called out for condoning his behavior. As soon as the "ZTP" was put in place, the clock was ticking, and everyone who breathes air knew it.

    Some of Knight's behavior was just as bad or worse than cheating, so I'm inclined to give Sampson a few benefits of the doubt. Knight sure got a free pass for a couple-three decades.

    Soooo, should IU give back the million dollars he raised for the library?

    IU is being hypocritical by firing Knight with a "ZTP" and not following up on what Sampson did.

    As I told another poster, try asking former players (the ones who stuck it out), about Knight.

    Sampson has had two free passes and yet you still defend him. It is my understanding that Sampson was under a "ZTP" when he was hired. The only reason he wasn't fired was because of fat boy(AD). If he had fired Sampson, he would have been fired himself for hireing him in the first place.

    Some of Knight's behavior was just as bad or worse than cheating, so I'm inclined to give Sampson a few benefits of the doubt.

    You are kidding, right? Cheating goes to the integrity of the game, while being a pr#ck only hurts some one's feelings.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56 View Post
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    Soooo, should IU give back the million dollars he raised for the library?

    IU is being hypocritical by firing Knight with a "ZTP" and not following up on what Sampson did.

    As I told another poster, try asking former players (the ones who stuck it out), about Knight.

    Sampson has had two free passes and yet you still defend him. It is my understanding that Sampson was under a "ZTP" when he was hired. The only reason he wasn't fired was because of fat boy(AD). If he had fired Sampson, he would have been fired himself for hireing him in the first place.

    Some of Knight's behavior was just as bad or worse than cheating, so I'm inclined to give Sampson a few benefits of the doubt.

    You are kidding, right? Cheating goes to the integrity of the game, while being a pr#ck only hurts some one's feelings.
    I refuse to use the fact that someone raised money as an excuse for their behavior. I'm quite sure the library would've gotten contributions from somewhere. It's not like the wrecking ball was sitting outside and Knight swooped in and saved the day...

    Knight only got a ZTP after 27 or more years of abusing his authority and doing stuff to embarrass himself and the university. Sampson might have a little ways to go to catch up with that track record.

    The cheating referred to in my post is the 'making too many phone calls' variety cheating, not point shaving. I refuse to believe that most everybody in college athletics is a boy scout and Kelvin Sampson is the devil for making too many phone calls. All kinds of little violations happen every single day and really are more like a bunch of attorneys in a room with no windows arguing technicalities all day long.

    I get it. You don't like Sampson. You aren't going to be satisfied until IU fires him, has him drawn and quartered in front of Assembly Hall, and then have them hire Ned Flanders to lead them into the Promised Land.

    Knight was, and still is, one of the biggest pricks in all of sports. I don't care that he would give a friend of his the shirt off his back, or he raised money for the library, or whatever. NOTHING is a proper excuse for acting the way he does MOST OF THE TIME.

    I have worked for someone like him, someone who is completely unpredictable and could snap at any moment for even the most trivial thing. It isn't fun. In fact, it is the worst possible scenario. I don't care who the player or staff member is, past or present, I'm certain at many different times they have wanted to hit him in the back of the head with a shovel and fill in the hole he falls into. People like him have no excuse for making life miserable for most everyone else around them.

    I'm fine with Sampson as long as he doesn't get caught doing things that actually do degrade the integrity of the game.

    You don't have to be on board with my position on it, and I don't have to be on board with yours. I'm sorry, but I haven't read a good enough reason yet to make me reconsider my position.



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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by heywoode View Post
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    I refuse to use the fact that someone raised money as an excuse for their behavior. I'm quite sure the library would've gotten contributions from somewhere. It's not like the wrecking ball was sitting outside and Knight swooped in and saved the day...

    Knight only got a ZTP after 27 or more years of abusing his authority and doing stuff to embarrass himself and the university. Sampson might have a little ways to go to catch up with that track record.

    The cheating referred to in my post is the 'making too many phone calls' variety cheating, not point shaving. I refuse to believe that most everybody in college athletics is a boy scout and Kelvin Sampson is the devil for making too many phone calls. All kinds of little violations happen every single day and really are more like a bunch of attorneys in a room with no windows arguing technicalities all day long.

    I get it. You don't like Sampson. You aren't going to be satisfied until IU fires him, has him drawn and quartered in front of Assembly Hall, and then have them hire Ned Flanders to lead them into the Promised Land.

    Knight was, and still is, one of the biggest pricks in all of sports. I don't care that he would give a friend of his the shirt off his back, or he raised money for the library, or whatever. NOTHING is a proper excuse for acting the way he does MOST OF THE TIME.

    I have worked for someone like him, someone who is completely unpredictable and could snap at any moment for even the most trivial thing. It isn't fun. In fact, it is the worst possible scenario. I don't care who the player or staff member is, past or present, I'm certain at many different times they have wanted to hit him in the back of the head with a shovel and fill in the hole he falls into. People like him have no excuse for making life miserable for most everyone else around them.

    I'm fine with Sampson as long as he doesn't get caught doing things that actually do degrade the integrity of the game.

    You don't have to be on board with my position on it, and I don't have to be on board with yours. I'm sorry, but I haven't read a good enough reason yet to make me reconsider my position.

    Ever been in the military?

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56 View Post
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    Ever been in the military?
    Ever been in a Turkish prison?



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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    I agree that Knight can be a world class prick at times but the fact remains he coached the teams that won the titles unlike what Sampson has been able to do.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Here's my take on the rules Sampson allegedly broke:

    It's a lot like the "no chewing gum in class" rule... Break it and you're breaking a rule... but what does it matter?

    Let me know when Sampson is paying recruits, and I'll care. If he's talking to them on the phone too many times, then they can hang up if they don't want to talk to him and the NCAA can go find some real problems in college athletics.

    Is there even a point to this rule any longer?

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Here's my take on the rules Sampson allegedly broke:

    It's a lot like the "no chewing gum in class" rule... Break it and you're breaking a rule... but what does it matter?

    Let me know when Sampson is paying recruits, and I'll care. If he's talking to them on the phone too many times, then they can hang up if they don't want to talk to him and the NCAA can go find some real problems in college athletics.

    Is there even a point to this rule any longer?

    -Bball

    Sorry, I just don't understand your logic that breaking a rule because you think it is stupid, is ok.

    then they can hang up if they don't want to talk to him and the NCAA can go find some real problems in college athletics.

    I find this statement where you are trying to shift the blame to the recruit, ludicrous.

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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    I have a strong feeling you don't understand much.

  24. #49

    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    I grew up an IU basketball fan. Even four-and-a-half years as a Purdue student didn't deter this.

    Naturally, I never had much love for Gene Keady. But after having some interaction with him at school, I certainly grew to respect him more. And after Matt Painter arrived, I liked and respected him, too -- along with members of his coaching staff.

    Still, my love for the IU basketball team was there. And then came Kelvin Sampson. To be honest, I don't even know when I changed. One day, I was watching an IU game and not getting real into it. Then, watching the Boilers play Wisconsin, I was screaming at the television -- and the score was 6-4.

    I had changed. And, yes, it was for the better.

    Why did this happen? Was it a few stray phone calls? I don't think so. The violations were just the conduit. It was Sampson's pure arrogance. Bob Knight was a little of his rocker, but it wasn't true arrogance. Mike Davis couldn't coach, he was a likeable guy.

    Kelvin Sampson ... it's like he's Bill Belichick on the basketball court. I don't think I can support that guy. And I tried, believe me.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: To all IU fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraft View Post
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    I grew up an IU basketball fan. Even four-and-a-half years as a Purdue student didn't deter this.

    Naturally, I never had much love for Gene Keady. But after having some interaction with him at school, I certainly grew to respect him more. And after Matt Painter arrived, I liked and respected him, too -- along with members of his coaching staff.

    Still, my love for the IU basketball team was there. And then came Kelvin Sampson. To be honest, I don't even know when I changed. One day, I was watching an IU game and not getting real into it. Then, watching the Boilers play Wisconsin, I was screaming at the television -- and the score was 6-4.

    I had changed. And, yes, it was for the better.

    Why did this happen? Was it a few stray phone calls? I don't think so. The violations were just the conduit. It was Sampson's pure arrogance. Bob Knight was a little of his rocker, but it wasn't true arrogance. Mike Davis couldn't coach, he was a likeable guy.

    Kelvin Sampson ... it's like he's Bill Belichick on the basketball court. I don't think I can support that guy. And I tried, believe me.
    Me feelings, exactly. I grew up in a different time period than most posters here on this board and I don't share their lack of respect for the rules. Not in my wildest dreams could I see myself rooting for Purdue, until now. I enjoy the way
    they play a team style of ball. I have not been to an IU game since Sampson was hired and won't as long as he is coach. You know what? I have found that there are other teams out there, that are worthy of my support, Butler for one.

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