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Thread: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by efhead View Post
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    I was thinking that last night was a good example of how to play with JO. Tonight may be the example of when JO is solid, but we needed different things from him.
    Although a win is a win....I'm not going to look at the Kings game as a guage of how to run "Small ball". The Kings were severely undermanned and frankly were in a state of disarray with KMart's return and having to depend on Francisco Garcia and John Salmons as their primary scorers.

    Tonight "Small Ball" only worked for the 1st 3 QTRs cuz the Warriors played down to us......but in the end....the Warriors beat us at their own game.

    I will have to see how Small-Ball works against a fully manned team that isn't used to playing Small ball and don't continually run. We have only played Small Ball against the Suns, Kings and Warriors....2 of which are used to running a smaller lineup.

    But I'm not entirely convinced that this offense will work. I really think that we have to use pair Foster with Murphy more often. Murphy's poor defensive weaknesses really stand out and forces JONeal to play more defense. I am guessing that he was really tired by the end of the game.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Could you elaborate on what you mean by "trades were made to accomodate him"?

    I'm not going to fault him for the Warriors picking him as the 3rd pick in the draft...I'm not going to fault him for the Warriors conceding to overpay him they didn't have to during a time when EVERYONE was being overpaid. I can understand that he has always underperformed.....and that a change in scenery was really needed......but he is what he is what he is.
    Our then best player (after Arenas ditched us), Antawn Jamison, was traded specifically so Dunleavy could get into the starting lineup and assume his natural SF spot. Eric Musselman was then canned a year later, and a big reason for that was because he didn't get along with Dunleavy.

    I don't fault Dunleavy for a lot of things either. I'd lay 95% (or more) of the blame with Warrior management.

    But angst between the fans and Dunleavy runs further than just his underperformance on the court and his contract (as Murphy was probably even more overpaid but fans don't really give a sniff about him).

    We didn't like him, but it's not like we hate every ex-Warrior. Again, watch what happens when Jason Richardson makes his return. You'll see a completely opposite reception.

  3. #53

    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    I just got back from the game and wanted to chime in with my observations. Pretty simple stuff, Baron and Monta are just too damn good.

    Tinsley: He was somewhere else tonight. I was shocked to see that he had 11 assists. JT was very careless with the basketball tonight. Him and Granger had a pretty good confrontation/argument after Granger dropped his no-look pass. He also had words with Dunleavy over a few different plays (including the final play) Overall, he just seemed a step slow. Normally, he's the loudest PG in the league when it comes to calling for the outlet, tonight I didn't hear him once. We need him to bring it every night if we want to improve, otherwise we have to really look into dealing him. I know the Warriors have more talent, but the fact that we can't win a game when JO, Granger and Dunleavy all play well speaks volumes about Tinsley's value and importance to this team.

    Diener: I want to know what little Travis Diener could have possibly siad that could warrant a T. As for his play, a pretty predictable dud tonight following his breakout game. Warriors' guards are way too talented for him to have an impact especially when his shot isn't falling (the airball was disgusting)

    JO: I'm not a JO guy but he was a monster tonight. We need to convince him that every guy he goes against is an ex-Pacer (Harrington and Croshere guarded him 90% of the game) Both putbacks late in the game were not his fault. If we're going to play small Granger, Dunleavy and even Rush better crash the boards and cover the weakside.

    I was hoping to see the final play called for Rush, but instead we dumped it into JO hoping they would double down (they didn't) and he'd kick it out to the open shooter. Simply having Tinsley and Dunleavy interchange was not the smartest idea.

    I'm glad I'm not the only one upset with Foster getting a DNP-CD. Murphy should be the one not playing. I don't care that Foster can be an offensive liability, he brings energy and gives us second chances when most of our perimeter shots don't go in. (He looked pretty pissed after the game sitting in a golf cart in a corner of the hallway/tunnel waiting for the bus to leave)

    My final thought: I know he has fallen out of the rotation, but where the hell was Ike? He wasn't even in a suit. Did he have to accompany Harrison back to Indy?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by bnd45 View Post
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    I just got back from the game and wanted to chime in with my observations. Pretty simple stuff, Baron and Monta are just too damn good.

    Tinsley: He was somewhere else tonight. I was shocked to see that he had 11 assists. JT was very careless with the basketball tonight. Him and Granger had a pretty good confrontation/argument after Granger dropped his no-look pass. He also had words with Dunleavy over a few different plays (including the final play) Overall, he just seemed a step slow. Normally, he's the loudest PG in the league when it comes to calling for the outlet, tonight I didn't hear him once. We need him to bring it every night if we want to improve, otherwise we have to really look into dealing him. I know the Warriors have more talent, but the fact that we can't win a game when JO, Granger and Dunleavy all play well speaks volumes about Tinsley's value and importance to this team.

    Diener: I want to know what little Travis Diener could have possibly siad that could warrant a T. As for his play, a pretty predictable dud tonight following his breakout game. Warriors' guards are way too talented for him to have an impact especially when his shot isn't falling (the airball was disgusting)

    JO: I'm not a JO guy but he was a monster tonight. We need to convince him that every guy he goes against is an ex-Pacer (Harrington and Croshere guarded him 90% of the game) Both putbacks late in the game were not his fault. If we're going to play small Granger, Dunleavy and even Rush better crash the boards and cover the weakside.

    I was hoping to see the final play called for Rush, but instead we dumped it into JO hoping they would double down (they didn't) and he'd kick it out to the open shooter. Simply having Tinsley and Dunleavy interchange was not the smartest idea.

    I'm glad I'm not the only one upset with Foster getting a DNP-CD. Murphy should be the one not playing. I don't care that Foster can be an offensive liability, he brings energy and gives us second chances when most of our perimeter shots don't go in. (He looked pretty pissed after the game sitting in a golf cart in a corner of the hallway/tunnel waiting for the bus to leave)

    My final thought: I know he has fallen out of the rotation, but where the hell was Ike? He wasn't even in a suit. Did he have to accompany Harrison back to Indy?
    Hmmm... ironic you mention that because the game stats don't even list him as a DNP but do have Harrison on there. I was thinking this was just a mistake but now that you point out that he wasn't even there.....

    I wonder....


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Talking Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    O'Brien seems very happy with Mike

    (On Mike Dunleavy) “He was three assists away from a triple double that speaks for itself. He played a very good game and he’s been a wonderful, wonderful addition to our basketball team and I wouldn’t trade him for anybody.”

    I was hoping to see the final play called for Rush, but instead we dumped it into JO hoping they would double down (they didn't) and he'd kick it out to the open shooter. Simply having Tinsley and Dunleavy interchange was not the smartest idea.
    Yeh im with ya, Tinsley has taking a game winning shot, so has JO, so has Granger.

    So why not try and get Rush open for a look. In my mind his probably our best 3 point shooter.

    know he has fallen out of the rotation, but where the hell was Ike? He wasn't even in a suit. Did he have to accompany Harrison back to Indy?
    Warriors TV broadcast said Ike was inactive tonight and he was back in Indy, not sure why though??

    Man we deserved to win, lets get them on our home court. I expect all you Indiana fans going to the game to cheer our pacers on!

    AUSTRALIA'S NO.1 PACER FAN

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    So...what was the deal on the DNP for Jeff Foster???
    I'm sure it had to do with the fact that Austin Croshere was there. Those two are a drunken brawl just waiting to happen.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbry View Post
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    Caption this.

    It's immediately after JT misses the "drawn-up" three at the end that would've tied it.

    You mean we seriously traded jackson for you?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Somebody please go back and count the number of times we've lost a lead of 15 or more.

    easy formula to solve this problem

    x = games won

    b = games played.

    z = games where we had over a 15 point lead and lost it

    b-x=z

  9. #59

    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Anybody see Jack kiss Stacy and say "Thank you baby" after the game during his postgame interview?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    This little blurp from the star today might explain things about roster spots. Ike wasn't on the
    active rooster



    The Pacers have to keep Harrison on the active roster, meaning they'll only have 11 players available each game.


    .
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-14-2008 at 10:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Jermaine played his ****ing heart out, and I don't want anyone telling me otherwise.

    Oh MY GOODNESS. I Was so happy to see Jermaine playing like Jermaine. That's The Jermaine everyone wants to see, that's the Jermaine that's been lost for the last 3 years.

    People forget that's he's a 6 time all-star. He can play just as good as Garnett and Duncan. I really like the small ball, cause it really helps Jermaine's game. I think when the Pacers come back east, teams are going to be scared to play them.

    I mean, putting Rush in the starting line up was a smart move. I think you might start seeing similar scores like in the pre-season lol!!! We're gonna be dropping 140 on teams now
    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Phildog View Post
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    Anybody see Jack kiss Stacy and say "Thank you baby" after the game during his postgame interview?
    That's my boy. Wish I had gotten the FSN Indiana broadcast to laugh at that.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    This little blurp from the star today might explain things about roster spots. Ike wasn't on the
    active rooster



    The Pacers have to keep Harrison on the active roster, meaning they'll only have 11 players available each game.


    .
    I get that he wasn't on the active roster, but he wasn't even out on the bench. Stephen Graham was our only guy in a suit.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Our then best player (after Arenas ditched us), Antawn Jamison, was traded specifically so Dunleavy could get into the starting lineup and assume his natural SF spot. Eric Musselman was then canned a year later, and a big reason for that was because he didn't get along with Dunleavy.
    Jamison wasn't traded "specifically so Dunleavy could get into the starting lineup and assume his natural SF spot", the primary motivation in the Warriors seeking to trade Jamison to the Mavericks was because they wanted to move the MAX contract that they had given him in the 2001 offseason.

    The end result in moving Jamison was to get more minutes for the Dunleavy....but the move was also done to get more minutes to the rest of the Warriors "youth movement" which was made up of Dunleavy, Pietrus and Murphy....all of which played minutes at the Forward rotation that Jamison started and played minutes at. In addition, the Warriors also needed to add a Starting quality PG ( Nick Van Exel ) so that they can add depth to the PG rotation after losing Arenas to the Wizards.

    To say that Jamison was traded to make minutes for Dunleavy is IMHO partially ( and techincally ) correct, but not entirley accurate.

    The main reason for moving Jamison was because the Warriors wanted to rectify the $86 million "mistake" that they made when they gave Jamison a Max contract.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by bnd45 View Post
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    Diener: I want to know what little Travis Diener could have possibly siad that could warrant a T. As for his play, a pretty predictable dud tonight following his breakout game. Warriors' guards are way too talented for him to have an impact especially when his shot isn't falling (the airball was disgusting)
    The only thing that I could say was that he had made 2 FGA that were called off due to some mistake ( a 3-second violation and some other foul that I missed ) that another teammate made.

    I still think that he did a decent job....but he did make a few mistakes ( attempting to shoot over Harrington and losing the ball when he dribbled it too much ) that still makes me think that he is a good "situational" backup PG.

    Against teams that had solid Guard rotations like Monte, Baron and ( even ) Azubuike that can light it up and run circles around him and way stronger, he won't be very effective.

    He would be good to fill in some backup PG minutes if we are playing a really bad defensive team that did not have a very good PG/SG on the floor ( like the Kings had the other night ).
    Last edited by CableKC; 01-14-2008 at 02:05 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by granger33 View Post
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    O'Brien seems very happy with Mike

    (On Mike Dunleavy) “He was three assists away from a triple double that speaks for itself. He played a very good game and he’s been a wonderful, wonderful addition to our basketball team and I wouldn’t trade him for anybody.”

    Any coach would love to have Dunleavy on his team. You might say well any coach besides Nelson. My guess is that even Nelson injoyed coaching Dun. Nellie just thought he was better as a 7th or 8th man.

    Mike's been our most valuable player this season to this point.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs



    Jamaal doing his best TO impression: "Dude, how can they dis you like that? "

    Mike: No . It's not like I went to Cabo with Jessica Simpson.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs



    "29%. 43%. Now Jamaal, who do you think should be shooting the game-winner again?"

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Jamison wasn't traded "specifically so Dunleavy could get into the starting lineup and assume his natural SF spot", the primary motivation in the Warriors seeking to trade Jamison to the Mavericks was because they wanted to move the MAX contract that they had given him in the 2001 offseason.

    The end result in moving Jamison was to get more minutes for the Dunleavy....but the move was also done to get more minutes to the rest of the Warriors "youth movement" which was made up of Dunleavy, Pietrus and Murphy....all of which played minutes at the Forward rotation that Jamison started and played minutes at. In addition, the Warriors also needed to add a Starting quality PG ( Nick Van Exel ) so that they can add depth to the PG rotation after losing Arenas to the Wizards.

    To say that Jamison was traded to make minutes for Dunleavy is IMHO partially ( and techincally ) correct, but not entirley accurate.

    The main reason for moving Jamison was because the Warriors wanted to rectify the $86 million "mistake" that they made when they gave Jamison a Max contract.
    However you want to put it, the Warriors went out of their way to replace building around Jamison (a pretty good player) with building around Dunleavy. They gave him the starting spot when after not proving much his rookie year.

    Regardless, the point is that for the better part of 4.5 years, Dunleavy was given every chance to succeed. When one role didn't work, they tried him in a different role. He was tried in different roles at different positions both starting and off the bench. None of them worked out.

    4.5 years is plenty long enough to decide whether a player is working out for you or not. That should go for anyone.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Any coach would love to have Dunleavy on his team. You might say well any coach besides Nelson. My guess is that even Nelson injoyed coaching Dun. Nellie just thought he was better as a 7th or 8th man.

    Mike's been our most valuable player this season to this point.
    Dunleavy didn't jive well with Eric Musselman, who preferred playing Brian Cardinal over Dunleavy, but only because Cardinal was actually outplaying Dunleavy that particular year. Musselman, tho, has had clashes with several players so it's not a really good example.

    Nellie has said many times that he likes Dunleavy and liked coaching him, just that he didn't make enough shots for him. In fact that's what he said last night after the game. Chris Mullin was also very reluctant to trade him.

    You can't imagine how many articles were written when Nellie was re-hired last year talking about how he was the perfect coach to get something out of Dunleavy and Murphy.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    However you want to put it, the Warriors went out of their way to replace building around Jamison (a pretty good player) with building around Dunleavy. They gave him the starting spot when after not proving much his rookie year.

    Regardless, the point is that for the better part of 4.5 years, Dunleavy was given every chance to succeed. When one role didn't work, they tried him in a different role. He was tried in different roles at different positions both starting and off the bench. None of them worked out.

    4.5 years is plenty long enough to decide whether a player is working out for you or not. That should go for anyone.
    I completely agree that Dunleavy HAS NEVER played up to being a 3rd round pick player. I also agree that he isn't playing at a level that is expected of a $8-9 mil a player.

    But don't make it seem like Dunleavy is the only one to blame for how that situation turned out. The Warriors FO could have decided to cut ties with him at anytime if they thought that he wasn't able to live up to their expectations. Unforutnately, it just took them 4.5 seasons to figure out that he wasn't a good fit. What's made it worse was that they didn't have to overpay him.......just like they did for Jamison, just like what they did for Murphy, Fisher and Foyle.

    But that's fine......we can agree to disagree. As a Pacer fan that likes what Dunleavy brings to the court, my opinion of him is "colored" just like your opinion is "colored" by your opinion of him as a Warriors fan.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I also agree that he isn't playing at a level that is expected of a $8-9 mil a player.

    What? Have you seen what he's been doing this year? He's been paid very appropriately.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    I have to agree with Mal here that Dun is being paid appropriately. He has been our most consistent player this year. IS it his fault someone offered him that kind of doe?



    (sorry for all of the icons but they are my 4 year olds participation)

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    What? Have you seen what he's been doing this year? He's been paid very appropriately.
    I agree. I feel fine with his deal and Jeff's.

    How much do you think JOB is even extra PO'd that Hulk is costing them a roster spot for his stupid mistake?

    I sure didn't like hearing BND's report on Tinsley from live action. I can't help but feel that 100% identical to last season this magical chemistry is falling apart with each loss. Meet the new PG, same as the old PG perhaps.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    But don't make it seem like Dunleavy is the only one to blame for how that situation turned out. The Warriors FO could have decided to cut ties with him at anytime if they thought that he wasn't able to live up to their expectations. Unforutnately, it just took them 4.5 seasons to figure out that he wasn't a good fit. What's made it worse was that they didn't have to overpay him.......just like they did for Jamison, just like what they did for Murphy, Fisher and Foyle.

    But that's fine......we can agree to disagree. As a Pacer fan that likes what Dunleavy brings to the court, my opinion of him is "colored" just like your opinion is "colored" by your opinion of him as a Warriors fan.
    What do you mean? I already said I lay about 95% (and probably more) of the blame on the Warriors' inept management back in the day. That's where it starts and ends, just like I would blame the Pacers' PG problems on management's inability to get a better PG a lot more than Jamal Tinsley himself.

    I'm just saying that there is no possible way anyone can make the argument that (on an individual level) Dunleavy didn't get his fair chance to succeed with the Warriors. He got his chance. He got multiple ones at that.

    I (along with many other Warrior fans) would have ended the Dunleavy experiment about 2 years earlier than Mullin eventually did. I would have never committed $250M to Dunleavy, Murphy, Foyle, Fisher and JRich to begin with.

    With that being said, Dunleavy and Murphy got their chances to succeed over in GS. Got their chances to prove themselves It just didn't work out. I myself would have never given them that many chances, but they got them anyways. That's all I'm saying. At least now Dunleavy is proving himself to be a competent and productive player, as many people suspected he could have all along. Murphy likewise is proving that he's just not very good, which a lot of people suspected all allong as well.

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