Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!
James Jones has turned into a very solid role-player. I still feel we have a better version of JJ right now in Shawne Williams, but James would be a very nice to piece to have with our current offensive style.
You can all at least partially blame Rick Carlise for JJ no longer being a Pacer. JJ just wasn't going to thrive in a system like Rick's.
"I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."
About the same for me and I completely agree. I don't like the team playing poorly or even losing when they play well, but I'm still fascinated by the game itself. Even if they lose I want to know how and why, plus I still enjoy the small portions that are good even in a blow out.
Rat is right though, internet and sports talk have taken outrage to an entirely new level. I wish I could say I was above this, but while I try to be logical I'm still loaded with emotions on the issues too and moreso with these quick response avenues while I'm still upset.
JJ is not Shawne, he is an SG. He is what we want Rush to be, or at least Diener. He'll come in and run a curl, drop a few 3 bombs at a great rate and then block a few shots. His awareness at the time was no better than Shawne or Danny have right now, but we are willing to live with them.
Think about a 2/3/4 combo of JJ/DG/SW, that's 38-40% from 3 on a very regular basis, not just hot streaks. The only issue with that group is that you would still need some STRONG leadership and maturity at the PG/C spots to stabilize and guide them. And of course that would mean some pretty green defense for a year or so.
I guess now I need to dig out some JJ clips from his time here and show him running a strong curl for the 3pt catch and shoot, stuff like that. He's not Lebron, but then just what was he asking for in salary? Not exactly Lebron in that area either.
People are mad that Indy let go of a pure 3pt shooter that wanted shooting specialist money. No different than if they let Kapono go, and who wouldn't want him on the team right now.
What exactly was "Rick's" system? He changed it when JO was either injured or suspended, he was also the one who ran the offense under Bird. He ran a system that was best suited for the players he had.
With that said, I had a long drawn out post about losing interest the other day which basically tied into why casual fans aren't coming out to watch them. I would say if you take the time to even lurk on a board like this regularly you would be in the "die-hard" category. I don't want to label fans like rants have gone on and done in the past, questioning people's motives and stuff but you're taking initiative to care about the team. How can we expect casual fans, fair-weather fans, bandwagon fans, whatever you want to call them like and support this franchise if even we as a whole are losing interest?
The organization is going to continue to struggle unless they realize they've got a serious problem on their hands. Shuffling their bottom players isn't, changing their coach, or changing their marketing scheme isn't going to cut it.
2. None of the things you list, by themselves, will suffice. But each of them fits in with an overall effort. Changing the coach was a good and necessary step. Changing the marketing scheme was...well, what else can the marketing gurus at PS&E do? Shuffling the bottom players, as you say, isn't going to cut it. I agree with you that the organization overestimated their off-season tweak.
We ought to stop acting like poor crowds and community disaffection is a new crisis every week or two. The big crowds of casual fans coming back is going to be the last thing to happen. That is probably 2-3 years away at best.
Last edited by Putnam; 01-11-2008 at 04:45 PM.
And I won't be here to see the day
It all dries up and blows away
I'd hang around just to see
But they never had much use for me
In Levelland. (James McMurtry)
I still don't see the need for him.
Williams has a LONG way to go before he's a valuable as JJones. I don't expect it to happen. Williams seems like he has potential, but he's going to have to prove to be a winner before he exceeds Jones' value.
Would Portland trade JJones for Daniels right now? Now way, not even close. Even if the salarys were dead even, they wouldn't do it.
yea i lost interest in late November
They're gonna have to bite the bullet and just be plain bad for a couple of years, and by that I mean get rid of all their irritations instead of just applying another ointment just to see the same results.
They've changed the supporting cast, didn't work.
They've changed the coaching staff, didn't work.
They've changed the ad campaigns, didn't work.
Call me silly, but they can atleast try the things they haven't tried before. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Well JO and Tinsley have fooled this organization about twenty times now, thinking they can either stay healthy, stay out of trouble, or even win games.
They've given them every opportunity to succeed, and it's just not panned out. Sometimes you just need to cut your line.
I'm talking more about the level of confidence that I have with the team. I have as much confidence in the current version of the team that I had with the version from last season.
I admit that my perception of the team was different earlier in the season when it seemed that the team appeared to be competitive and didn't seem like they would give up....but as of late...things just seem to be reverting back to the way that were last year.
I can see that the "score as many points as we can" probably got us some good wins against some good teams ( like the Magic game that you mentioned )...but what's worse now is that we are losing to teams that no team should be losing to ( like the Sonics, Grizzlies and TWolves ).
To me....it's nice that we are trying to be more up-tempo and try to "score as many points as we can"....but so far...the end-result has been the same. We're still a .500 team that is just a little bit more interesting to watch.
Don't get me wrong...I will still watch the very few games on TV that I get to see and will still rush home to turn on NBA Audio pass to listen to the game....but I'm back at "Square 1" with this team like it was last year, my expectations are simply low for them.
Last edited by CableKC; 01-11-2008 at 06:00 PM.
Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.
This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.
You Got The Tony!!!!!!
UB, have you actually watched JJ play this year?