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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

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  • #46
    Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Originally posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
    People I'd like to see traded for picks and relief
    1 - Troy Murphy, the albatross
    2 - Marquis Daniels, the half-wit
    3 - Ike Diogu, the midget
    I realize a lot of people want to wave a magic wand in front of Murphy and turn him into a 1st round pick, but it's not happening.

    It's not as if teams around the league are lining up to get a piece of Troy Murphy and are offering all these picks and short contracts in return.

    If you value picks and cap relief, well guess what? The same goes for about 27 or 28 other teams in the league. Everyone wants draft picks. Everyone wants cap relief. Get in line. Those are the commodities everyone wants. Name me a GM who doesn't want those things.

    It's not as if other teams around the league not named the Pacers are saying that they want to trade away their picks in return for guys with bloated contracts.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

      Originally posted by d_c View Post
      I realize a lot of people want to wave a magic wand in front of Murphy and turn him into a 1st round pick, but it's not happening.

      It's not as if teams around the league are lining up to get a piece of Troy Murphy and are offering all these picks and short contracts in return.

      If you value picks and cap relief, well guess what? The same goes for about 27 or 28 other teams in the league. Everyone wants draft picks. Everyone wants cap relief. Get in line. Those are the commodities everyone wants. Name me a GM who doesn't want those things.

      It's not as if other teams around the league not named the Pacers are saying that they want to trade away their picks in return for guys with bloated contracts.
      I would take on a convicted serial killer if I was told he wouldn't shoot so much. Add a late second round pick and that trade is a steal.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

        Originally posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
        I would take on a convicted serial killer if I was told he wouldn't shoot so much. Add a late second round pick and that trade is a steal.
        Wow......
        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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        • #49
          Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

          Originally posted by CableKC View Post
          Wow......
          Yeah, looking back, I guess that was a bit extreme. I should have said suspected serial killer.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

            I have to agree with a lot that Ike has talent, but we need him to be the future 5 spot and he just needs to be 4 or 5 inches taller to play the 5 spot. I agree he could be a nice trading piece, maybe add as a sweetener to get rid of a bad contract.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

              Can Diener be Beno Udrih?

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

                I think O'Brien says it very well here, on what Diener brings to the Pacers.

                "We like his tempo and spacing, and he gets guys moving and he distributes the basketball," O'Brien said about Diener

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

                  he is really a good passer - I mean really good,
                  I disagree on this, I just haven't seen it from him. He lacks one arm strength to make a lot of passes where 2 hand passes are too slow or awkward (crossing your body for example). He also doesn't have the handles to position the ball for trickier passes. You aren't going to see the behind the back type of moves, or even a killer cross-over to pull your defender out of your passing lane.

                  He is the epitome of simplistic fundamentals paired with hustle that finds it's way into a modest bench role and the hearts of millions of fans.
                  Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                  I think O'Brien says it very well here, on what Diener brings to the Pacers.

                  "We like his tempo and spacing, and he gets guys moving and he distributes the basketball," O'Brien said about Diener
                  I think what JOB likes is the pace Diener plays at. He tries to move with the ball at a high rate and is pretty good about staying aware of his off-the-ball movement.


                  I think Ike is about as flawed as Harrison. Yes he has some things that when you see them you think "stud post guy", but like Hulk he also has massive gaps in his game that are easily (and often) exploited by other teams.

                  He can't pass, doesn't have the height to see over traps/doubles, doesn't have height to deny a lot of post scoring, and isn't fast like some smaller post men.

                  He gets great position, he has a decent mid-game and he has a fair set of post scoring moves. It's not enough to be a 25 mpg guy IMO, not for most teams at least.


                  I love Danny and Shawne but it really feels like they will have to give them up in order to fix other problems.
                  Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-11-2008, 03:09 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

                    Originally posted by mellifluous View Post
                    -12
                    -12
                    -11

                    Those are Ike's +/- numbers for the first three games. I like Ike and think he's quite talented, but if he was carrying us at any point during those games, he obviously wasn't doing that great of a job of it.
                    I agree, and before people slam the stat keep in mind what it means and how that matches what you saw him doing.

                    While he was on the floor the Pacers were losing leads or falling behind. No matter what he was doing in that time, how was that resulting in "carrying the team" if they were losing with him out there?

                    I don't care if he went 12-12 with 15 rebounds in 2 freaking minutes, if you somehow lost that 2 minute stretch by 10 then he wasn't saving the day.


                    Just do me this one favor with the +/- stat, ask yourself how it is possible for the team to fall behind/lose a period of game by so much when that player is kicking butt? That's what the +/- shows, it shows that while SOME stats on a guy look good there might be other aspects that are hidden from normal stats but are affecting the game just as much.

                    Guy goes 1-2 but the other team goes 2-2 the other way and lead by 2. Why did that happen? It wasn't his 50% shooting. By that stat he's great.

                    Hey, maybe it's the other 4 guys, or some guy he's not guarding on the other team that's going off, or even a guy he is guarding that's just having one of those nights. Regardless none of that sums up to "carrying the team". At best you get something more like "it would have been even worse without him". That does happen, just like some guys get a +/- bump thanks to guys they are playing with.
                    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-11-2008, 03:20 PM.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

                      Here's a plan: Hire a shooting coach, or get JJ Redick, because he's apparently the best shooter in NBA history, and have him focus on Jamaal Tinsley, Troy Murphy and Marquis Daniels - you know, the guys who can't make jump shots.

                      And, while we're at it, a better trainer.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

                        Originally posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
                        Here's a plan: Hire a shooting coach, or get JJ Redick, because he's apparently the best shooter in NBA history, and have him focus on Jamaal Tinsley, Troy Murphy and Marquis Daniels - you know, the guys who can't make jump shots.
                        Or just pony up $29.95 for the video:

                        Read my Pacers blog:
                        8points9seconds.com

                        Follow my twitter:

                        @8pts9secs

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

                          Originally posted by Putnam View Post
                          What about fewer minutes for Murphy? It would seem to me going small (and quick) would mean more Ike (now that he's back) and Williams, and less Murphy and (as you say) Harrison.

                          That would be my solution once Ike is 100%. Ike will be a contributor on this team.

                          I also think the Pacers should look at having Dunleavy initiate the offense when Tinsley isn't on the floor. Everything seems to run smoothly when he's in control.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

                            Originally posted by imawhat View Post
                            That would be my solution once Ike is 100%. Ike will be a contributor on this team.

                            I also think the Pacers should look at having Dunleavy initiate the offense when Tinsley isn't on the floor. Everything seems to run smoothly when he's in control.
                            I am under the impression that Dunleavy maybe an okay option to do this...but it seems that he's way more effective playing off-the-ball and scoring.

                            As UB suggested in another thread....it seems that we need to have playmakers that get the open shots for the other players. Whose the best players that can do that?
                            Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

                              Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                              I am under the impression that Dunleavy maybe an okay option to do this...but it seems that he's way more effective playing off-the-ball and scoring.

                              As UB suggested in another thread....it seems that we need to have playmakers that get the open shots for the other players. Whose the best players that can do that?
                              I don't think we have players that can get open shots for others except maybe Jamaal.

                              As you said Mike is better playing off the ball. I think that Marquis can create for himself but not others.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

                                UB's suggestions may be good ones, but they're all short-term. The problem with short term solutions is that they tend to neglect the long term aspects.

                                The long term aspects of this team are not that bad actually. The bloated contracts that will expire 2-3 years from now actually force mid-high draft choices for the next 2-3 years. Trading JO for picks, and maybe a decent piece can be a positive as well.

                                IMO there's only 1 real NBA starter on the Pacers and that's Danny Granger. He's the only guy I'd give a contract extension. All the others have ample replacement.

                                Long term, this team needs an all-star caliber guard (point, combo, shooting, whatever). Then it will need a dominant big man. Sorry JO, that's maybe what you were, but surely not any more.

                                An all-star guard, with a dominant big, surrounded by good shooters and some physical bangers, with veteran leadership off the bench. That's the recipe, and the only semi-piece in place is Danny Granger as the complement shooter role.

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