Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 75

Thread: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,767

    Default Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Someone in another thread asked where do we go from here. I realize most of you are ready to jump off a cliff or out of a window. But I see light at the end of the tunnel. So instead of bashing everyone connected to the Pacers, I will present a plan for where we go from here.

    OK, some of you might think Im crazy, but I think last nights game might very well be the game that turned the season around. (keep in mind that by turn the season around, I don't mean that the Pacers are going to go 30-15 the rest of the way, but rather they have found their voice {thanks Hillary})

    Why am I still positive about this team. Mainly because I see somethings that can be done with the players they have on the roster that will really help this team win games. And I suspect the coaching staff has learned these things also.

    And here they are.

    1) Diener needs to be the back up point guard. He needs to play 10-15 minutes per night. (Sure there might be the occassional game against bigger point guards where he won't be able to play too much) but he runs our offense very well - he can shoot, he is really a good passer - I mean really good, he has a feel for how to run an offense. Sure his defense isn't good, but what else is new on this team. We need Diener to be the backup point guard. Play Diener - I just hope his ankle is OK. He runs the offense so much better than Daniels or Owens and in fact he provides an offensive spark

    2) Say goodbye to Ike and David for quite some time. We are going small folks. Shawne is back in the rotation and he will get the minutes that Ike or David would have gotten. Expect to see Granger and Shawne play a lot of power forward. Trying to play a "big" running lineup hasn't worked.

    3) What do we do with JO. (I don't want that question to dominate this thread) But we need his defense for sure. Other than that I don't see that we need much else from him. He doesn't fit into this offense, right now I'm at a loss to know what to do with him. I almost want to say, "tell him to play like Jeff Foster on the offensive end" "Don't try to do too much"

    4) The Daniels experiment at point guard is over, thankfully. Yes his defense is OK there, but offensively, he struggles and the team comes to a standstill whenever he plays the point. He needs to be operating closer to the basket - it was unfair to him to ask him to play the point.

    5) Rush is our best perimeter defender. Who knew, but he is the best at keeping his man in front of him and still applying decent ball pressure.

    6) Play Foster more. Really all of you knew this was coming, in fact maybe I should just say that in everyone of my posts. But his defense on Amare last night should earn him a few votes for all defensive team - it was that good. (I think Clark said outstanding defense and Jeff Foster about 10 times last night.

    You probably think I am crazy, but I really see this as a turning point in our season. At least as far as this team becoming about as good as they can be. They still have a talent deficit against a lot of teams (If Nash had been healthy the Suns win by 8 points last night in regulation), they will still have bad shooting nights and yes their game is too dependant upon how well they are shooting. But I see a team that can and should come together
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-10-2008 at 09:34 AM.

  2. #2
    Mr. Clutch granger33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts
    693

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Nice read.

    Thats the positive side.

    But Negative side is the inconsistency from this team.

    Call me a fool but does anyone else think J.J Redick would be an awesome fit coming of the Indiana bench under O'Brien?

    I do to see light down the tunnel. But best case senario we will be 7th seed or 8th.

    AUSTRALIA'S NO.1 PACER FAN

  3. #3
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Age
    33
    Posts
    12,158

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by granger33 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Call me a fool but does anyone else think J.J Redick would be an awesome fit coming of the Indiana bench under O'Brien?
    You're a fool.
    Read my Pacers blog:
    8points9seconds.com

    Follow my twitter:

    @8pts9secs


  4. #4
    Get well PG! QuickRelease's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    4,768

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You're a fool.
    Why do you say that? He wouldn't be more than a role player, but you can never have enough pure shooters. At the least, he'd be someone on the floor that a defender couldn't help off of, so I'd love to have him, especially since we seem to love jacking up scores of 3's.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,089

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    1. Stop living in denial and wondering how to "fix" this team and just accept reality - that this team doesn't have the talent level to ever be anything more than a 35 win team.

    2. Get rid of the crap and build towards the future with Danny, Shawne, high draft picks, and maybe some cap space.

    Pretty simple really.

  6. #6
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    8,751

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kofi View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    1. Stop living in denial and wondering how to "fix" this team and just accept reality - that this team doesn't have the talent level to ever be anything more than a 35 win team.

    2. Get rid of the crap and build towards the future with Danny, Shawne, high draft picks, and maybe some cap space.

    Pretty simple really.
    Is it?

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,089

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Is it?
    Considering that the biggest factor (the lottery picks) are given to the team, I'd say it is. Just draft well. No headcases, unathletic slugs, or players with poor work ethics.
    Last edited by Kofi; 01-10-2008 at 12:10 PM.

  8. #8
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,274

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kofi View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    1. Stop living in denial and wondering how to "fix" this team and just accept reality - that this team doesn't have the talent level to ever be anything more than a 35 win team.

    2. Get rid of the crap and build towards the future with Danny, Shawne, high draft picks, and maybe some cap space.

    Pretty simple really.
    Yup.

    We need to rebuild, folks. Keep Shawne and probably Danny and dump pretty much everyone else over the next couple years for draft picks, expiring contracts, and players with potential that are languishing on the bench elsewhere.

    In other words, follow the Portland model of rebuilding. If they could unload that entire roster of miscreants with big contracts, then so can we.

  9. #9
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,767

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yup.

    We need to rebuild, folks. Keep Shawne and probably Danny and dump pretty much everyone else over the next couple years for draft picks, expiring contracts, and players with potential that are languishing on the bench elsewhere.

    In other words, follow the Portland model of rebuilding. If they could unload that entire roster of miscreants with big contracts, then so can we.
    Shade I know you didn't suggest I was living in denial. Others did, but I don't think I am living in denial. I have no problem rebuilding, but it isn't going to happen right away or during this season. I suggested that JO doesn't fit into this offense - that is obvious to everyone. I wanted the pacers trade trade JO this past summer or really the summer prior to that. Tinsley fits this offense rather well - or at least his talents do. Dunleavy fits, I think granger does, Williams does. Murphy doesn't really fit anywhere, but he'll be too hard to trade, so he'll be here quite awhile. Foster fits. Ike doesn't. Daniels is fine.

    If they want to rebuild that is fine by me, but I also think if the pacers trade JO and a few other players like Ike and if a really smart trade or two are made, I don't think we have to rebuild.

  10. #10
    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    38
    Posts
    1,428

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    That's what I'm talking 'bout UB. What's up with me coming around a gushing all over Buck today? Jermaine may not be able to demand the same kind of player he could a couple of season's ago but he should be able to net a couple of players that do really fit into this system ( maybe even the coveted young ones) and Ike's youth and contract make him attractive to teams that fit his style better. Where we don't agree is with Daniels. I think Daniels is an good player but a better trading piece.

  11. #11
    Member OakMoses's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Montana
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,031

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Where we don't agree is with Daniels. I think Daniels is an good player but a better trading piece.
    I'm with you on this one. I'd probably put Daniels on the list right behind Ike and JO as far as trade assets. If UB's right and Daniels is not our backup PG, then it really comes down to either he or Rush for the backup 2. Rush fits the system better and seems to be showing up a little bit more every game. If Daniels were to be moved, I'd not be too upset.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

    - Salman Rushdie

  12. #12
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    8,751

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Foster's defense yesterday was as good as I have ever seen him play. And Amare got away with A LOT. He probably won't make an all-defensive team, but he should definitely get serious consideration. Just fantastic last night. I cannot stop raving about this guy.

    Also, if JO miraculously did us a huge favor, opted out of his contracted and re-signed for about 9-10mil (i.e. his true value) then I would be a lot more optimistic about this team's future.

  13. #13
    Member owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,236

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Also, if JO miraculously did us a huge favor, opted out of his contracted and re-signed for about 9-10mil (i.e. his true value) then I would be a lot more optimistic about this team's future.

    JO opting out would be close to miraculous. Sometimes I think JO and Tins are really what
    is keeping this team from ultimately succeeding. No doubt this team needs a little different
    mix but it has some good pieces.
    {o,o}
    |)__)
    -"-"-

  14. #14

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleBuck
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Say goodbye to Ike and David for quite some time. We are going small folks. Shawne is back in the rotation and he will get the minutes that Ike or David would have gotten. Expect to see Granger and Shawne play a lot of power forward. Trying to play a "big" running lineup hasn't worked.

    What about fewer minutes for Murphy? It would seem to me going small (and quick) would mean more Ike (now that he's back) and Williams, and less Murphy and (as you say) Harrison.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  15. #15

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    I certainly see the light at the end of the tunnel.....every time we
    lose. The more, the better. Bring on that mid-high Lottery pick !

    Lineup-wise, in my book, this is our best five in O'B's system.
    C-Foster, PF-Williams, SF-DG, SG-Duns, PG-Tins. And win or lose,
    as long as O'B isn't cheering on JT's occasional idiocy (ala last night),
    they're fun to watch.

    30 wins or less or bust !!!

  16. #16
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,253

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Harrison actually runs the floor pretty well for a 7 footer.

    I really like the idea of going small... hopefully we see danny and shawne at the 3 and 4 from now on.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  17. #17

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What about fewer minutes for Murphy? It would seem to me going small (and quick) would mean more Ike (now that he's back) and Williams, and less Murphy and (as you say) Harrison.

    That would be my solution once Ike is 100%. Ike will be a contributor on this team.

    I also think the Pacers should look at having Dunleavy initiate the offense when Tinsley isn't on the floor. Everything seems to run smoothly when he's in control.

  18. #18
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,623

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That would be my solution once Ike is 100%. Ike will be a contributor on this team.

    I also think the Pacers should look at having Dunleavy initiate the offense when Tinsley isn't on the floor. Everything seems to run smoothly when he's in control.
    I am under the impression that Dunleavy maybe an okay option to do this...but it seems that he's way more effective playing off-the-ball and scoring.

    As UB suggested in another thread....it seems that we need to have playmakers that get the open shots for the other players. Whose the best players that can do that?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I am under the impression that Dunleavy maybe an okay option to do this...but it seems that he's way more effective playing off-the-ball and scoring.

    As UB suggested in another thread....it seems that we need to have playmakers that get the open shots for the other players. Whose the best players that can do that?
    I don't think we have players that can get open shots for others except maybe Jamaal.

    As you said Mike is better playing off the ball. I think that Marquis can create for himself but not others.

  20. #20
    J.O. To The T.O. Oneal07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,459

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    I believe Diener should play more also. I heard last night he didn't play much cause he was a "liability" on defence. I mean, TJ Ford weighs 155 and is 6"1 and is a starting PG. If we're going to be good on offense. especially with our 2nd unit, Diener should play.

    The thing about Tinsley is that, when he plays he doesn't push the ball up the court fast enough. Last night was the first time I seen him do that in a long time.

    During all the losses, we allow the defence to set up, which should be how our offense run. We need to put more pressure on their defence
    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

  21. #21
    '12 PD Sunshiner awardee Kemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    A-Town , Indiana
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,983

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneal07 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I heard last night he didn't play much cause he was a "liability" on defence.

    Whoever thinks that Diener is a liability on defense.. and Tinsley is not .. is smoking CRACK...!!!

    While TD may not be a good defensive player... Tinsley is horrid at defense.. just horrid.... the only thing JT does well .. (when he actually does it ) is steal the ball....

    otherwise JT's defense is a liability... moreso than ANYONE on the team...

    seriously take any random games and look at the stats of Tinsley and whoever he was matched up against....

    he allows his opponent to pretty much get anything off they want... ..

    If JOB actually said that or thinks that about TD being a liability on defense.. and thats his reasoning.. maybe JOB needs to lay off the pipe .. as well..

  22. #22
    Member OakMoses's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Montana
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,031

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    UB,

    Thanks for the post. I'm inclined to agree with you about the future of this team. While I don't believe that last night was any kind of a victory, and I'm still irate with O'Brien and Tinsley for what happened at the end of the game, I'd like to believe that we're starting to figure a few things out.

    I don't believe that J.O'B is a bad coach, and I don't believe that this team lacks talent. Sure were not as talented as the top-tier teams in the league, but there are probably 10-15 with whom I would not trade rosters. I'm as guilty as anybody about knee-jerk negative posts after terrible losses. Hopefully you're right about O'Brien learning from this loss and we'll see some of the same positives in the future. I certainly won't be one who ever roots for the Pacers to lose. Rebuilding is a long and painful process for most teams, and I'm not sure that the Pacers would survive it (in Indy that is). I think we'll stay the course with this roster, but we'll probably see some moderate to significant changes at the deadline or in the offseason.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

    - Salman Rushdie

  23. #23
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Garrett, IN
    Posts
    9,110
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    If Portland can recover with the players and contracts that they had we can to.

    I like Diener and Daniels together with Rush, Williams, and Foster. Not saying that is a starting lineup. But it causes alot of mismatches.

    So it appears that DH is not going to be resigned and Rush may.

    It is time to trade JO. Picks, defensive big, and cap should be the max that we get in return.

  24. #24
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,767

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by intridcold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    I like Diener and Daniels together with Rush, Williams, and Foster. Not saying that is a starting lineup. But it causes alot of mismatches.

    I really like that lineup also.

    I think the player most likely to be traded is Ike Diogu. He has a good contract, he has some talent, but he doesn't fit in to this system at all neither the offensive system nor the defensive system. Ike needs to be traded, and I have been one of his biggest supporters
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-10-2008 at 01:11 PM.

  25. #25
    Member OakMoses's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Montana
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,031

    Default Re: Where do we go from here - yes a real plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I really like that lineup also.

    I think the player most likely to be trade is Ike Diogu. he has a good contract, he has some talent, but he doesn't fit in to this system at all neither the offensive system nor the defensive system. Ike needs to be traded, and I have been one of his biggest supporters
    I agree. I like Ike and think he will be a decent starting PF someday. If I were making a list of Pacers most likely to be traded, he'd be #1 with JO as #2, after that, I don't see us really looking to move anyone.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

    - Salman Rushdie

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •