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Thread: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreKen View Post
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    How will the youngsters learn to be clutch when they don't get the opportunity?
    Tins got plenty of opportunities, and he's on his way to being clutch.

    . . . Oh, yeah . . .

    He's nearly 30.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Here's the good news about all this - we are all but guaranteeing a playoff berth for the Atlanta Hawks!
    We have been helping them out for the last couple of years....why stop now?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    I don't see nearly enough of these fingers being pointed at the coach, for allowing Tinsley to single handedly hose us in the overtime. As Bball mentioned, there wasn't as much as a "talking to" with Tinsley let alone a benching to get some other guys involved.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Considering we probably would not have been in any position to win without tinsley, you take the good with the bad.

    It was still rediculous and I hope we don't see it again. If there was ever an indication to obrien that we need to rein him in a bit that was it.

    In other news, I think I have finally bought into the argument that we play better without JO. I have given him a lot of chances and this game pretty much proved it to me... I also heard Jim in the press conference say that he is considering going small more to get shawne more minutes, and I think that is a good idea.

    come on guys, we lost to a top 3 team in the league in overtime. I found some positives in this game, Im pretty much on the "evaluate the youngster" level at this point anyway. More losses means better draft pick...
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

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    Member LoneGranger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Everyone is criticizing O'Brien now, but I was doing it before it was cool. I believe I led the charge against Murphy too.



    Let the hate flow through you...

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Quote Originally Posted by JBones19 View Post
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    I honestly think the reason Tins took every shot in OT was because our players were completely exhausted. They gave Tins the ball and iso'd him against Marion pretty much every play in OT and NOBODY was cutting or moving. It almost looked like he was supposed to be taking every shot- it was ugly. I feel bad for Jeff, Danny, Troy, and Shawne, they played their butts off. But if there is a silver lining, we played phenomenally the first 3 1/2 quarters, maybe we'll learn how to finish one day...

    On Deiner- he suffered a nasty sprained ankle and probably will be out a while (speculating here) but when he was in he pushed the tempo very well and hit some shots.
    I could see this as a viable reason as to why he did what he had to do....but why not pull out Dunleavy and put in Marquis? Heck....I would have even been happy with Ike at that point....at least I know that we would have taken some shots in the paint.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    well you figure this was not a game anyone expected to win...2nd night off a back to back after getting killed by utah. It just hurts because we could have and probably should have won this game. We can build off this...lets shut JO down for the remainder of the trip and get some wins. Shut em down till the all star break so his sorness in his knee can go away and he can practice.
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    I don't see nearly enough of these fingers being pointed at the coach, for allowing Tinsley to single handedly hose us in the overtime. As Bball mentioned, there wasn't as much as a "talking to" with Tinsley let alone a benching to get some other guys involved.


    Tinsley is a grown man, a coach shouldn't have to tell him that going solo in the last 10 minutes is NOT the way to win a game. Especially beause it's not the first time he tries to be the hero ... and failing almost every time!

    JOB should have yanked him when we went to overtime but Tinsley alone is responsable for this outcome, and he deserves all the crap that is coming to him!
    Maceo Baston's #1 fan on Pacers Digest!

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    If Ike and Shawne aren't getting consistent minutes at the end of the season, we better be in the ****ing playoffs. Let's not toss a whole year of everyone's life away watching JO and Tins play catch while Murphy plays a game of slapass with whoever he's pretending to defend.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpolloloco View Post
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    Tinsley is a grown man, a coach shouldn't have to tell him that going solo in the last 10 minutes is NOT the way to win a game. Especially beause it's not the first time he tries to be the hero ... and failing almost every time!

    JOB should have yanked him when we went to overtime but Tinsley alone is responsable for this outcome, and he deserves all the crap that is coming to him!
    Listen, we all vehemently disagree with what he did, but don't let your well-documented disgust with Tinsley prevent you from seeing that Jim O'Brien could have done something about it if he had any brains or any balls about him.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Diener finally looked solid for a game. It was really too bad to see him go down the ankle sprain.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    "I saw Travis being led out of the lockerroom in a wheelchair but the Pacers PR guy said that his return was questionable for tonight's game"

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpolloloco View Post
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    Tinsley is a grown man, a coach shouldn't have to tell him that going solo in the last 10 minutes is NOT the way to win a game. Especially beause it's not the first time he tries to be the hero ... and failing almost every time!

    JOB should have yanked him when we went to overtime but Tinsley alone is responsable for this outcome, and he deserves all the crap that is coming to him!
    Well, how is it BS when you just re-itterated my point to begin with. Obie should either yanked him not neccessarily when we went to OT, but anytime during...he could have mixed in something about discression and getting your team mates involved.

    Sorry, your typical flaming of Tins and JO just doesn't hold any water in my eyes when the freakin coach didnt even make an effort to rectify the situation.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyPacersLeft View Post
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    well you figure this was not a game anyone expected to win...2nd night off a back to back after getting killed by utah. It just hurts because we could have and probably should have won this game. We can build off this...lets shut JO down for the remainder of the trip and get some wins. Shut em down till the all star break so his sorness in his knee can go away and he can practice.
    I do think that it's reasonable to believe that Granger, Dunleavy and Foster were out of gas and therefore not good scoring options. They were taking the majority of the shots and rebounding while running up and down for 4 quarters. So I can see that why we didn't want to use them as scoring options.

    But as many have stated......JO'B should have recognized this and subbed in Marquis...who only played 14 minutes before Shawne fouled out.

    I can partially blame Tinsley for this loss....but I put the majority of the blame on JO'B for not making the necessary coaching adjustments to stem the tide.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpolloloco View Post
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    Tinsley is a grown man, a coach shouldn't have to tell him that going solo in the last 10 minutes is NOT the way to win a game. Especially beause it's not the first time he tries to be the hero ... and failing almost every time!

    JOB should have yanked him when we went to overtime but Tinsley alone is responsable for this outcome, and he deserves all the crap that is coming to him!
    Then why even have a coach? If the players are grown men and should know what to do anyways...

    You have to put part of it on the coach too. It is illogical not to.

  16. #41

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    If Ike and Shawne aren't getting consistent minutes at the end of the season, we better be in the ****ing playoffs. Let's not toss a whole year of everyone's life away watching JO and Tins play catch while Murphy plays a game of slapass with whoever he's pretending to defend.
    We have a winner!!!

    I've been on this train for a while.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Quote Originally Posted by JBones19 View Post
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    I honestly think the reason Tins took every shot in OT was because our players were completely exhausted.
    This is a horribly inaccurate statement. If anyone looked exhausted or out of gas at the end of the game, it was Tinsley. Think about it. Who's playing their second game back after a week off? Near the end of regulation, he airballed an 8 foot jumper, left it short. At that point you could tell that he didn't even have the 6 inches of lift that he normally gets on his jumpshot. Did he stop shooting at this point? No, of course not. By the way, Dunleavy was moving and working to get open on more than one of these possessions.

    Tinsley's play at the end of the game was inexcusable. In 9 minutes he destroyed every bit of good will he built up over the season. For those of you who say you have to take the good with the bad with Tinsley, I say that's fine, we just need to pull him for the last 5 minutes of every game. If Andre Owens had played the last 5 minutes of regulation, we'd probably have won this game.

    What truly scares me about all this is that most of the plays at the end of the game looked like called iso's for Tinsley. O'Brien has said that he likes to slow it up and run plays at the end of games. If having a bad shooter go one on one against one of the NBA's best defenders is your idea of running a play, then you have some bad ideas. I've been a supporter of O'Brien all along, but right now I'm just as disgusted with him as I am with Tinsley.

    I should mention that I waited to cool off before posting this. I have never been so disgusted by the ending of a basketball game in my life.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    I don't think you can blame tinsley for this loss. He was being Iso'd at the end but no one was moving. It reminded me of the lets dump it to our go to guy (JO) and let him go to work. Tins just couldn't get it done tonight...this wasn't supposed to be a win anyways. We can still win the remainder of this trip...if JO sits.
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Short coach's comments are up at pacers.com:

    Jim O'Brien:

    “The effort was exceptional. It’s very disappointing to lose, I thought we competed. The injuries to Kareem (Rush) and Travis (Diener) hurt our depth. We were basing our whole tempo on depth and that kind of set us back. We had to play some guys a little longer than we wanted to. I thought Jeff (Foster) and Troy Murphy did a great job of holding down the middle by themselves. Disappointing, but a good hard effort from our ball club.”

    I was looking for something more like, "We made a lot of bad decisions in the last 5 minutes of regulation."

    You have to play hard AND smart.
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Tins=JOB's new Iverson? It certainly looks that way recently. Which is depressing considering the way the team (Tinsley) started this season. Just really an all around weird game.

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    Angry Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Quote Originally Posted by JBones19 View Post
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    I honestly think the reason Tins took every shot in OT was because our players were completely exhausted. They gave Tins the ball and iso'd him against Marion pretty much every play in OT and NOBODY was cutting or moving. It almost looked like he was supposed to be taking every shot- it was ugly. I feel bad for Jeff, Danny, Troy, and Shawne, they played their butts off. But if there is a silver lining, we played phenomenally the first 3 1/2 quarters, maybe we'll learn how to finish one day...

    On Deiner- he suffered a nasty sprained ankle and probably will be out a while (speculating here) but when he was in he pushed the tempo very well and hit some shots.
    That first line is bogus! We had fresh legs out there in Quis, Dunleavy and there was still Owens in reserve. Granted, he hadn't played the entire game, but I'd have gone to him in regularion if it meant getting a fresh body out there who could knock down a three, if necessary, or drive to the basket.

    This was poor decision making all around by the coach and his starting PG!!! There's no way in h**l I'd allow my team to take jump shots with the game under 3 minutes and you're within 10 pts of your opponent whether ahead or trying to claw your way from behind because long jump shots ALWAYS led to long rebounds. The odds are totally against you, and I don't care if you're the best 3-point shooting team in the league. Odds are you'll miss a few and your opponent will get the rebound and score the ball in transition. It's just NOT smart basketball.

    JOB blew this!

    Tinsley blew this!

    This game above ALL others IMO is very hard to swallow because it was theirs!! The Pacers had the Suns on the ropes! Their ONLY offense for the most part down the stretch was Barbosa. He started clanking them near the end while the Pacers got the rebounds and just threw up clanker after clanker from downtown themselves, and in doing so let the Suns steal yet another game from them.

    Absolutely ridiculous! Pathetic!! Utterly uncalled for!!!
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 01-10-2008 at 01:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    Jim O'Brien:

    “The effort was exceptional. It’s very disappointing to lose, I thought we competed. The injuries to Kareem (Rush) and Travis (Diener) hurt our depth. We were basing our whole tempo on depth and that kind of set us back. We had to play some guys a little longer than we wanted to. I thought Jeff (Foster) and Troy Murphy did a great job of holding down the middle by themselves. Disappointing, but a good hard effort from our ball club.”
    God I'm so sick and tired of hearing about depth. There isn't a more usless thing in all of sports. If you're starters aren't up to snuff YOU WILL LOSE MORE THAN YOU WIN PERIOD.
    The Pacers like to try and sell us on this depth but its becoming complete and utter BS. This team doesn't have depth. This was Diener's first good game ALL SEASON. Ike has been basically useless since he has returned. And anything Murphy does positive is typically cancelled out almost immediately by some sort of missed defensive assigment or poor jump shot. The only players that give us "depth" consistently right now are Quis, Rush, and Foster. And quite honestly that ain't saying much. Countless teams in the NBA have better benches than us.
    So until we get a LEGIT sixth man candidate or some better starters any talk of "depth" on this team is merely lip service. Year after year (basically the past three or four years) we hear about our superior "depth" how strong our benches is and all of this noise. I'm tired of it. Give me a brilliant group of 5 starters over depth any day. Especially when its as mediocre as our depth is.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 01-10-2008 at 01:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    JOB had a big hand in the way this game ended. No doubt. He should never had let a foolish player have free reign to do as he pleases in the critical moments of a game. If he really encourages a 33% shooter to shoot 20+ shots a game and to take over at crunch time he's a fool as well. Hopefully TPTB are just trying to inflate JT's trade value or trying to tank the season(maybe both) or else I have little faith in JOB's decision making.

    And for those that are saying JT's shots are due to playing with more effort or us needing another player because JT doesn't trust his teamates go check the box score. There were several players shooting the ball well tonight. There was no need for him to do this again. Not tonight.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    I can only assume one of the following:

    1) Jim O'Brien is a bad in-game coach

    2) While he doesn't think it was the best idea for Tinsley to do what he did, he made the promise to let them have the offense while he has the defense, and to stick to that he'll simply point out in film session and in practice the error of Tinsley's ways (in a constructive way) to teach him to make better decisions on his own.

    I can believe 1, but I'm going with 2.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns Post Game 37: So close, yet so far

    It kind of looked like we were gassed late in the overtime period. I gave them a ton of credit for playing that well on the second day of a back to back, running with Phoenix, and taking them into OT on their floor.

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