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Thread: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    [quote=Shade;640666]
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    This has also been the Knicks' philosophy, and look where it has gotten them.

    The problem with "staying the course" with an average team is that you're never good enough to win anything significant, and never bad enough to get a much-needed talent-infusion.
    I agree. For four years, the Warriors won 38, 37, 34 and 34 wins. Nowhere good enough for the playoffs and nowhere near bad enough to get an impact player in the lottery.

    Believe me, it was pretty damn tough to get out of that cycle.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    [QUOTE=d_c;640668]
    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I agree. For four years, the Warriors won 38, 37, 34 and 34 wins. Nowhere good enough for the playoffs and nowhere near bad enough to get an impact player in the lottery.

    Believe me, it was pretty damn tough to get out of that cycle.
    The only cycle that is tougher to get out of is the cycle of losing and not making the playoffs at all.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The only cycle that is tougher to get out of is the cycle of losing and not making the playoffs at all.
    The time period I mentioned with the Warriors included losing and not making the playoffs at all. The problem with their losing was that it didn't lead to getting better talent.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    [quote=Unclebuck;640670]
    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    The only cycle that is tougher to get out of is the cycle of losing and not making the playoffs at all.
    We could very well be headed down that road. Last year might just have been Year One...

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I don't buy into a big name signing, but I do think it would be nice if you could sign a KAPONO when you needed a 3pt ace rather than settling for Mark Price aka ball boy and Rush.
    Ummmmm...did you just put Travis Diener in the same class as Mark Price? He's closer to more like Brent Price. Mark Price was a consistent all-star player, and if Diener comes up to that, we'd be better for it.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybegood View Post
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    Ummmmm...did you just put Travis Diener in the same class as Mark Price? He's closer to more like Brent Price. Mark Price was a consistent all-star player, and if Diener comes up to that, we'd be better for it.
    Seth did not. Larry Bird did.

    (well not really, but he compared them.)
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybegood View Post
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    Ummmmm...did you just put Travis Diener in the same class as Mark Price? He's closer to more like Brent Price. Mark Price was a consistent all-star player, and if Diener comes up to that, we'd be better for it.
    Isn't this remark a reference to Larry Bird's comment that Diener reminded him of Mark Price? My memory may be bad, so feel free to correct if I'm mistaken.

    edit: oops! Too slow!
    Bill

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Seth did not. Larry Bird did.

    (well not really, but he compared them.)
    Oh yeah...I remember that.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    It's amazing to see the amount of people on this board coming over to the rebuild side of things. I wish we had a little black and white color spectrum in everybodys avatar block to the left and you could shade the different degrees of the dark and light.... Mine would for sure be "as black as the deepest depths of darkest africa" ( I forget what movie that quote is from, but it's a good depiction of the shade i am feeling).

    Anyway, something has to be done...My question to all, if you are the GM do you wait until missing the playoffs/post-season to rebuild or do you take your chances mid season before the deadline and try and gamble on a teams chances at lotteryism and get your picks now?

    PS, I hope everyone took advantage of the IU game being on ESPN last night, if not you missed your chance to see two draft entrees play last night...hang your heads in shame

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Solid teams have veteran players with playoff experience. Those are the players that get you to the playoffs and know what to do once you get there. As I recall the Pacers have shipped off some players with alot of experience for some with none. They have 5 guys with real playoff experience....JT, JO, Rush, Daniels & Foster. Meanwhile, Reggie, Dale, Jackson, Artest, Armstrong, Crosh, Harrington, Pollard, Freddie, AJ, Peja and even Bender have all left the stable.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by jmoney2584 View Post
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    PS, I hope everyone took advantage of the IU game being on ESPN last night, if not you missed your chance to see two draft entrees play last night...hang your heads in shame
    And saw one hell of a shooting exhibition put on by EJ. He's got some serious range, a couple beyond the NBA 3pt line.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    I didn't see the game last night.

    Looking at the stats, however, it would seem that if the Pacers had had an average shooting night, it would have been a fairly close game.

    We shot 5-24 from 3 pt. range. If we'd shot our average 36% from 3, we'd have made 9 three's (8.6 to be exact, I'm rounding up).

    We also shot 16-26 from the line. If we'd have shot our normal 74%, we'd have made 19 free throws.

    If you add that up, it's 15 points.

    111-104 doesn't look like such a terrible score on the road against a good Western Conference team.

    We're a live and die by the jump shot team. I think we're just going to have to suck it up and live with the inconsistency until we see a change in the roster.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And saw one hell of a shooting exhibition put on by EJ. He's got some serious range, a couple beyond the NBA 3pt line.
    I really liked the announcers quote saying he has "reggie miller range" haha.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    It's scary to think that he's THAT good of a shooter at the ripe age of 19. I'm honestly starting to think that he's on par with some of the best shooters in the world, and I'm not being sarcastic one bit.

    He shoots over 46% from the 3pt line, which without looking at the stats from last night shot rise a bit. He does all this while never seeing the light of day. He either makes a good move off the dribble to get space, or uses a very quick catch and release.

    The highlight of him on ESPN shooting where they draw the line shows he's a good 7 or so feet behind the line, that's like 26-27ft, it's crazy to see him shoot it and not think twice. Not only shoot it, but just nut it like it was a FT.

    You can keep your OJ Mayo, and say he's just as good of a scorer, there's no comparison where I'm sitting. He's making teams look stupid every single night while everything is focused on him.

    The more I see, the more impressed I become.

    EDIT: Sorry, he's shooting 44.6% from 3. He's only been held to two games under 20pts. The first he played 12mins, because of an injury and ended up with 8pts, the other he had 15pts.

    Highlites from last nights game can be found here.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=280080130
    Last edited by Since86; 01-09-2008 at 04:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And saw one hell of a shooting exhibition put on by EJ. He's got some serious range, a couple beyond the NBA 3pt line.
    Stupid question....I don't keep up with IU basketball....but I have no clue as to who EJ is.

    Do you mean EG ( as in Eric Grodon )?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    we have no go to scorer....we can't play defense...and we turn the ball over so much when our "Playmakers" try to make a play...it's sickening really. This game tonight lets all watch it with an open mind. Sure we are going to get killed...but hey it's all good! what is our record anyways? 16-20?
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by jmoney2584 View Post
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    Anyway, something has to be done...My question to all, if you are the GM do you wait until missing the playoffs/post-season to rebuild or do you take your chances mid season before the deadline and try and gamble on a teams chances at lotteryism and get your picks now?
    If an opportunity presents itself where we get players that fits our needs....then I move JONeal ( or more specifically.....the best trading asset that a team would remotely be interested in that we have IMHO that does not fit the system that JO'B put into place ) ASAP. Otherwise....I take the best offer ( whatever that is ) that I can get before the start of the draft.

    Either way.....JONeal is in another different uniform by the start of the 2008-2009 season.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    really i think danny can be a go to guy on our team. He's got that ability to get to the rim and hit jump shots as well as create his own shot. He hasn't been doing it lately but i expect it to come along and very soon.
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Stupid question....I don't keep up with IU basketball....but I have no clue as to who EJ is.

    Do you mean EG ( as in Eric Grodon )?
    Kind of, he's Eric Gordon Jr. so his nickname is EJ. (sounds better than EG I guess)

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    Exclamation Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybegood View Post
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    Ummmmm...did you just put Travis Diener in the same class as Mark Price? He's closer to more like Brent Price. Mark Price was a consistent all-star player, and if Diener comes up to that, we'd be better for it.

    Im sorry but I disagree,

    How do ANY of you Diener naysayers come up with your negativity on TD??

    All I hear out of alot of you is complaining and moaning how Travis is a bust , how he sucks and how we need to get rid of him...

    I just don't get it...

    Here you have a guy that "can" shoot the ball , is an excellent passer/playmaker .. brings a great spark of energy to the team when he's on the court.. and hardly ever turns the ball over....


    How can you base these negative assumptions off of a guy that barely sees 3 to 5 minutes off the bench behind guys that aren't near as good nor deserve the playtime any more than him at PG ... (a'la Owens and 'Quis)


    How does J.O.B ... or any of you for that matter expect Diener to be an impact and a good player .. when he only sees "pity minutes" at the end of the game , or only 3 to 5 minutes... when he actually does get to play?!?!?!?!


    You simply CANNOT keep a guy on the bench (clear at the end of it I might add) ... that much , and expect desired results .. How is a player supposed to develop his game, chemistry , and consistancy .. when he gets little to no PT ?? Then you guys want to complain how we dont have a good backup pg.. and blah blah ..
    The problem is.. JOB cannot play JT for 40 to 48 minutes a game and expect him to be the next Allen Iverson.. it isnt gonna happen.... all it is going to do is injure JT , and screw up VALUABLE playing time for our backup pg's ... then when the time comes where JT gets injured.. we are left with 2 pg's (Diener and Owens) who are expected to fill in the void .. and it simply is unrealistic to put that kind of burden on them with not getting any pt throughout the season , to develop chemistry..


    I guarantee you if he got at the very least 20 minutes per game playing time .. all of Indiana would see what he is made of... and quite possibly develop into our starter in the future...

    Diener should bar-none .. come off the bench for Tinsley as his backup for right now.. and play 20 to 25 minutes...
    and Owens be the 3rd string options for pg... or at least rotate minutes ... and reward good playing ..
    The way it is now .. Diener could go out play 8 minutes.. score 12 points 3/4 fg and 2/4 off 3 pointers ,get 5 assists , and commit zero turnovers , and Jim O'brian rewards him by not playing him rest of the game, so JAMAAALLLL can get his 40 minutes in.. score his 10 to 15 points , his 4 to 6 assists , and turn the ball over at least 5 to 6 times ...

    Then the next game .. JOB prally wont even play Diener (if he does , maybe 3 to 5 minutes if he lucky)..
    Or if Tinsley gets injured.... he starts a VERY mediocre Andre Owens.. and plays 'Quis as a PG...?!?!?!??!?!


    WTF is wrong with this picture...??!!?! Am I the only one with eyes to see this crap??

    It just utterly floors me , and it bothers me even more when there are some people on here that want to down different players , that are geting the shaft .. over clear favortism or locker-room politics..

    I really really want to like JOB .. and I have said nothing but good things about him to try and turn the Pacer's image around.. but it is getting harder and harder each day .. when I see what is going on..
    I just don't see the reasoning...
    Last edited by Kemo; 01-09-2008 at 05:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    ALSO to add ..

    the problem with the new offense isn't so much with the players as a whole not getting it...


    The problem lies with JO and JT... not "getting it"


    Every single time.. that we start struggling in a game.. its like they forgot the new system they are supposed to be playing.. and it turns right back into the
    "Jamaal / Jermaine Show"
    where all JT does is take bad shots, hogs the ball , turns it over frequently , and JO becomes the "go-to guy" shooting horrible fade-away or turn-around jumpers..
    and of course we lose... because it totally screws the offense up.. and the defense , as well as lowers the team morale ... and the whole game goes to crap from there...
    Last edited by Kemo; 01-09-2008 at 05:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    It's scary to think that he's THAT good of a shooter at the ripe age of 19. I'm honestly starting to think that he's on par with some of the best shooters in the world, and I'm not being sarcastic one bit.

    He shoots over 46% from the 3pt line, which without looking at the stats from last night shot rise a bit. He does all this while never seeing the light of day. He either makes a good move off the dribble to get space, or uses a very quick catch and release.

    The highlight of him on ESPN shooting where they draw the line shows he's a good 7 or so feet behind the line, that's like 26-27ft, it's crazy to see him shoot it and not think twice. Not only shoot it, but just nut it like it was a FT.

    You can keep your OJ Mayo, and say he's just as good of a scorer, there's no comparison where I'm sitting. He's making teams look stupid every single night while everything is focused on him.

    The more I see, the more impressed I become.

    EDIT: Sorry, he's shooting 44.6% from 3. He's only been held to two games under 20pts. The first he played 12mins, because of an injury and ended up with 8pts, the other he had 15pts.

    Highlites from last nights game can be found here.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=280080130
    I'm also very impressed with his body control and ability to draw fouls going to the basket. Seems like it is very difficult to draw a charge on Eric because he uses his body so well getting to the rim.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Smooth View Post
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    I'm also very impressed with his body control and ability to draw fouls going to the basket. Seems like it is very difficult to draw a charge on Eric because he uses his body so well getting to the rim.
    Like i said before, the bar i tend in B-town carries direct TV so i never miss a game on the big ten network (even though they are holding the state hostage). I can't honestly remember him being called for one charge this entire year...I'm sure it has to have happened but maybe only once or so, pretty sure he leads the nation in free throws made per game as well, EJ treats the line like its a buffet...he keeps coming back for more.
    Last edited by jmoney2584; 01-09-2008 at 07:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by jmoney2584 View Post
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    Like i said before, the bar i tend in B-town carries direct TV so i never miss a game on the big ten network (even though they are holding the state hostage). I can't honestly remember him being called for one charge this entire year...I'm sure it has to have happened but maybe only once or so, pretty sure he leads the nation in free throws made per game as well, EJ treats the line like its a buffet...he keeps coming back for more.
    Eric Gordon is ranked 7th in FTA this season but 3rd in FTM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts after being trounced by Utah

    yea he is at 7.7 mad eper game and hansborough is at 7.9 per game but IU has played only 13 games compared to UNCs 15 so we'll see how that goes when they are all squared up schedule wise. I think i heard the announcer say coming into last nights game he was first, but who knows. point being IU never has those players AND the Pacers NEED those kind of players. A.I. and D wade both are guys that people thought too small to play the sg position but they bake their cake by drawing fouls on opposing big man which greatly changes the dynamic of the game. gotta love it
    Last edited by jmoney2584; 01-09-2008 at 08:54 PM.

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