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Thread: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

  1. #26
    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Another thing when you see how the Pacers handled the Brad Miller situation it just kind of further indicates how much they wanted to win and be contenders.

    We gave away Brad Miller for basically nothing because, "Oh no, he's too much money." That's a load of ****, if you want to win, you make some sacrifices, you didn't have a problem inking up Jon-Jon long term.

    And don't give me any of this bull**** telling me, "Brad was injury prone and isn't that good. That is why we didn't sign him for that ridiculous contract he wanted."

    Well he may be injury-prone, but that didn't stop us to sign JO and name me a better scoring center we've had since Brad left. Yep. Not one. We got Scot Pollard for Brad Miller. What a damn joke of a trade that was. I liked Scot, but we may as well have gotten a 6-pack of beer in return. Just because the Simons apparently didn't want to pay for him.

    And I would find it hard to root for them if they moved, I am a fan because they are my home team, and if the home team moves, I probably still follow them to my best ability but I don't care as much anymore.

    But, bottom line, something needs to be done to spark some energy in this franchise.
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    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helmet View Post
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    But, bottom line, something needs to be done to spark some energy in this franchise.
    Which is why it is justifiable to trade anybody on our roster right now, even Granger. Face it people, Granger is a glorified Dunleavy who at this point has some nice trade value because he is overrated among league executives but he's inconsistent on the offensive side and not a great defender, to me he's an average NBA starter on a bad-mediocre team and a 6th man on an elite team like the Mavs. And Granger will NOT be the future marketing tool of this franchise, he doesn't have the personality of a guy like Reggie to do so. He just hasn't put in the effort to make himself visible to the media off the court.

    Some with Diogu, while he's a level behind Granger he's still pretty overrated. We should package these guys with a player like Dunleavy or O'Neal as sweeteners to get something interesting going on with the Pacers. The team right now, as much as I support it, is bland and mediocre.

  3. #28
    Member Reckoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    The whole idea of teams moving is crap. Stay or fold, and if you want to keep the same number of teams in the league then create a new team. But move ? How could anyone support a team that moves ? They would be neither the old towns team or the new towns team.

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    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
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    The whole idea of teams moving is crap. Stay or fold, and if you want to keep the same number of teams in the league then create a new team. But move ? How could anyone support a team that moves ? They would be neither the old towns team or the new towns team.
    I'm sure a new city would embrace the Pacers. Look at the OKC situation with the Hornets.

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    The light, not the lie. kester99's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
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    The whole idea of teams moving is crap. Stay or fold, and if you want to keep the same number of teams in the league then create a new team. But move ? How could anyone support a team that moves ? They would be neither the old towns team or the new towns team.
    Dangerous talk around all these Colts fans, mate.

    P.S. Go Packers.
    Last edited by kester99; 01-07-2008 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Go Packers.
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

  6. #31

    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
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    How could anyone support a team that moves? They would be neither the old towns team or the new towns team.
    I can't recall all of them, but the list of teams that play today in a different city than where they started is very long.

    The Lakers started in Minnesota.
    The Jazz started in Kansas City.
    The Pistons started in Ft. Wayne.
    The Hornets started in Charlotte.
    The Kings started in Cincinnati.

    That's just a few from basketball. And as Kester points out, we're pretty content with our Colts.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    The Jazz were in Kansas City before New Orleans? I didn't know that.

  8. #33
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    Which is why it is justifiable to trade anybody on our roster right now, even Granger. Face it people, Granger is a glorified Dunleavy who at this point has some nice trade value because he is overrated among league executives but he's inconsistent on the offensive side and not a great defender, to me he's an average NBA starter on a bad-mediocre team and a 6th man on an elite team like the Mavs. And Granger will NOT be the future marketing tool of this franchise, he doesn't have the personality of a guy like Reggie to do so. He just hasn't put in the effort to make himself visible to the media off the court.

    Some with Diogu, while he's a level behind Granger he's still pretty overrated. We should package these guys with a player like Dunleavy or O'Neal as sweeteners to get something interesting going on with the Pacers. The team right now, as much as I support it, is bland and mediocre.
    The Simons could always sell the franchise....but I doubt it will happen for several reasons. First, they just made a huge investment in their HQ downtown. They appear to be here for the long haul....although they could always shed the Pacers. Another is that selling the franchise would definitely hurt commerce downtown including at the(ir) mall. Not sure what their financial stake is in the mall in terms of dollars, but it would be a drawback. Also, it would be very bad PR for them. In addition, they have to know things are likely to improve. The franchise has been dragged through the mud and might be seeing the bottom right now. In any event, if we get much worse, we will be drafting Eric Gordon and then they sell a whole lot more tickets.

    As for trading players, no one should be off limits. However, I doubt Granger will be traded because he is young, pretty good, and a good citizen. Basically, he represents an appreciating asset with very low risk....which is usually a very good investment you hang onto.

    The real trick will be what happens with JO during the next year or so. IMO, you can forget about him resigning with the Pacers because of his relationship with Bird, the mediocre status of the team and his own interest of competing for a championship. Fortunately, the team will be forced to make a move or lose Granger, Williams and/or Diogu in the next year or two. Know anyone with a big fat expiring and multiple first round picks?

  9. #34

    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    The Jazz were in Kansas City before New Orleans? I didn't know that.
    I didn't know it either. Like a moron I typed without thinking.

    The Cincinnati Royals moved to Kansas City and became the Kings. (they actually started in Rochester, NY.) The Jazz started, as you say, in New Orleans.




    BlueNGold, good comments, there.
    Last edited by Putnam; 01-07-2008 at 08:52 PM.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  10. #35
    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    I can't recall all of them, but the list of teams that play today in a different city than where they started is very long.

    The Lakers started in Minnesota.
    The Jazz started in Kansas City.
    The Pistons started in Ft. Wayne.
    The Hornets started in Charlotte.
    The Kings started in Cincinnati.

    That's just a few from basketball. And as Kester points out, we're pretty content with our Colts.
    Started me wondering....If there are more relocated team then there are original teams.

    Relocated Franchises: 14
    Atlanta Hawks (Tri-Cities Blackhawks; Moline IL/Davenport IA)
    Warriors (Phila. Warriors)
    Kings (Rochester Royals)
    Lakers (Minneapolis Lakers)
    Clippers (Buffalo Braves)
    Rockets (San Diego Rockets)
    Grizzlies (Vancouver Grizzlies)
    Hornets (Charlotte Hornets)
    76ers (Syracuse Nationals)
    Spurs (Dallas Chapparrals)
    Jazz (New Orleans Jazz)
    Wizards (Chicago Packers)
    Pistons (Zollner Pistons; Fort Waynen IN)
    Nets (New York Nets, but started as the New Jersey Americans)

    Original Frachise: 16
    Boston Celtics
    Seattle Sonics
    Portland Trailblazers
    Phoenix Suns
    Charlotte Bobcats
    Chicago Bulls
    Cleveland Cavaliers
    Dallas Mavricks
    Denver Nuggets (Originally named: Denver Rockets, not to be confused with the Rocket franchise)
    Indiana Pacers
    Miami Heat
    Milwaukee Bucks
    Minnesota Timberwolves
    New York Knicks
    Orlando Magic
    Toronto Raptors

    Looks like there are nearly as many relocated franchises as there are original franchises. If you take away the recent expansions.... The NBA would nearly be all relocated teams. I was suprised to see how many teams that were relocated.
    Last edited by Roaming Gnome; 01-07-2008 at 09:45 PM.
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  11. #36
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    I can't recall all of them, but the list of teams that play today in a different city than where they started is very long.

    The Lakers started in Minnesota.
    The Jazz started in Kansas City.
    The Pistons started in Ft. Wayne.
    The Hornets started in Charlotte.
    The Kings started in Cincinnati.

    That's just a few from basketball. And as Kester points out, we're pretty content with our Colts.
    Yeah it seems very popular and accepted in the States. Didn't mean any offence (don't follow NFL so don't know anything the Colts at all - just that Bill Simmons is obsessed with Mannings face ), just giving my perspective.

    In major sporting leagues outside of the States it's very rare. Teams aren't considered franchises (ownership structures are generally different in most cases) and where they are located is nearly (actually probably is) their whole identity. A last gasp move to save from bankruptcy is about the only reason a team will move. Even then most fans would rather see them die. Otherwise it's just about civil war trying to make it happen.

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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    Started me wondering....If there are more relocated team then there are original teams.

    Relocated Franchises: 14
    Atlanta Hawks (Tri-Cities Blackhawks; Moline IL/Davenport IA)
    Warriors (Phila. Warriors)
    Kings (Rochester Royals)
    Lakers (Minneapolis Lakers)
    Clippers (Buffalo Braves)
    Rockets (San Diego Rockets)
    Grizzlies (Vancouver Grizzlies)
    Hornets (Charlotte Hornets)
    76ers (Syracuse Nationals)
    Spurs (Dallas Chapparrals)
    Jazz (New Orleans Jazz)
    Wizards (Chicago Packers)
    Pistons (Zollner Pistons; Fort Waynen IN)
    Nets (New York Nets, but started as the New Jersey Americans)
    Some great names there.

  13. #38
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabama-Redneck View Post
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    I think it is a great idea. The city would get rid of all those "thugs" and I'm sure the crime rate would drop 40-50%.

    The city could downsize their police force and the newspapers could cut their sportswriters by 2/3's. Looks like a win-win sitution to me.

    The city could hold high school and college games in Conceso and sell the place out everytime.

    And yet sarcasm aside there are those that think your last line is true. I would love for them to be foolish enough to try and pack Conseco for college/HS games just to make my ongoing point/rant about "Hoosiers".

    Obviously the problem goes a lot further than the Pacers. I mean it's not that bad a drive up to W. Laf, but the people skipping Pacers games aren't going up there instead. And despite what they say I'm pretty sure none of them without kids in HS are swinging by the local HS gym just to get their basketball fix.

  14. #39
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    And yet sarcasm aside there are those that think your last line is true. I would love for them to be foolish enough to try and pack Conseco for college/HS games just to make my ongoing point/rant about "Hoosiers".

    Obviously the problem goes a lot further than the Pacers. I mean it's not that bad a drive up to W. Laf, but the people skipping Pacers games aren't going up there instead. And despite what they say I'm pretty sure none of them without kids in HS are swinging by the local HS gym just to get their basketball fix.
    With class basketball, I don't think anyone has to worry about HS games outdrawing the Pacers.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Not only did some of those teams move, but they did it more than once. The Clippers went from Buffalo to San Diego and then LA for example.


    And while I do agree with the idea that the name and colors maybe should stay at the original city if possible, I'm pretty sure we are more than comfortable with the Dodgers and the Giants being in LA/SF. I mean the volume of history those two teams have in their new cities matches what they had back in NY, and that's saying something.

    I do wish the Colts had left "Colts" back in Baltimore. But once they kept it and we learned to love it there is no way we are giving it up now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    With class basketball, I don't think anyone has to worry about HS games outdrawing the Pacers.

    -Bball
    Without a doubt.

    But people watch that film and act like it's still true, at least some people do. Texas might still be living Friday Night Lights, but we aren't living Hoosiers one bit. I'm no die-hard myself, but I'll make that W. Laf drive a couple of times and did so even when they stunk in recent years.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-08-2008 at 03:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Some great names there.
    Here's some even cooler names from the ABA, most of which I saw as a young-un;
    Pittsburgh Pipers and Condors
    Oakland Oaks
    New Orleans Buccaneers
    Minnesota Muskies
    Carolina Cougars
    Virginia Squires
    San Diego Conquistadors
    Memphis Pros, Tams (get it, Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi), and Sounds
    Spirits of St. Louis (the bad-*** team of all time featuring Marvin "Bad News" Barnes, Maurice Lucas, Gus Gerard, Fly Williams, and M.L. Carr).

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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabama-Redneck View Post
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    I think it is a great idea. The city would get rid of all those "thugs" and I'm sure the crime rate would drop 40-50%.

    The city could downsize their police force and the newspapers could cut their sportswriters by 2/3's. Looks like a win-win sitution to me.

    The city could hold high school and college games in Conceso and sell the place out everytime.

    LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanGabriel View Post
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    Here's some even cooler names from the ABA, most of which I saw as a young-un;
    Pittsburgh Pipers and Condors
    Oakland Oaks
    New Orleans Buccaneers
    Minnesota Muskies
    Carolina Cougars
    Virginia Squires
    San Diego Conquistadors
    Memphis Pros, Tams (get it, Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi), and Sounds
    Spirits of St. Louis (the bad-*** team of all time featuring Marvin "Bad News" Barnes, Maurice Lucas, Gus Gerard, Fly Williams, and M.L. Carr).
    Those are damn good ones, don't get me wrong, but something about New Jersey Americans just hits the right chord. In a related thought, I think our national team should from now on be named, in honor of Miss South Carolina, the US Americans.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    And yet sarcasm aside there are those that think your last line is true. I would love for them to be foolish enough to try and pack Conseco for college/HS games just to make my ongoing point/rant about "Hoosiers".

    Obviously the problem goes a lot further than the Pacers. I mean it's not that bad a drive up to W. Laf, but the people skipping Pacers games aren't going up there instead. And despite what they say I'm pretty sure none of them without kids in HS are swinging by the local HS gym just to get their basketball fix.
    Before class basketball they could have filled Conseco with some games. Class basketball
    killed HS basketball in Indiana and the following it had. That was part of what Indiana was.
    Yep, pretty much drove a stake right through the heart.
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Well, after this season's 'performance', I'd think the Pacers would be more worried about losing us than vice versa. I mean, the few of us who still care, though are really trying hard not to.

  21. #46

    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Another thing to consider are cities we could lose them to. A lot of cities have baseball, which at first glance wouldn't seem to matter, but baseball takes a lot of an economy's revenue $$$ w/ 81 games. A city can support basketball + football for the same cost as baseball.

    -You can rule out Indy-sized towns with baseball like KC and Cincinnati.
    -You can rule out towns that already have two sports that carry into winter like St. Louis + Buffalo
    -You can rule out towns that are close to competing franchises like Tampa and Baltimore and probably San Jose
    -You can rule out any town with baseball and one competing winter sport, because those w/out basketball are too small for it with that kind of competition (Pittsburgh)


    Bigger than Indy:
    Seattle - assuming loss to OKC. If no Sonics, why Pacers?
    San Diego - southern CA and baseball

    About the same size:
    Virginia Beach
    Vegas - gambling???
    Columbus OH
    Jacksonville
    Louisville
    Richmond
    Nashville - Memphis to allow??

    I don't see a lot of exciting alternatives from a business perspective.

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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    I say they move to Atlantic City and become the Garden State Warriors.

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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I say they move to Atlantic City and become the Garden State Warriors.

    I say they move to central Georgia and become the Macon Whoopies.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  24. #49
    The light, not the lie. kester99's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    I say they move to central Georgia and become the Macon Whoopies.
    That was horr-r-rible. Well done.

    I just want to say this one more time....Speedway Supersonics. Huh? Huh?
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

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    Default Re: Are we going to lose the Pacers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helmet View Post
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    I really think we're overreacting here. If the Pacers could just somehow do something to generate some "excitement" then I think attendance would get a little better and start to be fine overall.

    But seriously, trying to win back fans with Travis Diener and Kareem Rush isn't cutting it, at least the casuals, which is a lot of the fan base.

    If the the Pacers could somehow show the fans they are committed to winning a championship, I think things get a little better. Just 4-5 years ago this same thing was thought about the Colts and was probably laughed at if people asked about the Pacers leaving town.

    Start winning. Get exciting players. That will get you some fans back. Sorry Larry/Donnie, I know getting that exciting player will be tough, but if you want more fans in the Fieldhouse, you're going to have to find a way.

    I'm not overreacting, just curious. I have been working with the Pacers for years now with the exception of last season because I moved out of state. Since the 61 win season I have seen a steady decline in attendance. I mean, even the playoffs weren't all sold out during that time. This season though, in terms of attendance, is really painful to see. Weekend games don't even generate interest anymore. Season ticket holders would attest to it. I hope the team stays. Maybe blowing this whole thing up isn't such a bad thing to do right now. I mean, what's worse than people not caring about you? Maybe by blowing it up we can regenerate a new fan base that can support the new team from the ground up.

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