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Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

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  • Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

    Due to a busy Nov-Dec I've not had a chance to catch many games, or catch them in their entirety anyway. This also isn't helped by the sprinkling of UNtelevised games.

    BUT that said-

    When I have watched, and tonight was no exception, the offense doesn't look like an offense at all. I don't see a lot of screening going on. There's usually some motion but it looks helter skelter and many shots just seem to come when one of the guys decides it's time to take a shot (or so it appears). It's certainly not a smart motion game that I'm seeing. How about making the defense really work and fight thru screens?

    I don't see any sharpness in the cuts. None.

    Worse, some (many?) of the barrage of 3's come at inopportune times... Nothing like a momentum killing wasted possession leading to a long rebound and easy basket the other way.

    I think JO just might be the slowest player on the court in most games and there's no crispness to his movement at all.

    As most of you know, I've grown fairly unimpressed with JO over the years to the point I think it's best for parties to move on. For a player that is paid what he is paid, the return on the payment is WAY low.

    I'm also less than impressed with the defense I've seen. Offense will come and go... especially when you play it bad like we're known to do with quick 3's and hurried looks (and JO's patented turnaround clanker too)... but defense should be a constant. Our defense appears mainly to be constantly bad. Our best hope is that our shots fall early and the other team quits. Anytime the other team has some heart and hangs in there (even when down) our willy nilly offense will go cold, and our defense will let them back in the game.

    And for another knock on JO... I don't see this good or great defense some of you say he brings. Yeah, sometimes he blocks a shot. I've never considered shot blocking to be the only sign of good defense. JO's man usually has his way in the games that I've seen. JO might swat away a penetrating guard's shot but his own man's game doesn't seem that swayed by JO.

    I feel the same way about JO as some of you do about Murphy. ...Only difference being I'm trying to still give Murphy the benefit of the doubt. JO has used his up. But it's getting harder by the minute to give Murphy much more slack.

    I'm not seeing any coming together with this team either. I think JOB is blowing smoke when he's talking about his belief in them finishing strong. This team isn't made to finish strong because it's so badly put together that 'chemistry' will always be a problem.

    I realize Tinsley is out now (not that he'll help the defense) but we shouldn't have to rely on an unreliable player in the first place. Tinsley is unreliable on 2 counts:
    Injury Prone
    Mentally/Attitude

    You just can't trust that he can keep either one of those in check.

    As for what to do about all this? I haven't got the foggiest idea. Most of this stuff has been piling up for years. Other teams cut their losses and move on instead of letting this stuff fester until something HAS to be done (then it's a rushed, half-a$$, panic move).

    I hope Bynum was never actually offered for JO, and I hope we did try and trade JO for Bynum and LA rejected it.

    It's getting to a point that the best thing JO can bring to this team is an offer not to take his option. But that doesn't mean that getting rid of JO fixes anything immediately... it just opens the door to a process where we can start fixing things.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  • #2
    Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

    Originally posted by Bball View Post
    It's getting to a point that the best thing JO can bring to this team is an offer not to take his option. But that doesn't mean that getting rid of JO fixes anything immediately... it just opens the door to a process where we can start fixing things.
    I feel the exact same way.

    I'd love to see more major changes with this team but man I defiantly will not bet on any anytime soon. That's for sure.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

      JO's man to man defense has never been stellar, it's his help defense that makes him somewhat of an anchor inside. Too bad he had Murphy next to him most of the time, and because of that he had to play D on Bynum, and he was pretty much slaughtered by the young guy.

      Jo only took jumpshots on the other end, no posting up and driving it to the hoop. Even Kwame Brown had more success with his moves.

      I think JO wasn't really bad tonight, but the team seemed to play better when he was out.

      So yes I would go for that Odom/Kwame/Critt package at this point.
      Maceo Baston's #1 fan on Pacers Digest!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

        I posted this in the post game thread but I think Oneal/Harrison for Odom/Crittendon/Brown could be a good trade for both teams. LA is looking very good and getting some real muscle to pair with Bynum in the frontcourt might be just what they need to get over the hump in the west.

        Meanwhile we get a nice PG prospect (he had an immpressive showing a few nights ago against phily) and lots of expiring contracts. Brown expires and Odom expires next year, gives time to evaluate to see if we would want to keep him. Let Crittenden get some PT behind Jammal and when crit looks ready trade Jammal and see what we can get. If Jammal continues playing like he has been he might have nice trade value.
        "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

        - ilive4sports

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

          Stay the course....1,000 points of light......

          JO's trade value is tumbling. I can't see any team still offering what was rumored to be on the table over the summer.

          There's a whole lot wrong with this team and it starts at the top.
          I'm in these bands
          The Humans
          Dr. Goldfoot
          The Bar Brawlers
          ME

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

            Originally posted by Bball View Post
            And for another knock on JO... I don't see this good or great defense some of you say he brings. Yeah, sometimes he blocks a shot. I've never considered shot blocking to be the only sign of good defense. JO's man usually has his way in the games that I've seen. JO might swat away a penetrating guard's shot but his own man's game doesn't seem that swayed by JO.
            I haven't seen any games this season....so I can't really comment too much on his defense....but the only part that you left out was that he's still pretty good at drawing offensive fouls....the only part of his defensive game that I think he is still good at. But since I am of the belief that his offensive game has been affected by his willingness to take too much abuse and contact in the paint.....I too think that this part of his defensive game will begin to fade.

            Originally posted by Bball View Post
            As for what to do about all this? I haven't got the foggiest idea. Most of this stuff has been piling up for years. Other teams cut their losses and move on instead of letting this stuff fester until something HAS to be done (then it's a rushed, half-a$$, panic move).

            I hope Bynum was never actually offered for JO, and I hope we did try and trade JO for Bynum and LA rejected it.

            It's getting to a point that the best thing JO can bring to this team is an offer not to take his option. But that doesn't mean that getting rid of JO fixes anything immediately... it just opens the door to a process where we can start fixing things.

            -Bball
            Easy......stop fooling ourselves into believing that we should compete for a Playoff spot ( and likely 4-5 game exit in the 1st round ) and start the rebuilding process.....not continue to retool....and we all know where that hast to start.

            It may mean that we have to sell JONeal at a lower price....but honestly....I've seen enough of this team and the way that this offense has to run to know that with the given lineup that we have.....it requires ALOT of things to fall into place ( something that we all knew from the beginning of the season ) in order for us to even become competitive. I just don't think that we have the ability to "fire on all cylinders" for an entire season in order for JO'Bs system to work.

            Also.....I don't think that there is too much benefit in continuing to showcase the talents of a Big Man in an offense that only highlights his weaknesses. I don't want to undervalue whatever trade value that JONeal has...but I also think that it's very possible to overvalue what his value it. This doesn't mean that we should move him for anything....I'm just hoping that his trade value isn't that low that we can't get a future draft pick, Expiring Contract and some player that would fit our needs.
            Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

              Originally posted by Bball View Post
              Due to a busy Nov-Dec I've not had a chance to catch many games, or catch them in their entirety anyway. This also isn't helped by the sprinkling of UNtelevised games.

              BUT that said-

              When I have watched, and tonight was no exception, the offense doesn't look like an offense at all. I don't see a lot of screening going on. There's usually some motion but it looks helter skelter and many shots just seem to come when one of the guys decides it's time to take a shot (or so it appears). It's certainly not a smart motion game that I'm seeing. How about making the defense really work and fight thru screens?

              I don't see any sharpness in the cuts. None.

              Worse, some (many?) of the barrage of 3's come at inopportune times... Nothing like a momentum killing wasted possession leading to a long rebound and easy basket the other way.

              I think JO just might be the slowest player on the court in most games and there's no crispness to his movement at all.

              As most of you know, I've grown fairly unimpressed with JO over the years to the point I think it's best for parties to move on. For a player that is paid what he is paid, the return on the payment is WAY low.

              I'm also less than impressed with the defense I've seen. Offense will come and go... especially when you play it bad like we're known to do with quick 3's and hurried looks (and JO's patented turnaround clanker too)... but defense should be a constant. Our defense appears mainly to be constantly bad. Our best hope is that our shots fall early and the other team quits. Anytime the other team has some heart and hangs in there (even when down) our willy nilly offense will go cold, and our defense will let them back in the game.

              And for another knock on JO... I don't see this good or great defense some of you say he brings. Yeah, sometimes he blocks a shot. I've never considered shot blocking to be the only sign of good defense. JO's man usually has his way in the games that I've seen. JO might swat away a penetrating guard's shot but his own man's game doesn't seem that swayed by JO.

              I feel the same way about JO as some of you do about Murphy. ...Only difference being I'm trying to still give Murphy the benefit of the doubt. JO has used his up. But it's getting harder by the minute to give Murphy much more slack.

              I'm not seeing any coming together with this team either. I think JOB is blowing smoke when he's talking about his belief in them finishing strong. This team isn't made to finish strong because it's so badly put together that 'chemistry' will always be a problem.

              I realize Tinsley is out now (not that he'll help the defense) but we shouldn't have to rely on an unreliable player in the first place. Tinsley is unreliable on 2 counts:
              Injury Prone
              Mentally/Attitude

              You just can't trust that he can keep either one of those in check.

              As for what to do about all this? I haven't got the foggiest idea. Most of this stuff has been piling up for years. Other teams cut their losses and move on instead of letting this stuff fester until something HAS to be done (then it's a rushed, half-a$$, panic move).

              I hope Bynum was never actually offered for JO, and I hope we did try and trade JO for Bynum and LA rejected it.

              It's getting to a point that the best thing JO can bring to this team is an offer not to take his option. But that doesn't mean that getting rid of JO fixes anything immediately... it just opens the door to a process where we can start fixing things.

              -Bball
              Well damn it... I haven't made a decent contribution to this forum for God knows how long and then when I finally decide that I can't take it anymore and it's time to start complaining (oh and believe me I'm going to start complaining)... you go and say everything that I have on my mind before I get around to posting it .... it's not the first time you've done that to me Ball.... getoutta my head will ya!!

              Theres nothing I can add that you haven't already put down here soooo.... anyways.. yep, well that's that then isn't it. As usual I agree with you 100% on everything.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

                Originally posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
                Stay the course....1,000 points of light......

                JO's trade value is tumbling. I can't see any team still offering what was rumored to be on the table over the summer.

                There's a whole lot wrong with this team and it starts at the top.
                Yup! But, then JO has 5 or 10 good games and his supporters will start demanding elite players and the likes for him or he gets injured again (or both). That's been the story for several years now IMO.

                Regards,

                Mourning
                2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

                  Bball, since you haven't seen many games, probably the first thing you'll notice is that the Pacers can look very, very good and then within a seconds can look, very, very bad. No lead is safe and by the same token, but to a much lesser degree no deficit is too great.

                  There is also some games where there is just a talent gap, and the other team is just better. (The home game against the Pistons comes to mind). I can live with that though. it is the losses after having a nice lead against poor teams that is driving me crazy - because it is a pattern.

                  The other thing is this team has no one court leadership (especially with tinsley out, because he is the oncourt leader) right now the closest thing to an oncourt leader is Mike Dunleavy or Jeff Foster)

                  One other thing, what has happened with Daniels shot, never seen so many airballs from the 15 feet before - almost everyone of his shots outside of 10 feet barely hit the rim or are airballs

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

                    There's really nothing to be excited or impressed with about this team. It's just all-around blandness. Our current rotation is mediocre, and our young talent isn't great. We have no present and our future isn't looking great either, at least not with the current management.

                    At least Dunleavy and Tinsley may have played their way into having some trade value. Let's take advantage of that and start the rebuilding process sooner rather than later. The sooner we start, the sooner re return to being a relevant basketball team.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

                      Originally posted by Kofi View Post
                      At least Dunleavy and Tinsley may have played their way into having some trade value. Let's take advantage of that and start the rebuilding process sooner rather than later. The sooner we start, the sooner re return to being a relevant basketball team.
                      Those are currently our two most valuable player, so be careful. Plus I don't think either has much trade value, they are much more valuable to us than they are as trade value

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

                        Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                        Those are currently our two most valuable player, so be careful. Plus I don't think either has much trade value, they are much more valuable to us than they are as trade value
                        QFT

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

                          Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                          Those are currently our two most valuable player, so be careful. Plus I don't think either has much trade value, they are much more valuable to us than they are as trade value
                          Aggreed.
                          2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                          2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                          2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

                            Our most valuable trading piece is our 1st round pick, which I don't want to give up 2 years in a row unless a true and obvious talent or future talent is brought in for it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Well... Not impressed.. Random thoughts

                              Originally posted by pwee31 View Post
                              Our most valuable trading piece is our 1st round pick, which I don't want to give up 2 years in a row unless a true and obvious talent or future talent is brought in for it.
                              By league rule (or better known as the Ted Stepian rule) a team cannot trade first round draft pics in consecutive years. So if the Cavs offered us James, if the Magic offered us Howard or if the Lakers offered us Bynum and all they wanted in return was our first round draft pic, we couldn't do it.

                              Ted Stepian was the Cavs owner during the early 80's and he traded first round draft picks like they were baseball cards

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