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Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

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  • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Oh, and Derrick Rose is great. No news here.

    Comment


    • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

      Heres a good article on the Memphis-UCLA players.

      http://www3.realgm.com/src_wiretap/

      How The Prospects Fared
      Matthew Gordon/RealGM
      04/05 - 9:19 PM EST


      Despite the widespread love of underdogs, this Final Four is especially magical in that it’s the first one ever to feature all four number-one seeds. All boasting 30-win regular seasons in addition to their incredible tournament performances, Memphis, UCLA, UNC and Kansas are relatively evenly matched. For the college fan, this is a great weekend.

      NBA fans can be equally excited, though, as these games are laden with draft prospects. Four of UCLA’s starters (Darren Collison, Russell Westbrook, Luc-Richard Mbah a Moute and Kevin Love) are considered pro material, and three of Memphis’s starters (Derrick Rose, Chris Douglas-Roberts and Joey Dorsey) share this honor. Since there are so many legitimate prospects in this game, it’s a good place to start.

      Rose and Love, as the two top prospects in this game, have to garner the most attention. Rose, a strong guard with that to-die-for combination of passing and scoring, is a player who should make an immediate impact in the NBA despite his freshman status. Love, a crafty big man whose size has been disputed, faces no such doubts about his heart; although also a freshman, he has quickly become the linchpin of a dominant college team. They both won Most Outstanding Player of their respective regionals, making their high draft positions look justified.

      Otherwise, UCLA is bolstered by a speedy point guard in Collison and a couple of athletic defenders in Westbrook and Mbah a Moute. Memphis’s Douglas-Roberts is an athletic scorer and Dorsey is a defensive big man who can create problems for opposing offenses.

      Derrick Rose

      Rose is a player who could be viewed as a savior for some of the NBA’s worst teams. He’d look in place giving the ball to young scorers like Al Jefferson and Kevin Durant, and Stephen A. Smith recently remarked that Rose would be a great fit on the Knicks. It’s fair to say that any of those teams could use a point guard, especially one who at 6’4” and 200 pounds can wear down his opponents physically while retaining considerable quickness.

      The main question facing Rose has been whether he can become a ball-control point guard. Averaging 4.4 assists to 3.0 turnovers on the season, he certainly hasn’t lived up to the Jason Kidd comparisons in that department. He’s shown flashes though, and sometimes those are enough to be drafted very high.

      Consider that question dispelled. Against UCLA, Rose looked like a player who understands his responsibilities and is collected even at the most pressured of times. A questionable free-throw shooter, to up his percentage by about ten for the tournament and then go 11-for-12 in such a key game says a lot. On top of that, he didn’t make stupid decisions with the ball, being poised enough to slow down the pace when necessary even though he’s looked great running the floor. It’s that kind of mentality that will make him a successful pro.

      Rose is also a dynamic scorer. More so than his teammate Douglas-Roberts, who was also very good, Rose wasn’t too rash in his drives, holding back when he needed to but similarly recognizing when there’s an opportunity to score. Rose’s strength and quickness guarantee that when he smells blood, there will be two points. From the outside, he’s been a surprisingly good jump-shooter, and in this game he again used that patience he’s developed to make smart decisions. His shortcomings have never been physical, they’ve been about getting into a pro mindset, and that’s something he’s been doing.

      Darren Collison’s play this game didn’t merit a section in this article so I’ll simply talk about the contrast between the two players. Both looked best when driving but Collison only had one drive on which he actually scored so that might even be a stretch for him. Collison’s two points on the game, including a second half with no points and four fouls, weren’t enough, especially considering his utter failure to feed Love in the post. Rose’s post-game comments that “they’re kind of small, and I’m big” couldn’t have been more accurate. The undersized Collison, who will have to battle size issues in the NBA, came up small. Rose, with the ability to tire out his man with brute strength, looked like a champion. Memphis’s record-setting 38-wins will enshrine them in history even if they don’t win their next game.

      Rose is slated as a top-three pick, maybe first overall, and I can think of a few teams that would love to draft him. Smith’s prayer appears to be well-founded.

      Kevin Love

      Love is one of the most developed big men in this year’s draft, should he declare. His all-around game and ability to play the four and possibly a little five makes him a very coveted prospect who still has potential but has already shown a lot. Teams like the Grizzlies, Heat and Bulls, depending on where they draft, could all use a player capable of playing both ways in the post.

      What impresses me about Love is that there’s not really a facet of his game that can be disparaged. At only 6’9”, 6’10” on a good day, he can significantly alter the other team’s game plan. As a scoring option in the post, he’s refined and he’s willing to be a focal point (22 points per game). On the glass, he has the instinct to know where the ball will go and the will to chase it relentlessly (11 rebounds per game). His 12 points on 4-for-12 shooting against Memphis can be chalked up to his lack of touches more than anything. Defensively, he doesn’t make the mistake of leaving his feet, instead contesting every shot.

      It’s refreshing to see a young big man who immediately sets up with his back to the basket. Given the recent trend of big men tending toward face-up games, this helps Love in two ways: firstly, that he’ll be a rarer commodity in the NBA; and secondly, that a team with a face-up big man can use him as a complement. He will need to work on passing out of double-teams a bit (he was burned for a turnover in the first half against Memphis) but that comes with time. What’s important for now is that he can gain separation from his man and use that soft touch to put the ball in the hole.

      Off the ball, Love demonstrates a similar commitment to making the offense work. With a 260-pound frame, he can set screens that will virtually block out his teammate’s man, and then he can cut to the hoop for a quick pass that’s almost a guaranteed two. Players like Elton Brand and Carlos Boozer have made at least part of their livings off of utilizing the screen with such effectiveness and their crucial roles are proof of what a big man with a post game, rebounding and screen-setting can achieve. If Love pans out as hoped, this is the kind of career the team drafting him will want: a serious threat on offense who can use his body to create opportunities for his teammates and his quickness to get open near the hoop.

      Love’s rebounding might be the single most impressive facet of his game. With six rebounds in the first half, he went up against Memphis’s wide-bodied Joey Dorsey with success. What’s most promising in this respect is his offensive rebounding; too many players, especially young ones, shy away from following their shots, and the result is that the ones who do tend to look really good. A team like Cleveland, with four good offensive rebounders (Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Ben Wallace, Anderson Varejao and LeBron James) but not a lot of guard talent, has been successful largely because of determination in the frontcourt.

      If there’s one bad thing about Love’s game, it’s that he is not a shot-blocker. Averaging only 1.4 on the season, a respectable number in the pros but not what would be expected from a top-flight shot-blocker in college, he clearly won’t make an impact in that area in the NBA. As long as he’s beside a guy who can block shots, like Joakim Noah in Chicago or Darko Milicic in Memphis, he’ll be fine.

      Man-on, Love’s defense is very good. He uses his body effectively and rotates well, so he won’t be a liability in that respect. He also snagged a ball right out of the air near the end of the first half, allowing his team to go into the half down only three, and took a great charge on Chris Douglas-Roberts (to be mentioned later). Something else about his game is that because he’s not a shot-blocker and he knows it, he won’t pick up cheap fouls that a more natural leaper might be prone to get. Love might not end up being a lockdown guy at the NBA level but he’ll certainly hold his own. His musculature and instincts will make sure of it.

      Overall, Love looks like a sure-fire top-ten pick for a team wanting to improve in a hurry. He isn’t the most athletic, although he’s decent there, but he’s got the fundamentals and the drive to make something happen in the NBA.

      Chris Douglas-Roberts

      Douglas-Roberts is defined by his aggressiveness. Never unwilling to take a shot, he’s a player who looks to generate offense anyway he can. A player who can both drive (5.4FTA) and hit the three (41.6 3PT%), he can wreak havoc with opposing defenses and certainly did with UCLA’s (28 points, 9-for-16 shooting). His 9-for-11 from the line was encouraging too, although his season mark of 70.9% is better than the team’s total anemia from the stripe.

      Something Douglas-Roberts will need to do at the next level is temper that aggressiveness. He has the same problem Corey Maggette had in that he has a bull-in-a-china-shop air to him and the referees won’t necessarily cut him slack. A couple times in the first half, he would make a great-looking drive, blazing past multiple UCLA defenders, only to force a shot that wouldn’t go in. At the start of the second half, he started out great with a spin move to the hole but then forfeited any gain he might’ve made by crashing right into Kevin Love, who’s a player with a reputation and with great court awareness. As mentioned, Love isn’t a shot-blocker, he’s a positional defender; unlike the typical method of attacking the shot-blocker in order to get him into foul trouble, the way to score on players like Love is to get out of their range. Douglas-Roberts has to be cognizant of his surroundings and avoid getting out of control.

      It’s pretty clear that Douglas-Roberts’s niche is as a scorer. He looks a little like Ron Mercer in that regard, a lanky 6’7” guy who can score from anywhere and play passable defense but who doesn’t attack the glass much. He should be available in the middle of the first round and a team looking for a player with his skill set could benefit from taking him. He needs to calm down a little though.

      Other Observations

      Russell Westbrook looked really good and is making a case for himself as a big-time NBA prospect. His 22 points were all that kept the game from being even worse for UCLA, and he got them in a variety of ways. A drive from Westbrook could result in a pull-up jumper or he could go all the way, and Memphis never figured out how to stop him. That kind of scoring, if he can do it consistently, is the missing piece to go along with his pesky perimeter defense and make him more than another Royal Ivey.

      Joey Dorsey did what he was supposed to do, which is clear the glass and not care if he scores. With no points and 15 rebounds, he played a team game with no regard to his own personal glory, and it’s resulted in him having a chance to win the ultimate team honor. He also played great defense on Love, taking advantage of UCLA’s perplexed look on offense to deny Love the ball. Love’s two points in the second half can at least partially be attributed to Dorsey’s defense.

      Prospects aside, one thing to remember about this game is that Memphis did win by fifteen points, blowing out UCLA in the second half. Down the stretch, Rose looked exceptional, Douglas-Roberts scored well and Dorsey owned the boards. Players excelling in their roles are the ones who do well in the pros, where it’s still a team game, and all three guys are definitely getting looks from NBA scouts. On UCLA’s side, Westbrook did his job and Love at least tried to do his but Collison’s poor play hampered the team too much. UCLA needed more points out of Love and more everything out of Collison if it wanted to win this game. Hats off to Memphis, a team with some NBA-ready players and a title-ready team. [READ]

      Comment


      • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

        CableKC-

        Well said. And I agree, the bottom line with this draft pick is that
        the Pacers can't afford to miss on it. They have to make sure
        they either get a kid who is destined to be a key component of
        the nucleus that leads them forward or use the pick in a deal
        that nets that kind of existing, young NBA guy.

        And dovetailing with that reality is that those of us who've steadfastly
        preferred picking at #7-8 to making a fruitless run at the playoffs
        that leaves us at #11-12 we'ren't out to lunch. In this draft, the
        difference may well be huge.

        Comment


        • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

          May well be huge.

          That is what you are willing to tank the rest of this season? A may well be huge.

          Comment


          • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

            intridcold-

            This oughta clear up my stance. I don't give a **** about this
            season. Period.

            Of course, I don't expect the players, coaches or most fans
            to agree with me.

            Comment


            • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

              Originally posted by Kraft View Post
              Collison makes me ... ugh ... dribble, dribble, stupid foul, dribble, dribble. He's got the physical skill, but I don't see it ever clicking upstairs.

              One thing's for sure: Kevin Love has to play in Utah, or somewhere like it. He's never going to be a factor in an up-and-down game. He's a walk-it-up-the-court-and-set-the-offense player. The only reason I'd like him for the Pacers is that I'd rather see that type of offense in the future; call me crazy, I don't see Jim O'Brien's let 'er rip scheme lasting that long.

              Rim was right in saying CDR was hard to evaluate. If he was playing for Weber State, how would he look? He's a run-jump athlete that doesn't exhibit a lot of skills that scream "NBA level." But damn, he's effective.
              Don't judge Collison solely based on this game. He'll be an NBA PG, maybe not a great one, but he'll play and contribute positively somewhere. You can't knock him for not being able to guard Derrick Rose. It's not like Westbrook, who many people consider the best perimeter defender in college basketball, did a great job on Rose himself.
              "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

              - Salman Rushdie

              Comment


              • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
                I wouldn't.

                And that foul 45 feet from the hoop with 3:00 minutes left in a Final Four game tells me just about all I need to know about Collison, who I like less and less every time I see.
                I like Westbrook more than CDR too. I've seen both have good and bad nights but over the long haul I think W'brook has been more reliable.

                However this is a bingo on Collison. He's not as bad as this game, but it showed that given an unfavorable matchup he's far worse than he was looking a few weeks ago.

                Rose just put both Augustin and Collison in perspective, which is exactly why I've been wanting Love there instead. Total impact rather than settling due to need.


                Now Love's game was a good measure. Yes his scoring was down a bit, but that's about where I think he'd slot on a given night. You saw the total package, good and bad. He was smart, stayed on the floor instead of chasing shots, but also got dunked on and was unable to dominate Dorsey.

                You won't get the highlight blocks, but then why was a perimeter player coming to the rim for the dunk in the first place with all those "great" UCLA defensive guards? How many times did you see him not chase on a fake and force a guy to make the shot straight up resulting in a miss?

                OTOH most people have been seeing Dorsey as Dale/Big Ben caliber and if it wasn't for attitude he'd be on the Pacer radar. So I think this was a great view of "pro vs pro" and both showed you what you will get with them. Just how many points did the Memphis bigs score on Love? Didn't exactly show him as a weak defender. Dorsey isn't Lopez, but then Love had decent success stopping him too.


                Over to Kansas, Rush proved his full game too. He was a little streaky, but ultimately the reason I like him is for those times when he does inject himself into the game. He shies from being the star, but when left to just fit in where it's needed he tends to shine. When the lead fell to 4 he came up with a huge offensive rebound and score and then a huge defensive rebound at the other end.

                That's Rush, that's how he impacts a game. Thus the McKey comparisons I've been making (but at SG obviously).


                There are lots of talented prospects, but Love and Rush keep showing that intangibles side, the smarts, the apparent coachability, the knack for injecting themselves at key moments.


                One thing about Love/Westbrook and NBA talent defenders. Remind me again about how Westbrook scored at will against Courtney Lee. (hint: 3-15) Exactly.

                Westbrook won't score like that regularly because he already hasn't. It's only been a few games ago when it was Collison doing the EXACT SAME THING Westbrook just did. So I guess it's back to top 5 for Collison.

                Or maybe the truth is that this was his night in a favorable matchup. He's NBA caliber, no one has denied that. I was praising him months ago myself. But don't let this game fool you if you didn't also watch them in the Pac 10 tourney. The dude was shooting 33% from the field in the previous 6 games (Pac10/NCAA tourney games).
                Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 04-07-2008, 01:20 PM.

                Comment


                • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                  Originally posted by Kraft View Post
                  Collison makes me ... ugh ... dribble, dribble, stupid foul, dribble, dribble. He's got the physical skill, but I don't see it ever clicking upstairs.

                  One thing's for sure: Kevin Love has to play in Utah, or somewhere like it. He's never going to be a factor in an up-and-down game. He's a walk-it-up-the-court-and-set-the-offense player. The only reason I'd like him for the Pacers is that I'd rather see that type of offense in the future; call me crazy, I don't see Jim O'Brien's let 'er rip scheme lasting that long.

                  Rim was right in saying CDR was hard to evaluate. If he was playing for Weber State, how would he look? He's a run-jump athlete that doesn't exhibit a lot of skills that scream "NBA level." But damn, he's effective.
                  Don't judge Collison solely based on this game. He'll be an NBA PG, maybe not a great one, but he'll play and contribute positively somewhere. You can't knock him for not being able to guard Derrick Rose. It's not like Westbrook, who many people consider the best perimeter defender in college basketball, did a great job on Rose himself.

                  Don't overlook the fact that Kevin Love is, quite possibly, one of the best outlet passers at any level. Combine that with the fact that he's a very good rebounder and has range that will probably allow him to hit the three as a trailer (a la Troy Murphy), and you've got a guy who can be effective without having the athletic ability to outrun guys.

                  CD-R will be able to score at the NBA level. As long as he keeps his effort level high and plays defense as well as his physical abilities allow him to, he'll be a valuable player for a long time. I could see him being a great 6th man for a very good team, but I think that his ceiling is even higher than that.

                  Here's a question for everybody. How much would you give up to get Derrick Rose?

                  Granger and our 1st for Rose? What about Granger and 2 1st rounders? Ike + Shawne + our 1st? JO + our 1st for Rose and some awful contracts?
                  "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                  - Salman Rushdie

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                  • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                    Side note on Rose. The player that did have some success slowing him down? OJ Mayo. Neither had a great game that night, but Rose didn't even defend Mayo. However Mayo was on Rose the entire time, and as was reported this was by Mayo's own desire (at least partially). He wanted that challenge.



                    One thing I do agree with Kraft regarding Collison, he is addicted to the dribble. He's been forcing his own dribble drive, wasting clock and going total Travis Best for weeks now. That's his negative, at least his main one.

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                    • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                      Does Rush have the quickness to defend at the NBA SG level?

                      When I look at DraftExpress.....Rush's likely NBA position is SF.

                      Also...with his increased exposure from the NCAA Championship game, is it possible for Rush to raise his stock to the 15-20 range?
                      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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                      • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                        I don't see Rush touching 15-20 range. If Noah's lack of play last year did not nock him out of the lottery, then Rush's play should not help him that much. It all has to do with matchups. Rush has gotten the right ones. And that is why I am so enamoured with Rose. Outplayed fellows Pgs Augustine, Collinson, and Westbrook.

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                        • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                          I feel if Douglas Roberts has a real good championship game he could lock up a pick in the 10-15 range very easy. I do not see Hansborough turning pro anymore. He will play his senior year at North Carolina.

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                          • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                            Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                            Does Rush have the quickness to defend at the NBA SG level?
                            I'd say that he does. He held Curry to 9-25 or something. I think when he gets fully into shape, he'll find consistency everywhere because he has a nice J.

                            Anybody thinking Mayo could drop to where we could get him; maybe out of the top five?
                            You Got The Tony!!!!!!

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                            • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                              Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
                              I feel if Douglas Roberts has a real good championship game he could lock up a pick in the 10-15 range very easy. I do not see Hansborough turning pro anymore. He will play his senior year at North Carolina.
                              Hansbrough isn't all of a sudden going to become quicker and taller by staying another year in college. He is what he is and he'd just be sacraficing a year's worth of NBA salary by staying another year.

                              And as it is, Hansbrough will be 23 by the start of the next NBA season. If he stays another year at UNC, he'd enter the following NBA season as a 24 year old rookie. I don't think that would do any favors for his draft stock.

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                              • Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                                Originally posted by d_c View Post
                                Hansbrough isn't all of a sudden going to become quicker and taller by staying another year in college. He is what he is and he'd just be sacraficing a year's worth of NBA salary by staying another year.

                                And as it is, Hansbrough will be 23 by the start of the next NBA season. If he stays another year at UNC, he'd enter the following NBA season as a 24 year old rookie. I don't think that would do any favors for his draft stock.
                                Tyler doesn't need the money; his father is a doctor. He wants to win a championship for North Carolina and it would be good for the college game to have the player of the year return for another season. Your age argument is not a huge factor b/c Rookies sign three year deals with a team option for the fourth.

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