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Thread: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

  1. #1151
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket View Post
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    If we keep our current pick, I think there's a good chance we draft a big and then make a trade later in the summer for a PG.

    I could see Dunleavy's trade value being high enough now to make such a trade happen. Maybe Dun Dun for TJ Ford?
    That's actually not a bad idea.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    That's actually not a bad idea.
    Except for the fact that Fords medical condition (spine) is a serious one, & many out there question why w/ the jack he has made is risking his long-term health.
    Sure, the doc's have cleared him to play, that doesn't mean they think he is smart for doing so. 1 more blow to the head & TJ retires for sure. Trust me, I like TJ & would love to have him here, but I would not take a player who had the year MD has had this year & risk him like that. Tinsley + Ike, or Murphy - YES, but not Mike.
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket View Post
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    I'd add Randolph, Jordan and maybe Speights to that list as well.
    Randolph would duplicate a position the Pacers have plenty at already.
    Jordan is years away from contributing with no desire from what I read.
    Speights would be large reach at 11. Not really outstanding at anything.

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  4. #1154

    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    pacers have 0 business drafting for need. we must draft best player/potential available.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    We need a PG more than anything right now, though we could use improvements in many areas. We need to take the best PG available unless all of the ones worth taking that high get drafted too early.

  6. #1156
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    We need a PG more than anything right now, though we could use improvements in many areas. We need to take the best PG available unless all of the ones worth taking that high get drafted too early.
    For those advocating drafting a PG, do you think that it would be wise to draft one considering that we do not know what the status of Tinsley will be for the next season?

    The problem is that we do not know whether Tinsley would actually be traded or not. I know that we want to move him....but that's different then actually doing it since I consider the task to be rather daunting.

    On top of that....although I would reluctantly draft a PG like Collison or Augustine at the 11th spot ( only cuz I think that is too high for either players ), ignoring that any Tinsley trade is highly improbably given his low trade value, I just don't envision any trade in the offseason for Tinsley that won't ( A ) put us in a worse financial situation then we are in now ( like trading malcontents like SJax/Harrington for Dunleavy/Murphy that put us in Salarycap Heck ) or ( B ) get back players that we do not want on this roster.

    After going through 1/2 a season with Diener doing his best impression of being our Starting PG....I agree with you that we need a PG to play ahead of or next to Diener. Unfortunately, like it or not, the reality is that Tinsley will likely be on the roster in the upcoming season.

    Unless Collison or Augustine can come out of the gates and ACTUALLY OUTPLAY both Tinsley or Diener ( which seems highly unlikely ).....I simply don't see where we are going to have PG minutes for either of them unless we are content with playing them for 5-10 minutes a game.

    Does this mean that we don't have a need for a future PG? Nope...that issue still needs to be fixed.....but when we draft someone in the offseason....I really hope that we get someone that we will actually develop on a regular basis with consistent minutes. Getting a PG that will be stuck behind Tinsley and Diener isn't going to get the necessary minutes to properly develop.
    Last edited by CableKC; 04-13-2008 at 06:39 PM.
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  7. #1157

    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Midway through the season Tinsley will be injured as usual and you will have plenty of minutes for a rookie and Travis.

    I believe the Pacers have to make a move at PG in the offseason - either through a trade or through the draft. Considering both Tinsley and Diener are poor defenders and we play two SFs, I think we have to find a defensive PG this offseason. I'd like to see them go get Westbrook. IMO he fits the teams needs completly. I don't really like DJ or Collison because both will likely be defensive liabilities in the NBA.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    I don't know that we could even get a 3rd round pick for Tinsley.
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    There is no point drafting a PG if we're not pretty sure he will be the starter....which means we would need to draft Bayless or Rose IMO. We already have a couple solid backup PG's....which is probably the best the rest of the draft has to offer.

    So, I would hesitate to draft Augustin or Collison. If we go small, I would take the risk on Westbrook who might actually adapt to the position. Generally, I would go for another big and hope Tins can play another year of his contract out.

    It's a shame we don't have the #3 pick because I think we could get a franchise player out of it....

  10. #1160
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    For those advocating drafting a PG, do you think that it would be wise to draft one considering that we do not know what the status of Tinsley will be for the next season?

    The problem is that we do not know whether Tinsley would actually be traded or not. I know that we want to move him....but that's different then actually doing it since I consider the task to be rather daunting.

    On top of that....although I would reluctantly draft a PG like Collison or Augustine at the 11th spot ( only cuz I think that is too high for either players ), ignoring that any Tinsley trade is highly improbably given his low trade value, I just don't envision any trade in the offseason for Tinsley that won't ( A ) put us in a worse financial situation then we are in now ( like trading malcontents like SJax/Harrington for Dunleavy/Murphy that put us in Salarycap Heck ) or ( B ) get back players that we do not want on this roster.

    After going through 1/2 a season with Diener doing his best impression of being our Starting PG....I agree with you that we need a PG to play ahead of or next to Diener. Unfortunately, like it or not, the reality is that Tinsley will likely be on the roster in the upcoming season.

    Unless Collison or Augustine can come out of the gates and ACTUALLY OUTPLAY both Tinsley or Diener ( which seems highly unlikely ).....I simply don't see where we are going to have PG minutes for either of them unless we are content with playing them for 5-10 minutes a game.

    Does this mean that we don't have a need for a future PG? Nope...that issue still needs to be fixed.....but when we draft someone in the offseason....I really hope that we get someone that we will actually develop on a regular basis with consistent minutes. Getting a PG that will be stuck behind Tinsley and Diener isn't going to get the necessary minutes to properly develop.
    I think the last thing you want to do is avoid picking a PG out of concern for the Tinsley situation. Even if he stays, he will remain a health concern that you can't afford to hope stays healthy all season. Furthermore, having more talent at the 1 makes it easier to sit his *** down if he gives you any kind of grief. If he really makes a fuss you do what we did with Artest after he requested a trade: Tell him to stay away from the team and play Diener and the new kid in his absense. Not taking a PG keeps you over the barrel when Tinsley trouble arrises in one form or another. So IMO getting a new PG in the draft should be our top priority.

  11. #1161

    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Ideally, for me at least, you make your pick hoping that player can be a quality starter on a good playoff team at some point. It doesn't have to be immediate. You have to look long-term.

    But don't pick a guy that will start only because the team has a giant hole at a position. Don't pick a Raymond Felton, a Charlie Villanueva, a couple of OK players that got to start early on bad teams. Please, please, please don't aim for mediocrity.

    That's what scares me about the draft. I wouldn't draft a Collison at 11 because he's not a guy that can lead a team deep into the playoffs. I'm not sure Augustin is, either. But will Larry fool himself into thinking those players are?

    So if you can't find a point guard that can make a real impact, don't pick one. Look elsewhere. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking this team has only one hole.

  12. #1162
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Tinsley will be gone, I feel it in my bones.
    The draft however will depend on a few things.
    Mostly who's available in the draft, and who's availible on our team.

    I'm more intrigued by drafting a young defensive big man to develop, and trying to trade for a veteran PG if possible.

    Now if there's good point guard that you want on the board, of course you take him, but if not why not take a good young big man, or PERHAPS even draft for someone to entice a trade offer.

    I personally think teams out West whom just miss the playoffs, or those who are in and get early exits, will be teams to look to trade with.

    You can also look at those teams with multiple 1st round picks.

    I'm still thinking JO will be moved as well, along with a couple other players, so I think draft night will be quite interesting

  13. #1163

    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    One player I like, and no one talks about, is Earl Clark. I think he has a nice all around game and is a better prospect than CDR.

    With Mike and Shawne here there is no room for Earl.

    But it seems that when people talk about the wings of this draft they talk about Rush, CDR, Randolph, and Chase Budinger. I think that Clark could suprise people.

    Again, i'm not saying he is the guy for the Pacers. I just don't get why people seem to be sleeping on this kid.

    As of right now I kind of want the Pacers to trade this pick. I think I like Augistin the best but even with him I have some question marks.

  14. #1164
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraft View Post
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    That's what scares me about the draft. I wouldn't draft a Collison at 11 because he's not a guy that can lead a team deep into the playoffs. I'm not sure Augustin is, either. But will Larry fool himself into thinking those players are?

    So if you can't find a point guard that can make a real impact, don't pick one. Look elsewhere. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking this team has only one hole.
    Well the other way to look at what you are saying here is - Is anyone going to lead us deep into the playoffs at #11? I'm not so sure. Unless you are at the top of the draft, like top couple picks, the whole thing is a crapshoot. You get a Reggie Miller great, you get a Scott Haskin, well that happens too. So I think we just have to see what pans out.

    No matter who we pick at 11, I don't know that any of them are going to be so ready as to make an impact on the league and on the team as a rookie. It takes time.
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaufman View Post
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    Well the other way to look at what you are saying here is - Is anyone going to lead us deep into the playoffs at #11? I'm not so sure. Unless you are at the top of the draft, like top couple picks, the whole thing is a crapshoot. You get a Reggie Miller great, you get a Scott Haskin, well that happens too. So I think we just have to see what pans out.

    No matter who we pick at 11, I don't know that any of them are going to be so ready as to make an impact on the league and on the team as a rookie. It takes time.
    If we draft a point guard that can stop dribble penetration and shoot, he'll not only play, he'll make an impact, because we are so bad at that.

  16. #1166
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraft View Post
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    Ideally, for me at least, you make your pick hoping that player can be a quality starter on a good playoff team at some point. It doesn't have to be immediate. You have to look long-term.

    But don't pick a guy that will start only because the team has a giant hole at a position. Don't pick a Raymond Felton, a Charlie Villanueva, a couple of OK players that got to start early on bad teams. Please, please, please don't aim for mediocrity.

    That's what scares me about the draft. I wouldn't draft a Collison at 11 because he's not a guy that can lead a team deep into the playoffs. I'm not sure Augustin is, either. But will Larry fool himself into thinking those players are?

    So if you can't find a point guard that can make a real impact, don't pick one. Look elsewhere. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking this team has only one hole.
    I'm not expecting a future All-Star at the 11th pick......I'm just hoping that we can get a solid rotational player that can really help us in the near future.

    But I get the sense that Bird is the type of person that drafts the best player available as opposed to need...unless both can be had. Why else would he draft a SF like Shawne when we already had a future SF waiting in the wings in Granger?

    Since I'm of the belief that Tinsley won't be moved anytime soon and that we won't resign Rush, Flip and will trade away Marquis....I'm going to say that I hope we draft a player that can play SG or a Big Man ( specifically Love ) if a decent one is available.

    Who knows...maybe Bird will kill 2 birds with one stone and draft a Combo-Guard with potential like Westbrook
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  17. #1167

    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    I'm certainly not looking for an all-star. It'd be foolhardy to expect that.

    But I make sure the player I pick is one who can be a legitimate piece of good team. I think there's a lot of players in the league who are good individual players but will never be a contending player. And then there's just a ton of incomplete players that will always leave you wanting more. ... like a Fred Jones. There's a ton of Fred Jones-like potholes the Pacers could fall into.

    Just find someone that makes sense, and will continue to make sense six years down the road.

  18. #1168
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    I think the last thing you want to do is avoid picking a PG out of concern for the Tinsley situation. Even if he stays, he will remain a health concern that you can't afford to hope stays healthy all season. Furthermore, having more talent at the 1 makes it easier to sit his *** down if he gives you any kind of grief. If he really makes a fuss you do what we did with Artest after he requested a trade: Tell him to stay away from the team and play Diener and the new kid in his absense. Not taking a PG keeps you over the barrel when Tinsley trouble arrises in one form or another. So IMO getting a new PG in the draft should be our top priority.
    I agree what ever the status of Tinsley right now or the rest of his time with the Pacers, it shouldn't impact how you approach the off season. I don't see Tinsley as part of the team and thats how you have to approach it, I think.

    If he comes back, fine, if he's not a 1 on 5 disaster, fine, if he stays healthy, fine, its gravy. You can't count on any of those things. The first month of the season when he was lighting it up, I still thought his game was detrimental to good basketball.
    I'm not going to hijack the thread, I'm just saying in how you look at this team and how you are going to build it, you can't even consider Tinsley in the equation. He can't be counted on physically and he doesn't get it basketball wise, imo.
    Last edited by Speed; 04-14-2008 at 06:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Rose is in. Beasley will announce his decision today, I'd put everything I won on him entering as well. There are also credible sources reporting that Kevin Love is entering the draft and will sign with an agent.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Love is all but in and going very high.

    The move was cemented when UCLA coach Ben Howland told Love during a meeting last week on campus that NBA teams projected Love to be taken as high as fourth, and he was virtually guaranteed of being in the top 14 picks.
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    With all due respect to Stephen Jackson who is a good player, Granger is the better player...if some disagree fine...in a year or two it will be no contest. As for Al Harrington, he was not helping to lead this team anywhere. A highly paid backup he is.

    Yep, I like this team. I think as long as JO can stay on the floor and fits into the offensive scheme...that is where he is not the focal point...and plays strong D we will be in the playoffs next year.
    This was never the issue though, it's that Jackson as a more true SG defender made a better match with the strong 3pt shooting Danny. Without a doubt Mike is a better scorer, far more efficient due to his FG%. But it's Jackson that's consistantly had more assists.

    The more Danny comes on the more it proves out that adding an SF forced to act like a slow SG with weak SG defense was a mistake. I know we all love his scoring and I certainly wouldn't suggest Jack is a better shooter, but dang, wouldn't you rather see Jack/Danny defending the 2-3 spot and then perhaps Jackson deferring a bit to DG at the other end, and all for a million or two less?


    Anyway, that can't be undone. However as heretical as it sounds to some I'd move Dunleavy ASAP while he's coming off this great year and earning his deal. This team needs defensive improvement and I don't fully believe in him as the final SG answer.

    If you could move Mike for a #20 pick and get an Arthur or Thabeet I'd be happy to have Westbrook come be the new SG if he fell to that pick. Or Love and then perhaps Rush as the less athletic version of W'brook. You take a slight hit, but in the long run I think the team gets healthier in it's overall structure and financials.

  22. #1172
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Clark and T Smith. I think both are okay, but neither blow me away with next level talent or smarts. Contrast to the guys I just mentioned, W'brook and Rush. W'brook appears to have tons of NBA level ability and Rush has enough NBA level smarts mixed with talent to find his way into a solid role.

    Those guys are stronger than Taj Gibson, but by how much?



    Tinsley - I've already assumed he's gone. I'm not rebuilding instantly for next year. As I've said, I don't think they make the playoffs next year. I'm building for the year after that.

    I move Tins for equal contract space and expiring as soon as or sooner. I'd prefer two cheaper deals that are easier to repackage actually.

    And as I just said I'd also move Dun. Ultimately my vision of the team features Danny, Foster till he retires, probably JO till his deal ends or during it's final year, and then the kids you add this and next year.

    That's the team I want to see them try to win with. So I draft and trade in order to fill ALL those spots, not just PG for next year as if that's all it's going to take.


    This is why I don't draft W'brook to "learn" PG. He doesn't have the vision, doesn't have that PG sense, and just is a huge risk away from SG/combo status I think. There you are counting on that HR attempt at a PG solution and you haven't solved any other issues. However I do take him if you are moving Dunleavy.

    That would mean that technically I'm passing over the PG spot with that pick. But then if Mike gets you Chalmers at say 22 or so then you just turned Tins/Mike into Chalmers/Westbrook and they fit much more naturally with what Granger does. Both those guys would work off Danny better than Dun because in many ways Dun is a duplicate of Danny on offense.

    I mean for all his faciliating of offense Mike's assists aren't exactly through the roof. I don't see Westbrook as a PG, but I do think he could see 3-5 assists from the SG/combo to match Mike's output. The defensive improvement would be drastic.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 04-14-2008 at 10:33 AM.

  23. #1173
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    I do not see the Pacers blowing up the current roster. We will draft the best player available. Larry Bird will not take EJ at 11 just because he is from Indiana; he will take him if he thinks he is the best player available. I have no idea what will happen in the draft till we know the exact order. This is a very interesting draft b/c some decent players might slip to us in the second round ie DJ White, Lester Hudson, Tyler Smith, we also might see a Chris Lofton/ Mike Green/ Jaycee Carroll not get drafted and work his way onto our summer league team.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    I do not see the Pacers blowing up the current roster. We will draft the best player available. Larry Bird will not take EJ at 11 just because he is from Indiana; he will take him if he thinks he is the best player available. I have no idea what will happen in the draft till we know the exact order. This is a very interesting draft b/c some decent players might slip to us in the second round ie DJ White, Lester Hudson, Tyler Smith, we also might see a Chris Lofton/ Mike Green/ Jaycee Carroll not get drafted and work his way onto our summer league team.
    No "Blow-up" but there will be changes. I know there has been talk about building around Dun & Granger from LB, but Dun had have earned enough value that we might make a move w/ him if we can. If we did, I could see (hope) for a C.Lee in rd. 2.
    Lets just pray for a Top 3 pick!!!
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    I am just not in the mindset of drafing a PG at 11 because we need a PG. We have several holes in our roster. Lack of perimeter defense, dribble penetration, and toughness. I feel if you can go out and acquire a decent FA at PG we are better off for the future than taking DJ Augustine because he is the popular choice. What if Batum, Randolph, & Speights all turn into 20/10 guys and Augustine turns out to be a bust?

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