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Thread: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

  1. #1001
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    I would love to have Speights on this team

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ownagedood View Post
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    Ya, all the amazing things that people talk about and how important JO is on defense, well, that's what Thabeet is.. And it's not like you can't teach someone post moves or how to shoot better.. He's absolutely worth our pick.
    I agree with you on Lester Hudson but your too high on Thabeet. I think the Pacers will go with Jordan of A&M over both Thabeet and Hibbert. The reason is very simple Jordan could turn into Andrew Bynum and he will have time to slowly progress with our organization as long as we keep Jermaine O'neal. I do not know about Jordan's work ethic and have only seem him play once against UCLA (not too good of a game) but he has more promise than both Hibbert and Thabeet and the Eastern Conference is weak at the C position.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    I agree with you on Lester Hudson but your too high on Thabeet. I think the Pacers will go with Jordan of A&M over both Thabeet and Hibbert. The reason is very simple Jordan could turn into Andrew Bynum and he will have time to slowly progress with our organization as long as we keep Jermaine O'neal. I do not know about Jordan's work ethic and have only seem him play once against UCLA (not too good of a game) but he has more promise than both Hibbert and Thabeet and the Eastern Conference is weak at the C position.
    I completely understand the potential that guys like Thabeet, McGee, and Jordan have. If we really want to draft one of these guys, however, we need to realize what we're getting. With any of these three, you're not getting a guy who will see the court next year, especially if our current front court stays in tact. David Harrison and Ike Diogu will both be better players than any of these three guys for at least the next year, probably two or three. When these guys do see the court, you'll likely only get a couple rebounds, blocks, and putbacks out of them and you'll see a ton of mistakes. They may be good in the future, but adding a project player will not make this team at all better next season.
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    I completely understand the potential that guys like Thabeet, McGee, and Jordan have. If we really want to draft one of these guys, however, we need to realize what we're getting. With any of these three, you're not getting a guy who will see the court next year, especially if our current front court stays in tact. David Harrison and Ike Diogu will both be better players than any of these three guys for at least the next year, probably two or three. When these guys do see the court, you'll likely only get a couple rebounds, blocks, and putbacks out of them and you'll see a ton of mistakes. They may be good in the future, but adding a project player will not make this team at all better next season.
    David Harrison is gone after this season. It will be interesting to see what else happens with our roster ie do we trade Q6, Jeff Foster, Tinsley or IKE? What will we get in return? Drafting a big man is a crap shoot and it takes patience. Are they going to be Scott Haskin/Bryant Reeves/Luther Wright or Rik Smits? Keep in mind Spencer Hawes was the 10th pick last year. What this teams need is better defense so do we take Thabeet b/c he is the most potent shot blocker out of the bunch? If we miss Jordan and he turns into Bynum we made the wrong decision.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraft View Post
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    I love that all these kids are declaring. It's wonderful. Save the shallow draft pools for when the Pacers don't suck anymore.
    Hear hear!

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ownagedood View Post
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    Ya, all the amazing things that people talk about and how important JO is on defense, well, that's what Thabeet is.. And it's not like you can't teach someone post moves or how to shoot better.. He's absolutely worth our pick.
    What players in the NBA today started out with no post game... and added a good one. Or couldn't shoot at all.... but became a good shooter.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    speights is an absolute steal for anyone that takes him around picks 15-20. if he waited another year he would have been a top 10 pick. I saw him tear up my Vols this year, he went like 10-10 from the field, and hes a 6-10 powerforward. Looked alot like horford did the past few years

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    I was talking to shade about this yesterday. The thing that worries me about these guys that come from Africa is that this is essentially thier meal ticket. HOw much do they really want to work at their game? Thabeet scares me for that reason becuase he also shows a lack of fight in his game. Getting pushed out of the post is not what I want in my center.

    Of course he and Mcgee seem to care more than JOrdan. Physically Jordan is the most NBA ready but his heart is not NBA ready. Mcgee is the least physically ready but shows the most promise of them all.

    I would rather have McGee if a quality ie. starting point guard is not available. Thabeet is my next choice and Jordan is after that.

  9. #1009

    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    I also love how Thabeet is not on Draftnets mock draft... Does someone know if he is declaring or not.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I was talking to shade about this yesterday. The thing that worries me about these guys that come from Africa is that this is essentially thier meal ticket. HOw much do they really want to work at their game? Thabeet scares me for that reason becuase he also shows a lack of fight in his game. Getting pushed out of the post is not what I want in my center.

    Of course he and Mcgee seem to care more than JOrdan. Physically Jordan is the most NBA ready but his heart is not NBA ready. Mcgee is the least physically ready but shows the most promise of them all.

    I would rather have McGee if a quality ie. starting point guard is not available. Thabeet is my next choice and Jordan is after that.
    Pretty fair assesment of the big guys. Of the three I want the one with the greatest desire.
    That is the hardest part to determine, plus the big the Pacers pick will have a career
    ending injury shortly after joining the Pacers. So using reverse pyschology whoever is your first choice pick your second choice. No wait maybe that means the second choice will
    break down. Ahh...nevermind. Somebody just roll some dice. :-)
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    What players in the NBA today started out with no post game... and added a good one. Or couldn't shoot at all.... but became a good shooter.
    All players adapted.. I am willing to bet that JO didn't start out with a good post game.. Coming right out of high school.. But then he came over here and developed very nicely. And we all know that people get better at shooting.. Or at least everyone with a brain.. If you practice hard enough at it, both of those can greatly be improved.. Look at Bird, he was an amazing shooter, you aren't just born nailing shots all over the place, you practice so much and so hard that it just comes to you.

    Another example of a post player that developed good post skills when he became pro was Andrew Bynum.. He worked hard at it every day.. I think he was trained by Abdul-Jabbar.
    Last edited by Ownagedood; 04-09-2008 at 11:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I also love how Thabeet is not on Draftnets mock draft... Does someone know if he is declaring or not.
    Ya, they took him off yesterday.. Not sure if they got word that he wanted to stay at Uconn or not.. But he was listed at #17.

  13. #1013

    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    David Harrison is gone after this season. It will be interesting to see what else happens with our roster ie do we trade Q6, Jeff Foster, Tinsley or IKE? What will we get in return? Drafting a big man is a crap shoot and it takes patience. Are they going to be Scott Haskin/Bryant Reeves/Luther Wright or Rik Smits? Keep in mind Spencer Hawes was the 10th pick last year. What this teams need is better defense so do we take Thabeet b/c he is the most potent shot blocker out of the bunch? If we miss Jordan and he turns into Bynum we made the wrong decision.

    As far as I know Bynum never shied away from contact right. Looking down the road I want the guy who likes to play hard not soft. Jordan comes off soft. LIke the guys in the gym who likes the fast breaks becuase it looks cool. Unfortunately I don't think you can train a guy to play with a nasty streak. Well unless you want to give him a heart transplant.

    Also with Jordan its not like he can't dominate the post and push people around. I could use that agrument for McGee/thabeet but not Jordan.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    David Harrison is gone after this season. It will be interesting to see what else happens with our roster ie do we trade Q6, Jeff Foster, Tinsley or IKE? What will we get in return? Drafting a big man is a crap shoot and it takes patience. Are they going to be Scott Haskin/Bryant Reeves/Luther Wright or Rik Smits? Keep in mind Spencer Hawes was the 10th pick last year. What this teams need is better defense so do we take Thabeet b/c he is the most potent shot blocker out of the bunch? If we miss Jordan and he turns into Bynum we made the wrong decision.
    Ya, but Jordan is a HUGE gamble.. And with the team we have right now, gambling with our best pick on a guy that just doesn't seem to care, would be a horrible choice. He's a project and quite frankly, a project that doesn't seem to care enough about the game to ever be a dominate player.. He might, but it's a gamble that I personally think we shouldn't try. Go with odds and pick a guy that you know will play hard. My favorite guy that may be around is probably Westbrook. We desperately need a pg, especially one that plays defense, and this kid plays great defense, as well as is a smart offensive player.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    I like Arthur and Speights for this team. I love Love but not for this team and its current players.

    I like Westbrook, Chalmers, and Lee.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Thank god. As long as it's not to us. Hopefully he can push down a Kevin Love-type to us.

    Ok, I just totally clowned on Thabeet...but I'm wondering whether having Thabeet wouldn't allow us to use Diogu or Shawne at the 4. Both of those guys certainly can score so getting a defender-only wouldn't necessarily be a problem. Basically Thabeet would be doing what JO should be doing.
    This is why I would take Thabeet. The Pacers are desperate for defense. So Thabeet or
    Mcgee would be fine with me and I think they would contribute AT LEAST as much
    as Harrison immediately. Plus if JO is here still I could see that helping both dramatically.
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    What players in the NBA today started out with no post game... and added a good one. Or couldn't shoot at all.... but became a good shooter.
    Eric Snow went from being an abominable shooter to OK (not good).

    But the real eye-opener was Ewing. He was gonna be a defensive stopper and rebounder but wasn't projected to be much of an offensive force. He turned himself into a dominant post player and one of the best jump-shooting centers in the league. I don't know if I'd exactly say he developed all that because he shocked everyone by scoring 20 ppg his rookie year but he sure wasn't projected to be able to be the player on that side of the ball that he was. IIRC, at Georgetown he had some post game (though it was mostly being taller and stronger) but not much of a shot.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    I think the shooting thing happens all the time if a guy puts in the work he can at least be average. Jason Kidd, who has since reverted to horrible, but when he first came in guys wouldn't guard him outside of 15 feet, then in his prime he could hit the three, not consistently, but some.

    Tinsley isn't a good shooter, but enough you have to kinda guard him, he was atrocious when he came in. There's a ton of examples on that one. Watch Rondo, I bet even with his horrible shot he becomes serviceable eventually. Fred Jones, I'm not saying these guys are Kapono, but they do develop enough that you have to guard them.

    Post moves, maybe, its such a loss art and its hard to be a career banger in the low post without getting beat up and your body wearing down eventually.

  19. #1019

    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    This is why I would take Thabeet. The Pacers are desperate for defense. So Thabeet or
    Mcgee would be fine with me and I think they would contribute AT LEAST as much
    as Harrison immediately. Plus if JO is here still I could see that helping both dramatically.
    What do you think of Speights if you want heart and defense. He fits the mold of athletic and the ability to be a center/pf which we love to play. He is already strong and NBA ready.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    My idea draft day. I hope/wish we package Tinsley and our current pick (outside of lotto) for a player and three future draft picks two first rounds and one second round. We trade down and take a Arthur (Kansas) or Courtney Lee in the late first round. Then we acquire a Joey Dorsey/DJ White in the early second round. All players are upper classman and ready to help.
    This would be great b/c everybody knows what Dorsey/White will provide for a team. We should have no problem making the playoffs with these upgrades and we also have wiggle room trade deadline time.

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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    This is why I would take Thabeet. The Pacers are desperate for defense. So Thabeet or
    Mcgee would be fine with me and I think they would contribute AT LEAST as much
    as Harrison immediately. Plus if JO is here still I could see that helping both dramatically.
    Here are some stats:

    David Harrison's Junior Year:
    31.6 mpg, 17.1 pts, 8.8 rebs, 2.9 blks, 63% FG

    Javale McGee:
    27.3 mpg, 14.1 pts, 7.3 rebs, 2.8 blks, 53% FG

    DeAndre Jordan:
    20.1 mpg, 7.9 pts, 6.0 rebs, 1.3 blks, 62% FG

    Hasheem Thabeet:
    31 mpg, 10.5 pts, 7.9 rebs, 4.5 blks, 60% FG

    Statistically speaking, all of these guys were not as effective in college as Harrison was. I know that he never had their upside, but upside in this case simply means that they're all more athletic, none of them are more skilled than David was.

    Here are David's stats from his rookie year (which, sadly, was his best statistical season:

    43 games, 17.7 min, 6.1 pts, 3.1 rebs, 1.3 blks, 57% FG

    I very highly doubt any of these young centers put up any better numbers than that next season.

    Again, I'm not saying don't draft these guys, I'm just saying don't expect us to be a better team next season with any of these guys on the roster.
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    What do you think of Speights if you want heart and defense. He fits the mold of athletic and the ability to be a center/pf which we love to play. He is already strong and NBA ready.
    Do you agree then w/ Isiah about the days of the true big man becoming extinct in today's game. Eddie Curry is a dinosaur ....

  23. #1023

    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Eddy Curry is a really bad example but I understand your point. Certianly Yoa and Bynum are good examples that their not. As of right now the rules favor guard penetration and if a center is going to succeed he had better be smart and laterally quick.
    I think its hard to find both of those. In our case we need a guy who can stay with his man in the paint but also provide weak side help.

    I wouldn't agree with anything Isiah says.

  24. #1024
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    My idea draft day. I hope/wish we package Tinsley and our current pick (outside of lotto) for a player and three future draft picks two first rounds and one second round. We trade down and take a Arthur (Kansas) or Courtney Lee in the late first round. Then we acquire a Joey Dorsey/DJ White in the early second round. All players are upper classman and ready to help.
    This would be great b/c everybody knows what Dorsey/White will provide for a team. We should have no problem making the playoffs with these upgrades and we also have wiggle room trade deadline time.
    So who would be our point guard? If we don't draft a pg this draft (Augustin, Chalmers, Westbrook) I'll be pissed. It's been too long since we've drafted one and to trade tinsley would leave us with a waiver player (murray) at point

  25. #1025
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    Default Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    Here are some stats:

    David Harrison's Junior Year:
    31.6 mpg, 17.1 pts, 8.8 rebs, 2.9 blks, 63% FG

    Javale McGee:
    27.3 mpg, 14.1 pts, 7.3 rebs, 2.8 blks, 53% FG

    DeAndre Jordan:
    20.1 mpg, 7.9 pts, 6.0 rebs, 1.3 blks, 62% FG

    Hasheem Thabeet:
    31 mpg, 10.5 pts, 7.9 rebs, 4.5 blks, 60% FG

    Statistically speaking, all of these guys were not as effective in college as Harrison was. I know that he never had their upside, but upside in this case simply means that they're all more athletic, none of them are more skilled than David was.

    Here are David's stats from his rookie year (which, sadly, was his best statistical season:

    43 games, 17.7 min, 6.1 pts, 3.1 rebs, 1.3 blks, 57% FG

    I very highly doubt any of these young centers put up any better numbers than that next season.

    Again, I'm not saying don't draft these guys, I'm just saying don't expect us to be a better team next season with any of these guys on the roster.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I am making two assumptions when I say they can contribute as much as Harrison.
    Number one, they are mentally stable and drug free.
    Number two, they are not injured a good portion of their first 3 years.
    David has been a huge disappointment considering the physical gifts he has,
    but he has limitations also in that he has short arms and that is one of the reasons he fouls
    a lot. He can't keep his body off the other player. You may be right about not contributing
    much but the Pacers need to look past the end of their nose.
    With that said I hope David can get himself together for his own benefit, regardless of
    basketball.

    I would take Mcgee or Thabeet but I would be very leary of Jordan
    Last edited by owl; 04-09-2008 at 12:53 PM.
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