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Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

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  • #76
    Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

    Syracuse and G-Town playing on ESPN right now...Donte Green playing decent early. He has a smooth looking jumper for a 6-11 player. Just nailed a beautiful contested three..
    Roy Hibbert.... It's the POWER!!!

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

      Greene looks to be something special. Probably somewhere between Charlie Villanueva and Kevin Durant. Like I said earlier, he could make a nice replacement for J.O.

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

        ESpecially in JOB's fast paced offense
        Roy Hibbert.... It's the POWER!!!

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

          I don't know as much about College Basketball as you guys....so I wanted to get your thoughts on these Big Men that appear to be within our range in the Lottery ( some talked about already ):

          Jason Thompson - Currently 14th pick in NBADraft.net

          Roy Hibbert - Currently 13th pick in NBADraft.net

          Hasheem Thabeet - Currently 11th pick in NBADraft.net

          Given our current love of Small Ball....which I hope goes away soon....it seems that we would need a solid Defensive Big Man that can block shots, run the floor really well and rebound. It seems that these guys can do these things....some more effective on the offensive end...and some more on the defensive end.

          Also, as Seth has alluded to....it seems that players that come out of top notch programs ( like Kansas ) seem to have better fundamentals. It would seem that they would be better fits for the NBA. Does that factor into how you would rate certain players?
          Last edited by CableKC; 01-21-2008, 10:16 PM.
          Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

            Don't know so much on Thompson.

            Hibbert- Solid fundamentals, smart player who is good at hitting cutters from the high-post. I've always said he looks a little slow and doesn't seem to get really fired up. Kind of soft, doesn't play that physical of defense in college which translates to "you will get your butt dunked on" in the NBA. Should be a better rebounder than what he is too...

            Thabeet- Not much of an offensive game to speak of, if he did he would be going much higher in the draft as he is pretty athletic and has very good shot blocking instincts. At 7'3 he could be a defensive anchor if he added some weight. As of now he would be a great weak-side shot blocker, like a Marcus Camby type with more length. Still really raw though IMO. Could definitely be out-muscled by anyone in the NBA at his position.
            Roy Hibbert.... It's the POWER!!!

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

              I have said it before but I am just not a fan of Hibbert. I shouldn't say that. I don't think he will be big time NBA player. Maybe a good backup but no centerpiece. Not someone I would want the Pacers to draft unless they had a late first round pick.

              In the NBA now you see more of guys like Boris Diaw and Al Harrington playing center. It seems that is where the game is going. Small ball. You need quickness. And if we plan on sticking with Jim O'Brien's philosophy for any length of time we need quickness, that is not Hibbert.

              What I like about Roy is that he does play to his strengths. Very complete player especially on offense. Nice touch and good free throw shooter. Can pass the ball which you don't see from big men especially low post ones. He rebounds well and has no character issues that I know of. His lack of quickness and speed hurts him on defense though. That will be tough for him to overcome in the NBA especially if he is playing for the Pacers who want to run.

              Thabeet is the ultimate high risk high reward. Great physical tools. I don't care what he does on offense if he can turn into a dominate defender and rebounder he is the center I would want for the Pacers. But you know it's a long shot he turns out that well.

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                Originally posted by rommie View Post
                I have said it before but I am just not a fan of Hibbert. I shouldn't say that. I don't think he will be big time NBA player. Maybe a good backup but no centerpiece. Not someone I would want the Pacers to draft unless they had a late first round pick.

                In the NBA now you see more of guys like Boris Diaw and Al Harrington playing center. It seems that is where the game is going. Small ball. You need quickness. And if we plan on sticking with Jim O'Brien's philosophy for any length of time we need quickness, that is not Hibbert.

                What I like about Roy is that he does play to his strengths. Very complete player especially on offense. Nice touch and good free throw shooter. Can pass the ball which you don't see from big men especially low post ones. He rebounds well and has no character issues that I know of. His lack of quickness and speed hurts him on defense though. That will be tough for him to overcome in the NBA especially if he is playing for the Pacers who want to run.

                Thabeet is the ultimate high risk high reward. Great physical tools. I don't care what he does on offense if he can turn into a dominate defender and rebounder he is the center I would want for the Pacers. But you know it's a long shot he turns out that well.
                The question for Small Ball becomes what you want from your players. With the high volume of shots that this offense generates, is it a requirement that all 5 of our players be capable scorers?

                I would hope that the answer is maybe....but IMHO not a requirement. Rebounding and defense is as paramount if not a greater requirement. From what I have seen of Small Ball and even before we went to Small Ball is that we take a lot of quick shots where we miss and then have to quickly run back on defense. A Big Man that can keep up with this offense so that we can get that extra rebound and 2nd shot would be helpful.

                What I want from the draft is what I wish JONeal is now ( or what he was 2-3 seasons ago ).....a Big Man that can rebound, defend the paint, block shots, run very well ( A MUST ) and can efficiently score in the Low-Post on the 8-10 FGA that he gets.

                It sounds like Roy Hibbert can do all that EXCEPT for having the necessary foot speed to keep up in this offense/defense.

                From what I have been reading....I wouldn't mind having a player like Thabeet. It sounds like he's a rebounding/defensive Monster that can run but more raw on the offensive end.
                Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                  Originally posted by rommie View Post
                  I have said it before but I am just not a fan of Hibbert. I shouldn't say that. I don't think he will be big time NBA player. Maybe a good backup but no centerpiece. Not someone I would want the Pacers to draft unless they had a late first round pick.

                  What I like about Roy is that he does play to his strengths. Very complete player especially on offense. Nice touch and good free throw shooter. Can pass the ball which you don't see from big men especially low post ones. He rebounds well and has no character issues that I know of. His lack of quickness and speed hurts him on defense though. That will be tough for him to overcome in the NBA especially if he is playing for the Pacers who want to run.

                  Thabeet is the ultimate high risk high reward. Great physical tools. I don't care what he does on offense if he can turn into a dominate defender and rebounder he is the center I would want for the Pacers. But you know it's a long shot he turns out that well.
                  EDIT on that Rommie. Hibbert is shooting free-throws at a 60% clip this year and his career average is in the mid 60's as well. He DOES have nice touch around the glass though with POTENTIAL (key word here) to extend that to 14-16 feet. He isn't a physical player for his size though (7'2" 275 lbs.), and can sometimes fade into the background on defense. When you are that big in college, you need to control the paint and he doesn't do that very well. Add that up with not being very quick and he isn't a good pick for our team at all.

                  If we chose to go big with our pick I would like to get someone like Donte Green (6'11 226 lbs., a little small but will put on weight and resemble a better shooting, quicker young JO) or DeAndre Jordan (7'0 240lbs.) who is extremely athletic but lacks some IQ at this point i think. Jordan would be a pure "on potential" pick because he could really be something special with his athleticism and bulking him up to about 260. Green is the better choice in this though, because of his outside shooting ability (leads syracuse in 3PM).
                  Last edited by jmoney2584; 01-22-2008, 12:41 AM.
                  Roy Hibbert.... It's the POWER!!!

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                    Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                    Roy Hibbert - Currently 13th pick in NBADraft.net

                    Hasheem Thabeet - Currently 11th pick in NBADraft.net
                    I only got to see bits of the G'town/UConn game last week or so. Tonight I watched the first half closely just to watch those two play.

                    Hibbert - He's got the size and length, but he moves physically like he's extremely tentative or passive. He made a very physical block coming from the high post, but that almost seemed out of place. He wasn't fighting for the low block and he didn't show any NBA quality post moves.

                    I like 4 year guys and he comes off like a quality person, but right now I'm not liking him with a pick that high.

                    Thabeet - now he had less impact overall and got lots of double help the few times Hibbert did get posted, but he showed more confidence in his physical presence. One of his few impact plays was to slip off Hibbert on a guard drive and get the big swat. And oh by the way Hibbert failed to fade off him and make himself available for the pass which would have saved the play.

                    Thabeet comes off as raw but not really awkward. Hibbert will work the post for you a little, but not as a main threat. I'm not sure he could be equal to a calm David Harrison. Thabeet is perhaps more like a Tony Davis in the making, but then Antonio ended up in Europe before joining the Pacers. He might be an undersized C or a PF with an emphasis on the power (rebounds, defense, explosiveness). He's not that yet and might never reach that.

                    If both are on the board I think I go with Thabeet right now.


                    edit - Thabeet is taller than Hibbert? Sure didn't look it to me, thus my "undersized C" comment. He looked all PF.
                    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-22-2008, 12:46 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                      I prefer Thabeet over Hibbert. He's a little bigger (taller/longer), and far more mobile/athletic.

                      Thabeet is looking better offensively this season. His points per game has risen 10.5, still not a lot, but over 40% better than last years 6.2. And even better, his free throw shooting has really improved - from 51% to 70%. He's clearly worked on it a lot, showing he has a nice work ethic. There are some guards in the NBA that can't hit 70% from the lines. He's still not exactly Wilt Chamberlain, but you can clearly see signs of an offensive game. I'd take him, then hire Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to teach him the same things he taught Andrew Bynum. And even if he never amounts to much offensively, he's still a defensive anchor for the next decade.

                      Worst Case - bigger Adonal Foyle
                      Best Case - Dikembe Mutombo
                      Last edited by Kofi; 01-22-2008, 12:55 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                        Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                        edit - Thabeet is taller than Hibbert? Sure didn't look it to me, thus my "undersized C" comment. He looked all PF.
                        Both of them are legit 7 footers.....both of which are listed as 7 foot 2 ( Hibbert ) and 7 foot 3 ( Thabeet ).
                        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                          Originally posted by Kofi View Post
                          I prefer Thabeet over Hibbert. He's a little bigger (taller/longer), and far more mobile/athletic.

                          Thabeet is looking better offensively this season. His points per game has risen 10.5, still not a lot, but over 40% better than last years 6.2. And even better, his free throw shooting has really improved - from 51% to 70%. He's clearly worked on it a lot, showing he has a nice work ethic. There are some guards in the NBA that can't hit 70% from the lines. He's still not exactly Wilt Chamberlain, but you can clearly see signs of an offensive game. I'd take him, then hire Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to teach him the same things he taught Andrew Bynum. And even if he never amounts to much offensively, he's still a defensive anchor for the next decade.

                          Worst Case - bigger Adonal Foyle
                          Best Case - Dikembe Mutombo
                          If we can't get within sniffing distance of a top 5 pick....which is unlikely.....it looks like decent Big Men are the type of players that will probably fall to us.

                          I would be okay with your worst and best case scenarios. Thabeet would be my pick as well.

                          Is the level of competition and the conference that he plays in is a good guage of how well he plays?
                          Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                            http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...2=stateChanged

                            Draft Watch: First round could have record number of freshmen


                            By Chad Ford
                            ESPN.com
                            Updated: January 23, 2008
                            • Last season's freshman class was one of the most heralded groups in college basketball history. And with reason. In the 2007 NBA draft, the top two picks were freshmen and a total of six freshmen were drafted in the lottery. Overall, eight freshmen went in the first round. On top of that, a handful of other freshmen, including Chase Budinger, Brook Lopez, Darrell Arthur, D.J. Augustin and Ty Lawson would've been first-round picks if they declared for the draft.
                            Clearly the NBA's new age restriction is impacting the demographics of the draft. But last season's class was special and everyone knew that going into the season.

                            Everyone knew this season's freshman class would be special, too. However, I'm not sure anyone was ready to predict that this class could produce more first-rounders than last season's class. But it's a possibility now.

                            Since July 1, we've been frequently talking about five freshmen -- Kansas State's Michael Beasley, Memphis' Derrick Rose, Indiana's Eric Gordon, Texas A&M's DeAndre Jordan and USC's O.J. Mayo -- as being the top five overall prospects in the draft. But that's just skimming the surface with this class. A plethora of other freshmen could crack the lottery and first round in this year's draft and shatter last year's record.

                            After talking with numerous NBA scouts and executives, here's a look at the other freshmen who could make some noise come June.

                            Potential lottery picks



                            Donte Greene, F, Syracuse
                            At this point, Greene looks poised to make it six out of six freshmen at the start of the first round. He's drawing some comparisons to Marvin Williams and Rudy Gay with his size, athleticism and ability to shoot. But the truth is, as a freshman, he's already having a more productive season than either Williams or Gay had in college.
                            Just as importantly, he's also becoming a leader on the team, demanding the ball in crucial situations and delivering for Syracuse down the stretch. He's not quite the talent that Carmelo Anthony was for the Orange, but he's pretty darn good.
                            We've been steadily moving him up the draft board and he took a big leap in our last rankings, moving all the way up to No. 6 on our latest big board.


                            Jerryd Bayless, G, Arizona
                            Everyone knew coming into the season that Bayless' offensive abilities and athleticism made him an excellent prospect. The questions were about his size and position. In high school he was a shoot-first 2-guard, but at 6-foot-3 (and that may be generous) he's undersized to play the 2 in the NBA.
                            Bayless has been playing the point for Arizona this season with mixed results. He's definitely shown that he can be a big-time scorer -- often stealing the spotlight from Budinger, who is a lottery prospect. He can kill you from long range, midrange, in drives to the basket and at the free-throw line. Bayless, however, has struggled while running the point. He's been turnover prone and struggles to break down defenses in ways other than taking it to the basket for a score. His assist-to-turnover ratio hasn't been great, and at times he has failed to be a leader on the floor.
                            But scouts have seen enough to believe that he can be a combo guard in the pros. His combination of elite athleticism, shooting ability and quickness makes him an excellent NBA prospect -- one scout compared him to Monta Ellis with a better shot and higher basketball IQ. Another to Gilbert Arenas.
                            A straw poll of executives found that most had him in the late lottery, which means we've had him ranked a little too low for the past few months. He's moved up on our board.


                            Kevin Love, C, UCLA
                            We're cheating a bit on Love. Everyone knows who he is and he certainly hasn't lacked the spotlight as UCLA's starting center. However, there continue to be questions about his NBA abilities.
                            On one hand, he's got the power and basketball IQ to be a great NBA player. He is an amazing passer and has well-developed moves in the paint for a big guy.
                            On the other hand, he is very undersized to play center in the NBA and even lacks good size to play the 4 in the pros. He's also had a history of knee problems and weight issues and struggles against long, athletic players.
                            Scouts continue to have mixed views on him. A handful have him as a top 10 pick, while some have him in the 20s. We've been compromising somewhere in the middle until scouts can answer this question convincingly: What's the difference between Love and UNC's Tyler Hansbrough -- a guy most NBA scouts have ranked as a bubble first-rounder?
                            The answer has been that Love is bulkier and a smarter player than UNC's standout big man. But does he really possess those attributes to a significantly greater degree than Hansbrough?


                            Kosta Koufos, C, Ohio State
                            Koufos came into the season looking like a lock for the top 10 and a possible top 5 pick. Of all the heralded freshmen, he's been the most disappointing. Although his overall numbers are very solid for a freshman, Koufos has come up seriously lacking against major opponents like North Carolina, Michigan State, Illinois and Iowa.
                            His excellent play for the Greek National team this past summer seems to have carried over only so far. Don't get me wrong, scouts still think Koufos is a terrific prospect with great size, basketball IQ and the ability to stretch the defense with a silky-smooth jumper. But his inconsistency against college big men, lack of rebounding and so-so shot-blocking numbers all have scouts saying he may need to wait another year if he really wants to strike gold in the upper half of the lottery. If he were to declare now, scouts believe he'd go somewhere between the late lottery and mid-first round.

                            First-round locks



                            J. J. Hickson, F, North Carolina State
                            Hickson is an athletic big man with an NBA frame and the ability to score from 15 feet and in. He's shown good ability as a shot-blocker and a rebounder and has been shooting with extreme efficiency from the field.
                            Although scouts say he's raw and could use another year in school, the combination of length, athleticism and efficency is usually a potent one come draft time. His stock is harder to judge because of his rawness, but most scouts have him going somewhere in the mid-first round.


                            Bill Walker, G/F, Kansas State
                            After putting Walker on the "Who's Not" list at the end of December, he's exploded, averaging 22.5 ppg over his last five games. Walker's explosiveness is beginning to return and he's showing off a new and improved jump shot. Over his last five games he's hit 13 3s and is shooting 48 percent from beyond the arc.
                            The combination of Walker's elite athleticism and his improved shooting touch tantalizes every scout. The comparisons to Vince Carter are realistic and Walker is beginning to show again why scouts had him ranked as a top 5 prospect in the draft before his ACL surgery last year.
                            If Walker can continue to produce at this level and find a way to share the ball with Beasley, he has a chance to shoot way up the boards. Questions about the long-term health of his knee may keep him out of the lottery, but Walker is looking more and more like a guy who could have his name called in the teens.


                            Andrew Ogilvy, C, Vanderbilt
                            The big man from Australia has been one of the steadiest freshmen in college basketball. He's a throwback player with excellent fundamentals on the offensive end and a wide body that allows him to hold his position on the post. He's very tough, has soft hands and is even deadly from the free-throw line -- how often do you hear that about a center?
                            His serious lack of athleticism and quickness and questions about his size and rebounding ability keep him from being an elite prospect -- but there are scouts who see a little Brad Miller in him.
                            Given the love affair NBA teams have with centers, it looks like Ogilvy would be a lock for the first round if he enters. Whether he can rise higher probably depends on two key workout measurements -- standing reach and athletic ability.


                            Davon Jefferson, F, USC
                            Jefferson has been on the NBA radar screen for years and after a long wait he's finally at USC and living up to his billing as an athletic forward who could be a game changer in the NBA.
                            Physically, he has it all: great size, length, a maturing NBA body and elite athleticism both in terms of jumping ability and overall quickness and speed.
                            Skillwise, Jefferson has a long way to go. He gets most of his points running the floor, slamming home an alley-oop or crashing the offensive boards. He has no 3-point range and just so-so shooting ability from midrange. His ballhandling skills are a problem and he seems to lack great basketball IQ.
                            Even his upside is tempered by the fact that he's a 21-year-old freshman who failed to qualify academically for college the past two seasons.
                            Still, Jefferson's raw abilities don't come along very often and he's putting up excellent numbers. That's probably enough to guarantee him a late first-round selection. I spoke with sources close to Jefferson who claim he's leaning strongly to declaring for the draft this year because of his age. It's probably a smart move from a draft stock perspective, though most GMs feel he definitely could use one more year of school.

                            First-round bubble

                            There's another group of talented freshmen who aren't seen as quite yet ready for the NBA. However, scouts believe that these eight players have lottery or mid-first-round potential in the future and could even sneak into the first round if they entered the draft this year. Here are a few quick hits on eight more freshmen to watch.
                            Austin Daye, F, Gonzaga
                            Scouts love his potential. His size and ability to score inside and especially from deep draw comparisons to everyone from Dirk Nowitzki to Kevin Durant. His thin frame and relative lack of minutes may keep him from being a high prospect this year unless he really explodes over the next few months. But next year? Expect him to be in the top 10 of our 2009 Big Board.
                            Blake Griffin, F, Oklahoma
                            A big, strong low-post beast who might have been a mid-first-round pick if not for his sprained knee in a game against Kansas last week. He's now expected to miss up to four weeks. That still gives him time to come back for March Madness, but he might be better off waiting a year and being a possible lottery pick in 2009. He reminds some scouts of Carlos Boozer.
                            Anthony Randolph, PF, LSU
                            A super athletic big man who reminds some scouts a little of LaMarcus Aldridge. He's equally comfortable with his back to the basket or shooting a 15-footer. He even has the ability to put the ball on the floor. He's also shown that he can be a big-time rebounder and shot-blocker. The knock on Randolph is a serious lack of strength. He gets pushed around on both ends of the floor and needs to hit the weight room. Like Daye and Griffin, if he declared, someone would take a chance on him in the first round. But if he stays, he has a chance to be a lottery pick next year.
                            Nick Calathes, G, Florida
                            Calathes is already one of the most complete players in college basketball. He can do a little of everything. He can play three positions on the floor, leads the SEC in assists, shoots the lights out with deep range and has a great basketball IQ. He's not a great athlete and needs to bulk up, but he's already got the rest of the package. Another year leading Florida could put him in the lottery. This year he'd be a likely late first-rounder.
                            Patrick Patterson, PF, Kentucky
                            He's already a load in the middle. Patterson has a NBA body and athleticism and uses it to pound the defense into submission. He lacks ideal size at the 4 and is still very raw in the post, but he has the physical tools to be a very good prospect down the road. Another year and he could be a lottery pick. This year he'd probably be a late first-rounder.
                            Kyle Singler, F, Duke
                            Singler is a sweet-shooting forward who excels at just about every aspect of the game. He's a great shooter, sure, but he does a little of everything for Duke. He needs to add strength and improve his explosiveness, but he's another great prospect down the road who's already having a big impact for the Blue Devils.
                            James Harden, G, Arizona State
                            Harden, on paper, shouldn't be on this list. He's not a great athlete, nor is he particularly gifted as a ball handler or defender. But the guy can flat out score and has a killer jumper. He finds ways to score despite lacking great quickness. He has a number of moves to create space for himself. While he's not quite the marksman that Morris Almond was at Rice, there are some solid comparisons there. He's probably the guy on this list who would struggle to find his way into the first round this year, but down the road, he could be a first-round pick.
                            Others to watch: James Anderson, G, Oklahoma State; DeJuan Blair, F, Pittsburgh; Gani Lawal, F, Georgia Tech; Johnny Flynn, PG, Syracuse; Corey Fisher, G, Villanova; Austin Freeman, G/F, Georgetown; Manny Harris, G, Michigan; Evan Turner, F, Ohio State

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                            • #89
                              Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                              Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                              Is the level of competition and the conference that he plays in is a good guage of how well he (Thabeet) plays?
                              UConn, Gtown, Syracuse, all Big East with strong bigs going against each other.

                              The good news so far is that the Pacers can make a playoff run and still get a player with at least some impact.
                              Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-23-2008, 04:00 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Official 2008 NBA Draft recruiting center...

                                Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                                UConn, Gtown, Syracuse, all Big East with strong bigs going against each other.

                                The good news so far is that the Pacers can make a playoff run and still get a player with at least some impact.
                                OR OR OR....wait for it...

                                WE CAN BOTCH THE SEASON AND MAKE A TRADE FOR A PICK AND GET *TWO* PLAYERS WITH A LOT OF IMPACT!!!! Holy crap I soiled myself
                                Roy Hibbert.... It's the POWER!!!

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